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BR: Not Just Friends #954
09/03/10 11:41 PM
09/03/10 11:41 PM
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Mark1952 Offline OP
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This book by the late Shirley Glass did much to shape my understanding of the anatomy of infidelity.

From the website:
Quote
Seven Facts You Need to Know About Infidelity

1. A happy marriage is not a vaccine against infidelity.
2. The person having the affair may not be giving enough at home rather than not getting enough.
3. It is normal to be attracted to another person, but fantasizing about what it would be like to be with that other person is a danger sign.
4. Flirting is crossing the line because it is an invitation that indicates receptivity.
5. Infidelity is not only about love or sex--it's about maintaining appropriate boundaries with others and being open and honest in your committed relationship.
6. You do not have to have sexual intercourse to be unfaithful. Passionate kissing or oral sex is a violation of your commitment to your partner.
7. Emotional affairs are characterized by secrecy, emotional intimacy, and sexual chemistry. Emotional affairs can be more threatening than brief sexual flings.

What You Need to Know About Love

* People compare and confuse the intensity of being "in love" during an affair with the secure, comfortable feeling of reality based "loving" that occurs in long term relationships.
* The feeling of being "in love" is linked to Stage One idealization, passion and infatuation.
* True love, which you grow into, is characterized by acceptance, understanding, and compassion. That is why so few people end up marrying their affair partners, and those who do have an extremely high probability of divorce.
* Once the affair is no longer the forbidden relationship that takes place in a golden bubble, the cold light of day soon bursts the romantic fantasies.

Seven Tips for Preventing Infidelity

1. Maintain appropriate walls and windows. Keep the windows open at home. Put up privacy walls with others who could threaten your marriage.
2. Recognize that work can be a danger zone. Don't lunch alone or take coffee breaks with the same person all the time. When you travel with a co-worker, meet in public rooms, not in a room with a bed.
3. Avoid emotional intimacy with attractive alternatives to your committed relationship. Resist the desire to rescue an unhappy soul who pours his or her heart out to you.
4. Protect your marriage by discussing relationship issues at home. If you do need to talk to someone else about your marriage, be sure that person is a friend of the marriage. If the friend disparages marriage, respond with something positive about your own relationship.
5. Keep old flames from re-igniting. If a former lover is coming to the class reunion, invite your partner to come along. If you value your marriage, think twice about having lunch with an old flame.
6. Don't go over the line when you're On-Line with Internet friends. Discuss your online friendships with your partner and show him/her your e-mail if he/she is interested. Invite your partner to join in your correspondence so your Internet friend won't get any wrong ideas. Don't exchange sexual fantasies online.
7. Make sure your social network is supportive of your marriage. Surround yourself with friends who are happily married and who don't believe in fooling around.

Critical Elements for Healing the Trauma of Infidelity

* Recovery requires reversing the walls and windows in the extramarital triangle to place the betrayed partner inside and the affair partner outside.
* Healing cannot begin without safety. The first step in establishing safety is to stop all contact with the affair partner.
* Rebuilding trust after deception and lying is achieved by complete honesty about the infidelity. Voluntarily sharing all unavoidable encounters with the affair partner is an essential trust-builder.
* Discussing the story of the affair is crucial for understanding the meaning of the infidelity.


Link to the Shirley Glass website

Link to the book on Amazon


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: Mark1952] #1002
09/04/10 06:20 AM
09/04/10 06:20 AM
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The Dark Side of the Moon
AntigoneRisen Offline
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Quote
The person having the affair may not be giving enough at home rather than not getting enough.


I've often seen that the person having the affair doesn't want to give what his/her partner needs, and opt for the easier road.

Shirley Glass is always a classic. Thanks for adding it.


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: AntigoneRisen] #12017
10/19/10 06:05 PM
10/19/10 06:05 PM
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Quoth The Raven Offline
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Great book. W and I read a chapter a day taking turns reading each paragraph. On those chapters intended for the betrayed spouse I read alone and same goes for those sections intended for the involved spouse, then we re-read together.

Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: Quoth The Raven] #12113
10/19/10 11:05 PM
10/19/10 11:05 PM
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Mark1952 Offline OP
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Mark1952  Offline OP
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QTR,

(Might have to modify that as your other half starts posting the same places as you)

The thing that Glass' website has to offer that I think is most valuable is the series of Quizzes that can point out personal, social and relationship vulnerabilities. So often it is said that having an affair is about poor boundaries. Her quizzes can show you exactly where boundaries need to be established to protect personal weaknesses that left unchecked can place a marriage in great danger.

The other two quizzes can help a person who might be wondering whether or not they have crossed some line to realize that the line was really behind them already and got crossed when they allowed intimacy to develop with someone who was not their spouse.

Welcome to MA, BTW.

Mark


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: Quoth The Raven] #12115
10/19/10 11:06 PM
10/19/10 11:06 PM
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The only parto f this text I don't care for is that Glass doen'st really show you how to combat infidelity directly... She shows you how it starts will genious. She then moves in to explain how to repair the damage after both spouses agree to recommit... but there's a very broad chasm betweeen Discovery and Reconcilliation that isn't dealt with hardly at all...

Overcoming Infidelity by Penny Tupy fills that void... Penny also refers to glass and is a strong advocate of her work so... I see OI as a compliment to NJF.. they should both be read together... with OI read in the voided spot of the text...


Respect Mah Authoritah!

But... I don't do cryptic...
Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: Allen_A] #12118
10/19/10 11:36 PM
10/19/10 11:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,073
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Mark1952 Offline OP
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Mark1952  Offline OP
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Allen,

I agree that Glass really showed no method of combating infidelity in any sort of direct way. I think perhaps with more time she might have filled in that void. Alas, she was gone before she had the chance.

I haven't read Penny Tupy's stuff yet and have it on my list of things to get to, along with about a thousand other things.

The book that gave me a plan to fight the affair was Harley's Surviving An Affair which I read as soon as I found a copy at the library. His idea of Plan A I think can be followed by some but too many fall into Plan Doormat out of fear of acting and expecting instant pudding type results.

This is probably a topic for another thread, which is probably already going somewhere, but I'd be interested in working with the DB gang to meld the MB and DB ideas into some form of coherent plan or plans that can be recommended to folks who need assistance. I see merits in both methods and will probably have to read Tupy's book to add that layer to my knowledge base before long as well. I'm a big fan of the research of Helen Fisher and others that have been studying the brain chemistry of infatuation, bonding and reactions to relationships.

Maybe we can start looking at a sort of combined effort one of these days that can be laid out in a step by step kind of way that might be reproducible for advising newbies who stumble in right after finding out their life is not what they believed it to be. Drop me a line and maybe we can work on a joint project for the construction zone forum.

I still have a bunch of stuff over at MB I'm trying to see if I can rewrite and bring over here. Just not sure yet where I would put most of it and since a few folks have hinted that I should write my own book, maybe that is what I'll do. I should be done by the time I can retire, which will be in about another 45 years or so the way things are going...Or three years after I'm dead, which ever comes first.

Mark


mark1952.ma@gmail.com

I Was Thinking...

The secret to having a good marriage is to understand that marriage must be total, it must be permanent, and it must be equal.-- Frank Pittman
Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: Mark1952] #12172
10/20/10 03:47 AM
10/20/10 03:47 AM
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Quoth The Raven Offline
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That is something that I had noticed as well, that this book is NOT intended for those who are currently trying to combat an A but rather more for those trying to heal from infidelity. We have not read the entire book just yet so I don't know what info the later chapters provide.

I think we can benefit from a book that helps establish boundaries.

Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: Quoth The Raven] #12495
10/21/10 05:11 AM
10/21/10 05:11 AM
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KiwiJ Offline
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Wow, Mark. I started reading Not Just Friends when we were starting recovery. I threw it across the room when Shirley Glass said that "old flames burn the brightest and are the hardest As to recover from and have the most chance of being a successful relationship", or words to that effect.

I didn't, and still don't, want to hear that. I wanted to recover my marriage and I didn't need, or want to be told that my "kind" of A was the hardest to recover from.

But what you have written from Not Just Friends, is amazing. So true and far more likely to speak to a WS than anything else.


Jen

FWW 18 month PA 2002-2003 (old HS boyfriend)
Happily Married :o)

I'm a bear of little brain and big words bother me.
Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: KiwiJ] #12530
10/21/10 10:13 AM
10/21/10 10:13 AM
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Glass was getting there. She wasn't around long enough to take advantage of some of the brain research by, among many others, Helen Fisher.

The high school sweetheart deal is simply rekindling an old PEA infatuation with the same old coyote ugly expiration, and in the case of an old flame, earlier than with a new flame. Cause of the way the mind works, the HS reunion deal remnants linger a bit and conflict with the "What have I done deal," to the end that our conscious mind resolves to "Don't do that again."



It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: Larry] #12775
10/22/10 01:14 AM
10/22/10 01:14 AM
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KiwiJ Offline
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Larry, this sounds horribly like a justification but the HS relationship was not a PEA infatuation. It was the real deal. It only expired because of a decision made by me.


Jen

FWW 18 month PA 2002-2003 (old HS boyfriend)
Happily Married :o)

I'm a bear of little brain and big words bother me.
Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: KiwiJ] #12777
10/22/10 01:27 AM
10/22/10 01:27 AM
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Larry Offline
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Hmmmmm. ..

I have a ton of respect for you Jen. And a history of reading your threads and comments. Soooo, let me just make a point or two and then I will er, shut up.

Long lasting love is based on oxytocin, the same dopamine type brain chemical that is associated with our affection for children and oft times, parents, and yea, over time, husbands or wives. There are other chemicals involved, see Mark's construction thread for a run down on them.

Helen Fisher (among others) is one of the leading researchers on all of this stuff and how she got there as an Anthropologist, I haven't figured out yet. Anyway, she has been dealing with brain scans to do some of her work. All very interesting.

BUT, it seems that there are few folks out there who are capable of enjoying (literally in most cases) a level of PEA in their brain for an astonishingly long time. This is especially true of "Young love." And why I don't recommend school reunions to happily married folks. It is only about 10% of the population or so, which means I don't mention it much.

There is one other detail I should mention. Those who are long term beneficiaries of PEA, with no coyote ugly moment, are also capable of being at some level of infatuation with more than one person - at a heavy percentage AND, they are also capable of enjoying the affection stages of oxytocin based love at the same time.

Obviously that presents an interesting set of choices for someone who might be in that category. Ya' think wink

Larry


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: Larry] #12779
10/22/10 01:34 AM
10/22/10 01:34 AM
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KiwiJ Offline
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I was just about to add that every single one of our group who married their HS sweethearts are still (to all outward appearances) happily married to them. Most of them met when they were 14 or 15. I don't know why that success rate is so high.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying about being at some level of infatuation. I love my H. That's not infatuation.





Jen

FWW 18 month PA 2002-2003 (old HS boyfriend)
Happily Married :o)

I'm a bear of little brain and big words bother me.
Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: KiwiJ] #12781
10/22/10 01:48 AM
10/22/10 01:48 AM
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Texas
Larry Offline
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Infatuation IS love, but it usually has an expiration date. Then we are supposed to gradually switch to another chemical induced type of love.

Just out of curiosity, what is the divorce rate in New Zealand?


It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

My old email address no longer works.
Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: Larry] #12786
10/22/10 02:00 AM
10/22/10 02:00 AM
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Aotearoa New Zealand
KiwiJ Offline
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lol I bet you don't really want these stats in so much detail but here they are:

The following highlights are based on marriages and civil unions (we have legal gay marriage in NZ) registered in New Zealand and divorces granted in New Zealand:

There were 21,948 marriages registered in New Zealand during the December 2008 year.
The 2008 figure is 19 percent lower than the peak of 27,199 registered marriages in 1971.
The general marriage rate was 13.7 marriages per 1,000 not-married population aged 16 years and over in 2008, compared with 15.6 per 1,000 a decade earlier in 1998.
The median ages of men and women marrying for the first time in 2008 were 29.9 and 28.2 years, respectively.
About one-third (7,136) of all marriages registered in 2008 were remarriages of one or both partners.
January, February, and March continue to be the most popular months in which people marry 43 percent of marriages were celebrated in the first three months of 2008.
There were 9,713 orders for dissolution of marriage granted in New Zealand during the December 2008 year.
The divorce rate in 2008 was 11.3 divorces per 1,000 estimated existing marriages.
Half the marriages dissolved in 2008 had lasted 13.4 years or longer, compared with the median duration of 12.6 years for marriages dissolved in 1998.
Less than half (43 percent) of all marriages dissolved in 2008 involved people with children aged under 17 years.
Analysis of divorce statistics by year of marriage shows that about one-third of New Zealanders who married in 1983 had divorced before their silver wedding anniversary (25 years).

I should add that the population of NZ is 4.5 million (to put the statistics into perspective)


Jen

FWW 18 month PA 2002-2003 (old HS boyfriend)
Happily Married :o)

I'm a bear of little brain and big words bother me.
Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: Larry] #12787
10/22/10 02:03 AM
10/22/10 02:03 AM
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
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I wish I had known about Not Just Friends 6 years ago. I did know instinctively that I could never again EVER have contact with my ex-fiance - ever. Because the areas of our M that were most empty were the areas that ex and I had the most of, so to speak.

Anytime I hear someone get all defensive about their "right" to have really close friends of the opposite sex....my radar goes up.

Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: Mark1952] #13494
10/25/10 12:07 AM
10/25/10 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark1952
...since a few folks have hinted that
I should write my own book, maybe that is what I'll do. ...
Mark


I have a huge trigger associated with NJF as that was the book we were reading together during WH's failures to detach (and I neglected to understand the chains of withdrawal for his addiction....in fact, I didn't know about either withdrawal or addiction at the time).

I am mainly posting on this thread because of the statement I've emphasized above!

I'm wondering who else besides me has suggested that you write a book....you really should! ETA :Said in my kindest 'thoughtful request' voice so that last phrase does NOT sound like a selfish demand.

Ace

Last edited by Ace; 10/25/10 05:40 AM. Reason: soften the demanding tone of my "thoughtful request"

We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: AntigoneRisen] #35875
12/15/10 06:28 AM
12/15/10 06:28 AM
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for to fade Offline
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Originally Posted By: AntigoneRisen
Quote:
The person having the affair may not be giving enough at home rather than not getting enough.


I've often seen that the person having the affair doesn't want to give what his/her partner needs, and opt for the easier road.


Agree, agree, yes as in my situation, says she makes him happy yet I find he is bored now....

And getting enough what, free labor houseworker, nanny, sex slave then we are older and totally worn out, well there is a stupid ho just waiting to say come on over

Why move us when he can move in with a ho

Why work this out when the ho doesn't talk

Why see our girls when it is easier to pretend you don't have a family

tink

Last edited by tinkerbell; 12/15/10 06:29 AM.
Re: BR: Not Just Friends [Re: Allen_A] #153614
09/03/11 03:42 PM
09/03/11 03:42 PM
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Ace Offline
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Ace  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Allen_A
The only parto f this text I don't care for is that Glass doen'st really show you how to combat infidelity directly... She shows you how it starts will genious.


I'm working on finding sources of studies to substantiate the difference between being "friendly" and being "flirty" which may be so subjective that it's impossible to research effectively. I re-skimmed Not "Just Friends" and saw only 3 references to flirting in her text (haven't delved into her resource books yet).

IMVHO, being friendly and then inadvertantly (or deliberately) crossing over into flirtatiousness is how many A's start. Did anyone find much info on this while reading Not "Just Friends" that I may have missed? (From what I saw and vaguely recall, most of Dr. Glass' examples of A's started from shared admiration.)

It's too bad Dr. Glass died so soon after it was published. I think she had a wealth of insight that may never be uncovered (possibly someone will continue work with her raw research someday).

If anyone has any insights from this book or any other, and especially research material from any substantial source, please post on the Friendly or Flirty thread in the MA Construction Zone.

Thanks,
Ace


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story

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