Marriage Advocates

WuD? - Moving on.

Posted By: whatsupdoc?

WuD? - Moving on. - 10/09/16 06:50 PM

Checking out this blog, my situation fits here better.
Crazy month starting up school - running Homecoming. We painted 360 square feet of travel posters (legit art) for Homecoming theme.

Trying to finish up house plaster/repaint, too. Going back together slowly...
Now that it is all done - have been offered a PILE to sell. Cash.

Need some sleep! WuD?
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/09/16 07:21 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Checking out this blog, my situation fits here better.
Crazy month starting up school - running Homecoming. We painted 360 square feet of travel posters (legit art) for Homecoming theme.

Trying to finish up house plaster/repaint, too. Going back together slowly...
Now that it is all done - have been offered a PILE to sell. Cash.

Need some sleep! WuD?


First, yes your story is better here now. I like to read about my peps here on the blogs instead of on the Infidelity thread. It just feels better. So congrats on that decision.

Second, you got an offer on your house just out of the blue? That is amazing! How did that come about?

What are your thoughts? You want to sell or you want to stay?
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/09/16 09:14 PM

Is this your home or your investment?

Either way what a good reflection on you.

Still you know there is more work to be done on the house, right?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/10/16 06:40 PM

Next door lady (land lord) bought and was "fixing" up the house across the street.
When I was working outside, she came over "How did you get this house?".

I bought it one day before going on market - it had 6 visits sched for first day. I met owner's girlfriend, I immediately wrote an offer that afternoon. Started measuring the next day.

Landlady offered a cash sale. She handed me her card, said she wanted first notice when I go to sell. Wanted to get inside then, I refrained (mess) She still catches up.

With that, I could probably clear $110,000 - with upgrades, now. But I have invested over $30,000 - still by any standards good return on your money.

I feel like I am going to hibernate once the painting/plaster is done for 6 - 8 months. I've lived with plastic over everything for about 2 months - and am about 85% finished with repair
(When you rewire a house, the demolition is almost as bad as the actual electricity labor.)

Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/10/16 06:48 PM

On another note, I adopted a Maine Coon black/silver Mackeral young adult male. He. is. STUNNING. Looks like a snow lynx.
check them out.

We just painted basement floor (filled and painted it with garage epoxy - :P) So, now he is down there, hiding in the (newly cleaned) joist spaces. Meowing like a heathen. LOVE IT. Coons "chirp" and "caterwaul".

Owner did not know what she was getting into... He is about 1 1/2 years old. GLAD to adopt him. Very welcome. As long as he does not eat Birdie....

This is the color. He looks just like this. Should be around 25 pounds when grown.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/10/16 08:09 PM

Beautiful cat.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/10/16 08:50 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Next door lady (land lord) bought and was "fixing" up the house across the street.
When I was working outside, she came over "How did you get this house?".

I bought it one day before going on market - it had 6 visits sched for first day. I met owner's girlfriend, I immediately wrote an offer that afternoon. Started measuring the next day.

Landlady offered a cash sale. She handed me her card, said she wanted first notice when I go to sell. Wanted to get inside then, I refrained (mess) She still catches up.

With that, I could probably clear $110,000 - with upgrades, now. But I have invested over $30,000 - still by any standards good return on your money.

I feel like I am going to hibernate once the painting/plaster is done for 6 - 8 months. I've lived with plastic over everything for about 2 months - and am about 85% finished with repair
(When you rewire a house, the demolition is almost as bad as the actual electricity labor.)


You should be proud of yourself WUD. I know I'm proud of you. thumbsup

That offer is a compliment but you still have to decide if this is your retirement home or just a home for now.

FYI: Check with those who are watching the housing market. Selling times make be different. Waiting a couple of years may have different consequences.

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/10/16 11:41 PM

After an exhausting weekend, I barely kept my eyes open during school - uuuugh.

All I could think about was going home and taking a nap. Saw how screwed up the house still is -- sooooooo, skim coating bathroom ceiling instead (try to do something everyday, no matter how big or little a task, to get it done..)

In a fit of creative, I did a knock down plaster technique (skip coat Venetian) on one accent wall in the main bathroom ( I saw a video on "This Old House.") Just - decided to go for it. In the 1920'2 they did knock down - but this is a little different.


I hope it turns out - so far, so good. the wallboard was pretty wrecked, anyway in there - instead of hours skim coating flat - I'll try this.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/11/16 03:20 AM

Your cat really does look like a Lynx!! Such a beautiful animal.

WuD, with all your hard work and great design taste, you could stay where you're at and buy another house and then fix it up and sell it. Then you wouldn't be moving all the time. And you would stay busy with all your projects but have a restful and finished place to go to each night. Or you could start your own design business on the side....
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/11/16 02:10 PM

I have become very attached to this place. I don't see me living there forever, but I definitely see me keeping it - (giving it to kid or running it as a rental.)
It is only going to increase value, as my area it only going up.

The Venetian looks good - now I have to figure how to color. BUT it is not exactly 1920's - but it is "Granny chic". It was nice to look at the wall and NOT see the old repair. the old "wobble" the old bad patching....
But Venetian's set off alarms in my head (uh, oh- trouble here.)

Since I am installing a section of 1920 wooden ladder floor to ceiling as my towel bar (space is an issue-) I certainly don't want it looking too southwest (adobe and log ladder- ish) kwim?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/14/16 12:42 PM

OMG. OMG.
Home Depot has a brand new foam sheet insulation (think pink) - but it's purple - and it is so dense that it can be carved into.
For relief sculptures, block printing. Cuts with exacto. CHEAP. I was amazed. Told a confused shop guy, told the check out clerk, told my family....

(Teachers have gotten away from block printing due to cost. REALLY a shame, these kids can not visualize 3d froms vs 2d shapes. If you do not believe me, come teach 2 point perspective to my basic classes. Enough to drive you crazy (I don't see it, I don't see it.)

You can tell I'm an art teacher at heart.....
Posted By: Oblivious2678

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/14/16 02:11 PM

I love passion. I don't care what it is the person is passionate about, but I love seeing passion ooze out of people. It's true happiness. Go with it!!
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/14/16 03:12 PM

I love the passion too......but the details are lost on me. Reading your post WUD I heard noise like on Charlie Brown. LOL.....
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/14/16 03:33 PM

lol, SW.

That happens to me sometimes too..
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/15/16 02:38 AM

You could have a lot of fun doing the block printing for cheap again. Didn't used to be that way. Cheap means students can learn from mistakes too! smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/15/16 12:42 PM

Then why read them?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/15/16 12:52 PM

The skip coat turned out beautifully. I painted with 3 shades of mushroom brown/ tan. Dry brushed tips with white.

Wow, who knew? Why is painting a bathroom more work than painting a living room?

Spending today cleaning, organizing and (hopefully) putting it all back together on the first and basement floors. What a journey. New electrical, plaster/paint. - re leveled/repainted basement floor and stain blocked walls. HUGE effort.

About 9 weeks, now, in total. Around $2,800 this project. (Under $3,200 for sure). I assume total done (with others) would be @ $18K to $20K.

Standing back and looking - I got so much done in 11 months...new plumbing/new kitchen/new 1/2 bath, stone on front, side porch, stairs, floors- major drywall, fence gate, paint deck, cedar closets, brand new/old fixtures - entire house, new/old front door, new/old storm door, porch rejuvenation. New insulation in crawls/basement -- just huge. Even though I spent mad cash -- I consider every dime, even the boo- boo's - very much worth it.

Only thing not done -- next year -- gutters at some point...

Trying to put it all back so /I can fully enjoy the holidays.... tell me to stop looking cross eyed at the lower bathroom... lol
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/15/16 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Then why read them?


Not sure if this was meant for me since I said I didn't understand that post of yours about supplies from Home Depot....

But I read your posts because you are interesting and I love your passion for your projects.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/16/16 12:09 AM

Block printing is particularly intriguing to me. I was ready to zip over to Home Depot just to go buy some of the purple foam insulation sheets. I've used the pink foam sheets before, but not the purple. I love art, but I'm not the Pro artist/designer that you are by any means. I can "carve" it to fit in between 2x4's though!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/16/16 02:30 AM

You can also get a heat knife - i bet will carve like buttah. They were making christmas tree ornaments with the kids - but I want to carve a gargoyle. You can glue many sheets together... than coat it to look like stone..

hehehehehehehehehehehe.

It's called Foamular..
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/17/16 03:54 PM

UUUgh. Cleaning up after all that plaster/paint is a pain in the arse too. Even the dog left her mark with yellow prints UNDER the plastic. HOW did she get them under the plastic???
If I never see a plaster bucket/tub again......

So, guess what I do? I volunteer to paint a former students house on Weds between morning session school and night conferences. Just three rooms, small house - empty... should take me no longer than 3 - 4 hours with help.

She has severe Cerebral Palsy, and I know she will try to do this herself...
Ever since Trump mocked the reporter for his CP condition I feel so badly for people who are afflicted in this matter. It is extremely painful and hard on the body.

Bad enough they get teased in school for this, but as an adult too?

On another note, it appears xh is trying to contact both daughters now. They really don't tell me when it happens, but since the birthday card, xh has sent "I miss you" texts to DD20.

He ignored her requests for tuition, my requests to help her with tuition -- {and she requested that he take her name off the guns that he removed from house. Both guns are warrantied in her name, I imagine registered, too.) After all he took, stole and how he treated her during divorce -- he expects that she is supposed to care if "he misses her" now???

-- typical WS/XH. Selfish, 24/7. It is all about them all of the time.

Hard to resist the urge to become involved - or make comments.

From what I understand many WS's try to make old family contacts between new girlfriends/OW's. They advise people to be extremely careful of such overtures during limerence.

I wonder if this is true with estranged children, too?

Ah, no matter.... Onward.
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/19/16 12:10 AM

He reminds me of MY dad. When my mom moved away when I graduated, and I couldn't afford to live on my own, I asked dad for help, for the first time ever. He 'couldn't.' He did offer to let me live in a room of his house. When I got married 3 years later, I asked him to help with the wedding. He 'couldn't.' He did offer me a night at a hotel as a wedding present. The room was smaller than my room at my house with my fiance. He paid $100 for it (in 1980) and made sure I knew ALL about how much he had 'spent' for me.

I never did forgive him. Still haven't, 20 years after he died.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/19/16 09:38 PM

CP:
That's the pits. Fortunately for me, my girls are old enough (were old enough at BD) to understand the problem -- XH.

They both know it is nothing that they did to warrant such crappy pappy parenting. Glad. It would be hard to not internalize this rejection as a personal slight.

Amazing how some parents are. More than one have asked me if my daughters were my xh's biological kids. That's how indifferent he treat (ed) them. Many wondered if they were step kids.

crazy - cray cray.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/21/16 01:48 PM

Oh, great. Affairs, the gift that keeps on giving.

Yesterday I was at grocery store, a woman I did not know was staring at me. I gave her a "what are you doing?" type of look, noticed her full make up, heels, nylons, younger than me (all I know about OW is that she spends a lot of money on clothes and dresses up everyday.) This woman was overdressed for shopping.

I blew this person off, I was tired and kept moving, I noticed she "dragged behind me" in the produce department. I looked straight at her, said nothing, and this lady finally uncomfortably moved on.

Forgot about it again. Until I went to another section, and she had pulled her cart over in a side isle, and she was obviously trying to get another look at me. I pretended I did not see her and continued my chores.

Around my school, and even on vacation, I have had people walk up and say "Do you teach? I think I know you." But this is 100% of the time a pleasant experience. This was not fun.

Since I never saw a picture, I don't know who this person was, but it gave me an incredibly weird feeling.
She obviously thought she recognized me. Weird.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/21/16 04:52 PM

You should have taken a pic of her.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/21/16 07:20 PM

Maybe it was someone who thought you were some famous person. smile

If it was an OW, she must be having insecurity issues.......maybe you look too cool and talented. She is jealous. LOL!!!!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 10/21/16 08:03 PM

Hoping that I must look famous. She couldn't hold a candle to me. I don't care a whit about her, or what she looks like, really. She harmed children, mine and hers - because she wanted my life.

Think about that.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/02/16 03:03 AM

Here in the "D", DTE Energy is providing $100 energy credits for wifi "smart" thermostats. They save on average $189 a year in heating costs...
( Giving as gift for disabled sistah, for x mas -- her mobile home costs thousands a year to heat/cool, I'm sure this will save her a pile. )

Home Depot has the Honeywell BIG bells and whistles edition - automatically adjusts when you leave/come home - etc.. Normally $280 for $199. This week it comes with free basement wifi water detector (which also lets you know if our pipes are near freezing temps) $80 - bonus....

So, with rebate, $360 worth of Honeywell equipment for $105 - easy as heck to install. I can check/adjust temp from anywhere with phone connection...motion activated - GPS pings when I'm 4 miles from home - warm up/cool down house.. automatically adjusts with outside humidity readings...

It also forecasts 6 hours weather - reports all this info to Santa.

That's smart x mas shopping - I bought a second one for my home.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/02/16 10:45 AM

That's a great gift, WUD! Plus it will save costs for both of you!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/02/16 12:25 PM

P.S. It is like a 15 minute install. Longer if you want to repair/paint the wall behind the old thermostat shape. Waiting for the paint to dry was 2x longer than install.

Now, onto downloading application and set up.

OMG - so easy.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/02/16 01:24 PM

What a wonderful gift! I hope it is easier to program than the one we have. I hate that mofo!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/03/16 06:09 PM

15 min install - incredibly easy (almost too easy - not enough bells and whistles - it does it for you by GPS!) Very happy with purchase.

I got my new 403B statement and house appraisal. It is time for me to do the estate planning thing, now I'm alone. I appointed my doctor daughter too be the final medical say, the younger to be the property division.

I can't predict the future, but even in case of remarriage, I would want this directive in place. I agree this is a good strategy, (there is a good article written by an attorney in estate planning) and I'm having that written in.

My friend lost her entire family (mom, 3 siblings) because mom gave friend 70% - and did not tell her other kids before her death. It has been tens of thousands in court battle, brother and sisters will all never speak to my friend again.

All could have been avoided had mom been upfront with everyone.

This same friend picked up a vagabond in Florida - who she has now living in her house. To the rest of us, it looks like he is totally sponging off her.

If they get married, he will burn through her $$$ like water -
I'd sure hate to have his hand "on the plug". I hope I keep my sense about me.

So, NOW, I'm looking at a trust. Really smart idea...
__________

I'm also fuming because I'm trying to find $$$ to cover DD20's remainder of tuition, due in 4 weeks. She is such a stellar person and student, I hate this is what it's reduced to- the worries, I mean. It should not be a scrape by life...

Sent her father the original tuition request (awhile ago, now) for giggles.....

It just fires me up that I have to cover all of this. I hope the deadbeat gives her some dough. He has contacted her more - lately - maybe the consequences are sinking into his entitled fat head.

At least the thought of contact does not register a blip on my radar anymore. I don't know that monster. Jerk. DD23 says she thinks he cut her from his will - (I don't know don't ask, she doesn't supply info. It works better that way.)

The gall of the xh - NOTHING would surprise me. His FOO family was obsessed the entire time I knew them as to who gets what, who's in, who's out. Who's cut out -- etc.
It was a crappy way to live.

I added the link to the article about setting up estate planning - for your children's well being.
I know - his life- his mess, but those are my girls.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/11/16 07:17 PM

This will be my third holiday season since bomb drop - second anniversary divorced.
The holidays were always "our time". We got married at Christmas, always held big celebrations at our home, the gathering place. It was absolutely my favorite time of the year.

My 13 ft tree, at one point had thousands of dollars worth of ornaments on it. There were 3 bulbs per branch and we rotated many every year. It had memorials of every year, every hobby, every house, kid - you name it. Quite stunning.

It was not about the "things" - or the food, or visiting. It was the sense of safety and affirmation of another year of growth. Just a sense of well being and outpouring of "family..."

The tree was given away at the "fire garage sale". I was ordered by mediator to sell all the ornaments - I split and sold his half -
{the guy had some nards, I tell you.}

I was out to dinner in a small town near mine - my friend and I decided to browse "ladies night out". It was Christmas x100 everywhere. My heart just sunk. I was hoping my reaction would be more neutral.... it was so sad and depressing, like a weight was on my chest.

I've lost hope for happiness this holiday, I just hope to get through this season without such sadness and sense of loss as last year.

I have gathered my wits about me, I understand this is going to be hard, it just feels like misery getting through - not even fun.

Just like my 50th birthday this year. Sat home alone. Numb.
No one wants to see me sad anymore. No one wants to hear it anymore. I get it. Fake it till you make it... right?

I must let go of this, I'm hoping it will be easier than I think.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/11/16 08:15 PM

hug WUD hug

Does it get easier? It gets more tolerable so in a sense, yes.

What you will develop are new memories and new focus points.

That in turn will keep you moving forward as you glide through your 50s. smile

I am on the other end of that spectrum, almost to my last 50 digit real soon. LOL!!!

FYI: It still looks the same, just with a few more creaks. Exercise helps.

Hugz,
Orchid
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/11/16 08:39 PM

Ideas to help get through the holidays. Stay busy. Not alone in your house doing repairs and improvements. Out with people.

Join a caroling group. Even if you can't sing.
Volunteer. Every meal you serve is a blessing multiplied.
Schedule a blood donation. Few people donate during the holidays and supplies tend to run low.
Go to Dollar Tree and buy a bag full of silly toys. Then go to the nearest Ronald McDonald house and play Mrs. Santa to the siblings of sick kids. Their parents will thank you.

The good thing about the above is that you go out with people who don't know you. Who don't know about the ex. They won't ask how you are getting on, because they don't know there is anything you are moving past. When they ask how you are doing you can say fine and it won't feel so much like lying. Because you are glad to be out caroling or serving meals or giving blood.

You are much better at this than I am so I know you will come up with another 100 ideas that are even better than mine.

Whatever you do, do not sit home alone. That is what I do when Mrs. H travels and it is darn depressing.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/12/16 02:48 PM

Thank you for the ideas and advice.
Home is where I feel most comfortable now. This place feels like home, and I am very proud to be here. I'm more of a home fry than normal.

I am assuming that this will change too. My depression translates into physical tiredness.. I find "going with it" is better for me than fighting it. So, for now, I'll act "steady as she goes." There are better things for me on the horizon, I just don't see them yet.

I'm hoping that at the appropriate time I will bounce back better.

Exercise should be done more. As well as outside the home activities.

Many artists are introverts...
Today visiting DD23 for lunch about an hour away. Raking leaves and building a hall tree for entryway. Will see how it goes.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/15/16 01:53 PM

Great.
The poopy Diesel car I have has yet another recall, but at least this time I don't have to pay for the sensor. (They tried to nail me for last summer.)

So, next week I get a loaner (They are saying it takes about a week in the shop (with backups) to get sensor ordered in and replaced. They are giving me a free rental.
Thinking about going to New York for the weekend, then.

I might take my sister, but she has many physical disabilities that prevent her from moving around, but she loves shopping and the New York pre Christmas is wonderful.

I just don't know if I want to deal with her issues or go it alone. I love museums, Central Park, etc.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/27/16 11:52 AM

Hope everyone had a great holiday!

Just had a tiny group, only 7 - but all 12 recipes turned out wonderfully. Newsflash -After years of trials I have concluded the Riesling brines better than Chardonnay.
Trip to Eastern Market for fresh herbs and cheeses -quick peek at the street art..
Going to old stomping grounds making new memories is tough, but getting easier.

Black Friday - no shopping. Except I got ten "cold weather' sueded/wool gloves
to send out West for the Pipeline camp. I don't think this is going to end well, I wish something could be resolved. anyhow... Go tribe.

Still missing my old family unit. I guess that's normal. I've always been this way though. Too romantically loyal. To relationships and causes and even objects < that sounds weird, but, for example, when I heard during the bankruptcy they were trying to sell the artwork at the DIA - I actually cried. Weird.

So instead of focusing on xh, I'm trying to focus on my reactions to understand (or get me through) rough patches.

Idea for article: positive, rather neutral ways to anticipate and get through things like holidays, anniversaries or trigger dates. You know they are coming up - how can you help yourself...Those days were the absolute worst - and I remember the "just snap out of it" advice made me feel worse...idk.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/27/16 12:30 PM

Healing takes time. Hugs, WuD. You have a tender heart. I'm sure the gloves will be put to good use.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/29/16 12:53 AM

Worst day. First hour student cuts her hand with exacto knife ONE inch deep, but not long - (Don't carve toward your hand!!!) . Blood spurting, her getting dizzy, me obtaining cutting tool, talking/calming down mom - to office to provide first aid..

SECOND hour - before clean up another student walks into hanging tv - hits so hard he almost falls to ground, cuts scalp. z%&%$^$^%$^%$^!!!!!.

3rd hour - loud, racist, rude behavior from "jock" boys - {thanks! "Alt. right" for making racism patriotic!} Called more parents - ggggrrrrrrrrr. More bad behavior this time directed at young girl.....

4th hour - cleaned up room - what a disaster!

I must have snacked 6 times today - not enough diet coke in the world. - (eating stress?) what the heck is wrong with people??????
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/29/16 02:59 AM

Trump?

Seriously, though, you're going through some of my past history. My mom moved away when I graduated high school, just took some stuff and disappeared. Left everything in the house, which she had sold, I had to find my own place. Didn't realize until the next year that she had left all our Christmas stuff in the house. Which of course the new owner through away. Wasn't rich stuff like you had, but it was every handmade ornament my brother and I had made through the years - all our memories, down the drain, cos my mom couldn't get away from us fast enough.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/29/16 11:28 AM

That's terrible!
At least I got to hand split the ornaments. I put all the kiddos stuff in my pile. smile

Day of garage sale - a "friend" bought my pile - smile His? All went for $20.
(Didn't say how much I had to sell it for.) ps - how dare mediator deem all christmas had to be sold? Who did he think he was? How did I let that one slip?)

So, It is what it is.
Same with photos, I properly stored and put in a huge heavy duty roller case - re read the agreement - and gave to my daughters..

With glee we loaded up pickups for $25 - from the barn (we had to vacate in 8 days.)
It was sad, but liberating - but had to be done so quickly I did not have time to think.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 11/29/16 06:06 PM

Well, today only one flaming fire ball across the art room and one immature racist interaction (SERIOUSLY what has gotten in to people?)

Daughter, 20 drops a bomb. Some 34 year old wants to start dating her.
She just put to the curb a 23 year old who, although a nice guy, very self absorbed and BARELY threw her crumbs. Her first boyfriend, before that, was sort of Asperger's. I did not like the crumbs he tossed, either, although you can not blame a teenager much for empathy or lack thereof..

(side note: I was really good at not commenting nor advising - yeah, mom.)

There is no other way to say it - the gals "picker" is broke.

I don't care WHAT his "cred" is, he's 14+ years older! Besides the obvious - what would he find attractive in a 20 year old? (a 20 year old, mind you, who is kind of immature about certain things? In many ways, more like a high schooler.)

She's in need of focusing on herself, her school, her choices and growing the heck up.
He had his own college age choices/opportunities- over a decade ago.

I hear the chorus of "it's her life!!!" starting now.

Does not help I just had a beer with a gal I paint with. She was cheated on by her 18 year older husband. He left her for a younger woman.... five years later she still has not recovered...

I am just so angry I can't say a word. I told my daughter I'm not thrilled about this. Then let it alone.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/09/16 07:56 PM

Feel like I'm in an echo chamber here, but I will post an update.

Have slowly crawled back into more charity actions this season. Sent heavy duty gloves to Pipeline standoff protesters and then put together a holiday package for a former student alone with her middle school aged son. I passed the info on to the staff, and I hope they bring in items for her.

A few teachers pitched in for gifts and now the Goodfellows are going to be delivering food (enough for the week) on the 18th.
So, yeah.

Getting my house a little bit better organized, still do not feel like celebrating. Daughters are very upset that I have not bounced back (emotionally) - they admire what I have done greatly, they wish I would just move on.
I understand they are not used to seeing me sad/struggling. Oh well. Sometimes I think THEY think they are the "parents" and want to lecture me....

Finishing up some crown molding in the main bath. Since the wall is not level nor straight (thank you old owner) I'm cheating with putting three walls of regular 3" crown, and one wall with vintage 8" wood molding. I believe I have seen this done before, and I found a reasonable molding. I will have to square off the other trim (I had tried all crown, and it was so crooked the molding just split-) but I think it will look good and - as good as the "renovation" can that was done about 5 years ago...

Hope everyone is doing well.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/09/16 08:07 PM

WUD

I know what you mean about not "feeling" the spirit. I don't either to be honest. It's just not there.

I know I'm not buying gifts for my husband, because he's broken me of it. I know it isn't appreciated there, so I can't. And that makes the whole thing so hard. I've redirected my gift giving energies, but it doesn't feel the "same"

I'm without my family of origin, I've cut them ALL off, even my brother, who I dearly loved. I came to realize NONE of them care about me at all, not really.

So I'm sort of mourning all of it. The boys are still the boys, and that's great, but I just can't catch a whiff of joy. I just can't. <shrug>

I'm going through the motions as best I can. Hoping I'm fooling enough folks to get by basically.

Just going to the next thing on the list. Hoping to find meaning in something.

Your molding solution sounds reasonable. I hope it turns out looking passable, or better! Given your track record, I'm betting it will.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/10/16 01:35 AM

WUD I don't celebrate Christmas so I am sorry I can't relate, but I do hope you will begin to find some joy.

Do you have updates on your blog? I am so jealous of your skill and energy on your house project.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/10/16 03:16 AM

I really need to update blog.
Much cussing and swearing later, Frankenstein trim looks likes a keeper.

The rewire really took 8 weeks out of my life. Think everything piled up in center of room/plastic over everything. old plaster/insulation/dirt everywhere! Try living like that 2 months..probably the biggest mess/independent project I've ever taken on. (But I was really glad when the electrician gave it the thumbs up.)
Not exactly a Kodak moment...

Now that patchwork is done, things are shaping up -time to take most excellent photos. Then kick back and relax (I can hear your guffawing from here.) Really, added a cupboard above washing machine - small room crown-- just touch up jobs.
Planning another student trip to France Italy for 2018. Trying to get back into the swing of promotions, again...
Posted By: believer

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/10/16 03:37 AM

Do you think you might be depressed, WUD?
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/10/16 08:01 AM

If she is, she is one of the most productive persons I've known. wink
Posted By: MaidUpName

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/10/16 09:48 AM

Hey WUD

It always astonishes me how your and my moods seem to cycle in parallel - I suppose it can be explained by how similar our time lines are but it's still interesting.

I'm trying to feel the feels but it's a struggle. Work Christmas night out was last night and I just couldn't bring myself to go - splashed out with some of the overtime I earned last week and bought fab. steaks for me and the boys and we had steak and fries and all the trimmings in front of the TV. They thought it was brilliant, I was just thankful that they haven't picked up on how hard I'm struggling to find some Christmas spirit (that doesn't come out of a bottle smile )

The boys scout group were doing a shoe box appeal for the homeless last week. We searched through our winter stuff and found hats and scarfs etc. and then I brought them up to a low cost store and we got socks, small towels, toothbrushes, deodorant and some goodies. In total I spent about Ä30 and DS14 commented that compared to what we'll spend on food and gifts (which isn't a lot!) it costs very little to give someone basic necessities.

One of the mother and child shelters has put out an appeal for baby essentials and Ds10 heard it on the radio and has asked if instead of me giving him pocket money for his chores this weekend can we go and buy some baby food and diapers etc. and drop them over.

I'm so proud of them, they've gone from having plenty to having very little relitavely speaking and yet can still recognize how much worse off others are.

Keep moving forwards WUD, you are one of the kindest, most capable strongest people I've "met". We're both in a better place than we were last year and not as good as we'll be in next year - just keep swimming.

MUN
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/10/16 11:36 PM

This year has been a tough one for too many people. I don't have any great solutions for you. But maybe it is time to slow down and put house projects on hold so you can personally and emotionally recharge. You are working yourself too the bone (despite your entertaining students)!

Hugs for you, WuD. You are appreciated.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/11/16 09:35 AM

Thank you for the replies. Yes, I'm depressed, but overall I am in a better place than last Christmas. X Anniversary coming up so with all that I have to call it progress, - right?

Finished cutting and nailing the trim, then ran out to meet a new friend for dinner in my town. I "met" her online, she is a fellow B.S. too. Nice to meet someone new, my other local friends are snow birds in Florida for the winter. We seem to have a bit in common. Wound up showing her the town and my house.

She was impressed, slightly amazed - probably thinks I'm crazy to boot.. I guess, looking around, the renovation was a huge HUGE effort. She has her old huge house from her divorce, she has no idea what she is going to do with it when her two kids graduate in a few years. Her x hid millions,tho. Her later is writing up a paper the forensic accounting of her case, so unusual. - she had a miserable divorce too, it seems. >sigh. Shallow men+money+power = entitlement...

MUN, so wonderful your boys facilitated the charity collections and donations. That type of empathy is something I believe is taught by example. Mark just wrote a post talking about trust and the brain chemistry behind charitable acts.


Usually boys are so preoccupied with self interests....great to see them having empathy for others.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/11/16 10:02 AM

Trying not to fume over politics. This DeVos, "Trixie", who Trump picked for Secretary of Education is from Michigan. Trixie (slang here for white, spoiled girl) DOES NOT believe in science. Does. not. have. any. education. experience.
Does. not. believe. in. science. Other industrialized nations are kicking our butts in education Math/Science, we put a zealot in charge of it.

She spearheaded MI charter school effort - really hurt teachers unions/ public schools - for for profit, California based charters, that means out tax money leaves the state. grrrrrrrrrr.
Thanks to her efforts they keep re licensing failing charters here in South East MI -( I admit, some private schools do well, it just becomes segregation at that point.) ...while these c.s. kids get further and further behind...nobody cares...
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/11/16 08:29 PM

We have the same problem in Texas. It's so irritating. And we have these uber conservative Christians who run the board that selects textbooks, and we're always having to fight them on the books they pick, like books that say climate change is only a theory or that man isn't really affecting it, things like that.

My H keeps saying Trump won't stay alive long enough to make any real changes; but honestly, I'm more worried about what Pence would do.
Posted By: josie

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/11/16 11:11 PM

Originally Posted By: catperson
We have the same problem in Texas. It's so irritating. And we have these uber conservative Christians who run the board that selects textbooks, and we're always having to fight them on the books they pick, like books that say climate change is only a theory or that man isn't really affecting it, things like that.

My H keeps saying Trump won't stay alive long enough to make any real changes; but honestly, I'm more worried about what Pence would do.


If you haven't seen it already, there is a fascinating, award-winning documentary about the textbook selection and revision process in Texas. It's called The Revisionaries. It is more hair-raising than any horror movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0r-x3UTwPs
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/12/16 12:16 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Trying not to fume over politics. This DeVos, "Trixie", who Trump picked for Secretary of Education is from Michigan. Trixie (slang here for white, spoiled girl) DOES NOT believe in science. Does. not. have. any. education. experience.
Does. not. believe. in. science. Other industrialized nations are kicking our butts in education Math/Science, we put a zealot in charge of it.

She spearheaded MI charter school effort - really hurt teachers unions/ public schools - for for profit, California based charters, that means out tax money leaves the state. grrrrrrrrrr.
Thanks to her efforts they keep re licensing failing charters here in South East MI -( I admit, some private schools do well, it just becomes segregation at that point.) ...while these c.s. kids get further and further behind...nobody cares...



My ds's charter school got a D- this year. Which doesn't surprise me. It is pretty complicated.

I wonder if you are against charter schools period since they take funding from public schools....

Are you against homeschooling?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/12/16 03:28 PM

I am against education for industry profit.
Tax dollars need to stay in community...
Average charter school employee lasts 24 months (They are "certified" teachers, too! Six week certifications - signed by Ronald McDonald.) Teaching is a skill honed by years of education and experience. It takes $$$$ (tuition) and time. It is not a $15/hr job.

Schools build communities, encourage diversities, teach social skills - ( Don't like Mr. Smith, (who is an excellent teacher, but tough) your Math teacher? Can't "get along" with him? Want to move classes? Go online? Want to complain behind his back to everyone about it? Guess what? -- WELCOME TO THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.
You will always have a boss, a client, a co worker - family and friends - that you find difficult -- but you have to learn how to be successful with. That's PART of a big public school. I teach way more social interaction, direction following, accountability than Art, let me say.

Parents who want to push certain religious or curriculum beliefs in child's education.

Some pro charter parents are:
Entitled parents who want their perfect child to be educated away from all those "r*!ard*d" kids in public schools. *I have heard from parents mouths.

We have two religious schools that feed into our high school. I know that well established curriculums and truly dedicated staff plus family support can do great things for students. These are not set up in old Halloween USA stores.

Communities are built and strengthened by public schools with local governance. Tax dollars build buildings, keep locals employed and raise community's children...

A charter in an abandoned Target store ( that pays the admin $150,000 a year and teachers $28,000 ) is NOT going to do the same.
(Online high school? Sure. We have online classes in our school, too. Just ask all the mom's who call the school for help logging in to take the test for their kid.)
If a student has years of truancy, discipline problems, a bully - or target - parent has absolutely ZERO control over said kid..... HOW is doing school at home going to work?
It's HARD to work from home..

Maybe I'm jaded.
In 30 years, 3 times I reported abuse to CPS? All 3 students were pulled from public school for "homeschooling". Shocker. Should have been illegal to do that.
You broke your small 12 year olds wrist? No. You don't get to keep her home for 6 years..

Do you have any idea HOW many learning disabled kids have parents who REFUSE to believe in Autism? Depression? Dyslexia? Anti medication? Anti- Science?
There is little to no oversight in charter (and in many cases online or home schooling.) Once

OF COURSE, there are parents who can - and do - excellent home education.
BUT read the news today....
LOOK at all the people (wealthy, famous or otherwise powerful) who don't believe in climate change, vaccinations, think certain humans are sub-human (DNA wise) -
think Dunning-Kruger effect - should teach kids?

"As WuD? metaphorically swings/throws punches into air..."Why, let me at 'em... let me at 'em!"
>swing, swing...hop, hop - jab.<
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/12/16 06:31 PM

You are a terrific person for caring so deeply about other people's children.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/12/16 08:02 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
I am against education for industry profit.
Tax dollars need to stay in community...
Average charter school employee lasts 24 months (They are "certified" teachers, too! Six week certifications - signed by Ronald McDonald.) Teaching is a skill honed by years of education and experience. It takes $$$$ (tuition) and time. It is not a $15/hr job.

Schools build communities, encourage diversities, teach social skills - ( Don't like Mr. Smith, (who is an excellent teacher, but tough) your Math teacher? Can't "get along" with him? Want to move classes? Go online? Want to complain behind his back to everyone about it? Guess what? -- WELCOME TO THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.
You will always have a boss, a client, a co worker - family and friends - that you find difficult -- but you have to learn how to be successful with. That's PART of a big public school. I teach way more social interaction, direction following, accountability than Art, let me say.

Parents who want to push certain religious or curriculum beliefs in child's education.

Some pro charter parents are:
Entitled parents who want their perfect child to be educated away from all those "r*!ard*d" kids in public schools. *I have heard from parents mouths.

We have two religious schools that feed into our high school. I know that well established curriculums and truly dedicated staff plus family support can do great things for students. These are not set up in old Halloween USA stores.

Communities are built and strengthened by public schools with local governance. Tax dollars build buildings, keep locals employed and raise community's children...

A charter in an abandoned Target store ( that pays the admin $150,000 a year and teachers $28,000 ) is NOT going to do the same.
(Online high school? Sure. We have online classes in our school, too. Just ask all the mom's who call the school for help logging in to take the test for their kid.)
If a student has years of truancy, discipline problems, a bully - or target - parent has absolutely ZERO control over said kid..... HOW is doing school at home going to work?
It's HARD to work from home..

Maybe I'm jaded.
In 30 years, 3 times I reported abuse to CPS? All 3 students were pulled from public school for "homeschooling". Shocker. Should have been illegal to do that.
You broke your small 12 year olds wrist? No. You don't get to keep her home for 6 years..

Do you have any idea HOW many learning disabled kids have parents who REFUSE to believe in Autism? Depression? Dyslexia? Anti medication? Anti- Science?
There is little to no oversight in charter (and in many cases online or home schooling.) Once

OF COURSE, there are parents who can - and do - excellent home education.
BUT read the news today....
LOOK at all the people (wealthy, famous or otherwise powerful) who don't believe in climate change, vaccinations, think certain humans are sub-human (DNA wise) -
think Dunning-Kruger effect - should teach kids?

"As WuD? metaphorically swings into air..."Why, let me at 'em... let me at 'em!"


Respectfully, I think you are jaded. The nature of your job almost guarantees you will see all the worst cases of attempted homeschooling. Two ways....one their parents don't really teach them anything and eventually they end up in public school grossly unprepared and several grades behind. Two, problem kids leave school and attempt on line or homeschool and that is a difficult thing. Problem kids have problems. So it is doubtful they are going to leave public school and excel on their own in an on line high school....so again they end up as a total failure.

You don't see the ones like my son. I have taught him from the day he was born. I taught him every subject all the way up to 7th grade and 8th grade when he became gradually independent in all his studies. He has tested out as advanced on almost every single standardized test he has taken since he was in 1st grade. And he is now in Vo-tech half days, working a couple hours a day, and doing 3 high school courses which are rigorous. They aren't fluffy classes. He has worked a year ahead in math and science since 2nd grade.

And he is a good kid. He is spiritual...involved heavily in volunteer work and has a lot of friends.

He would never cross your path though. And I know many many many kids just like him. I've been on a large classical homeschool board for about 12 years and there are so many stories just like my son. Success stories. Most on the board aren't using virtual charters though...I am sort of odd man out on that one because of my XH wanting it so I agreed. Most people on the board put together their own resources and do their own thing....and I've seen many go on to college and get jobs in the 12 years I've been there.

As far as wanting tax dollars to stay in the community....well that would be nice. But I am not going to sacrifice my son's education for that goal. There is absolutely no way I would enroll my son in this school district where I live.

The teachers my son has had over the years in the Virtual Charter (K12 is the curriculum....not sure if you know it but it is well regarded) have all been real teachers. They won't even take a teacher unless they have had a year or more of brick and mortar teaching experience.

I am not sure how a state charter could hire teachers that only have six week certifications....that doesn't sound legal...unless it is people who have 4 year degrees who get emergency licensing...that is happening all over OK in B&M because there is a teacher shortage.

Anyway, I hope you can see not all homeschoolers are the same and not all charter schools are the same.
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/12/16 08:14 PM

OMFG WuD about your daughter and the 34 year old! How predictable! Of course the girl has Daddy issues. I was 20 and my xH was 36 when we got together, and nothing my Mom did or said - including not talking to me for a year - dissuaded me from wanting to be with him. I loved that he was so mature, and ready to start a family, unlike the guys my age I dated, and was much better at making a woman feel special. But over our time together I grew up and didn't want to just take his word for everything any more, I wanted my opinions and decisions to be respected, too.

I was so unhappy in my marriage that I found MB and then came to MA too. The new skills I learned about, like setting boundaries and acting as an equal, helped for a while, and then just made the fighting we had worse, not better. I wish there was something I could say to your daughter. Maybe she'll learn from your example that you don't NEED a man.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/12/16 09:24 PM

Your right. Many kids will not cross paths with me. Nor Art, Music - Band, Team Sports, Debate Club, Drama Club - Student Gov, Gay/Straight Alliance.

They also will not meet or have relationships with some of the worst, and/or best brilliant minds in our community. Our Physics lady is next to an idiot savant, but what an opportunity for people to be able to learn from her! Even if they get a D.

SW: I never said all homeschool/private/online are bad. In fact, some of our school population has always been from the Lutheran school or St. Stevens kids... If it was successful for you - that is great.

Today in the Freep...
http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/colum...-data/95207844/

They keep snowing the data - they keep re licensing woefully poor charters.. No one cares..

They have willingly dismantled traditional education for profit. They are in your face, half truth, fingers crossed behind their backs pillage monkeys.

WHO is going to be accountable (in places like Detroit) when these kids were "saved" from public schools -- to be thrown to the dogs?
This is scary stuff....
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/12/16 09:38 PM

NED: Oh, don't I know.....
As I said, then let it drop, "I am the mother. I don't HAVE to like it, I don't have to approve. I don't approve."
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/12/16 11:31 PM

WuD: I don't think public schools in the US will ever succeed at solving all the problems that kids bring to school. Not the schools' fault. The external problems are huge and schools do not have enough resources to address them on top of providing education.

That said, I do think something professional educators have a say in could help. Civics education. The value of community. The reason why every parent should think hard about sending their non-problem kid to public school even if the parents have the capacity and resources to homeschool their kid or send them to private school. Precisely because public schools build community and in my view we are short on communal values in the US today.

I am sure SmilingWife does a good job at instilling community values. I am not confident that every child receives that message.

Much civics education has been cut in favor of more practical, work-related skills. Why study the Electoral College? Why study the arguments over various provisions of the Constitution? How will that ever be relevant after graduation? Or because it was seen as somehow condescending to think that we in the US had built this great system that should be exalted. Patriotism was too often seen as a vice rather than a virtue. But if we do not teach how the government and politics works in this country, or the values that we are trying to build as a community, we can't expect people to make personal sacrifices in favor of community values.

Sometimes we stop talking about values because it immediately devolves into a discussion of abortion or gun ownership, and the conversation stops because people are polarized on those issues. But I am more concerned with First Amendment values like freedom of expression and freedom of the press and freedom to assemble, and Thirteenth, Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendment values like due process of law and the right to vote. If we don't tell people what rights they have, how to exercise them, and how to protect them, how can we complain when the government infringes on our rights? If we don't tell people to be proud of these rights, and our system of government, how can we expect them to take voting seriously?

I think public school has a unique role to play in instilling civic values. Which will help heal the divide so that people feel good about sending their kid to public school despite the fact that many of the problems that kids have when they enter the school building cannot be resolved by what happens inside the school building. That doesn't mean that nothing good happens inside the school.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 01:58 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Your right. Many kids will not cross paths with me. Nor Art, Music - Band, Team Sports, Debate Club, Drama Club - Student Gov, Gay/Straight Alliance.

They also will not meet or have relationships with some of the worst, and/or best brilliant minds in our community. Our Physics lady is next to an idiot savant, but what an opportunity for people to be able to learn from her! Even if they get a D.

SW: I never said all homeschool/private/online are bad. In fact, some of our school population has always been from the Lutheran school or St. Stevens kids... If it was successful for you - that is great.

Today in the Freep...
http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/colum...-data/95207844/

They keep snowing the data - they keep re licensing woefully poor charters.. No one cares..

They have willingly dismantled traditional education for profit. They are in your face, half truth, fingers crossed behind their backs pillage monkeys.

WHO is going to be accountable (in places like Detroit) when these kids were "saved" from public schools -- to be thrown to the dogs?
This is scary stuff....


WUD, public schools don't have a monopoly on great minds. My son is exposed to some great opportunities and some great minds. He plays the piano and Dss plays the guitar....along with their friends they do a lot of fun things together.

I know there are great teachers and I know you are one of them. My mom was too. But the public school model is broken IMO. Beyond repair IMO.

We in the homeschool community hear Hold's argument all the time....that we have an obligation to put our smart and well adjusted kids in the public schools so the schools will do better. No. My obligation is to my son and to do the best I can by him. And doing the best I can by him should/has turned him into a good citizen of the community he lives in.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 02:11 AM

I can't speak to MI spending so much money on charters and not holding them accountable. That is crazy.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 02:31 AM

One last thought - then I'll quit. Free market rules. Why would any one with a 4, 6 or, like me, 8 years of degrees want to work in a charter school for $27K - $33K?
High in demand minds demand more stable, better salaried jobs.

If you are at a religious school and are doing it out of dedication to service (like many parochial teachers I've met)- bless your soul. I understand.
Unfortunately (maybe not in your area of the world) many

Charter teachers - some have no education classes, (no regulations) or let their teaching license relapse, or worse, had it revoked by the state. My college room mate got rejected before graduation for screaming/flipping out at her student teaching charges... teaching in Georgia... has for years, I hope she resolved her anger issues...

My sisters next door neighbor got a new job as "certified teacher" at a charter... her experience? 10 years check out girl at WalMart (that is how I know about the 6 week certification program.) She's teaching Math....as a "certified teacher".

Its my profession and I will defend it. 30 years, here.... I didn't just dream up my current beliefs or position on this...
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 02:52 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
One last thought - then I'll quit. Free market rules. Why would any one with a 4, 6 or, like me, 8 years of degrees want to work in a charter school for $27K - $33K?
High in demand minds demand more stable, better salaried jobs.

If you are at a religious school and are doing it out of dedication to service (like many parochial teachers I've met)- bless your soul. I understand.
Unfortunately (maybe not in your area of the world) many

Charter teachers - some have no education classes, (no regulations) or let their teaching license relapse, or worse, had it revoked by the state. My college room mate got rejected before graduation for screaming/flipping out at her student teaching charges... teaching in Georgia... has for years, I hope she resolved her anger issues...

My sisters next door neighbor got a new job as "certified teacher" at a charter... her experience? 10 years check out girl at WalMart (that is how I know about the 6 week certification program.) She's teaching Math....as a "certified teacher".

Its my profession and I will defend it. 30 years, here.... I didn't just dream up my current beliefs or position on this...



I am not sure I understand your position. Sounds like MI has a mess on their hands with the charter schools. OK doesn't have that problem but the schools are still in terrible shape....teachers fleeing, students bailing to homeschool or private school. So what do you think the answer is?
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 02:58 AM

I can't find anything that says it would be legal for someone to teach with only a 6 week certificate.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 04:20 AM

Teachers at charter schools in my state are required to have a degree in Education just like every public school teacher. All teachers have mandatory training hours yearly also to keep their licenses, regardless of whether they work in a public school or a charter school.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 04:39 AM

They can and do here. In fact, the advertise "Want to be a teacher? When can you start. No experience necessary."
They like state licensed people, but you only need a "certificate or permit" - to do it. They have special rules for "new curriculum" that allows work related experience teach.

Public schools have one standard, private another...

No one defines "permit":
".... Requirements for private and charter schools in Detroit may vary on an individual basis.."

"Private and charter schools may have different hiring requirements than Detroit Public Schools and are not required by the state to hire certified teachers. In some cases, non-public schools will hire well-qualified applicants for teaching positions who have a the required education but not Michigan teacher certification."

http://www.teachercertificationdegrees.com/become/detroit/

and in some cases, not the education nor the certification...

aaaaand teacher Corps:

Aspiring teachers, ***such as professionals and recent college graduates, get licensed through TNTP Teaching Fellows, one of the nationís most rigorous training programs and receive ongoing support through the first year.
*** define "professionals."
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 04:46 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
They can and do here. In fact, the advertise "Want to be a teacher? When can you start. No experience necessary."
They like state licensed people, but you only need a "certificate or permit" - to do it. They have special rules for "new curriculum" that allows work related experience teach.

Public schools have one standard, private another...

No one defines "permit":
".... Requirements for private and charter schools in Detroit may vary on an individual basis.."

"Private and charter schools may have different hiring requirements than Detroit Public Schools and are not required by the state to hire certified teachers. In some cases, non-public schools will hire well-qualified applicants for teaching positions who have a the required education but not Michigan teacher certification."

http://www.teachercertificationdegrees.com/become/detroit/


Interesting. I just this minute read along thread on the homeschool board about MI's deplorable education system. Charter schools weren't the topic...but rather how little oversight there is for homeschoolers and that there is a large segment of families who really just aren't teaching their kids anything.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 04:53 AM

I admire homeschool or private school educators who are putting in the hours...

SOME do not. Plus - the parents who take kid from public school system because they believe "the identified" disability is not mental or physical or emotional, but demonic possession...

P.S. We have an in-house room /computer lab and staff for online classes -- the young people STILL fail to complete coursework -- with staff there.

aaaaarrrrrgh. enough about this. Giving me road rage..
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 06:11 AM

Wow, deplorable IS the word. That is an unfortunate sitch to say the least. Breaks my heart to hear about the apathy from parents and students. That's not something that any teacher can fix easily.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 12:20 PM

Oddly the oversight seems high but isn't really. The only legal reason for homeschooling is for religious reasons. That alone can often bring out the nuts.....but accorsing to my homeschool friend who lives there a lot of good and bad homeschoolers aren't using the religious exemption. It no one checks.

Also Detroit schools require substitutes to have bachelors. Weird contrast to teachers in charter schools not being required to have degrees or teaching certificates at all.

Our schools here ( rural district I live in) don't require any degree at all.

I think the education system country wide has big and complicated problems. I looked at my sons charter school's'grade' last night.....it is a D. The principle said no one has any co fidence in the validity of this rating and this is likely to be the last year they use this system......when I looked at the details it appears the graduation rate is 40%. And the kids are failing math and science,.,...but here is the thing.....this is the high school grade and these high school kds who sign op for tis free program are often left home alone and parents aren't involved and even when parents are home it is very difficult to force a teen to do school work....

I spend a lot of time staying on top of my son,,,,,looking at his work and helping him stay organized. If left to himself he probably would be in big trouble. So I am. It surprised a lot of kids are dropping out. It is the last stop before they give up. My son isn't a typical student in that regard.

His teachers are top notch and very involved. But if kids do t take advantage of what is offered there is only so much a teacher can do. That is similar to public school......and a lot of troubled teens drop out of public school.
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 12:55 PM

WuD what bothers me the most is the discrepancy in school. DD is in an A school but doesn't like the kids, so since we're moving anyway I'm looking in the other neighborhoods with A high schools... for a 3 bedroom home it's a 70k premium to be in the "right" school district. But don't all our taxes go to the same county? Why only the areas with highest taxes get good schools? Here the private schools offer grants to kids who perform like my daughter on exams but what about all the kids who actually need extra help. My BF school he has 38 kids per class to learn Spanish, and these are kids with limited parent involvement. It is amazing they offer breakfast lunch and dinner, but these kids need a path out too and that comes with smaller class sizes.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 02:16 PM

I find this all fascinating. And I'd never considered ANY of it before.

Oldest kid was diagnosed ADHD when we lived up in the Chicago burbs. A year or so later, after we'd been dosing him with the drugs, etc, he was STILL struggling, and then got into a bad fight with some other kids. Husband, (who is a certified teacher, with a Master's Degree in Ed) decided to homeschool him, and pulled him out. Daryl was already on disability, so it just made sense, and since he had though credentials, we had no problem getting the approval.

After 3/4 of a school year at home with his dad? Kid straightened right out, AND we got him off the drugs, which were HORRIBLE for him (he was losing weight, and he was always a skinny kid, and he was a total zombie) Maybe he just needed a year to mature, maybe he was motivated because he wanted to be at school with his friends, maybe he learned how to "manage" himself because his dad leaned on him harder than school would. Idk.

He didn't fall behind curriculum wise, although Daryl was NOT horribly dedicated to traditional curriculum sometimes. I think this was maybe 5th grade?

Anyway, we never regretted doing it, and the kid is in college (AGAIN, after getting one bachelor's degree from the University of Illinois, now he's going to Nursing school.)

My brother is another case where private school got the job done when public school didn't. I had gone straight through public school all my life, and done okay. But when my brother, who had a speech problem due to being adopted with a cleft lip and a cleft palate, went to kindergarten, there was trouble. My mom made sure she was the class aide, and was in the classroom all the time. She saw the teacher avoided my brother, didn't call on him, didn't work with him. She just didn't want to be "bothered" trying to communicate with him. It was too much trouble.

So my mom pulled him out, and put him in our local Catholic school, which had smaller class size. He attended there until high school. And it was a good experience for him. They had a much less "rough and tumble" environment, where there was zero tolerance for bullying, etc. He had more personal attention from teachers when he struggled. He got what he needed. He was able to flourish. And when high school came, he was ready and able to integrate and pass.

So homeschool and private school both have served my family well. I never knew about these dark sides. I'm aghast, really.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 02:23 PM

One other advantage that private schools have is they do not have to continue to tolerate bad behavior. They can kick unruly kids out and dump them on the public schools. They can tell parents who don't show up for parent-teacher night that their kid won't be allowed back the following year. They can curate their student body.

Then public schools have to deal with all the kids with behavior problems and the parents who don't prioritize education, etc.

As everyone says, not a "fair fight" and a huge problem that will be costly to overcome. And as SmilingWife quite properly said, no one wants their kid to be the guinea pig on whose life we test various educational theories to see which ones work best.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 03:30 PM

Originally Posted By: NewEveryDay
WuD what bothers me the most is the discrepancy in school. DD is in an A school but doesn't like the kids, so since we're moving anyway I'm looking in the other neighborhoods with A high schools... for a 3 bedroom home it's a 70k premium to be in the "right" school district. But don't all our taxes go to the same county? Why only the areas with highest taxes get good schools? Here the private schools offer grants to kids who perform like my daughter on exams but what about all the kids who actually need extra help. My BF school he has 38 kids per class to learn Spanish, and these are kids with limited parent involvement. It is amazing they offer breakfast lunch and dinner, but these kids need a path out too and that comes with smaller class sizes.


That is what boggles my mind too NED. I think WUD mentioned this.....it is just segregation basically......the haves and this haves not. The schools are a reflection of the community......and often the communities we live in are not what we want for our kids.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 03:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Miranda
I find this all fascinating. And I'd never considered ANY of it before.

Oldest kid was diagnosed ADHD when we lived up in the Chicago burbs. A year or so later, after we'd been dosing him with the drugs, etc, he was STILL struggling, and then got into a bad fight with some other kids. Husband, (who is a certified teacher, with a Master's Degree in Ed) decided to homeschool him, and pulled him out. Daryl was already on disability, so it just made sense, and since he had though credentials, we had no problem getting the approval.

After 3/4 of a school year at home with his dad? Kid straightened right out, AND we got him off the drugs, which were HORRIBLE for him (he was losing weight, and he was always a skinny kid, and he was a total zombie) Maybe he just needed a year to mature, maybe he was motivated because he wanted to be at school with his friends, maybe he learned how to "manage" himself because his dad leaned on him harder than school would. Idk.

He didn't fall behind curriculum wise, although Daryl was NOT horribly dedicated to traditional curriculum sometimes. I think this was maybe 5th grade?

Anyway, we never regretted doing it, and the kid is in college (AGAIN, after getting one bachelor's degree from the University of Illinois, now he's going to Nursing school.)

My brother is another case where private school got the job done when public school didn't. I had gone straight through public school all my life, and done okay. But when my brother, who had a speech problem due to being adopted with a cleft lip and a cleft palate, went to kindergarten, there was trouble. My mom made sure she was the class aide, and was in the classroom all the time. She saw the teacher avoided my brother, didn't call on him, didn't work with him. She just didn't want to be "bothered" trying to communicate with him. It was too much trouble.

So my mom pulled him out, and put him in our local Catholic school, which had smaller class size. He attended there until high school. And it was a good experience for him. They had a much less "rough and tumble" environment, where there was zero tolerance for bullying, etc. He had more personal attention from teachers when he struggled. He got what he needed. He was able to flourish. And when high school came, he was ready and able to integrate and pass.

So homeschool and private school both have served my family well. I never knew about these dark sides. I'm aghast, really.


In my experience you have to be highly dysfunctional as a family and/or be anti educational to screw up homeschooling especially in the early years. My days with Ds were so fun.....a few hours of seat work and lots of free time to play and run and go see grandparents and run errands with me. He soaked in the material and all things around him. Teaching your own child at home is very different from teaching a classroom full of strangers children.

The benefits derived from pulling kids out of bullying or otherwise bad schools far outweighs the possible academic loss.

My best friend has a son 3 years older than ds16. Her husband was sooooo against home schooling.....guess he saw a lot of bad examples in his youth. And he, the dad was highly driven type A personality.....very financially successful even then ( crazy rich now). And he felt kids needed the experience of school, and all the regular arguments.

Then when their son was in the 5 th grade he was failing math and science. And my friend was sick with a rare cancer. She called me and didn't know what to do. Her son was going to have to go to summer school and that just made my friend furious. She was having flashbacks of how much she struggled in school and how she just checked out and she could see her son doing the same. I told her it would be an easy decision for me. Pull him out. She was afraid. I said, 'how can you possibly do worse?'

So she pulled him out in April just before standardized testing. Best decision of their life. She couldn't get into the virtual state charter so she bought K12 as an independent which gave them a lot of freedom with less hoops to jump through. Even his dad who was so against it has come around to agreeing it worked for them. The kid graduated high school early ( did Penn Foster for high school)....does a lot of volunteer work and is taking on line college courses to learn how to handle his trust fund since he really will never need to work. He was never going to be an academic powerhouse so why try to force him into a mold that didn't fit.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 04:11 PM

SW. I see what you mean, and I want to agree with you.... BUT, I think about how many times I say "it isn't that difficult to NOT screw your kids up in a divorce. Just be the adults in the situation. Put your kids first, before all the other bullshinola. Put THEIR needs before your own. And that means their need to love their other parent. That's all two people have to do, it's so damn simple"

And then I watch as time and time and time again, people screw it up. How hard can this be?? Have integrity, be an adult, put your kids first (at least part of the time.) If people can't get that right, how in the heck do I expect them to get it right to teach them school subjects at home? That's way complicated by comparison.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 04:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Miranda
SW. I see what you mean, and I want to agree with you.... BUT, I think about how many times I say "it isn't that difficult to NOT screw your kids up in a divorce. Just be the adults in the situation. Put your kids first, before all the other bullshinola. Put THEIR needs before your own. And that means their need to love their other parent. That's all two people have to do, it's so damn simple"

And then I watch as time and time and time again, people screw it up. How hard can this be?? Have integrity, be an adult, put your kids first (at least part of the time.) If people can't get that right, how in the heck do I expect them to get it right to teach them school subjects at home? That's way complicated by comparison.


Miranda I don't think that is a fair comparison at all. Teaching your child is a natural thing. Breaking up a child's FOO is not natural and rarely is easy for the kid.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 04:25 PM

Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
One other advantage that private schools have is they do not have to continue to tolerate bad behavior. They can kick unruly kids out and dump them on the public schools. They can tell parents who don't show up for parent-teacher night that their kid won't be allowed back the following year. They can curate their student body.

Then public schools have to deal with all the kids with behavior problems and the parents who don't prioritize education, etc.

As everyone says, not a "fair fight" and a huge problem that will be costly to overcome. And as SmilingWife quite properly said, no one wants their kid to be the guinea pig on whose life we test various educational theories to see which ones work best.

A. Most private can not take "Special Ed" kids, the law states their IEP's HAVE to be met, they can not afford the Speech, psychologist and custom education staff/materials they need.
Average cost to provide service to Special Ed kid? -$28,000 per year, $8,500 for regular ed. Who do you think a for profit school is going to take?

We have some of the highest rated private schools in the U.S. here. Tuition is much more than voucher will pay.
Great if you can afford them.

As long as the staff is educated and fairly compensated (to the level of their education) It's all good. That is not what is happening in the charter school explosion/implosion around here.

So yes, there is a build in elitist component to charter.


Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/13/16 04:30 PM

I think parents are well intended, but some really lack the control, dedication to oversee education.

I've taken phones away, for cheating, texting, whatever - parent SWEARS they will ground student from phone, I hand it to mom - she is busting her arm to hand the phone back as soon as they walk out of room. MORE times than not. Kids are 100% in control. More than you would like to think. GOOD LUCK with that.

Parents talk big, but it's sometimes a bunch of $***. That has been my experience. We also have wonderful supportive parents in out community, too. Love them too.
Posted By: Marta

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/14/16 12:22 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Your right. Many kids will not cross paths with me. Nor Art, Music - Band, Team Sports, Debate Club, Drama Club - Student Gov, Gay/Straight Alliance.



Ummm.. Our homeschool co-op has a band. My daughter played orchestra in the community orchestra, sang in the community children's choir, etc. Many of my friends play sports with the local christian school. They partipate in our local children's community theater. In fact, they have special drama classes and a show choir for homeschool students. So homeschoolers are not deprived.

The ones that are would be the same if they went to a public school. The public school cannot overcome bad parenting.

And who "saves" the child like the one I got from a public school into my Christian school. He was making A's and B's... At our school he was failing. He was 14 and couldn't write a complete sentence, much less a paragraph. A look at his test results show he was in the 10 percentile. Yet, he was getting A's and B's. He had emotional problems as well. She withdrew him to go back to that public school so he could get decent grades. tired Honestly, the common denominator for education is parents. Period. Awful parents will have awful results in public, private or homeschool. There is very little a school can do to change that poor outcome. The parents will let them skip or make them stay out to help them at their business. (Had that when I taught public school... dad was an alcoholic and just took the child out to ....transfer... yeah.. no follow up in public schools.)

I don't know what the answer is. It is really complicated.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/14/16 02:09 AM

My school used to be the "hick" school of Downriver. Today we are a top 5% State award school.

So, there can be change, things can be fixed.
It takes years - and effort - but it's possible.

I agree without parents, you have little to go with - but the culture of the school (or charter or parochial) can influence parenting as well. We went from negative, to big community support -- marketing - then passed bond -- then moved forward from there.

We, for being tiny, are in the top 10 {8th) in our county (We have some incredibly wealthy schools in it.) So, it can be done.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/14/16 03:14 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
My school used to be the "hick" school of Downriver. Today we are a top 5% State award school.

So, there can be change, things can be fixed.
It takes years - and effort - but it's possible.

I agree without parents, you have little to go with - but the culture of the school (or charter or parochial) can influence parenting as well. We went from negative, to big community support -- marketing - then passed bond -- then moved forward from there.

We, for being tiny, are in the top 10 {8th) in our county (We have some incredibly wealthy schools in it.) So, it can be done.



I spent the day with my mom and we talked a lot about this thread. She was a 5th grade teacher in a small hick school. It is closed now. Consolidated....now 5 year olds are riding a bus an hour each way to school. That is nuts to me.

My mom is the reason I homeschooled. She loved with a passion her teaching career....but she said the system was not working and that kids like my son had a much better shot being kept out of the school system.

There are kids who don't have the options my son did though....they have no choice but to be in public school. And I am thankful for good teachers like my mom and WUD who really do care.
Posted By: believer

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/14/16 04:30 PM

I believe it is the parents' responsibility to make certain their children are educated, just like they are responsible to feed, clothe, and put a roof over their head.

We all see how that works out.

I taught both of my sons to read before they went to kindergarten. I used index cards with pictures that I printed the word on. I started with sounds of the vowels, then some consonants, then short words of those they knew. After that I wrote stories with the easy words, and boom, they could read.
We moved on to the early reader books that I found at garage sales.

It all cost me less than what many parents spend at Starbucks in less than a week, and it didn't take tons of time, either. I was working full-time.

I checked their homework and made certain they understood math and other assignments. When the math got too hard for me (I'm a dummy) I hired a teenage neighbor to tutor the oldest in Algebra.

Although we live in a wealthy area, only around 40% of high school grads go straight to college. Half of HS grads can't read at level and half can't do math, and it isn't the teachers' fault. I've sat through many a "Shadow a Student" day and the kids' behavior in some classes was deplorable, and that's when a parent was there. Usually there were only a handful of parents that attended.

If I ran the school system, the troublemakers would be tossed out and into vocational schools to learn a trade. As it is, they graduate not knowing anything or drop out and then are only prepared for low wage jobs.

The statistics from the private Catholic schools here are higher in every measurement, but they are pricey. However, the teachers spend their time teaching, not trying to deal with discipline problems.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/14/16 05:49 PM

But you are comparing apples to oranges.
Catholic and religious based educational schools SHOULD have higher student SAT's - they skim only A and B students.

If I came into your big school, opened up my little school (they had some elitist teachers want to do a "school within a school" - basically segregate the "A" students out from population for a vigorous school - while the big school provides transportation, food and administration for "free". That was called tracking back in the 70's - but this is tracking the good kids. )

back to my skimming point--
BUT If I only took parent involved "good" kids to my school, of course the average of my school would be rated higher than the average of the big schools.

There would be a big red flag if they did not do that. {COUGH, hello, charters? cough<} If you compared the Parochial schools vs our Advanced Placement Course kids, - about the top 23% of our student body -- you would see they are about even.
Shockeroo? Not really, just like life -- what you put into it is equal to what you get out. Welcome to the rest of your life.
read

I consider private school - in the established, long term schools, a perfect storm for education. You have dedicated, involved parents, students who are used to discipline, accountability and routine, and dedicated staff willing to go the extra mile. How could that be a bad thing? It's not.

But parents have the right, within reason to choose the type of education style for their own families.



Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/14/16 06:04 PM

What is missing is the practical application to education.

Back in the 70's our schools district tried a program called 'Instep'. It connected the local high schools with local businesses (I lived in the Bay Area in CA).

Companies like PG&E (utility company), HP, IBM, GE Nuclear Energy, Phone company, etc. It was an interesting variety.

It was a pilot program. About 10 schools could send 2 students from each school to participate in working with voluntary employees from those schools using the company's tools. We had badges to access secured areas and toured each facility.

Based on our applications, the selected students were given a choice of companies to attend. I choose the GE NED company since it was closer to my home. I worked with their graphics art department.

It was a short lived program. 2 days a week for 3 months, 2 hours in the evening (5 - 7pm).

I was hired from that program and worked at GE's NED facility as a paste-up artist working with the WANG typists, editors and engineers who were designing nuclear energy plants around the US.

I have no artistic skills but I was awesome at the paste-up area and worked well with the departments that fed us work. It provided an interesting work experience that I will never forget.

The local newspaper did a short story on me for that project. I was sad that more students didn't get a chance to participate. I wish more companies would do that but it does require extra work and risks on the part of local businesses.

There are other opportunities though that can help students learn how their education plays out in the working world. I think if the focus is more on that, it would help. Often there appears to be a big disconnect over the required material and practical application.

I have heard that the teachers are often hampered by having to work with a curriculum that is too restrictive that it make it difficult to allow the teachers to focus on things like practical application. Or some teachers are not supported enough to get help if they get into a teaching rut. If that is true, things need to change.

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/18/16 01:03 PM

Happy Holidays, all! If you want to see WuDs house, Christmas edition, PM.

Off to buy that Santa Suit to hang on the coat rack coming in...

Gah! Gave up on social media. For a long time, that is.... sheesh people suck, even at the holidays. I was chastised for sharing an Aleppo video {at Christmas!}..

>sigh<. So, today cookies and more ideas..
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/18/16 06:52 PM

This letter was published in the DFP, and again in NYT. Author Stephen Henderson has followed this issue for years...
It is why so many MI Educational staff is upset with what is going on:
Read at your own .....


In Detroit, parents of school-age children have plenty of choices, thanks to the nationís largest urban network of charter schools.

What remains in short supply is quality.

In Brightmoor, the only high school left is Detroit Community Schools, a charter boasting more than a decade of abysmal test scores and, until recently, a superintendent who earned $130,000 a year despite a dearth of educational experience or credentials.

On the west side, another charter school, Hope Academy, has been serving the community around Grand River and Livernois for 20 years. Its test scores have been among the lowest in the state throughout those two decades; in 2013 the school ranked in the first percentile, the absolute bottom for academic performance. Two years later, its charter was renewed.


Or if you live downtown, you could try Woodward Academy, a charter that has limped along near the bottom of school achievement since 1998, while its operator has been allowed to expand into other communities.

For students enrolled in schools of choice ó that is, schools in nearby districts who have opened their doors to children who live outside district boundaries ó itís not much better. Kids who depend on Detroitís problematic public transit are too far away from the stateís top-performing school districts ó and most of those districts donít participate in the schools of choice program, anyway.

This deeply dysfunctional educational landscape ó where failure is rewarded with opportunities for expansion and ďchoiceĒ means the opposite for tens of thousands of children ó is no accident. It was created by an ideological lobby that has zealously championed free-market education reform for decades, with little regard for the outcome.

And at the center of that lobby is Betsy DeVos, the west Michigan advocate whose family has contributed millions of dollars to the cause of school choice and unregulated charter expansion throughout Michigan.

Unqualified

President-elect Donald Trump has made a number of controversial cabinet nominations already. But none seems more inappropriate, or more contrary to reason, than his choice of DeVos to lead the Department of Education.

DeVos isnít an educator, or an education leader. Sheís not an expert in pedagogy or curriculum or school governance. In fact, she has no relevant credentials or experience for a job setting standards and guiding dollars for the nationís public schools.

She is, in essence, a lobbyist ó someone who has used her extraordinary wealth to influence the conversation about education reform, and to bend that conversation to her ideological convictions despite the dearth of evidence supporting them.

Trump's Transition: Who is Betsy DeVos? Play Video1:33
President-elect Donald Trump named Betsy DeVos as his nominee for education secretary. Here's what you need to know about the conservative activist and billionaire donor. (Video: Sarah Parnass, Osman Malik/Photo: Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)
For 20 years, the lobby her family bankrolls has propped up the billion-dollar charter school industry and insulated it from commonsense oversight, even as charter schools repeatedly failed to deliver on their promises to parents and children.

DeVos is a believer, and a powerful influence wielder for the special interest she has championed. But that doesnít make her the right pick to helm an entire arm of the federal government. Wealth should not buy a seat at the head of any policy-making table.

That is true especially in public education ó a trust between government and the people that seeks to provide opportunity for those who wouldnít otherwise have it.

The conflicts

Supporters call Betsy DeVos an ďadvocateĒ who cares for children. And she may be that.

But the policy expression of that concern has been one-sided, and as much about establishing an industry as it is about kids.

The DeVoses have helped private interests commandeer public money that was intended to fulfill the stateís mandate to provide compulsory education. The family started the Great Lakes Education Project, whose political action committee does the most prolific and aggressive lobbying for charter schools.

Betsy DeVos and other family members have given more than $2 million to the PAC since 2001. GLEP has spent that money essentially buying policy outcomes that have helped Michiganís charter industry grow while shielding it from accountability.

This summer, the DeVos family contributed $1.45 million over two months ó an astounding average of $25,000 a day ó to Michigan GOP lawmakers and the state party after the Republican-led Legislature derailed a bipartisan provision that would have provided more charter school oversight in Detroit.

GLEP also pushed hard ó and successfully ó to lift the cap on charter schools a few years ago, even though Michigan already had among the highest number of charters in the nation despite statistics suggesting charters werenít substantively outperforming traditional public schools.

And in 2000, the DeVos extended family spent $5.6 million on an unsuccessful campaign to amend Michiganís constitution to allow school vouchers ó the only choice tool not currently in play in Michigan.

Even if Betsy DeVos ceased her substantial contributions to pro-school choice lawmakers, or to GLEPís PAC, what credibility would she have in a policy job that requires her to be an advocate for all schools? Would her family divest from the PAC if she were Secretary of Education? Rein in campaign spending? And even if it did, how could she credibly distance herself from her history as a lobbyist?

About those outcomes

Beyond the conflicts, there are also deep questions about Betsy DeVosí substantive understanding of education policy.

As a private citizen, sheís free to hold any belief she wants, and to promote her beliefs however she likes, regardless of how it comports with fact or outcome. But as Secretary of Education, DeVos would be expected to help set standards, guide accountability and oversee research in a way that benefits children, through outcomes, not one particular interest or industry. And more important, the U.S. Secretary of Education must understand the value of both high-performing charters and traditional public schools.

She has no track record of working along those lines, and no experience that suggests sheís even interested in it.

Largely as a result of the DeVosí lobbying, Michigan tolerates more low-performing charter schools than just about any other state. And it lacks any effective mechanism for shutting down, or even improving, failing charters.

Weíre a laughingstock in national education circles, and a pariah among reputable charter school operators, who have not opened schools in Detroit because of the wild West nature of the educational landscape here.

In Michigan, just about anyone can open a charter school if they can raise the money. Thatís not so in most other states, where proven track records are required.

In other states, poor performers are subject to improvement efforts, or sometimes closed. By contrast, once a school opens in Michigan, itís free to operate for as long as it wants, and is seldom held accountable by state officials for its performance. Authorizers, often universities, oversee operation according to whatever loose standards they choose.

And in Michigan, you can operate a charter for profit, so even schools that fail academically are worth keeping open because they can make money. Michigan leads the nation in the number of schools operated for profit, while other states have moved to curb the expansion of for-profit charters, or banned them outright.

The illusion of choice

The results of this free-for-all have been tragic for Michigan children, and especially for those in Detroit, where 79% of the stateís charters are located.

A yearlong Free Press investigation found that 20 years after Michiganís charter school experiment began, Detroitís charter schools have shown themselves to be only incrementally stronger, on average, than traditional public schools. They have admirable graduation rates, but test scores that look nearly identical to those of public schools.

The most accurate assessment is that charter schools have simply created a second, privately managed failing system. Yes, there are high-performing outliers ó a little more than 10% of the charter schools perform in the top tier. But in Detroit, the best schools are as likely to be traditional public schools.

DeVos and her family have not been daunted by these outcomes. Itís as if the reams of data showing just incremental progress or abysmal failure donít matter. Their belief in charter schools is unshakable, their resistance to systematic reforms that would improve both public and charter schools unyielding.

They have also pushed hard on schools of choice, where districts open their borders to kids from other jurisdictions.

In concept, it could be a great equalizer: Children from poor districts could attend schools that have many more resources. But in practice, it has played out quite differently. In districts that participate in choice, white and more affluent parents have fled as poorer, minority kids have come into their schools, exacerbating de facto segregation, according to a report by Bridge Magazine.

Outcomes first

This newspaper has been, and will continue to be, an advocate for successful charter schools, and for educational choice as one way ó but certainly not the only way ó to improve this stateís school landscape.

But itís impossible to imagine such improvement will be aided by an education secretary who is so willfully impervious to the relevant data. Instead, Betsy DeVosí lodestar has been her conviction that any nontraditional public school is better than a traditional one, simply because itís not operated by government.

Charter school advocates like DeVos reject any criticism of charters as a defense of the status quo. But thatís a gross and partisan distortion, especially for people like me.

Iíve made the most personal endorsement possible by sending my two children to charter schools in Baltimore and here in Detroit. In both cases, weíve chosen high-quality charters; in Detroit, the best choices were far scarcer than in Baltimore. And to get into the high-performing school we chose in Detroit required an extraordinary effort. I have the income, the transportation and access to be sure my kids get the best opportunity available.

Most Detroit parents donít enjoy those same advantages, and they are stuck choosing from among a sea of mediocrity or worse.

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What Detroit needs are better, high-quality choices ó public, charter, whatever.

But DeVos and her family have stood in the way of improving what we have. Theyíve stood for the charter industry and its middling results, over our kids.

Iím certain sheíll try to make the nationís charter landscape look more like the chaos we face here in Detroit, and less like it does in states like Tennessee or Massachusetts or Maryland ó all much better performers who have tighter reins on charter creation and proliferation.

Her lobbying hasnít been good for Detroit, or Michigan.

It wonít be good for the nation.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/18/16 08:30 PM

Wow...... frown

Greed comes in many shapes and sizes and the lying plus deceit to sustain that greed is insatiable. very_angry

The cabinet picks all show areas where good decision making skills are lacking.

It appears that the DT is making choices of people he can control so that often leaves persons with unethical agendas. Like a fox in the hen house but this time there is a cabinet of foxes in the hen house. Scary!!!! eek

You know what else is troubling? Like spies can make their hotel reservations at the nearest T-Tower and plug straight into the WH or embassy. Anyone every wonder about that?

Undermining the education of our children, how stone cold heartless is that?

Those plotting folks should enjoy their $$$$, it's tainted with the blood of hard working folks and their children. frown

Sorry for digressing a bit.....these subjects are just so intertwined.......sadly intertwined and choking us.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/19/16 01:47 AM

Only put up there because of aforementioned comments.

This is why I became a "union thug".
Bottom line, laws created to break collective bargaining. Period. Lie to their faces, pass laws swiftly, behind doors, when you can. Without any proof that what you are doing is for the betterment of the citizenry.

You can't ask someone to take on $60k - $80k in student loan debt for a job your willing to pay $15/hr for. It doesn't make any sense. Now they are taxing, then gutting retirement and "looking at" cheaper healthcare.

It sickens me more that this ill advised DeVos is going to head the Federal Education Department. I don't even now what can be done at this point.
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/19/16 02:47 AM

I just tell people that I'm going to be really busy the next four years...
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/19/16 02:50 AM

I could tell you such horror stories about schools and grades and ratings...bottom line - those people are in there for the long haul and they are in it to protect their own career. However that system is set up, that is how the school people will set up their own world, so as to keep their jobs. Public or private or charter...if you forget that it's all about preserving jobs...we will fail.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/19/16 04:21 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Only put up there because of aforementioned comments.

This is why I became a "union thug".
Bottom line, laws created to break collective bargaining. Period. Lie to their faces, pass laws swiftly, behind doors, when you can. Without any proof that what you are doing is for the betterment of the citizenry.

You can't ask someone to take on $60k - $80k in student loan debt for a job your willing to pay $15/hr for. It doesn't make any sense. Now they are taxing, then gutting retirement and "looking at" cheaper healthcare.

It sickens me more that this ill advised DeVos is going to head the Federal Education Department. I don't even now what can be done at this point.






WUD, I want to understand this.

Who is taking on $60 to $80K in student loan debt? Teachers? Why would they do that?

Of course I think they should get paid more than $15 per hour....but the debt I can't understand.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/19/16 04:22 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
This letter was published in the DFP, and again in NYT. Author Stephen Henderson has followed this issue for years...
It is why so many MI Educational staff is upset with what is going on:
Read at your own .....


In Detroit, parents of school-age children have plenty of choices, thanks to the nationís largest urban network of charter schools.

What remains in short supply is quality.

In Brightmoor, the only high school left is Detroit Community Schools, a charter boasting more than a decade of abysmal test scores and, until recently, a superintendent who earned $130,000 a year despite a dearth of educational experience or credentials.

On the west side, another charter school, Hope Academy, has been serving the community around Grand River and Livernois for 20 years. Its test scores have been among the lowest in the state throughout those two decades; in 2013 the school ranked in the first percentile, the absolute bottom for academic performance. Two years later, its charter was renewed.


Or if you live downtown, you could try Woodward Academy, a charter that has limped along near the bottom of school achievement since 1998, while its operator has been allowed to expand into other communities.

For students enrolled in schools of choice ó that is, schools in nearby districts who have opened their doors to children who live outside district boundaries ó itís not much better. Kids who depend on Detroitís problematic public transit are too far away from the stateís top-performing school districts ó and most of those districts donít participate in the schools of choice program, anyway.

This deeply dysfunctional educational landscape ó where failure is rewarded with opportunities for expansion and ďchoiceĒ means the opposite for tens of thousands of children ó is no accident. It was created by an ideological lobby that has zealously championed free-market education reform for decades, with little regard for the outcome.

And at the center of that lobby is Betsy DeVos, the west Michigan advocate whose family has contributed millions of dollars to the cause of school choice and unregulated charter expansion throughout Michigan.

Unqualified

President-elect Donald Trump has made a number of controversial cabinet nominations already. But none seems more inappropriate, or more contrary to reason, than his choice of DeVos to lead the Department of Education.

DeVos isnít an educator, or an education leader. Sheís not an expert in pedagogy or curriculum or school governance. In fact, she has no relevant credentials or experience for a job setting standards and guiding dollars for the nationís public schools.

She is, in essence, a lobbyist ó someone who has used her extraordinary wealth to influence the conversation about education reform, and to bend that conversation to her ideological convictions despite the dearth of evidence supporting them.

Trump's Transition: Who is Betsy DeVos? Play Video1:33
President-elect Donald Trump named Betsy DeVos as his nominee for education secretary. Here's what you need to know about the conservative activist and billionaire donor. (Video: Sarah Parnass, Osman Malik/Photo: Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)
For 20 years, the lobby her family bankrolls has propped up the billion-dollar charter school industry and insulated it from commonsense oversight, even as charter schools repeatedly failed to deliver on their promises to parents and children.

DeVos is a believer, and a powerful influence wielder for the special interest she has championed. But that doesnít make her the right pick to helm an entire arm of the federal government. Wealth should not buy a seat at the head of any policy-making table.

That is true especially in public education ó a trust between government and the people that seeks to provide opportunity for those who wouldnít otherwise have it.

The conflicts

Supporters call Betsy DeVos an ďadvocateĒ who cares for children. And she may be that.

But the policy expression of that concern has been one-sided, and as much about establishing an industry as it is about kids.

The DeVoses have helped private interests commandeer public money that was intended to fulfill the stateís mandate to provide compulsory education. The family started the Great Lakes Education Project, whose political action committee does the most prolific and aggressive lobbying for charter schools.

Betsy DeVos and other family members have given more than $2 million to the PAC since 2001. GLEP has spent that money essentially buying policy outcomes that have helped Michiganís charter industry grow while shielding it from accountability.

This summer, the DeVos family contributed $1.45 million over two months ó an astounding average of $25,000 a day ó to Michigan GOP lawmakers and the state party after the Republican-led Legislature derailed a bipartisan provision that would have provided more charter school oversight in Detroit.

GLEP also pushed hard ó and successfully ó to lift the cap on charter schools a few years ago, even though Michigan already had among the highest number of charters in the nation despite statistics suggesting charters werenít substantively outperforming traditional public schools.

And in 2000, the DeVos extended family spent $5.6 million on an unsuccessful campaign to amend Michiganís constitution to allow school vouchers ó the only choice tool not currently in play in Michigan.

Even if Betsy DeVos ceased her substantial contributions to pro-school choice lawmakers, or to GLEPís PAC, what credibility would she have in a policy job that requires her to be an advocate for all schools? Would her family divest from the PAC if she were Secretary of Education? Rein in campaign spending? And even if it did, how could she credibly distance herself from her history as a lobbyist?

About those outcomes

Beyond the conflicts, there are also deep questions about Betsy DeVosí substantive understanding of education policy.

As a private citizen, sheís free to hold any belief she wants, and to promote her beliefs however she likes, regardless of how it comports with fact or outcome. But as Secretary of Education, DeVos would be expected to help set standards, guide accountability and oversee research in a way that benefits children, through outcomes, not one particular interest or industry. And more important, the U.S. Secretary of Education must understand the value of both high-performing charters and traditional public schools.

She has no track record of working along those lines, and no experience that suggests sheís even interested in it.

Largely as a result of the DeVosí lobbying, Michigan tolerates more low-performing charter schools than just about any other state. And it lacks any effective mechanism for shutting down, or even improving, failing charters.

Weíre a laughingstock in national education circles, and a pariah among reputable charter school operators, who have not opened schools in Detroit because of the wild West nature of the educational landscape here.

In Michigan, just about anyone can open a charter school if they can raise the money. Thatís not so in most other states, where proven track records are required.

In other states, poor performers are subject to improvement efforts, or sometimes closed. By contrast, once a school opens in Michigan, itís free to operate for as long as it wants, and is seldom held accountable by state officials for its performance. Authorizers, often universities, oversee operation according to whatever loose standards they choose.

And in Michigan, you can operate a charter for profit, so even schools that fail academically are worth keeping open because they can make money. Michigan leads the nation in the number of schools operated for profit, while other states have moved to curb the expansion of for-profit charters, or banned them outright.

The illusion of choice

The results of this free-for-all have been tragic for Michigan children, and especially for those in Detroit, where 79% of the stateís charters are located.

A yearlong Free Press investigation found that 20 years after Michiganís charter school experiment began, Detroitís charter schools have shown themselves to be only incrementally stronger, on average, than traditional public schools. They have admirable graduation rates, but test scores that look nearly identical to those of public schools.

The most accurate assessment is that charter schools have simply created a second, privately managed failing system. Yes, there are high-performing outliers ó a little more than 10% of the charter schools perform in the top tier. But in Detroit, the best schools are as likely to be traditional public schools.

DeVos and her family have not been daunted by these outcomes. Itís as if the reams of data showing just incremental progress or abysmal failure donít matter. Their belief in charter schools is unshakable, their resistance to systematic reforms that would improve both public and charter schools unyielding.

They have also pushed hard on schools of choice, where districts open their borders to kids from other jurisdictions.

In concept, it could be a great equalizer: Children from poor districts could attend schools that have many more resources. But in practice, it has played out quite differently. In districts that participate in choice, white and more affluent parents have fled as poorer, minority kids have come into their schools, exacerbating de facto segregation, according to a report by Bridge Magazine.

Outcomes first

This newspaper has been, and will continue to be, an advocate for successful charter schools, and for educational choice as one way ó but certainly not the only way ó to improve this stateís school landscape.

But itís impossible to imagine such improvement will be aided by an education secretary who is so willfully impervious to the relevant data. Instead, Betsy DeVosí lodestar has been her conviction that any nontraditional public school is better than a traditional one, simply because itís not operated by government.

Charter school advocates like DeVos reject any criticism of charters as a defense of the status quo. But thatís a gross and partisan distortion, especially for people like me.

Iíve made the most personal endorsement possible by sending my two children to charter schools in Baltimore and here in Detroit. In both cases, weíve chosen high-quality charters; in Detroit, the best choices were far scarcer than in Baltimore. And to get into the high-performing school we chose in Detroit required an extraordinary effort. I have the income, the transportation and access to be sure my kids get the best opportunity available.

Most Detroit parents donít enjoy those same advantages, and they are stuck choosing from among a sea of mediocrity or worse.

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What Detroit needs are better, high-quality choices ó public, charter, whatever.

But DeVos and her family have stood in the way of improving what we have. Theyíve stood for the charter industry and its middling results, over our kids.

Iím certain sheíll try to make the nationís charter landscape look more like the chaos we face here in Detroit, and less like it does in states like Tennessee or Massachusetts or Maryland ó all much better performers who have tighter reins on charter creation and proliferation.

Her lobbying hasnít been good for Detroit, or Michigan.

It wonít be good for the nation.


I guess I am not understanding why the scores are low? What is causing that?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/19/16 05:47 PM

In fact, the average Class of 2016 graduate has $37,172 in student loan debt = Public school 4 year degree. Education takes 5 years (one additional year of student teaching where full tuition is paid to the (university) school. ave. tuition = $16,000)

Private school can be double that loan amount. (Plus add the extra student teaching year, so add 1/4 more. Many can't work at all full time student teaching, so they have to borrow more that year.)

It is not hard to see that these loans are a burden to a person = average starting salary $41,000. About $19.71 an hour.
Even Public schools average $52,000. About $25/hour + retire and bennies.

But part time workers (the new "new") and no retirement, pathetic health care add to the teachers burden. So that is an added expense. I have a $2500 medical deductible now. After 25+ years of $400 deductible.

To add a Master's on top of that adds $52,000 to average student loan debt. By any reasonable persons standards, a terrible return on your $$$.

The average student loan repayment is $340/month, for a loan that size. 40 hours a week (hahaha) 19.7 x 40 = $ 800 week. $340 is a big payment.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/19/16 05:50 PM

SW;
"I guess I am not understanding why the scores are low? What is causing that?"

I wish I had one answer for that. Besides a charter only being a 2 year average teacher life, no experienced administration, not educated staff... Many can point to reasons...

the guy who wrote this was positive/pro charters... the dismal data is what changed his mind.

I'm telling the country to hold on to your under ware, it is going to be a bumpy, bumpy ride...
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/19/16 06:01 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
In fact, the average Class of 2016 graduate has $37,172 in student loan debt = Public school 4 year degree. Education takes 5 years (one additional year of student teaching where full tuition is paid to the (university) school. ave. tuition = $16,000)

Private school can be double that loan amount. (Plus add the extra student teaching year, so add 1/4 more. Many can't work at all full time student teaching, so they have to borrow more that year.)

It is not hard to see that these loans are a burden to a person = average starting salary $41,000. About $19.71 an hour.
Even Public schools average $52,000. About $25/hour + retire and bennies.

But part time workers (the new "new") and no retirement, pathetic health care add to the teachers burden. So that is an added expense. I have a $2500 medical deductible now. After 25+ years of $400 deductible.

To add a Master's on top of that adds $52,000 to average student loan debt. By any reasonable persons standards, a terrible return on your $$$.

The average student loan repayment is $340/month, for a loan that size. 40 hours a week (hahaha) 19.7 x 40 = $ 800 week. $340 is a big payment.


Yes that is a terrible return on investment.

I keep telling ds to be smart about his education and gaining experience. He is off to a great start with free vo tech.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/19/16 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
SW;
"I guess I am not understanding why the scores are low? What is causing that?"

I wish I had one answer for that. Besides a charter only being a 2 year average teacher life, no experienced administration, not educated staff... Many can point to reasons...

the guy who wrote this was positive/pro charters... the dismal data is what changed his mind.

I'm telling the country to hold on to your under ware, it is going to be a bumpy, bumpy ride...


My sons virtual state run charter school has a terrible grade this year. 40% graduation rate. Low scores in math and science. But my son has straight A's and is scoring very high on all his standardized testing. So I can't believe it is the teachers fault. His teachers are great and the curriculum is top notch. He has every opportunity to gain knowledge and to get his grades up and keep them up. But due to some very complex issues a lot of kids who go to these type virtual schools can't hack it...and that is not the fault of the school or teacher.
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/20/16 05:25 AM

I had two neighbor girls who dropped out of online school. They thought it was going to be easier but found it harder in practice.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/20/16 04:23 PM

Pretty much every drop out I've met or signed out of my class early, was going to "home school", "online school" or "Summit" <= our local charter...
It is hard to not believe that those are just words anymore.

Online is hard because you have to self police your study/learn time. No one is going to do that for you anymore. I skip through the OCEA training because it is so slow paced, never changing video - but I have to let it play for the full 30 minutes, or I can't take the test.
I can't even imagine how tempting this would be with a whole class that you are not interested in. I'm a really good student.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/20/16 05:02 PM

Kids who drop out of brick and mortar generally are doing so for reasons that also make them not the kind of student who can self pace. They either have a homelife in upheaval or they've been bullied or they have learning problems....so if they come home to an on line school like k 12 and there is no parent or other adult in the picture to supervise and encourage and help them keep on top of things.....it is just a recipe for disaster.

My son is a junior in high school and I STILL check his schedule and ask questions and tell him he can't go out with friiends if his school work isn't done.

When I signed up for k12 through the state charter ds was 6 years old. They has orientation for the parents and did a hard scare tactic on how much work it is and how much time per week a parent needs to be there watching and helping. It was 30 hours a week....still is. Not one time in 11 years has ds ever had to spend 30 hours per week on his school work.

And yet the drop out rate is very high. Most common reason is that it is too difficult. It isnt too difficult.."..but it takes determination to do the work and ask for help and go to the classes with teachers and other students..

Having said all of that I believe on line charter schools are very different than B&m charter seem to be grouped together in this discussion, but they are very different. And so I can't speak to the reason for such bad test scores for B&m charters.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/20/16 05:56 PM

Today was a typical day.

Pretty girl; "Hey! I need a charger? Does anyone have a charger?"
Young man; "Yes."
Pretty girl; "Really???!!! Wow! is it in your locker? Can you go get it? Do you really have one?"
Young man; "UUUmmmm, No."
Pretty girl; "What? Awwww."
Young man; {brightens} "But I HAVE some jelly beans in there!"
"Can I go get jelly beans, Ms. WuD??... Can I go? can I, can I, can I?"

Table next; "What kind of jelly beans are they?"

... I'm too the point as an adult that I am not phased by this thought strand, makes perfect sense to me..{why not?}.. means I have been teaching a looooooong time..." scratch
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/20/16 06:19 PM

I don't try to promote charitable acts, but I have to say.
Yesterday was supposed to be my 29th anniversary. For some stupid reason it was on my mind all day (last year it did not phase me as much.) It really dragged me down.

Sad, I had to focus about what I HAD instead of what I did not, try to figure out the reason why, or, worse yet, wonder if XH ever gives a thought about what he ()*&^% he did.

I tried to get the staff to donate to a former student who is alone this year, broke, now evicted. She has a son (and a step son, but she's not married - {1/2 brother, maybe?})

I donated an art kit to her, and paper- but some staff brought in gift cards for food and gas and our maintenance ladies decided to take some stuff to her, from the Goodfellows.

She wrote me yesterday that they came, and she was overwhelmed with the gifts and thoughts and food.
I was not sure about the delivery date.

She said she was not use to "being on this side", of the charity part, but it made her very, very happy. They delivered enough to make it the BEST Christmas the boys ever had. (I'm sure we didn't deliver that much.)

It made me happy to help, she is studying nursing so this situation will not be forever.....and for her to be so happy with so little is heartwarming.

Instead of me being sad of what I don't have, it turned into actions that created positive energy for someone else..



Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/20/16 07:09 PM

You are just the absolute bomb, WUD!

I'm serious about that. You take your troubles and turn them into blessings for someone else. I can't think of anything more special than that. I just can't.

I love you. Truly. Would love to give you a hug and buy you a drink
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/20/16 08:04 PM

I can't ethically hug WuD or buy her a drink but I am happy to pay Miranda for a round on me.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/21/16 05:06 AM

WuD, you are always thinking of other people. What a sweet gesture. Thank you for your kindnesses for others, even when you are struggling so much yourself. Hugs.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/21/16 04:33 PM

WUD, how did I miss that you are teacher of the year in your district! That is awesome! Congratulations my friend.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/21/16 04:42 PM

Where was that tidbit? I missed that too!!

Wow, that's really something. Congratulations on that amazing achievement. You definitely deserve accolades for that.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/21/16 04:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Miranda
Where was that tidbit? I missed that too!!

Wow, that's really something. Congratulations on that amazing achievement. You definitely deserve accolades for that.


She sneaked it in Bluebells thread.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/21/16 04:57 PM

ah... I don't read that one! Thanks for bringing it here, SW!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/22/16 07:00 AM

Oh, that was a few years ago...
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/22/16 10:57 AM

I vote for WUD as awesome woman of the year!!!!!

We have several pretty incredible women in the news and it is encouraging to see them do some powerful things.

WUD, u r a teacher, talented decorator, accomplished artist, mother, super skilled renovator with some kick azz renovation skills. Your talents get to shine more now because you have allowed yourself to grow.

U go girl!!!! smile

Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/22/16 12:00 PM

PPPTTHAks, O2.
You have some pretty mad, practical advice and continual empathy for others skills. Both very rare no a days.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/22/16 02:19 PM

I don't care when it was, it's an impressive and important thing to have on that impressive and important list of things you've got the Orchid barely scratched the surface of!

Seriously, lady, you're straight up amazing. Give yourself credit for it!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 12:11 AM

Miranda: I admire people like you who every day reach out to advise and help complete strangers who are dealing with the worst situations of their lives...

My mother would have called that a "mutual admiration society".
smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 12:18 AM

Well fiddle sh*z. >sigh.

Daughter 20 is having dinner with her dad tonight. Since We don't discuss his contacts to her at all, I was a bit surprised when she announced she was thinking about going. meh.

I told her only two things. If she told him she was going, she shouldn't back out day of - and not not offer or give information about her sister/new husband - at all.

DD23 is very hostile toward her father, still, to what jack wagon did, if little sis blabs about her, I think I'd find a huge snow pile in the back yard with "RIP DD20" piped in Christmas Cookie frosting on the side....

SO, two years of active sheer MISERY - you guys here can attest to, and he's going to swoop in like a Disney Dad with a check... I had to charge groceries so we could eat food during the worst of it.

*&%^($#*&$(#*$^(*&$($(&%)$*&(#^$(#*&$*(#&$(#%(*&( !!!!!!! very_angry

{Such is life.} I will be a good -- I will be good -- I will be good.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 12:41 AM

Oh WUD....I know this sucks. I totally get it.

Yes, you will be good. You have the advantage of 2 years worth of education from this board and the benefit of us having lived through it. You ca do it. Just keep quiet and nod if she tells you about it.

Remember YOU are the parent she knows she can depend on to be a parent. And that involves much more than handing her a check.

Give her the gift of allowing her to love her father. It is hard but I have faith in you.
Posted By: believer

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 01:20 AM

Hopefully he won't forget the check...
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 01:37 AM

and give her the $8,700 for her car (she totaled, he kept the insurance check.)
-- + Chip in his share for her college education.

I'm not kidding when I say I gave everything to protect this kid from him and his actions. He was WS monstering jerk face jack wagon ZERO sum father....

She's the reason I bought a house in the town I did - although I chose wisely/luck/invest, the location to 5 universities was paramount in my decision...
with a 500 sq ft open dormer space for her alone. "DD20-land".

Gladly handed over my paycheck many times for her "over the counter" allergy meds - he refused - tuition, car deposit/repair. To be broke for 2 more weeks..

{yeah, I know "tiny violins" - MOST parents have done such things for their kids...}

He makes 2x my salary, has helped with ZERO kid bills - wasted tens of thousands of family money - for his OW and shinny new life...

I don't want to hear ONE. Flipping. THING about his "poor me"...
Posted By: MaidUpName

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 09:15 AM

Oh WUD, I know where you're coming from.

Ds14 dropped on me yesterday that he was thinking of joining Ds10 and WD for a night with his family when he gets here after Christmas. I smiled sweetly and said that's no problem while inside something died again.

I earn minimum wage, he earns a six figure sum and pays nothing towards their upkeep, school fees, clothes, food, shoes, and yea, I'm with you on the monthly allergy meds! I'm very grateful that I get a contribution towards the mortgage but I'm not sure how he expects the boys to live on nothing while he lives the high life with his troll

And while I've skrimped and saved to do,Christmas and borrowed from my elderly parents, he'll zip in her like an over loaded Santa Clause and be the best Dad in the world ever for three days!

I know they see through it, I know they understand that I'm always here, always reliable, always available and willing to do/spend whatever I can on them but the whole Disney Dad thing boils my blood.

Looks like my contract will end the end of January - it has been good while it lasted if very difficult but I'm wondering how the hell I'm going to manage back on benefits.

Sigh - I'll worry about all that in the New Year, in the mean time I'm going to enjoy the Christmas which the boys and I will have together.

Look after yourself and celebrate all you have achieved

MUN
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 11:51 AM

It is so sad to see fathers neglect their children like that. I'm so grateful that your kids had you they could count on through the worst of it.

My mom gave me an hour long tirade when I reconnected with my Dad at 18 after he had gone missing for years. She was not just angry with him, but angry and disgusted with me for letting him back into my life. I understand her anger and disgust. But even a grown kid needs their Dad too. I don't know how to explain it. Please don't make her feel like a disappointment to you for wanting a relationship with her Dad. He's still going to let her down sometimes, and I know you want to protect her from that, but she's grown and decided the risk is worth it.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 02:09 PM

Here's the thing you guys. I know it hurts you, I know they are terrible Dads and terrible people, BUT... kids are healthier when they have love for their parents. Full stop. End of sentence.

Even when that parent is a bad person, the child is better off (and this is true regardless of the child's age) if they can have some kind of loving and warm relationship with BOTH their parents.

I've looked at this from all the angles. I've studied it. I hate it too, I swear I do.

The mother of the two people I love the most in this world, abandoned them, to run away with her AP. That's right, the court ruled she abandoned them, she fled the state with some deadbeat who didn't hold a job for most of 25 YEARS!

She sent less than $200 a month for their support while she lavished the AP with cars, and money for countless "education" attempts (while he didn't work at all.) She never came to visit those kids unless she had some other reason for coming our way, never sent a shred of money besides what was "owed" via the court system. Never bought clothes or shoes or sports equipment or anything of consequence.

She had SUPERVISED visitation only, and when the court came to her with that, she couldn't think of anyone to be supervisor. My husband called me on the phone and asked if I would do it. I never batted an eye, I said "of course I'll do it, they need to have a relationship with their mom, anything I can do to make that happen, I will do, proudly and with a giving heart." We welcomed her into our home for that visitation on many occasions, even though she had the loathsome AP with her, and fed them at our table.

Now I'm not saying you have to go as far as we did, I know it's a bit beyond the pale. We wanted to do everything we could to try to help the kids have a healthy relationship with their mom. It only worked with one kid, the other one, well he can't stand her. He bonded too tightly to me. WAY too tightly, because I was the one there for him every day. There's no fixing that. But at least he has a close bond with a female parent figure, I guess that's something.

But honestly, try to do your best to pave the way for these kids to have some kind of relationship with your ex. You don't have to manage it or anything, just clear the road. It's a gift for your child's well being and mental health.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 04:18 PM

Miranda is right ladies listen to her wise voice.

And clearning the way is mostly in your own head because that is where the greatest resistance is. You have to hush that voice that wants to do what NEDs mom did and go off on your children in anyway to make them feel like they are betraying you by wanting to see their father.

They need permission to love both parents. I did not do the greatest job on that. I have in the last 6 years but early on I sucked by not being able to hold it together in front of my kids.

In PLS's thread he talks about his wayward wife ( X by now I think) calling their 10 year old I to the library to tell him she wouldn't have enough money to send him to school ( private school I think) because his dad wouldn't give her enough support . The child came out crying and told the dad he would get a job to help them with money. That BREAKS my heart.

I know you are both doing better than that and better than I did. But it will be an ongoing process......it will sneak up on you when you least expect it so be prepared.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 04:40 PM

It's hella difficult. I checked myself EVERY single time I mentioned her. EVERY time. We never discussed money with them, how much she sent, what there was etc. There were times we said "we can't afford that right now" but we did it as little as possible, even if it meant we went without things we'd rather have.

We never talked about why the marriage ended. Not ever. We kept those details for until they were adults and had the discernment to process adult information. I know lots of folks think that's wrong, but we thought it was best for our family. I don't regret it even to this day. We didn't lie, we said "that's adult business, it's not for kids, we can discuss it when you're a grown up, but not now." We just never said a negative thing about her. Not ever. And husband did not use them as "support" or a sounding board or anything like that. They were kids, that's not a job for kids, and it's not good for them to do that kind of work. If you need a therapist, get one, if you need a friend, make one. But don't put your kids in that position, it's just not fair. They don't need to hear that someone they love is a low down dirty snake. It's not good for them.

If they have to learn that about their parent, let them learn it on their own, and not from your lips.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 06:11 PM

My DD20 was hurt about the worst in this mess. No. Just because someone is a family member does not mean they are healthy for your life. That is what's proven.

I know many don't believe in Mid Life Crisis, Cluster B personalities, or Narc (passive or otherwise) - he is not mentally healthy. (At the time of BD.)

I've had counselors, police, attorneys and family/friends see it from miles away -- I was the one who couldn't see it for the longest time.

I'm not saying this just cause he's angry with me. He stole from the kid, now want's "absolution" with a pizza? How can I expect her to stand up for herself EVER?

If you knew DD20 you would get it - if Cinderella's personality was present {the book Cinderella - not the movie...- (no matter what &^*^%$ was shoveled her way, she remains constantly kind to others...no man nor beast was ever harmed by knowing her...really.)

That is part of the reason I fear her "picking up strays" as friends. They take terrible advantage of her.
Boyfriends throw her scraps, her "friends" ask her to drive 2 hours to let their dogs out -
(But Mom! "Snoopy" and "Spot" are hungry! They are sitting in a mess!)

Miranda: I know what you mean. At younger ages, I agree, but at older ages 15 - 16 + on, we have to teach our young people that just because they are "family", does not mean they belong in your life.
When she totaled her car, I was very close by, but when I got there, an elderly officer was holding her shoulder, she was sobbing so hard.

As I schmoozed the paramedics, the tow truck guy, loaded said kid into my dry car (is was a downpour), the officer came up and asked, rather kindly; "Is she going to be O.K? She is taking this way too hard on herself."

( smile It took them awhile to figure out that "Cheryl" - the being she was upset about - was the ruined car - not a person)

When she called her dad - first call to him in a year, the only thing he asked "Is the car totaled? Is anyone there hurt?"
He immediately called the insurance demanding the check be mailed to him. - for her car. She paid all upkeep, insurance and gas.

Didn't even ask about HER. Even the officer was shaking his head.






Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 06:25 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
My DD20 was hurt about the worst in this mess.

I know many don't believe in Mid Life Crisis, Cluster B personalities, or Narc (passive or otherwise) - he is not mentally healthy. I've had counselors, police, attorneys and family/friends see it from miles away -- I was the one who couldn't see it for the longest.

I'm not saying this just cause he's angry with me. He stole from the kid, now want's "absolution" with a pizza? How can I expect her to stand up for herself EVER?

If you knew DD20 you would get it - if Cinderella's personality was present {the book Cinderella - not the movie...- (no matter what &^*^%$ was shoveled her way, she remains constantly kind to others...no man nor beast was ever harmed by knowing her...really.)

That is part of the reason I fear her "picking up strays" as friends. They take terrible advantage of her.
Boyfriends throw her scraps, her "friends" ask her to drive 2 hours to let their dogs out -
(But Mom! "Snoopy" and "Spot" are hungry! They are sitting in a mess!)

Miranda: I know what you mean. At younger ages, I agree, but at older ages 15 - 16 + on, we have to teach our young people that just because they are "family", does not mean they belong in your life.
When she totaled her car, I was very close by, but when I got there, an elderly officer was holding her shoulder, she was sobbing so hard.
As I schmoozed the paramedics, the tow truck guy, loaded into my dry car (is was a downpour), the officer came up and asked, rather kindly "Is she going to be O.K?" She is taking this way too hard.

(It took them awhile to figure out that "Cheryl" was the ruined car - not a person)

When she called her dad - first call to him in a year, the only thing he asked "Is the car totaled? Is anyone there hurt?"
He immediately called the insurance demanding the check be mailed to him. - for her car. She paid all upkeep, insurance and gas.

Didn't even ask about HER. Even the officer was shaking his head.








So she knows enough about how he has done her to see him for what he is. She isn't living in the dark about him. And she is an adult. She may have pizza with him and get a check to help her with school. She may have pizza and get no check and then have dinner with him again next month. She might see him for what he is and still have a relationship with him.

The thing is......if she does.....and it is her call...but if she does it is not a relfection of her love for you.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 06:29 PM

Turn the thought process around: any check that DD23 or DD20 get from dad is a victory. It isn't appeasement. It isn't forgiving him or saying what he did was acceptable. It is just one dollar he can't spend on OW. Think of your kids as allies in the fight to deprive OW of WD's money. Every visit and every present is a victory in that battle.

No, it doesn't make what he did right. No, it will still sting that he is trying to buy his way into their good graces. But he is, after all, just doing what you would want him to do for his daughters. So be pleased rather than resentful when he does. It will help make up for all the time he abandons them and treats them like poop.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 06:30 PM

No, it's her showing love for herself.
Respect
Acceptable treatment
boundaries.
boundaries. boundaries and more boundaries.

Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 06:44 PM

Her loving heart is not going to execute boundaries the same way you do. And you cannot force it to. When she's had enough, she'll make her boundaries in her own way. And they'll be strong.

In a way I'm like your daughter. It takes me a long time to decide I've had enough. I let people stay a long time. but I'm just not done learning from them, learning about them, learning about life, learning about them. Maybe I'm a slow learner, or maybe I just learn a lot about a lot of things from everyone. I don't know. What I do know is I can't be rushed or forced. I will do it in my own time, in my own way, and when I do, nothing is getting through my boundaries. They are made of stone, and high as the sky.

Don't be scared, WUD. I know it's hard to watch her, that you worry about her. But she's smart, and kind, and she's had a great example in you. She's going to be ok. Give her room, and your trust, and your support, and solid place to land when she's hurting. That's what she really needs.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 07:38 PM

She just told me she's changing not only her major, but her university. Her hair is a shade of purple (at least a wash not a semi permanent color.)
She got a tattoo that looks like a 7th grader picked it out. (iiiii'mmmm an aaaarrrrttttiiiist - hello?) smirk
her room looks like a bomb went off in it up there - (really?)

Her dog gets custom cooked food and 30 minute lavender/Apple vinegar tub soaks every day -- that I have to give her because DD20 is over "rescuing" 2 friends Sheppard's..

AND the jerk-face that's currently chasing her is 34.

I have not said a word.. but I do have a twitch in my eye.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 07:48 PM

oh man.... yeah she's in a rough patch, for sure. I know this is killing you inside. Been there done that. I watched my baby boy go through a period of time where he rode a garbage truck all winter. Rode it, not drove it... He had washed out of college two times. He was living with us, and had to have a job, because the rules were "in school, basically no rent, no school, $400 rent." And he didn't have a car anymore, and his dad had to drive him to work, and then he got fed up paying us rent and moved out, moved in with a bunch of layabout "friends."

Ugh this was a kid who tested in the 95th percentile and above across the board! Sweet as the day is long. Gets along with everyone. I was just dying a little bit each day. He lost the job on the garbage truck! Wound up doing restaurant work. Then came to us and said "what should I do?"

Finally, he wanted to hear US. And husband took him to see some military recruiters, because the kid asked about it. I shuddered at it, but... husband said "it's a viable alternative, let him explore it" and he tested with the Air Force, and brought home the jobs list that he tested with, said he could choose anything from the list and they would guarantee him that placement. We read it over, and said "Air Traffic Controller, do this!" He looked at us funny, and said "really?" And we said "YES!" It was a job with a good future OUTSIDE the military, it was a job in the military that doesn't deploy to dangerous places as a rule, and he loves strategy games, not shoot em up, but STRATEGY. This was it!

He listened, and he's loved us and thanked us and been grateful as HELL to us ever since. He's finished with his tour in the Air Force, gotten a controller job with the Department of Defense, and is a happy guy.

But yeah, we had to go through some hell to get there.

Your girl will get there. I have faith.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/23/16 11:46 PM

Thank you, Miranda.

"Tooney" {DD20} will be just fine. I get it. Everyyone calls her "mini me".
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/25/16 08:34 PM

I hope everyone had a good holiday. Mine was ok. Lots of food and cooking, a little bit lacking on appreciation (in my humbles) for the hostess/chef.
Everyone enjoyed their gifts...

My "Hollywood" nephew and I had a interesting conversation about casting.

That world spins at high RPM. He did so well with "This is us", -generational casting is very hard, three actors for every roll. He's dealing with Hamilton LA, and Disney. Just finished Beauty and the Beast -- now Poppins.

It's going to be a future Poppins (like Hook was) - with Manuel Lin (Burt) and Glen Close (new character). I think he said Beal as Mary, but I forgot....

Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/25/16 08:34 PM

no not Beal.... I'll think of it, I'm sure...
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/26/16 09:36 PM

Spent a day quiet putting house back in order. Will try to show a little more energy tomorrow. wink

Feels good to have some time off. Trying to regroup. The kids seemed to have a nice holiday.
DD23 is happily married and traveling to new husband's relatives right now.
DD 20 is trudging along. She did have dinner with her dad. Has off offered nor have I asked about him.

I did ask if he promised to help her with tuition. POS told her "no". He can only afford what he puts in her "allowance" account. (like - her high school gas money account - less than 1% of his pay.)

So, without comment I left it at that. That tells me everything I need to know about him...
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/27/16 08:46 PM

"My heart has joined the thousand, for my friend stopped running today."

-- Awwww. Richard Adams, Watership Down. The reason I identify with rabbits.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/27/16 09:14 PM

oh are you KIDDING ME?? Are you freaking KIDDING me!!!

Carrie Fisher and Richard Adams? I can't take it. I just can't take it. That's it.

One of these people taught me more about sociology than I ever could have learned any other way. The other one taught me more about being a spunky badass woman than I knew was possible. Both in the same time frame in my life.

My preteen years just collapsed in heap of tears. I need to go hide in my bed now. W. T. literal F?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/27/16 09:35 PM

Well, he was in his 90's and a highly celebrated author in his time.
Posted By: TC_Manhattan

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/27/16 09:57 PM

And how about George Michael?
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/27/16 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: TC_Manhattan
And how about George Michael?


His songs are swirling in my head while I'm suppose to be working (well, I am working just with a lot of music - old fashion style.....from memory - no iphone),

Sad to hear about Carrie Fisher........She certainly gave us a lot of memories that crossed generations.

My deepest condolences to those families and all who have lost loved ones this past year. hug

Orchid
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/27/16 10:22 PM

I'm not overly fussed about George Michael for some reason

the loss of 2/3 of Emerson, Lake and Palmer in this year has me a bit down, but I don't talk about it because I'm pretty sure most people don't care. I do though, deeply.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/28/16 10:16 PM

I guess I'm not surprised. DD20 comes in carrying a package delivered in the mail.

It's from boyfriend 23, she cut loose a few months ago. At that time, I was happy for her, this fella was OK, but was very much lacking in boyfriend skills, plus, I believed he was addicted to pain patches, (he had a football injury/tear to his neck/shoulder, his week seemed to revolve around way too much on patch day, patch is wearing off day and a few good in between days...

He also was not a very attentive boyfriend, I think I described his attention to her as "scraps" before. Not a very good fit. It was my daughter that called it in the end.
She wanted more attention, his attitude was "I'm not going to change."

note: Now I am seriously hoping it was not because OD34 {old dude- sorry, I can't help myself.} was somewhere in the picture.

She assumed the box was her "old stuff" he had and didn't want to talk to her to exchange in person. When she opened it, it was full of gifts....and a letter and dog gifts...
She is now beside herself....in guilt.
With my sharp WuD? brain all I could think of was to tell her to put the entire thing aside, box and all out of sight for a day or so and think about what she wants to do with it. Best/only mom advice I could think of on the fly.

She already read the note.. impatient . He obviously wants her back, though does not directly SAY that. Though I never read the note, nor will I - she read a few sentences to me. oh boy....
From the three sentences she read, It sounded like it was all about HIM, missing her - him, him, him and him.... angry almost like a WS note, everything is funneled through their experience.... maybe I'm reading too much into that...

HhHHHHHHHhhhHHHHEEEEEEEyyyyyyyyyy!

She recently talked to her dad, my xh. Scraps, scraps and more scraps... (like, "Yeah, I cut you off at BS, I took your college $$, your transportation/car and your gems, - long story - but I don't want you to be mad at me.. I'm lonely! Here's $40, good luck with college! ) < this is the jist, I really don't know what he said, but he seriously makes 2x what I do, has no kids or house, and lives with his brother (apparently)
Is there such a thing as "pick me dance" dad style? If so, this was a play for one.

This young lady has a lot of decisions to make.

Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/29/16 01:01 PM

How can you help DD20? Dealing with wanting/accepting "scraps" is a hard thing to learn. I would like to help my teenage girl learn and understand that she is worth more than scraps, just like your DD20. It would be heart-breaking to watch our kids learn the hard way on this one.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/29/16 07:33 PM

She always has had a soft heart. Underneath my scales and armor, many may say I have one too. So I understand the trust thing. Loyalty, not always a good thing.

Her old job ran her like Secretariat. Round and round. She finally stood up for herself and quit... at least now with the new job she does not have to work 10 hour shifts ....

But heck! I still have dreams about xh apologizing to me. So really, who am I to tell her to stand up? After all the &^#^%$@ he pulled, there is part of me that looks backwards. When will my thick head get the message? After then -- THEN I can advise her without being a hypocrite.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/30/16 07:51 AM

Man, can't sleep.
Sistah hospitalized, again, I had to go to the ER too.

This was my 3rd holiday post BD/divorce, I am no where near "free". Maybe it's DD20 meeting xh.
A really good friend said to me the 2 1/2 - 3 year mark is when it all really sets in. The loss of a long term marriage to divorce. In some cases, this "blowback" can be some of the hardest time. (I think it's the 6 month and 2 year mark in trauma recovery that are notorious.)

Even as *(&%$^ as he was, I couldn't help but imagine him at the holiday table. out of sheer habit.

P.S. that is not nuts or unusual for me. Another wonderful aspect of my synesthesia is when I remember someone, it is as if they are standing right there. Usually only a certain pose, I full well know it's a memory . no. I don't see dead people. - but if I could I would! That would be great....

Might be why I have such a hard time looking forward not back. I loved to look back, my entire life. I remember my kids running around as toddlers.

I wonder if that is why my counselor told me at BD - "After about 2 1/2 - 3 years they are sitting on my couch." Her entire career was businessmen from this company. She could probably write a book. She was wonderful. retired now.

I wonder if that is why most affairs last about 18 months, when the shine wears off and the reality sets in.

It would make sense. I have worked so hard by myself on this house, I have forgotten that I used to have teamwork on everything. I forgot what it was like to be married. That realization broke my heart all over again. not about xh - it was the realization about me.
('prolly why he scooted off - he didn't want to keep up anymore.... smile
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/30/16 01:49 PM

Wud, I'm so sorry it's so hard right now. Please don't put one ounce of blame on yourself, just take it all off. You are an amazing person and we all benefit from time with you. It's his loss.

One of my best friends has a DH who didn't want to keep up with her anymore. He actually said to us, "she never lets me sit down." She was shocked to hear it, but took it seriously, and did what Cat always suggests and hired out some stuff, got their son to do some stuff, waited on some stuff. It turned out to be a medical thing, so he lost the weight that was exhausting him and finished off those trees she wanted him to do, and now they have all the free time for long walks and vacations. They are more in love at 30 year anniversary than ever, and you can tell in how glowing they both are. It is so cool to see.

Your xh had options, and either was conned or conned himself into the wrong ones. Who knows if he has gone back to being the man you knew, you'll see it in how he treats his kids. It doesn't sound like it yet, and I know it's hard to see DD20 put herself out there for someone who hasn't shown himself to be safe yet. My Dad changed, totally, I think it was maybe 10 years, but he did get free, and we got a good 15 years with him being a Dad and Grandpa again. Part of it with my Dad was drug abuse, and I wonder whether that was the case with your xh. That's the only explanation why I can think that he would deny DD20 the funds from her car like that, would be if something that strong had its claws into him deep. I pray that your xh can disentangle too from whatever had gotten ahold of him.

I get those sad moments right before the next growth spurt.

Any how, sorry to go on about that, today is a new day!!! I am SO THRILLED to be here to see where it takes you!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/30/16 07:15 PM

xh sent DD20 a card. GOOD I hope there is $$$ in it for her. He put his return address, sister checked - yup - the original OW's post divorce house. It is listed in her name.

All big, shinny brand new....didn't have to lift a finger except move in.
I am delighted beyond words can express....

The only two things I know about the OW is #1. She spends money like a drunken sailor (via conversation with her xh) and #2. She is bat shyte crazy.

#1. XH HATES overspending. It was a huge marital row (and a wonderful lesson in economics for me.) to kick the credit habit. Now I make being cheap/quality a game.. but you guys know this.
#2. Dysfunction attracts dysfunction. Explosive temper, - rages - compulsive lying, spending -- investing in a home that big -- I could have see the sale price, but I didn't check - I thought that was too creepy.

Zillow ballpark values the house at $550,000 I quite guarantee you they have a jumbo loan... NO WONDER he told DD20 he can't afford to give her any $$$ -
they will have to pay for shinny new everything........

spending:
It took me 2 or 3 years, but I paid off all of them (PLUS raised the family and all my regular bills.) That huge accomplishment got me ZERO credit at the MC....

I thought they broke up, will wonders never cease? They broke up 2x during the divorce maybe it's off and on thing...
(Sounds like a match made in heaven. They are perfect, they deserve each other.)

Let's see.... They have a 3% chance at being together in 5 years. But who knows?
He is such a trustworthy darling, she is such a chaste floating flower.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/30/16 07:24 PM

Sage advice from finance lady: "You the first wife?" me; "yeah" Lady; "GOOD! you get the good cut!" and for middle class folks, I did..

She looked me square in the eyes and said "Don't worry, Hunny. In a few years he will be sitting right here settling 401K with her in his next divorce. I . see . it . every . day. Every . day." I will remember those "kind" words. smile

They deserve each s#i**y other. To have a whale of a house, bought at the top of the market, high end house in so so schools - Give me a big Ernie - Ernie from Sesame Street the kkkhhhaahe he he he he!

Oh, I hope very quickly in the future I won't care a bit, but for now, for today - small justice...Kizmet.

I'm sure that was meant as a barb for me (return label.)
It, for now anyway - absolutely made my day.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/30/16 07:49 PM

I really look forward to the day that none of this impacts you at all, WUD..

I so look forward to that.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/30/16 08:18 PM

30 years is a long time, Miranda. An entire life and future - squandered.

I spoke with a counselor about this (still impacting me). She said 2 1/2 years is way too early to be pressuring myself to get over it. In fact she kind of laughed...

I'll never be "meh" about the squandering of our life savings, when $$$ should have been sent to our children for school. I figure we wasted 3 bachelors worth...

PS I vent here. Everyone else is sick of me.... wants bouncy, recovered WuD?
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/30/16 08:48 PM

oh I don't expect you to be bouncy recovered, WUD. I just hope that you get to a place where his actions don't affect you so much. Where you can reach a level of indifference about what he does today.

I totally get that you feel enormous loss about the time etc.

Look, I've had to let go of my entire FAMILY. Cut them out of my life completely because they are just too toxic. It's so incredibly painful. I could easily obsess about what they're doing, but I have had to force myself to let it go. They don't have an impact on my life now. Sure I still have pain about what happened in the past, but not in the here and now. That was the point of cutting them off, to stop the damage. It took me some time to figure out HOW though. I hope you can come to that place too.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/31/16 01:30 AM

Thank you. If I could buy a bottle of it, "eu de indifference", I'd do it....

According to this counselor, I'm looking at years. But she says each passing one will be better. She has been my voice of reason.
-- Man, I admire the people who can turn it off. I never could.
But I'm nothing if not honest....

Doing some more research.... smile yoga...

I also post brutally honest (not Mary Poppins happy, or only in the dumps.)
It's the way I will get through this...

Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/31/16 02:46 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Sage advice from finance lady: "You the first wife?" me; "yeah" Lady; "GOOD! you get the good cut!" and for middle class folks, I did..

She looked me square in the eyes and said "Don't worry, Hunny. In a few years he will be sitting right here settling 401K with her in his next divorce. I . see . it . every . day. Every . day." I will remember those "kind" words. smile


Orchid: Oh, his train runs a bit slow and backwards. Eventually a commuter or freight train will be headed down those same tracks and......well......it won't be a tea party on the tracks.

Sounds like he is headed for another disaster, of his choosing. The finance lady is right, you got out in the nick of time.

Now how that affects your personal recovery is what you have within your control. It is truly hard to realize that stupid can infect a person so badly that you can't even recognize them. But it does happen and you have living proof in your XH.

I'm glad you were able to move and make the changes you did. Your hard work is already paying off but it may be a bit early for you to really feel the impact.

Be patient, you will be able to see progress and that will help you close that chapter of your life. What is ahead for you is exciting.

The WS is seeing his real life slip away and may already be having doubts (aka: his reaching out to the girls). But it is still more about him than about his family, so he gets to keep the $OW (that's what I can a gold digging OW).

Stick with us WUD, we know you've got a future with great potential. You've a special set of skills girl!!!! Add talent and awesome abilities. smile

Originally Posted By: Miranda
oh I don't expect you to be bouncy recovered, WUD. I just hope that you get to a place where his actions don't affect you so much. Where you can reach a level of indifference about what he does today.

I totally get that you feel enormous loss about the time etc.

Look, I've had to let go of my entire FAMILY. Cut them out of my life completely because they are just too toxic. It's so incredibly painful. I could easily obsess about what they're doing, but I have had to force myself to let it go. They don't have an impact on my life now. Sure I still have pain about what happened in the past, but not in the here and now. That was the point of cutting them off, to stop the damage. It took me some time to figure out HOW though. I hope you can come to that place too.


Wow Miranda, r u sure we are not related? I know folks think I'm rude for having to do the same but really.......Y R there so many relatives around us like that? Baffling to say the least. eek

Just wanted you to know, I get this. Really sad but it is our reality for the time being.

What is also sad is other folks who don't know enough or are in denial a lot make life more difficult. They like to invoke guilt trips and it is just frustratingly annoying. What a combination, right?

How does it play out? Sometimes it means missing funerals or family gatherings/functions. It means not having to see my father walk into my mom's sister's funeral again thinking his magic pocket containing an envelop with $$$ is ticket into a funeral he was asked NOT to attend. Or maybe it keeps me away from an uncle's funeral (father's older brother) since I don't get notifications of these important events (I learn about them from people in other places).

It's a sad reality that some of us or maybe many of us have to live with. I have come to the conclusion that whilest it isn't my fault, it isn't my guilt to carry either.

I'm sad but not overwhelmed. I hurt but not enough to bring me down. I'm disappointed but not surprised.

I am glad my mom and grandmothers are not here to witness all this dysfunction. They would be highly disappointed and probably quite upset, I know my grandmothers would be.

Thanks for sharing and know you are not alone.

Hugz to you both,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 12/31/16 11:16 PM

Hey, Orchid.

I know I'm still new at serious recovery. I feel very confused at my own feelings. I never got to hate stage - angry as heck, yes - but I still don't hate the guy.

you must understand, your FWS took you through the gables.

Did you ever hate him?

Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/01/17 12:53 AM

I despise my STBX for what he did to my kids, and what he is still doing to them. He acts like the victim, but the consequences are all from his own pathetic choices. I don't hate him fully, but I do feel sorry for him.

I imagine your XH also behaves like he's the victim, even though he's not. He's still a self-absorbed jerk to your girls. Nothing has really changed for him. I also doubt he will ever come to feel empathy for you or your girls. But all of that is on him. Those are his choices and his consequences.

Despite what has happened to you and others like us, if I let bitterness and anger take over my life, I'll be letting my STBX win. I'll be freely giving control of my thoughts and actions over to an abusive jerk who abandoned his family. I have to let go of my frustrations. I have to let go instead of wanting to control the outcome. It doesn't mean it is easier for me. But this is part of my acceptance stage; yeah, he's really gone. Yes, he stole tens of thousands of dollars. Yes, he lied to my parents, other family members, my friends, and even to my pastor. Yes, he has tried to destroy my life repeatedly for years. In fact, I didn't know half of the planned destruction until after he had moved out!

You are probably in much the same boat that I am in. You deserve to have a life where you are happy, joyful, and loved and adored by a trustworthy and honorable man. You deserve to have peace. I also agree that good things are in your future. You are so talented and driven. You have immense compassion for others around you, and you truly care about your students.

Hugs for you at this tough time. You have worked very hard during the past few years. Maybe 2017 is your year of healing and peace.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/01/17 01:57 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Hey, Orchid.

I know I'm still new at serious recovery. I feel very confused at my own feelings. I never got to hate stage - angry as heck, yes - but I still don't hate the guy.

you must understand, your FWS took you through the gables.

Did you ever hate him?


Those stages take time and each situation runs differently. You and your Xh will process this differently.

Yes, mine took me through the ringer and back several times.

Here's the thing, I'm not a type of person to hate the good in folks but I do hate the bad in them. Is that difficult? Yes, what my H gets from me now is both. It confuses him because he insists on holding onto that bad guy and every so often that bad guy shows up. I have to let that 'bad guy' know he is not wanted or welcomed in our home and so H gets to decide if he eats/sleeps in or out. If he lives in or out.

See it is no longer my choice to dictate it to him. Remember the we don't control the other mantra? Well it finally sank in. Couple that with my boundaries and guess who feels the brunt of it now? Yep, him.

It is awkward at first and it is still in process since that bad guy is rooted deep. Way past the A and it's ugly entrails.

Both my son and I don't put up with his antics. As a result there are times where he has to get his own meals, wash his own clothes, pick up after his own messes and answer to others (in addition to us) when he messes (like with our property manager who likes us but has to enforce her rules).

Will the day come when he is out on his own? Probably. More likely than not. It will be as a result of his choice and he knows this. Still he clings to that which made him a WS. Crazy? Yes. Does he know he is crazy like that? Yes. It makes him sad and angry but now he gets to keep that anger to himself. Will it eat up his soul? It has and it could continue to do so but again, his choice.

Our family (son & I) realize we can't prevent him from making such poor choices but we also realize we don't need to allow his poor choices to disrupt our lives. So in time, this to shall be resolved.

I share this with you so you can see how to let go. For me d/d was in 2000 and the A ended in 2003, almost 4 years end to end not 3. I was told recovery could take 3 - 4 times as long. That would be somewheres between 12 - 16 years. It's been 13 years. I still feel like recovery is in process but the goal has shifted.

Your goals have shifted as well and will continue to do so. Embrace the change, don't shy away from it. You have made good strides on moving forward that are serving as an example to many, especially at MA. Doesn't mean you won't have down days or periods of time but if you truly give it a good looking back, you will find your progress is outstanding. smile

Hugz,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/01/17 03:33 AM

... but the stages of grief? Anger is one of the 5. I don't think I'll get to acceptance until I embrace this. grrrrrrrrrr.... the self beating up goes on.

I know - forgive, forget, >kumbya and all that c**p.

My brain won't hold him accountable.... ooooooop. zinger.
>bingo.
My heart won't hold him personally accountable. Wants to blame the "fog..."
My memories won't hold him accountable.

That has nothing to do with xh actions - it has 100% to do with me.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/01/17 03:35 AM

Blair:
You always have the nicest most sympathetic posts. Thank you.

Don't you try to puzzle out why?
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/01/17 03:46 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
... but the stages of grief? Anger is one of the 5. I don't think I'll get to acceptance until I embrace this. grrrrrrrrrr.... the self beating up goes on.

I know - forgive, forget, >kumbya and all that c**p.

My brain won't hold him accountable.... ooooooop. zinger.
>bingo.
My heart won't hold him personally accountable. Wants to blame the "fog..."
My memories won't hold him accountable.

That has nothing to do with xh actions - it has 100% to do with me.


Listen up my dear WUD,

U R correct it is 100% to do with you because you can only control you.
You will get through the stages but you may not be ready yet to embrace acceptance.

Too many think anger is more physical. I believe it is more internal. It's the kind of anger that makes us turn the corner. It isn't about hotheadedness. The kind of anger that makes changes. It is a guiding type of anger that works better with control instead of uncontrolled.

WUD you are embarking on a journey that you have already been on. The path ahead isn't as hard or winding as what you have already traveled.

Know that those stages are still in play and you are closer to resolution than before

You can do this. You've got us. smile

Orchid
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/01/17 08:31 AM

Regardless of the "fog" or drugs or alcohol or whatever, your XH made poor choices that resulted in extreme pain for you and your girls. His choices will affect your children in their future and how/what they choose to do (or not do) in all of their future relationships. XH does not get a free pass because of the "fog" explanation. If he ever wanted to repair the damage, he would have to own his choices in full and make massive changes to correct his behavior and to apologize, and then spend the rest of his life making it better/right.

Also, you do not have to forget to adequately forgive. If you forget the pain and hurt and the lesson, you may have to re-learn that lesson later on. Do not forget what your $*h!%ץ@ XH did to you and your girls. But you can let go of the pain. You can forgive yourself for being with someone who would do those horrible things. Forgive yourself for tolerating him for so long. Forgive yourself for inadvertently being taken advantage of by your XH simply because of the goodness of your heart.

The other thing I wanted to mention is that I will never understand the WHY question/answer, even if STBX ever tried to explain. His answer would never make any sense to me. I will never be able to comprehend how someone could deliberately try to destroy their spouse and the mother of their children. I cannot understand the selfish WH mentality of hurting their kids either. His "why" doesn't matter and holds zero credibility. Spending any time trying to figure it out would not be a good use of my time because it is giving STBX way too much head space that he doesn't deserve. There is no free head space; letting him be in my thoughts too much costs ME. This is why I wish you to find peace and healing.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/01/17 10:01 PM

Know what I hate? Mitering trim/crown. Especially in an old house. How can a bathroom take up so much TIME? I did pretty good on the corners, all things considered.
Since this was cosmetic and low on the list I'm sorta just "futzin".
The former owner (aka menace to home owning society) had, get this Spray can brown/tan/black fleckle paint on the trim boards. 'Probably thought he was a design genius and it looked good. He even put some of that on the tub side (Hello? that's not a wall.)

Offended my very eyes....
I did the skip coat, re plastered the ceiling/new fan, but the crown was just a way to even up the wobbly edges. Way to go "menace" - the rest of the house is pretty true....
On the sink wall I put a vintage thick upper, 3" crown on the other 3 sides. Painted white, looks ok - still have caulking and touch ups...
Removed and reset the door jamb and window, sanded, painted..
for the base I put in 5" baseboard the looks a bit like the vintage top piece.

By now, I should have just ripped out the damn tub and put in new/surround.
(Nah, I want to wait. When I redo the tub, floor, I"m going to put a penny floor in. I think they look so cool in this style house especially if you use aged pennies to create a motif.)
I gave my painter brother all the wiring tools for trade hours to do this - (it would take him 1/3 the time and it would look professional. After 2 months - waited long enough.

As far as headspace:
I find a lot of BS tend to be fixers. Not all, not everyone - but the vast majority.

It is a natural fit for a "fixer" to try to reason out/explain what happened. Even though I know enough about affairs/depression/cluster b's to satisfy , closely enough what happened, I still want to know how he could do this to ME?

Fool's folly, I'm sure.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/01/17 10:53 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
......As far as headspace:
I find a lot of BS tend to be fixers. Not all, not everyone - but the vast majority.

It is a natural fit for a "fixer" to try to reason out/explain what happened. Even though I know enough about affairs/depression/cluster b's to satisfy , closely enough what happened, I still want to know how he could do this to ME?

Fool's folly, I'm sure.


You are correct. Most BS tend to be fixers because often they are givers as well.

Since being a WS is highly dependent on being selfish (aka: basic requirement), being a taker is for many a tendency that has been embedded in their persona. Not always but often.

My H for instance by all accounts appears to be a generous man. He gives discounts to his clients, helps out his family (multiple house clean ups for his parents - 30 yard size), volunteers, thoughtful to the elderly, etc. Looks good? Well, his folly is that he is hard on his family. Yea......we get ignored. Not just a little, most of the time. I haven't had a anniversary in over 6 years. Son doesn't get son/dad time at all. H says he doesn't know how. More like doesn't care. Yes, the WSness is strong with this one, despite what others think and think they see.

My father, another prime example. So much so I had people arguing with me that I must be wrong because they couldn't imagine a good man could be an abusing H and parent and grandparent (to his only grandchild).

I can't make this stuff up, it hurts to much and I don't have that kind of an evil heart. Yet, if I don't acknowledge it, I'll be in more pain and greater trouble down the road.

So a while back (quite a while), I learned that the giver in me had to be rebalanced with my taker. I don't need much but I also shouldn't be doing more than what is fair.

I have made it my mission to improve folks who are needy and give them less. Yep, it works. Takes a while because some of these folks are stubborn and think if they don't do their stuff (aka: laundry, cleaning, etc.) I'll do it for them. Nope......H can do his own laundry (because being gracious hurts his mouth). So last week he tried to get me to do his laundry (as I'm doing all the other loads of laundry). Mentions something about needing shirts. Hm......he has more shirts than hangers, I tell him. He grumbles about wanting to find more shirts. Y? Because he has a hamper that is full of 14 days worth of shirts. I wash every week but he seems to think if he lets his hamper get full, I'll get fed up and do his laundry for him.

Well it does irk me but I'm patient........ I have to walk by that hamper and just make sure it doesn't get in my way (all those overflowing shirts). Eventually, he washes his clothes. Yep....... he can do it.

I know it may seem minor and maybe offend some but you have to realize that I'm dealing with a known denier who still things trying to enable me into doing his own stuff for him is his job. It isn't. I quit that job a while back and won't be applying for it again.

WUD, you have avoided that face to face daily contact with your XH. Know that you are in better straits as a result.

But your question is 'how could he do this to YOU? Jmo, he did it because he could.

Y? Because once a BS makes their personal improvements or maybe realize they were ok all along, the WS can no longer blame the BS and family and get away with it. But he is still a WS so he can't just switch that off. So like you see in the example above, those deep seated character traits take time to yank out completed. Like a bad weed that entangles it's roots around the other good plants.

This illustration is so good that a great man once used the illustration of the 'wheat and the weeds'. It wasn't any weed, it was a type of weed (c/b tares plant) that often grows inside of a wheat field, looks similar to a wheat plant and harvesting is difficult as a result.

The interesting thing is that in those times, the wheat harvesters could easily identify the weed because it stood straight up. But pulling the weed out was difficult because they couldn't damage the wheat stalks which still needed to grow.

Such is the intertwining of life for us when we deal with a WS. The longer the time together and harder it can be. So much is linked along with the memories that a BS will find it quite hard to cut off contact and move forward.

Those are words easier said than done but in time, it can be.

So for now WUD, know his A or WSness isn't about you. He did it to you and your family because he can. He will continue to act in a selfish manner, because he can. One day he may figure out it wasn't worth it but he can't undo what he has done. That will be his burden to carry and his guilt to bare.

Your question is troubling your heart, yet I believe you know this answer but your heart isn't ready for the truth yet.

Patience, it will be.

Take care,
Orchid
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/01/17 11:18 PM

T/J: I'm totally jealous that you are working on crown moulding! If I was closer, I'd bring my miter saws and be right over!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/02/17 03:16 AM

Blair:
and I'd let you!!!! yuck! warped walls... >complain, complain. At least I got to use my brad nailer...thats always fun. smile Top coat of Alkyd.... quick caulk line - touch up.

Finally got it all put back together! I was worried about details, I worry about it looking too "homeowner done" sometimes - there is a fine line between shabby chic and shabby... but the overall effect is really nice.

I can finally call that project done!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/06/17 04:26 AM

Well, I don't know if this is a good or bad sign....
Since I now know "the realz" about xh new house - I have tried hard to put it out of my mind.

Sister had emergency surgery (2x) at the only hospital in that town. I had to at some point, drive over there to visit with art supplies. Even though I thought it was going to be triggery for me, I could not put it off any longer. Yesterday I went.

That entire area is very low, almost wetland - lots of lakes, boggs and run offs. The roads are laid out like cooked noodles, and most houses are old, tiny, not cared for - but HUGE new sub division type houses here and there. Like the haves/have nots...
I'd never consider it.

So, my only thought was; "I'd not like a huge showy place, in the middle of a swamp". Put my feelings and thoughts together perfectly. Shrugged, went on my way... visited, didn't think twice about it. Until now.

Very happy for my artsy fartsy community, small house - with 1/3 equity smile smile smile
BIG ice festival going on - currently sculpting like crazy down there getting ready... Just took down 100 charity/memorial Christmas trees - next to the menorah next to a creche, next to a snowman... great place to be.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/06/17 06:23 AM

Very good on your thinking! You didn't trigger, just shrugged it off, didn't think twice and kept on going.

I agree with you about not preferrring to live on/in a swamp, nno matter what the house looks like.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/06/17 06:25 AM

And I'm soory to hear about your sister. Sending good thoughts for quick healing.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/06/17 11:44 AM

XH has to live somewhere and his house is just a place to dwell. You have a home. smile

Sorry to hear about your sister, sending positive thoughts your way. smile

It is good you are able to work past potential triggers. Keep up the good work. thumbsup

Hugz,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/06/17 02:14 PM

Its the best result to an awkward situation, really. Only awkward for me!

Sister is not doing well, at all. She's got such a host of problems, diabetes, arthritis - you name it -- >sigh.

My other friend, "bestie" for years - is looking a lot better. She had the flu over holidays, her Parkinson's symptoms were really obvious. I was worried.

Yesterday she looked much better. She is elderly, has old fashioned values, and she likes, but social media sometimes confuses or annoys her -- She was distraught that xh, after 2.5 years - got on her FB wall and started "liking" her stuff. She didn't realize he could even do that.

> Yippie for me, I asked her not to tell me any details. My girls see her more like a grandmother, maybe he trolled her page to see pictures of them?

She finds him absolutely deplorable, kind of offended that he would even try to communicate with her.
Very old school...




Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/12/17 12:49 AM

No good deed goes unpunished.
Found an elderly friend a slab of brecha sarda marble. She wanted it cut into shelves. Got one on craigslist - she loves the color. Plus, there is enough left over to make another shelf.

Negotiated with my old marble house - they cut as a favor smile . Went to drop it off - in my old town. Still feels like a punch in the guts.
I don't get it. I was so disrespected, I deserved so much better treatment.... what is wrong with me?

Someone put a FB post up that said; "If my absence in your life means nothing.. then my presence in it did not either."
The flip side of that; XH presence DID mean much to my life... so losing it is going to be great loss, too. yuck. I'm sick of listening to myself...

How can I, someone so proud of my accomplishments, so confident, take such disrespect from a person and still miss them? I amaze myself.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/12/17 01:17 AM

Because XH meant something to YOU speaks about YOU and how much YOU value and care for other people.

I really like your marble shelf idea. I might have to negotiate with a friend for one of those too! smile
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/12/17 01:56 AM

Your ego is always going to be your most precious - and vulnerable - possession. It's our most basic primeval need - to be wanted, admired, desired, trusted, chased. It affects every single thing we do. The trick is to rise above it.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/12/17 05:03 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
.....Someone put a FB post up that said; "If my absence in your life means nothing.. then my presence in it did not either."
The flip side of that; XH presence DID mean much to my life... so losing it is going to be great loss, too. yuck. I'm sick of listening to myself...

How can I, someone so proud of my accomplishments, so confident, take such disrespect from a person and still miss them? I amaze myself.


There's another saying...... familiarity breeds contempt.

proverb
extensive knowledge of or close association with someone or something leads to a loss of respect for them or it.

Since you are not there yet, then may be he wasn't that familiar. wink ......you need more time.

I'd vote for the later.
Posted By: believer

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/12/17 05:19 AM

"If my absence in your life means nothing.. then my presence in it did not either."

You'll need to spend some time rethinking that, WUD.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/12/17 02:45 PM

Thank you for the food for thought.

I was researching this, talking to psychologist and new friend who is a counselor (albeit alcohol and drugs are her "area") - and I found info that;
#1. For most, recovery doesn't even start until after divorce is final. In my case, I'd agree with that.

#2. Post divorce, and in line with other traumatic events, most people claim recovery taking 3 - 4 years. The 5th year "happiness" levels out.
It also pointed out that most people have a natural happiness-o-meter that the body resets to after so much time. Most claim recovery levels off at 5 years, most report happiness levels "resetting" to prior trauma level.

This makes me hopeful and angry too.
According to this, I'm only about 15 months into a multi year natural recovery process... that is comforting and discouraging.

And that I will return to a happiness level that I was "set at" before. Historically, I am usually an extremely positive person, - 9 out of 10 - happy with my lot, so to speak. I welcome returning to that norm. even an 7.5 - 8!!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/12/17 02:49 PM

"How can I, someone so proud of my accomplishments, so confident, take such disrespect from a person and still miss them? I amaze myself."

This reads arrogant. I meant that I am amazed that I still feel a loss for a person who really was abusive to me.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/12/17 03:12 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
"How can I, someone so proud of my accomplishments, so confident, take such disrespect from a person and still miss them? I amaze myself."

This reads arrogant. I meant that I am amazed that I still feel a loss for a person who really was abusive to me.


I understood what you meant. smile
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/12/17 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: SmilingWife
I understood what you meant. smile


Me 2. wink

See, I already knew you are pretty amazing so just to be amazing in another area was a no brainer for me. smile

Hugz,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/13/17 12:22 PM

"That's why I'm calling all my ravers, best-in-candy flavors
Calling all my hipsters too cool to be my listeners
Calling all the scenesters with ironic t-shirts
"Say no to drugs", "Gay for pay" and "Free Justin Bieber"

"Excuse me, who are you? Excuse me, who are you?"
I am the conductor, the beat is your instructor
All aboard!
Get on that party train
."

So.. I went to a meet up group roller skating last night.
(^^^ Like any of us 40-50's know who Redfoo is.. Sheesh...)

Good news is, I did not die. I think a few of the others may have, though. Just one or two.
Was very good mild exercise, better than staying in.

Then tonight, I'm buying a vintage professional Santa Claus costume that was originally sewn for a 6' 300 lb. Santa. So cool, even has a fur lined velvet santa toy bag.
I plan to use it as entryway decoration next holiday. Should fit the house perfectly.

wink But I know a few elementary schools that could borrow it. (Yes, we still "do" Santa here in MI.) Actually the Jr. High puts Santa in the pageant every year...(? light )
Posted By: Oblivious2678

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/13/17 04:05 PM

I love your energy.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/16/17 03:43 PM

I agree with Blair. You missing exWS shows your good character. His not missing you shows his inner emptiness.

If it helps, I can say from experience that your love for him can be very real even if his love for you was false. My wife and I have flipped from one side of that to the other over the course of our marriage. The love is real when we feel it, even if the person we love is only pretending to reciprocate.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/16/17 09:54 PM

Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
I agree with Blair. You missing exWS shows your good character. His not missing you shows his inner emptiness........


Interesting observation, inner emptiness.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/17/17 12:47 AM

hehehehe. Went bowling- same group. Really did poorly. Talked to a few people about rollerskating the night before, got on the topic of the music..

Found out who Redfoo really is. Besides that he's the wrapper in "I'm sexy and I know it., He is Barry Gordy's (Hitsville, Mowtown Records) son.

The Barry Gordon mansion was just listed for sale (curbed Detroit). I was going to tour that place! They are doing a major expansion of Hitsville - how interesting to see things grow here in D Twoit.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/17/17 12:54 AM

I am just a "fountain of youth" well of useless information.

Just settled my seat/hotel for Washington D.C. Friday - Sunday. Look for me on the TV, ok?. Hope I don't get into trouble, since my DD23 WHITE COAT ceremony is a week from Saturday -- won't due to be arraigned that day.

Now, where am I going to get dozens of pro positive signs? Oh, yes! I forgot what I do for a living....
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/17/17 02:54 AM

You go, girl!!! Bowling AND Rollerskating?!? Whether done with skill (or a lack of grace) or simply a lot of laughing and enjoyment, it sounds like a load of fun. Good for you!
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/17/17 08:32 PM

What's your sign going to say? Maybe we can find you that way?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/17/17 10:55 PM

Oh, good Lawd! I will be an ant on Capital Hill!
Actually I painted Rosie the Riveter as a white/blue,/lt blue/red color separation (like Obamas HOPE poster) and instead of "We can do it!"
I'm writing "NOT amused."

I'm right by Willow Run Airport, made famous by WWII foundry workers like Rosie.
She is still alive today, I'm sure dumbfounded by the backwards slide women will take with the incoming admin...
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/18/17 01:18 AM

WuD: This is not solely about men vs women. Some people voted on abortion or building a wall or enacting tariffs or lowering taxes or reducing regulation. Even if we all agreed that Trump is anti-women (which not everyone agrees is true) that does not mean that every woman is obliged to vote based on that issue. One beauty of democracy is that every voter is entitled to decide for themselves which issue or issues to make their highest priority. Some voters decided to base their vote on some issue other than Trump's view toward women. That is their right under the Constitution. They are not obliged to vote based on the issue that you feel is most important. Thank goodness that none of us is obliged to vote based on someone else's subjective view of priority.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/18/17 01:29 AM

So I'll watch for a Rosie the Riverter sign and know that the soul holding it up is our WUD. smile
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/18/17 01:08 PM

I'm so excited for you! YD and I are going to the rally down here, I forgot about making a poster, thanks for the reminder in time :-)
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/19/17 09:20 AM

The walk is about fear of removal of rights. Rights of men and women, gays, children, poor and disabled.

It's not the person, it's the policy and the ongoing legal ramifications of the undoing of years of rights people fought and made great sacrifice for.

Obviously, you can purchase a "seat at this table" with donor dollars ">cough<, hello DeVos, you complete ignoramus"<... I'm helping to buying MY seat, too. With a collective voice. By making noise and pointing out injustice I see.

I don't need nor want many of the things that I "walk" for. I have a good job, health ins. already had my kids - who were educated well - and on their way...
I protest for beliefs..

I believe that makes me a patriot.

Yesterday I stood at Diego's mural at the DIA and spoke to 90 students about the struggle the workers faced then. Today, 86 years later - we are facing same issues. Is that progress?
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/19/17 09:45 AM

Wud,

I believe it makes you a great person with a good voice and the right words.

I admire your care and spirit. smile

Hugz,
Orchid
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/19/17 12:42 PM

WuD I am going to the rally here not so much from fear, because I may be another head in the sand democrat but I think the tables have flipped here already, that DT's win in this state was enough to wake us up already. I'm rallying in gratitude that we woke up in time to keep watch and guard Medicare, social security, healthcare, wic, early childhood education, support for immigrant refugees, all of it.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/20/17 02:29 AM

aaaaaaaaaaaand now the National Endowment for the Arts is gone. BUT we got 50 billion for a wall...

I'm ashamed of my high school contacts on FB. The fist pumping "praise Jesus!" stuff is appalling. But, these are the same people who would try to still tell racist jokes to you {because they think since your white you want to hear them.}

I wish it was not so polarized. They act like the worst stereotype of a Republican supporter.
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/20/17 03:39 PM

WuD I'm so sorry. We'll keep fighting!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/22/17 04:30 AM

Washington was wild today!!! Something I'll never see again, if I'm lucky.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/22/17 05:01 AM

It sure was.....I was watching it and they showed clips from WA to LA, NY to Chicago and even the Antartica, plus Paris. You guys were all over the da' place. thumbsup

Btw, did you know that there was more at the inaug than on your march? Yea, I didn't know that either.....it sure didn't look like but evidently there was this thing about a white cover on the lawn making it look like less people at the inaug vs you all just were all over the place. LOL!!!!! U gals and guys numbered collectively in the millions.....all over the world.

I looked hard for the Rosie poster........thought I saw one but it wasn't you.

Wow......it was breathe-taking to watch.

Glad u r back safe and sound. highfive

Take care,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/22/17 05:49 AM

In hotel again. Long drive home tomorrow. Washington is a sad place for me, I have two siblings in Arlington. Thought about brother quite a bit today... he would have hated this!
Know what? Besides feeling very "lonely in the crowd" for my old family, we would have loved this activity together years ago, I saw something that made my spirits soar. I saw men.
Men walking with daughters, wives, nasty women and husbands and friends. Liberal, I imagine, well presented, humorous - kowabunga! Need to polish up my resume and git me one of 'dem. So many middle aged white men around where I'm from are fans of the "Don", I was seriously considering shuttering my online profile. Sad!

I'm here with 3 women, two are killing me, Smalls. Who reads every sign going down the road? Who argues with the GPS? Who talks about bodily functions out loud?!?!? Still had a great time, once I got a little space.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/22/17 07:42 AM

It was interesting how people bonded on planes, trains and during the walk. smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 02:53 AM

Now home. Eight hour ride, had a really good time over the weekend.
Chipped in my share ($900 FOR 2 NIGHTS AT A QUALITY INN?????) and rolled with everything.

Got home to DD20 relaxing. I talked about trip, uncle {brother buried at Arlington} and "old dad" and our family trips out there. She saw how emotional the entire trip was for me, it really was something to be in the center of that mob! - and she vented a little bit about her dad.

Even though he talks about being upset that she won't talk to him, he refused to apologize to her for anything he did. (Way to go! Show no empathy for her or what she went through for almost 3 years now.)

They talked about "life", actually sounds like he pumped her for info - but the stickler was, again, the stupid car. She jumped him about taking it away from her, he stuck to his old story about how it was not her car but it was marital property.

She just got up and left. How fracking painful for her. No wonder she refused to talk about it, until now. Here I thought they were possibly communicating -
I don't think so.

He has not acquired any social skills, either. So I tried to listen without adding too much comment.

Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 04:36 AM

Glad u made it home safe. Wow.....hotels really jacked up the rates, eh? Hmmmm......

Would like to hear more about your march and trip.

Glad your daughter opened up a bit. It takes time. Maybe more will come.

Your girls know what their mom is made up of. smile

Get some rest. You certainly deserve it.

Take care,
Orchid
Posted By: DBeedone

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 05:47 AM

I walked at the Seattle walk but had several friends fly to D.C. I found the walk inspiring, exhilarating and refreshing. It was wonderful to be around so many like minded people. And yes, seeing the men out there with their supportive signs like "men of quality don't fear equality for women". Something to remember when I'm ready to date again. I spend 25 years looking for that from my soon to be X.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 11:05 AM

Way to be an active participant in the DC walk! I'm sad your DD is still struggling with her father's nonsensical thinking and (still) blame.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 12:42 PM

Again. I can only control what I can, myself and the atmosphere inside my home.

Trying to be supportive and trying to give her enough space is not as easy as it sounds. She is not around much, but that is a normal for her age/school/job. I'm just trying to be empathetic. NO one wants to accept the fact that your father would put material things over you. It would be a bitter pill.

She needs to stick to her guns, not be gaslighted by him, hopefully they can come together in the future.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 03:38 PM

Which is worse, that he puts material things over his kids or that he puts his relationship with his new woman over them? And over their mother. The material things likely is not about the things but that the things he can buy are part of what attracts OW to him.

Had a fight with Mrs. H yesterday. She wanted to discuss an event she is going to with her work friends. She complained that they have less money than her so they want to go to the less expensive part of this travel expo and she wants to go to the fancier part. I looked at her like she was crazy and said "after you just spent 2.5 months on a series of vacations, and given how much credit card debt we have, can't you just spend the time with your work friends and stay away from the expensive things that we can't afford anyway?" She said she agrees with my underlying message but she disliked my angry tone. I apologized for the tone. She was cold and snippy all day. If I ever lose her to another man, it will be because he can afford the expensive trips that I can't afford. If he has children from a previous relationship and does not have unlimited funds, he would have to shortchange his kids to keep Mrs. H. If he thought Mrs. H worth keeping, I can see how he would be tempted to shortchange his kids. Especially if they are grown and he can rationalize that they should be self-supporting by their ages. Not that I think your DD20 should be self-supporting. My kids are the same ages as yours and I currently support them both. But I can see how a guy would convince himself of that so he could keep spending money on his romantic partner.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 04:25 PM

Hold I have to process this. >more later.

I paid my water bill, 2 middle aged men were there. One paying taxes, another collecting. One guy " better pay this now. I have a wedding coming up AND tuition."

The other; "I had TWO weddings a summer ago!" Moaning and groaning, but they were also obviously very proud of their respective situations.
I don't know how ANY man can ignore his daughter. Especially the two rare birds we got.

DD23 is getting her white coat Friday in a ceremony.
Me. I have a doctor in the family.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 04:56 PM

WUD,

You know as well as I do there are a lot of different kinds of men out there.

And some of em? Well they just ain't so great. And yeah, it really sucks when you spend a lot of years with eyes blind to the fact that plants you've been carefully tending in what you thought was a lovely garden were actually WEEDS all along.

I'm right there with you on that. I've done the same exact thing. There are amazing, wonderful roses and orchids and herbs out there. Fancy shrubs and vines, incredible fruit trees and vegetables. But I've been putting my effort into what in fact is a noxious weed. Everyone else can actually SEE it's a weed. It's embarrassing and I feel very stupid. But no amount of me beating myself up, or fretting over it is going to change it. It's always gonna be a weed. <sigh>
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 05:30 PM

Congrats on DD23 and her white coat. World needs more doctors.

Miranda: that is so apt. When we bought our first house I carefully tended a plant in our garden, only to find out it was ragweed when it triggered allergic reactions in both my kids!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 05:31 PM

I'm a "never give upper". My sister has been extremely bi polar her entire life. Enormous swings. Never held a job. Never finishes a project. (opposite of me, basically.)
She is also extremely dishonest (her values swing with what stunt she just pulled last.)

Even though I don't talk to her at this time (have blocked her from social media.) I still have hope they will design or find the treatment medications/combo that is going to work for her.

When she is leveled out, she is a good person. They say the symptoms abate with age.

I should have shown her the door permanently, decades ago.
Posted By: TC_Manhattan

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 05:31 PM

Miranda, your weed is a thistle.
The thorns are deadly vicious..
hug
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 05:50 PM

Had a fight with Mrs. H yesterday. She wanted to discuss an event she is going to with her work friends. She complained that they have less money than her so they want to go to the less expensive part of this travel expo and she wants to go to the fancier part. I looked at her like she was crazy and said "after you just spent 2.5 months on a series of vacations, and given how much credit card debt we have, can't you just spend the time with your work friends and stay away from the expensive things that we can't afford anyway?" She said she agrees with my underlying message but she disliked my angry tone. I apologized for the tone. She was cold and snippy all day. If I ever lose her to another man, it will be because he can afford the expensive trips that I can't afford. If he has children from a previous relationship and does not have unlimited funds, he would have to shortchange his kids to keep Mrs. H. If he thought Mrs. H worth keeping, I can see how he would be tempted to shortchange his kids. Especially if they are grown and he can rationalize that they should be self-supporting by their ages. Not that I think your DD20 should be self-supporting. My kids are the same ages as yours and I currently support them both. But I can see how a guy would convince himself of that so he could keep spending money on his romantic partner.

According to the paralegal at my attorneys office, men "forget" they have children all the time. Before everyone comments "women abandon their kids, too!", -- I know from this website that women certainly do, too.

Why did you jump to the analogy of Mrs. Hold going with another?
It may be an accurate description in that case, but I just wondered, why that scenario?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 05:52 PM

Has anyone heard from Cajun Rose lately?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 05:59 PM

Hold- I know little of my OW - but I'm certain the money was the main attraction. She wanted and got my life. He's going to have to keep shoveling if he wants that "rock star" treatment, I imagine.
-- But she never got "my husband". I don't know that dirt bag she's with today. If they are together, more power to them.

I was always the "this is how to fix this" person in my marriage. I wonder how many years I did this? {As far as referee him and the kids. He couldn't STAND "teenager mouth".}

I know I could tell him how to fix this. But I know "grown up people do not need to be told how to act." and I would seriously feel bad if I triangulated and manipulated this relationship. She has to learn how to deal with him.

I still can't believe it.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 06:03 PM

By the "forgetting kids" line. I had a student a few years ago who was a pain in the arse to deal with. I LOVED her older sister, (the girl I painted her house for earlier this year.)

One day the elder said to me - "Dad took new girlfriend and her 4 kids to Cedar Point today and didn't even invite my little sister to go with. She waited days for the invite."
Apparently girlfriend was posting "big happy family" pictures all over social media - that little sister saw.

--That immediately explained some of the anger at school.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 07:10 PM

I've realized over time that there's a part of me that LIKES difficult. Even my dog is difficult. lol.

I mean, you see his little face there? He's got an amazing face, must be easy to love right? No... not at all. #1, Basenjis are rare because they are HARD to raise. Most folks aren't cut out for it. They are willful, independent, and smart as hell plus manipulative. AND they can be aggressive too. So you can't train them in the usual way, and swat them when they get out of line, because they will get super hostile in zero flat, and STILL not do what you want.

We have two of these little stinkers in the house, and THIS one right here? He's my love. The other one? She's super sweet, super mellow, easy as pie. I don't really like her that much. I mean I LIKE her, but she's not my heart and soul.

This one? He's whip smart, manipulative, cunning, and high maintenance. I'm crazy for him. Because training him, working with him, doing stuff with him, it's a real victory. There's a challenge there. It's REWARDING. And I get off on that. I find it meaningful.

I get up in the middle of the night and cover his ass up with a blanket. Because if he wakes up and gets a drink of water, he's uncovered, and he finds it unacceptable, and he comes to my side of the bed and scratches at it until I get up! I mean he's a complete son of a b*%^&, lol. I have to get up, fluff up his bed, and tuck his azz in! At 3 am!! I don't mind, I luv him.

crazy basturd can't have a gap in the food dish, if he can see the bottom of the bowl at any point, he freaks straight the hell out! I get up and put food in even if there's food still in the bowl, or shuffle it around so he can't see a "hole," and I don't mind, because I luv him.

There's a zillion batshinola things like this. I'm just nutz.
Posted By: TC_Manhattan

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 09:27 PM

Hey Miranda, that little Basenji face you're referring to looks like a hamster with boobs. razz
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/23/17 09:44 PM

Oh shoot, I changed it, didn't I?

I forgot about that. How about this???

Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/24/17 12:03 AM

I sure get a kick out of your thread, WuD! Thanks for letting me tag along. smile
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/24/17 02:53 AM

WuD: I keep telling you, the husband you thought you had never existed. He pretended to be that guy as long as he could because he wanted to stay with you. Until he couldn't pretend any longer. Or until he no longer wanted to stay with you. Because he found someone he could pretend with in a different, easier way. Not because she is "better" than you. But precisely because she is less than you. You are great. Hard to keep up with great. Easier to keep up with less than great. Easier to be accepted as "enough" by less than great. Hard work to do enough to deserve you. Much easier to do enough to be worthy of someone less amazing. Doesn't make it easier to be discarded. But perhaps gives you insight into why someone might choose to take the easier path. And why someone who made that choice might find themselves obliged to make unwelcome choices to stay on that path. Once you accept that he was too weak to continue to invest the effort required to keep up with you, might be easier to accept that all of his choices will arise from weakness rather than from strength, integrity and decency. Once a person decides to compromise their values, it is easier and easier to keep compromising and more and more painful to keep to those that remain.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/24/17 02:01 PM

I kind of had an idea that I am too much to keep up with.

xh often complained that I was always doing something. Got that trait directly from my grandmother. She never stopped. But in my defense, after I did all the promoting, setting up, he bought in and helped, and often claimed what a good idea/time/worthy effort it was.

Sucking up (like attention from your pet dog) is different from disdain (like ZERO attention from your pet cat.) My xh thought he liked cats, but really, he wanted a dog.

After about 6 months, I knew he could never really come back, because he couldn't look me in the eye, nor admit the truth behind his "dalliances". I now know I could have never looked the other way, not for long, either. I tried for years, with "fiddle sh@t" stupid stunts he pulled.... the spackle didn't work.

Does any true born alpha realize they are alpha? I don't think so, to them it is just life.

Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/24/17 03:08 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
I kind of had an idea that I am too much to keep up with.


Not for everyone, just for him.

There are men who would feel blessed to have a relationship with a woman who is so hard working. So driven. Who has such high standards. Some men would feel great that such a strong accomplished woman finds him worthy of her time. My advice: go find such a man.

Weak men (like me) would be daunted by your example and your level of energy would cause us to feel inadequate. That is not your fault and not for you to resolve. That is our messed up way of thinking and a problem for us to resolve. But weak men like me don't often choose to overcome their flaws. Now that you are more aware of this issue, should not be hard to spot the men who find you overwhelming. Expel them from your life swiftly and mercilessly.
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/24/17 03:51 PM

Hold do you give yourself enough credit? You were very proud of your W when she went back to school and then work, and got back in shape. And encouraging.
Posted By: TC_Manhattan

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/24/17 06:04 PM

I think what Hold is trying to say is that you need to find someone who is worthy of your energy and intelligence, instead of someone who will only suck off your drive.

That is the whole crux of codependency.
Givers and drivers often have been conditioned since early childhood to enable takers to coast off their efforts.
This is a difficult thing to restructure in one's personality, because it had become so familiar for so long.

You are a real whirling dervish, WUD! thumbsup
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/24/17 06:42 PM

That's the point I was trying to make too, kinda. I LIKE difficult, to an extent. I'm driven by the challenge of it. It's natural for me to do more, give more, BE more. It's what I'm good at, what I'm designed for, really.

So by the time I realize that it's badly messed up? I'm way too far in. I've been so busy being all that, AND a bag of chips, and being gratified by the challenge of the whole thing, I've failed to notice how unbalance and wrong the whole thing was.

At least that's my current take on the situation.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/24/17 10:21 PM

I find these comments to be true.

I had a situation I thought was balanced, I got the ideas, he tempered the choices. We both came together - it had great results. It worked, for a long while. Then, it didn't.

I do give people tons of credit. {and trust}. Credit they probably don't deserve.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/24/17 10:44 PM

Do you just jump in and "fill in the gaps" ?

I know I do! I don't mean any harm by it. I just naturally do this. I see a hole, I plug it up. If something needs doing, I do it! I don't sit back and wonder if maybe someone else was going to, or SHOULD do it, or wishes I wouldn't. I figure if they were going to, they'd have done it by now. And then suddenly my people stop doing stuff because "she's going to do it" and no one else even tries.
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/25/17 01:03 AM

What is your list of NOs? Those things that you will end a relationship over? Do you have it printed out?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/25/17 03:19 AM

Miranda - yes.
CP - no.

I do have a list of things I refuse to deal with in a future relationship, though.

While my dog was taking her bathtub soak for allergies, I put a shower cap on her, sunglasses, bath tub brush and pooka beads on her... she fell asleep with all that garbage on her. hahahahahahah.
My kid did remind me to play with the dog tonight.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/25/17 04:56 AM

Sometimes it is easier for someone to walk away in denial, claiming that they are the victim. It is far easier for them to skew their own reality and pretend victimhood because they cannot accept their contribution in any failure. Your XWH cannot handle reality. He walked away, knowing that he wasn't of your same value and work ethic. So he makes his own fake reality up.

Hang in there. Keep putting one foot in front of another. Maybe it is time to find another project to do. smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/25/17 05:44 AM

I need to walk away from memories. This is all my brain doing this to myself. I could really never deal again with xh's disrespect, secrecy and lies. Not anymore. I know it. In memories, it's all good. In reality, he's a skunk and I know it.

So, I'm out of house re hab money, it's winter here, and life is moving on. It's me that looks back, nothing of xh's doing. I have to focus on the future. My future.

I really don't see it as badly as I have since BD. Really, at BD you think life is over... now I have established a new town, house, and lifestyle. I have to work on me. Physical environment is as good as I can have expected, the emotional part is sort of lost.



Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/25/17 12:19 PM

Do u need another house to remodel? Just kidding.

You are at the part of the healing that requires less major changes and more adjustments. This will also be the longer part of your healing and I believe you are a bit unsteady about it.

What you have been through it traumatic and you no longer need to be in that traumatic role but you maybe apprehensive with what is up ahead. What to do? Stick to your plans. Focus on them.

Things will happen around you but you have a plan. It is also not your responsibility to make things happen for all. Your girls are growing up and will bring a new dynamic to your relationship. That may unnerve you a bit but it is also a place where you get step back a bit and be proud of how you have raised them.

They will still need you, just in a different manner. I wish my mom was there for me after I moved out. She was so involved dealing with my dad and sisters selfish issues that she had no strength to even be available. I know she wanted to, she told me so.

Sorry your dog is having allergy issues. I heard about this product called dyno-vite (not sure of the spelling), heard it works good for dogs with skin allergy issues.

take care,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/26/17 02:37 PM

OK Guys.
I have to do something different.
Another night, same thing. Short sleep, have some sort of thought, dream or idea about xh, wake up and have a miserable time going back to sleep. Something has got to change for me.

So, I have decided to break patterns that are not working anymore.
First, cutting diet to more healthy eating, no snacking, gratuitous sugars etc. Garbage in, garbage out don't they say?

Second order, more dedicated physical activity of some kind, daily. {Yuck I hate "exercise". As active as I am, it seems like burning energy for absolutely no reason.}

Next week, going to start painting real art again. Not just copying, mindless color mixing, but expressionist stuff. I find it really hard to do originals. THAT is where my artist friends are most positive.

I have to do something to save myself from the trap of obsessing over old live vs. new. What was, what is, what could have been. I find my mind wandering there all the time. as well with politics, things at school and "stuff".

I can't live anymore obsessing over the past like I have.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/26/17 03:20 PM

Sorry WUD? Btdt.
Posted By: TC_Manhattan

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/26/17 03:31 PM

It will take a concerted effort.
You can do it!
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/26/17 05:56 PM

WUD,

U r at a turning point both physically, mentally and emotionally. It takes a while for those 3 to sync up but at times it does. Plus you may also be going through some physical changes, so go have a visit with your gyn as well.

Memories are precious and knowing when to store them and visit them is important. You have been through traumatic events and still healing. It is to be expected that you feel this way.

Still your journey is to move forward at a pace your mind, heart and soul can handle.

Get a full physical if needed. At our age (you are a bit younger than me), it helps to keep the physical part in shape. smile

Take care,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/26/17 11:10 PM

Well, with DD23 getting her "White Coat" tomorrow, I have been proud, but melancholy for the past week or two.

This means more to me than her wedding. This was years of struggle! She really accomplished something big, here!
{I never dreamt I'd be without her father by my side at this.}

Also, FB posted a picture from 3 years ago - of him and my Forrest cat that died. It still was a punch in the guts...

And this headache for two days has turned into a cold... at least that explains that grumpy, sad feeling.....

...But WuD? Jr. is going to be a resident!!!!! I bought her a lovely watch from Shinola..... driving up to her school tomorrow morning!!!!

bow
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/27/17 12:40 AM

Congrats!!! This is a hard-earned honor for DD23. She has worked very hard. You should be so proud of her (and of your support of/for her too). smile
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/27/17 02:39 AM

Well done Momma. Revel in the reflected glory. She did it but could not have done it without what you did all those years. Both of you can bask in the glory. Scoop the feeling sup by the handful and rub them all over yourself. Both of you deserve it.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/27/17 03:59 AM

Very proud of you and your daughter. To achieve this despite all that has happened. It shows what can be done when one puts their mind to it. thumbsup

Your struggles are paying off.

Good job and more to come.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/27/17 02:18 PM

When these milestones come, and you go to them without a partner, it is naturally hard. You expected to be with your husband for these things. That's what you'd envisioned. I get it. And your subconscious probably does too, I'm betting.

But it's still such an amazing thing, to see her at this point in her life, so don't let that jarring empty spot take anything away from it. Just acknowledge it and turn your head away from it.

I think your plan to attack the future and shove yourself through it's door in three ways is smart. I find exercise mostly unpleasant too, but experiment with lots of different kinds, maybe you can find one you like. I love weight machines as it turns out. And exercise just helps you move better and sleep better and alla that. A creative outlet is excellent. And one where you have a community? Even better! And eating better? ALWAYS a good idea. This is like my first, go to advice to everybody for everything, lol. "so how's your diet?" lol. "What are you eating?" lol. I'm a big believer in functional foods, and nourishing your body and soul. It really helps.

You're doing it right, WUD. You're going places.
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/28/17 11:19 PM

Hi Wud smile

I'm on my phone reading around a bit. Congrats to your daughter and to you!

Imho, you're expecting too much too soon as far as getting through the grieving process. It will take as long as it will take and no amount of kicking yourself for not going faster will make it go faster.

That said, I think you might be farther along than it feels. One of the milemarkers that I can see is that you've separated your process from that of your daughters. That's a significant step. Not that you won't care about their process and the possibility of healing their relationships with their father... it 's just separate effects and separate journeys now.

Keep on going and evaluating along the way and you'll get to where you want to end up. I speak from experience. Just to let you know, every crappy thing your ex did, I could relate to. They can do a lot of things and take a lot of things but they cannot control whether or not we heal from it. My number one goal in recovery was to avoid becoming bitter. What's your top goal for yourself?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/28/17 11:43 PM

Yeah! Nice ceremony. Nice afternoon shopping. DD23 seriously considering her clinical rotation on the Detroit side of the state. Then Hawaii &#128580;. Seems to be jobs there.
Other fun news-
Nephew (the one who cast "this is us".) got a wonderful article written about him in a magazine. Yeah for the next generation.
I don't think I will ever separate my daughters suffering from what I went through. DD 20 opened up much more on the drive over here. #1. Her father is not sorry about one thing he's done #2. It's all about him - he believes she should be the dutiful daughter and respect HIM.
So sad (to just listen and nod) when DD20 says she will never have kids because how horrible the divorce was ON THEM. She would never do that to a kid.
(I have to accept that is how she feels NOW). I told her I loved raising them- never a regret. She will have to process that herself.
I can't tell her her feelings are "wrong". I might feel the same way in her shoes.

Her father has ZERO empathy- zero for either of them. Apparently crying how he's the victim, and some kind of hero for what he did (stand up to be "happy").

I'm glad she finally started talking. It hardened my heart against a sub human who could do such things to his own children without remorse.
It went a long way. Lllllooonnnng way.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/29/17 01:02 AM

Congratulations!!!!!

Will the dr's mom be coming to make house calls on the island? Stop by, ok?

Yes, we are in sore need of doctors out here. Good ones. We don't go the doctor too much but when we do, it's a challenge. Though I must say our little in-store clinics do a pretty good job for your run of the mill maladies.

As for your WSness one, well it will always be about him. I had a rather long call with mine (seemed long). I asked if there was anything else I needed to know before I learn about his stuff from 'other people.' That chosen lack of communication twist that he does so well left me looking a bit stupified in front of our postal carrier who was just today updating her route. Seems the WST put in an address change and didn't think to inform those of us that still live in this house.

Remember, I asked him to tell me anything else I needed to know from him vs piecing things together from OPs. He must be having senior moments at 54 because he couldn't think of any.......much later into the conversation he reveals he only did a name change for mail in his name not in his business name.

Well, that's going to confuse the post office sorting system. What do you do when your name and business name show on the same address label?

He actually couldn't grasp that point. I gave up. He then grumbled that he left because he couldn't stay and be unhappy, that because I told him if I had known then what I know now, I wouldn't have married him.

Sigh.....I agreed, again. That was a no brainer for me. So I RB'd it back to him and asked him would he stay married to someone who treated him like he treated us. Guess what? No response. Ha.......

You know WUD, I'm actually a bit jealous (in a good way, of course). At least you don't have to hear the spew........

He also said I was making a bit deal out of things. I told him, well a lot of little deals turn into big deals after a while.......so this change of address thingy is just one of many little dysfunctional deals. He couldn't even grasp that point.

Sigh.......the fog must be thick over here, or maybe it's the VOG (volcano ash smog).

Sit back and be proud mom, you deserve it. smile

Hugz,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/29/17 01:15 PM

OK. I took one day off social media / news and the world went crazy. What the heck?
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/29/17 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
OK. I took one day off social media / news and the world went crazy. What the heck?


Welcome to 2017!!!!!! frown

Still it's not all bad news, good things are happening.

Like your DD becoming a DR!!!!! Despite the looming gloom and craziness, there are good folks continuing to amaze us. Let's give attention to those good folks and keep a wary eye on the crazy ones.

No sense being in denial about anything. Like preparing for a disaster, we need to be prepared.

Can anyone see the spin out on the horizon? Well, it's much closer now, is it overhead yet? Could be, sooner than later.......for that we should use this time not to panic but get prepared and warn others.

Still to be able to rejoice with your current proud status, we join with you. smile

Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/30/17 12:56 AM

Well, she just got her white coat, she still has clinicals. smile (think residency)

It was a nice weekend. Wound up back in Detroit with enough time to attend the Detroit Metro Airport protest. It was very overcrowded. Again much bigger crowds showed up than expected. Felt I did my civic duty.

I think I have located a new strength to move forward. I am on a NEW slow boil about my daughters treatment and perceptions over the past 2.5 years. She doesn't talk much about it - it hurt her way more than she let on.

That anger is a good thing or me. I do not want to engage DD20 on the negativity about it any further, maybe she's like me that now we are settled more - she can let a bit more out... but its obvious the damage done to her self image is immense and has me fuming.
Its not about money, healthcare or used cars - its about her experience and now outlook in the future.

My good friend's daughter feels the exact same - she, at 27 ish - will not marry her long term boyfriend due to growing up with and watching her parents "affair adventures". How badly the WS-ishness hurt her mother, my friend.

I did not know how hurt both of mine were. I have been so freaked out about myself and survival. We talked about survival - not emotional stuff.

It was nice to spend the weekend with them.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/30/17 01:03 AM

I know of far too many children injured by their father's $%&*•◊@ behavior in selfish Affair Land. These children grow up with magnified pain and heartache. It just breaks my heart. I think I'm going to buy "The Fatherless Daughter Project" book. My daughter needs it. IC isn't helping her.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/30/17 03:28 PM

WUD

Your anger will do NOTHING to help her! It actually continues to harm her and you!!

I'm very serious, it is poison that spreads everyone.

The only thing that will really help her, really and truly? Therapy. Good good good therapy. Where she can learn to hear herself, and trust herself, THEN really hear and trust others, because she's knows her own power will always be there for her.

Please don't keep letting anger run your life. Please please please.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/30/17 06:17 PM

Miranda, I lead the chant for a good while. At points, I changed it up; "Tell me, what democracy looks like? THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE!" to "Tell me, what a snow blizzard looks like? THIS IS WHAT A SNOW BLIZZARD LOOKS LIKE!"[/i]
Even had the "bucket band" from The Parade Company drum lining...

If I can get people to laugh, even at that high anxiety, energy infused time, I'm not going to let anger ruin anything.....

Oh, no. This feels like a positive reality. NC provides a safety, but it also provides a false sense (air protected) of who the WS truly is today.
(Much easier to rely on memories than current actions, [i]especially if you don't see the current actions
.)

At last nights protest at the airport, there was a definite change in the crowds from the Washington march of 10 days ago. I have no Muslim personal ties, unfortunately, so I was there for general support. My group - the first to arrive on the top level, were pretty positive and loud. Lots of energy, but not over the top outrage.

There were many groups of Muslim protestors. Mostly around Carousel 2 and lower outside. The tone was very different. These people are directly affected by what is going on in a way I do not understand. It ratcheted up the crowd. They did not pay attention as well as they should have. The police were called, no one was arrested, but to have so many cop cars around, lights blaring, was unsettling. I was not afraid, not did I leave early because of it - but I certainly saw a situation that could have gotten overwhelming. Thankfully, it went really well.

That was anger put to good use. That will be used to send a stronger message to the NHSA than I had to give.

Someone said, "Go ahead. Keep calling me a "snowflake". Winter is coming."

That's the resolve I need to help lead myself out of this mess.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/30/17 09:03 PM

Heard from the horse and his entourage that all this ban stuff (detaining folks with green cards and other valid identification) because they 'looked like...... and flew in from....', that 'it's ok since it was less than what....109 or 309 folks that got affected vs the over 300K that traveled.'

What is lacking here, empathy? Ok to cause a disruption of system and citizens? Even if it affected 'only' 309 passengers, what about all the others (airlines, law enforcement, relatives, other passengers, airport security, airport staff, transportation, even the janitor, etc.). Is there no ability to see the external cause and affect? We are not just talking inconvenience here, so much more.......

In another location a woman was asked for her 'green card' (she didn't have one, she is an American citizen by birth), by a man who was a patron at a coffee shop. Simple question but was it his business to do so and be so judgmental? Then he claimed death threats without proof?

At least that woman's report was recorded and the man's action matched her story. His on the other hand is still yet to be verified. Yet some are jumping to his defense as if it has been proved.

If he did receive threats he should report it but if he was only making up fake news, he should be exposed for it.

It is getting harder to get to the facts and reports of injustice but someone wants the news to just shut up and listen? To who, the fake news folks?

Sad, very sad.
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/31/17 04:19 AM

I've never been so embarrassed to be an American. Our society is being run by hatred, fear, and 'freedom' to express such views because of who we have accepted to lead us. If he does it, why can't we?

I remember, maybe around 1980, hearing talk about Kennedy possibly having an affair. Or two. I was flabbergasted. I was raised, and it was standard protocol, to give the president a higher level of respect as well as discretion. An affair may be whispered about, but NEVER did it appear in the news. There was a level of respect that we, as Americans, felt we had to give each other (except, of course, for the hidden downtrodden, who weren't discussed back then). It was a matter of pride to respect each other.

Social media changed all that. No, social media MURDERED it. Murdered who America is. Was. I know, every generation says that. But in 60 years, I've never seen such rapid disintegration in society. And I never in my WILDEST dreams could have foreseen electing a man who talked about grabbing women by the p*ssy simply because he could.

smdh
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 01/31/17 10:24 PM

Someone reposted a tweet by Trump - he talks about "farting".

Sheer class, pandering to his crowd.
I hope it's a joke. Don't need fart jokes from the President.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/01/17 03:04 AM

Since he already tweets about everything..... who knows....

Edited to add: my dad would say he should be tooting his own horn! wink
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/01/17 02:15 PM

Do you think he {they} actually believe the stuff coming out of their mouths?

SO absolutely disgusted with the DeVos going to next step of confirmation. It is apparent no matter HOW outrageously unqualified someone is, they are going to be green lighted....

It took 10 whole days for "big pharma" to put Trump in his place. There will NOT be new regulations for lower meds prices.
Yet, STILL people fist pumping and cheering this on.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/02/17 08:03 PM

Well back to the old renovation..

I picked up a $500 bathtub from craigslist for $135.00 Guy does not want to pay to ship it back - he ordered wrong kind..

Pick it up Monday. Kizmet is set in motion - (I have a in store gift card with $100 extra balance on it. Given a $50 off $250 coupon -- I'm $150 ahead on supplies... hehehehehehehehe. )

So, in reality, { I still need 50 sq/ft of tile plus grout - yet.}

I got tub
Waste flange
greenboard/2x4/Silicone/tile flange For $480 out of my pocket.

$500 tub; $199.00 - flange; $180 - tub/shower faucet; about $100 in construction materials. Pretty good deal so far...
hehehehehehehehe.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/02/17 08:41 PM

Your deals are amazing!!!!! thumbsup
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/02/17 10:16 PM

Wow! Sounds like great progress on a bathroom remodel!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/03/17 03:00 AM

Setting it all up to pull the trigger... I will wait until I inspect the tub and mounting kit Monday before ordering and paying for everything else.
(Itchy trigger finger...)

I could kick myself. I found you can purchase coupon codes online - save 20%. During the "electrical storm" last summer, It would have been about $300 more savings.... grrrrrrrrrr. Although @ $15,000 (low estimate with paint/repair) rewire for under $3,000 still makes me very happy.

Live and learn. smile

This tub is a soaker drop in that I am going to set in an alcove - then tile the exposed lower front panel.. then tile the backsplash. Cant settle on tile....
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/03/17 03:10 AM

I'm good at tile....
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/03/17 03:16 AM

Originally Posted By: Blair
Wow! Sounds like great progress on a bathroom remodel!


Well, Dingbat {prior owner/menace to home ownership society} tried to remodel -using huge floor tiles on walls, 1/2" to 3/4" gaps at the caulk lines. I'm getting even more snotty about my design choices -- I think it's going too be absolutely stunning.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/03/17 04:41 AM

You'll find some good tile somewhere that will be perfect for your project. Usually there is spring clearance sales at specialty tile and granite shops. Give it another month and you might find exactly what you want!
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/03/17 01:49 PM

I read a tip to look at swimming pool tile! It's usually a lot cheaper, and no one can tell the difference.

At this time of year it might be on clearance too....
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/03/17 02:23 PM

Well, the way it turned out.
I got three $50 off $250 coupons. One I used online for spigot and rough in dial. (GREAT! now I'm looking at new rough in.)
- of course I cross checked all of the online stores, Lowes will match, but the Lowes price is the lowest posted (really surprised me there!)

The remaining two coupons (that I bought for $.99) can be used in store, and I will split the tile order into two batches

(because of the new tiled apron, I need a total of 50 square feet. If I budget $10/sq - I can buy in two trips, saving $100 off the total tile price. I like the idea of ceramic - but I think marble/stone is easier to install, and looks more classic.

So, saved $150 for $2. AND I'm getting the tile on sale....

So, I have to run the numbers again.......it will bump it up a bit to go this way, but higher grade supplies, for a little bit more....
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/06/17 11:28 PM

"The Upside Down, simply put, appears to be a parallel universe that is habited by a monster. Eleven is the one who gives the alternate dimension the name "The Upside Down," then she and Will both describe it as a place that's comparable to the real world, but somehow off."

-- yikes.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/07/17 05:53 PM

Well, decided that the first tub would not fit - went to Home Depot and bought a "shawty". The Short tub at Lowes was $350 - same darn tub at Depot $159 - they had them in store!
Better yet - Depot honored the $50 off $250 coupon that Lowes gave me. So I piled that order up to $255 - and got another $50 off. hehehehehehehehehe. Up to $108 in free store credit, $150 in coupons - in about 4 trips....

Did I mention I have a 1x2 inch herringbone pattern wall mosaic marble tile? I got an insane idea to get 6 shades and ombre them up the wall in the herringbone pattern?
54 square feet of ombre...

I sat down yesterday and did the mafs. (< that's WuD speak for math.) Each foot row gets a grade of value, each row gets a percentage, for example Row one the darkest gets Value 5- 45%, value 4- 30%, value 3 - 20% random value 5%. Each tier gets different amounts of the values going from dark to lightest.
I also know I need 8 full sheets, 2 half sheets and one 1/3 sheet that all ascend in the same manner...

Then I added up the percentages of each formula up the wall and LO AND BEHOLD - I ordered exactly the right amount of other colors... I was just guessing last weekend.

Showing my mafs, to another teacher she said "How did you know how to do this?" I told her I had a stained glass class where mosaic was taught. Then I remembered - I never took that class, I just dreamt that I had. You must be an art teacher at heart if you dream solutions to problems on projects that you don't even have.

Maybe that is where I get my ideas that I can do anything? I just dream them up? It was the same with my motorcycle. Even though I never had ridden one before, I knew that I could. weird.

Just waiting for all the ordered materials to come in later this week... putting together the "odds and ends" project list. If that can get to $250 ( I don't think it will unless something big happens.) I have ONE coupon left!

'ciao, Babies.

Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/08/17 04:33 AM

You are simply amazing, WuD. You are a deal-finding go-getter of a Lady!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/08/17 03:51 PM

It is official. Now I have heard it all.

Online "homie" friend, who formerly a (real) PB bunny print model, was trying to save her marriage from her WS by doing a fabulous "pick me" dance.

He wanted certain "experiences" that she was never quite comfortable with, but on the advice of a counselor - she, after decades long marriage, tried a scenario she really was not enthusiastic about engaging in. Let's call it School of hard knocks course book : "Advanced Level Pick me Polka - #704". "Spice up your life #608."

Afterwards WS response? He was never going to "forgive BS" for all the years COULD have been enjoying the aforementioned activity while she refused to engage in it... {He was also very jealous that third party was more interested in her than he -Duh. She still looks good, he's average.}

Lesson? With some affair situations, some people, the WS will always move the goal posts on a engaging spouse. You have to wait to reconcile to when both parties are interested in it - any other effort is lopsided and futile.

No matter how attractive, how intelligent, how well you hold up your end of the marital contract, how high you jump, how talented or giving - if someone wants to find fault - they will.

Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/08/17 03:59 PM

Yup... entitled people are always going to be disenfranchised and want moar moar moar. They will NEVER be pleased with what you give.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/08/17 04:10 PM

It's good I don't know this couple in real life, I'm afraid "The Good Reverend WuD?" would preach a sermon this WS would not soon forget.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/08/17 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Well, decided that the first tub would not fit - went to Home Depot and bought a "shawty". The Short tub at Lowes was $350 - same darn tub at Depot $159 - they had them in store!
Better yet - Depot honored the $50 off $250 coupon that Lowes gave me. So I piled that order up to $255 - and got another $50 off. hehehehehehehehehe. Up to $108 in free store credit, $150 in coupons - in about 4 trips....

Did I mention I have a 1x2 inch herringbone pattern wall mosaic marble tile? I got an insane idea to get 6 shades and ombre them up the wall in the herringbone pattern?
54 square feet of ombre...

I sat down yesterday and did the mafs. (< that's WuD speak for math.) Each foot row gets a grade of value, each row gets a percentage, for example Row one the darkest gets Value 5- 45%, value 4- 30%, value 3 - 20% random value 5%. Each tier gets different amounts of the values going from dark to lightest.
I also know I need 8 full sheets, 2 half sheets and one 1/3 sheet that all ascend in the same manner...

Then I added up the percentages of each formula up the wall and LO AND BEHOLD - I ordered exactly the right amount of other colors... I was just guessing last weekend.

Showing my mafs, to another teacher she said "How did you know how to do this?" I told her I had a stained glass class where mosaic was taught. Then I remembered - I never took that class, I just dreamt that I had. You must be an art teacher at heart if you dream solutions to problems on projects that you don't even have.

Maybe that is where I get my ideas that I can do anything? I just dream them up? It was the same with my motorcycle. Even though I never had ridden one before, I knew that I could. weird.

Just waiting for all the ordered materials to come in later this week... putting together the "odds and ends" project list. If that can get to $250 ( I don't think it will unless something big happens.) I have ONE coupon left!

'ciao, Babies.



I can't wait to see a picture.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/08/17 06:02 PM

SW:
Neither can I ! That would mean I'm done with the project! Still waiting on all the ordered tile to arrive, hopefully some today, to start laying out the pattern. Not even going to demo the current bath until I have the mosaic completed to my satisfaction.
It may take a few days, it may take a week. Not a lot I can do without actually seeing the tile in person.

P.S. I warned you guys about that DeVos chick. It's a very sad day for public education, public schools, unions, ethics and decorum. Cost to buy a Main Government Office Position? $200 Million of AMWAY money - NO. Experience. Necessary.

So, them made me get rid of my class pet hamster, so I've had a Grizzly. NOW he's afraid to come out of the storage closet, causing overcrowding by the paint area.


People better resist her, {DeVos, that gun sling'in, grizzly killing West Michigan coast cowgal!} or we are going to have "Jesus schools", ran by $15/hr non educated teachers - with ZERO ADA standards.....no accountability, no oversight. Yeah - Republicans! You go Ladies and Gents!<<<
I believe my role as an experienced, educated teacher is to pull future teachers UP TO my level, and help them succeed, NOT drag them down into student debt eternal poverty.

If you think I'm kidding, back up a few pages and read. The Detroit Free Press (who endorsed Republicans so far, until Flint Water Crisis) is having a 5 alarm fit about this lady...
NOW they care....
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/08/17 06:19 PM

SW well the inspiring tile is at Lowes:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/allen-roth-Marb...4-in/1000003032

but my final will be only a little like that.....
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/08/17 07:15 PM

OOOOh I like it.

As for DeVos, I've been noticing her since you brought her to my attention. Did you see her portrayed in the SNL skit where Melissa McCarthy did Sean Spicer. I about fell over laughing so hard.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/08/17 11:27 PM

That tile would make a great backsplash in my kitchen! smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/09/17 01:22 AM

Thank you SW and Blair.
I like the formation, but not the overly scattered darks at the top.
I have 24/ft of the Lowes variegated now on hand

-but ordered 8 solid sheets of a dark chocolate color, 5 sheets matt brown, 5 sheets sand 5 sheets pink and 10 sheets pure polished white coming. Every sheet will be majorly altered to create the ombre...
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/09/17 05:21 PM

Checked my Spam. Blocked email is directed into spam.

XH sent an email "Oh, I was just unpacking" and he noticed he took one of my muck boots and one of his by accident (they look identical) wants to meet to swap.

...Just that easy, like absolutely nothing happened and we were friends, or something.
(I'd rather burn that sucker like a $150 tire fire than give him the satisfaction.)

Everyone knows here that I still have issues with triggers.
And this man. -- Ignore? Mail it to him? Take a photo with it on fire and tweet????
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/09/17 05:27 PM

"Dear JackWagon:

All apologies, but I gave yours away to a Yeti amputee. He (or was it a she?) really appreciated the gesture.

Squach On!
WuD?"
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/09/17 10:10 PM

Any communication at all with Jack Wagon would be rewarding his bad behavior. Even if it's negative, it's still a reward to him. Continue ignoring!

But I would have a barbecue of some sort and take a photo of something burning and then tweet that! Only you would know what it meant, but it would make you laugh every time! smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/09/17 10:30 PM

hahahaha. Really, I answered my own question months ago. I have often vowed xh gets nothing from me ever again, info, kindness, help or insult - without a stream of apologies first...

...Well? there you go.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/09/17 10:31 PM

I don't tweet. Not really. but the idea is good.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/12/17 08:58 PM

Ran into a meet up group of about 25 ladies (ages 35 - 55- ish.) What a nice, but loud group of potential new friends!
Brunch at a lady's house, general mayhem, but a few monopolized the social.

The "chief" - lots of energy, I'd probably rather like her - but she spoke non stop about a married man she dated for the past 8 months. This guy did not divorce his wife as promised, so I got a HUGE earful from "the other side".

All women thought it was not ideal, but way too many seemed to outwardly, at least, encourage her; encourage her not to tell the wife, acted like this man was "fair game". Even other divorced women - who had been cheated on - did not seem that upset by it.
I heard;
"The OM wife does the same thing to him!".. ( but OW never met her)
This situation (affair) was/is special.
Their (OM/OMW) marriage was not like a regular marriage.
This OM was her (once in a lifetime) soul mate - even though she just "dumped" him - for not filing for divorce, he will forever be the "love of her life." Not the father of her 5 kids.... (?)

I really liked all the ladies - many seem like a hoot, but I felt like I was the only one who was not encouraging of this hot mess.

Lesson learned. Many OW (and friends) have absolutely ZERO empathy for BS or family. This new lady was not evil, nor mean, nor I doubt a bad person. She simply could have cared less about the havoc her affair may caused in this OM's family life. Just vacant of any accountability. She said she did not know - but by the time she found out he was married, it was too late, she was "in love".

At one point, it was suggested she let OM's wife know. MOST in the group said "NO!" stay out of it! {Tho she didn't seem to mind about staying out of this mans bed.}

Like Jayne Goodall, I absorbed the conversation. I really liked this group. Liked them enough to offer to teach a paint and pour later...
I thought my values about affairs was pretty wide held. I'm foolish.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/12/17 11:05 PM

Your view is widely held, but not anything close to universally held either. Choose values that work for you. Good to know what is out there even when it is not pretty. Forewarned is forearmed.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/13/17 12:19 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
.....Lesson learned. Many OW (and friends) have absolutely ZERO empathy for BS or family. This new lady was not evil, nor mean, nor I doubt a bad person. She simply could have cared less about the havoc her affair may caused in this OM's family life. Just vacant of any accountability. She said she did not know - but by the time she found out he was married, it was too late, she was "in love".

At one point, it was suggested she let OM's wife know. MOST in the group said "NO!" stay out of it! {Tho she didn't seem to mind about staying out of this mans bed.}

Like Jayne Goodall, I absorbed the conversation. I really liked this group. Liked them enough to offer to teach a paint and pour later...
I thought my values about affairs was pretty wide held. I'm foolish.


You are not foollish, hopeful maybe but not foolish. It is sad that so many are actually supporting a selfish attitude. More support it than they realize.

Here is where I see the problem. That lumping folks into one category then demonizing them for it. Now does that sound like that is what we do to a WS?

Yes, it is to a degree. There are different levels of those who earned the title, WS. Not all are raging and some take the WS attitude then make it their 'way of life'. It is the later that should get to wear that title. Y? Because their lifestyle reflect it.

Now for folks to support to know they are supporting that atitude is where the fault needs to reside. It could be in-laws, parents, siblings, co-workers, employees, neighbors, lawyers, even children could be manipulated into supporting the WS and their lifestyle.

What those who were WS' and then changes causing them to shed the WS attitude, need to understand that they are not included or should not be included in the same category with a raging WS. Very different folks. We, as a group need to help show the difference.

Will this cause awkward moments? Yes. How to handle those moments? That's a discussion that we should continue to have. Do we need to be prepared to lose friendships, relationships as a result? Yes. Will some see it as a bitter move vs just sit down and shut up moment? Yes, Are they right? Well, I say no but that's just my opinion even though my BTDT should count for some credibility, right? wink

WUD, I'd say go find another group of friends. I'm sure there are other folks out there that won't make you feel so uncomfortable.

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/13/17 03:03 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Ran into a meet up group of about 25 ladies (ages 35 - 55- ish.) What a nice, but loud group of potential new friends!
Brunch at a lady's house, general mayhem, but a few monopolized the social.

The "chief" - lots of energy, I'd probably rather like her - but she spoke non stop about a married man she dated for the past 8 months. This guy did not divorce his wife as promised, so I got a HUGE earful from "the other side".

All women thought it was not ideal, but way too many seemed to outwardly, at least, encourage her; encourage her not to tell the wife, acted like this man was "fair game". Even other divorced women - who had been cheated on - did not seem that upset by it.
I heard;
"The OM wife does the same thing to him!".. ( but OW never met her)
This situation (affair) was/is special.
Their (OM/OMW) marriage was not like a regular marriage.
This OM was her (once in a lifetime) soul mate - even though she just "dumped" him - for not filing for divorce, he will forever be the "love of her life." Not the father of her 5 kids.... (?)

I really liked all the ladies - many seem like a hoot, but I felt like I was the only one who was not encouraging of this hot mess.

Lesson learned. Many OW (and friends) have absolutely ZERO empathy for BS or family. This new lady was not evil, nor mean, nor I doubt a bad person. She simply could have cared less about the havoc her affair may caused in this OM's family life. Just vacant of any accountability. She said she did not know - but by the time she found out he was married, it was too late, she was "in love".

At one point, it was suggested she let OM's wife know. MOST in the group said "NO!" stay out of it! {Tho she didn't seem to mind about staying out of this mans bed.}

Like Jayne Goodall, I absorbed the conversation. I really liked this group. Liked them enough to offer to teach a paint and pour later...
I thought my values about affairs was pretty wide held. I'm foolish.


Did you voice your views at all?

How do you feel about continuing a social relationship with woman with such low morals?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/13/17 08:32 AM

I don't think she thought it was low morals. She praised herself for "ending it" - I think she's angling for him to divorce, really - but wrapped it up with"I'm just not that type of person" bow...
I've seen all the pain, anguish and family destruction affair behavior causes. just surprised so many strangers were so supportive.

They could tell by my reservations I was not for it, I think. I did point out that many in the room were probably BS, and the "advice" being given may be hurting some - and not need to be dragging on.

It was simply odd to see it from others side. OW was obviously looking to be absolved of wrongdoing by group. I certainly can't do that (or give her that.)
Chants of "you're kids will be ok", "the kids will be ok", just fell flat on my ears. How can someone know that?

Many people I know don't share my values or opinions. I used to like that. I'm looking for friends - not looking for bobble heads smile - will be interesting if I continue to participate - good lesson for me is to not put myself too "out there".

Someone else was also talking about how charter schools "saved" her flunking kid -- and put her on the honor roll... kind of a slam of public schools, too. Again, I don't think they saw it as a slam, just selfish thinking.

Most of my friends support teachers - this was interesting, too. Just how others see the world. "Get yours, put yourself first" irks me.

There were also really unique other people there, too. It seemed a few tried to monopolize conversation. Huge cross section.





Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/13/17 02:40 PM

WUD,

I have the same experience as you when in groups. And I have friends who have very different views on things than I do as well.

Here's what I find in groups like that. There are often people there who don't follow the "party line" that is being so vocally expressed, but they aren't heard or seen. Many times they are sitting slightly off to the side thinking to themselves "geez, I don't want to get drawn into this messy drama. But these folks are kind of screwed up!" or else they're thinking "Am I really the only one who sees this as messed up here?"

They have reasons of their own for not "rocking the boat" and so they just sit over there internally rolling their eyes. They may even feel it's none of their business or not their place to say anything.

This is why I much prefer smaller gatherings. You can talk a little more "one on one" and don't have the group think and monopolizers like you do in the big group settings.
Posted By: SFB

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/14/17 02:38 AM

WuD:

It is the "Emperors New Clothes".

Most in the group did not want to speak up.. the Leader was expressing a loud opinion. And may have even started the group, so most were there because of her.

Had you popped her bubble, maybe you would have found a lot of support for the your POV. And that the group was just following along, and not thinking critically of the "leaders" OW ways.

SFB
Posted By: Chrysalis

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/14/17 06:14 PM

WuD, my concern is that this person has already shown that she is willing to dominate the group looking for approval of her affair. I don't think that is going to change. It takes a very strong person to steal group dominance away from someone who has it and likes it. Why keep exposing yourself to that?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/14/17 07:29 PM

Well. St. Valentine, you suck. Could be that I am up to my armpits in Roses-o-grams, Candy Grams.... (we are selling them as a fund raiser for Paris/Rome 2018.) >sigh< -- woe is me.
At least I can make it fun for a few hundred other people.

It really hurts because I met my xh in high school. And these childish "hearts and candy" resonate with our start. Bummer.

Most people get dinner, roses, gifts and adoration for Valentinte's, I get another request for a dirty old boot.
Xh sends me another request to meet to trade the muck boots. I decided last time to simply ignore.
Why should he control anything after how poorly he treated us.

So he has to remind me he's still alive - on St.Valentines Day. W@nker.

SFB:
I agree with who I now think of as "Queen Bee". Although as you guys know, after BD I talked non stop about now xh. She may be in that obsessive phase. I mean fresh break up with OM.
- but my empathy o meter is out of whack.

More than OW attitude, she decided to talk about how stupid public school was, how her daughter was flunking, and how the CHARTER SCHOOL she enrolled her into has her on the honor roll.
- notice WuD's eyes shift left to right.

Another point she made was "You (meaning the parents) don't have to do 'nuthin to help the kid at all!) She was a walking infomercial for this private school.
- notice WuD's eyes slide back over.
I did say "There will be no trashing teachers, here." But I said it in a funny manner, everyone laughed, except me, on the inside.

Crys: It was more like me just listening to another type of people. Usually I'm the queen bee, I intentionally remained quiet, just listening. I do think I will avoid her in the future, tho she often hosts the group meetings at her place
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/14/17 07:48 PM

P.S. The 1 x 2 inch herringbone pattern seems to be working out in a beautiful ombre. I'm worried about the shift into the "lights" - the tones are very close, some simply texture - but I will be glad when it's over.

It is 64 tiles a sq foot, - the size of a domino) every tile needs to be hand re laid - peeled off backing and re glued with a wider margin, dark to light fade.
I'm proud I did the mafs gooder. It seems to be working out nicely.
This
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/14/17 08:08 PM

I find it helpful to come here and tell my stories and see if my perception is off either way of how things really were.

So while you were in the thick of it I imagine it was fun and engaging and felt good to be around fun people. Later you start to think, 'WTHeck!'

Once you have lived through infidelity, betrayal, divorce and especially a financially gut wrenching settlement these type of groups of people can never be the same to you. You have knowledge now...real knowledge whereas before you had an intellectual sense of morals....now you FEEL it...you LIVED it. So I don't imagine you will find this group worth pursuing.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 01:18 AM

Yeah, not everyone in the group seems to be like her.

Many seemed like nice ladies.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 01:50 AM

The point is that in any group not geared to like what we do here will have a combination of folks. The informed, the ignorant, those in denial, the oblivious and the grouchy. Sprinkled among them are the basically nice folks who never experienced such trauma.

Decide WUD if that particular group fills your needs. Don't let the 'giver' in you reach out and set yourself up to be 'used again'. You've been through a lot and are a bit wiser now. Use that wisdom and be discerning about who you choose to associate with.

I'd say, start your own group. Do on-line blogging to help women who are starting over learn how to spruce up, buy up and fix up their homes and lives. Start that company, I think you already have a few clients just waiting for you to open 'dem doors'. smile

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 02:51 AM

AAArgh. Jackwagon is after his boots again. He could easily get a new pair. Mail me my boot - burn it.
He is sending messages to my work and private email.
-- jackwagon. grrrr. grrr. grrr.

He tricked, financially monster, emotionally monstered for 2 years. NOW he wants to meet up over dirty old boots? My Spidey Sense is tingling. On the MLC boards they call this rebounding, they claim MLCers can do it, off an on, for years.
The best thing to do is ignore...

On another note, Orchid - I found a single mom (I teach her son) who is renovating her house by herself - {at least HER kid helps her!}
She may come over to my house this weekend to help me rip out the bathroom - I imagine moving that tub will be a bear...- and I will trade hours at her house.

She does not know the deal she is being offered. She only knows I paint well...
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 02:59 AM

Ok, I'd respond like this:

Jack.....
Your boot was put outside on the curb. Did you get it?

Sincerely,
WUD

Send it by carrier pigeon. dance2

2nd email, send snail mail........to his work.

Or mail the boot to his work, COD.

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 04:12 AM

Naw. I remember him cheating me till the very bitter end (he tried to pimp an extra $550 - $1,100 out of me on my car payoff- last summer. Flat out extortion - using his attorney till the end. He tried to charge more that was due on the car balance - without providing a current statement. ). In fact, provided doctored payoff note! Disgusting. Sad. I replied:

"I don't think it is a good idea."

-- My psychologist friend says It's not about boots. Whatever. He does not call the shots anymore.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 05:05 AM

Is that the 'boot' that fell in the pile of poop near that curb!?!?!?!?!?
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 05:12 AM

Let the dogs use his boots for their new chew toy! smile

Besides, the marital property was already divided up. This is not your problem any more.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 12:32 PM

The hubris.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 01:52 PM

don't you have the power to make this stop with just a few simple words. "I no longer have this item"
Posted By: SFB

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 02:15 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
The hubris.


WuD:

Absolutely. There is something else driving this. All thru your D there was something.

There is something else about this boot.

What? $100 for a new pair?

He wants a response. He wants under your skin. He wants to pull you back in. "If *I* can get WuD to respond to this..." Then he knows how much he has to dial it up to get the next response.

It might be interesting to see how far he goes to get this "Portkey".

SFB
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 02:59 PM

The only thing interesting about this - is that this will be the first time - since it all ended (after car/401k split) that he has tried to communicate. OF COURSE, he acts like we are friends, and I should do him a favor.

-- Apparently, he did not like my response. I should have simply ignored.

{Hey, you. Yes. The person I directly lied to, sent nasty attorney grams trying to cheat you, yet again -- Hey, you. Will you do me a favor?}

About the car note: P.S. At the time - I'm sure his contact with attorney/threatening letter - misrepresented bank statements cost him plenty of $$$.
He assumed I'd get hauled into court, his big mouth attorney would "win" and I'd have to pay the elevated car payout, AND reimburse his attorney for her "time".
BUT
- Turned out the tone and content of his nasty attorney letter - ie: [i]"Pay up today or I will take you to court and force you to pay for the loan (wrong amount) PLUS all my billable hours on this matter
!" - This nasty gram is what got the bank manager to settle the car loan without xh present. Boy did he think XH was a tool.

(At a $550 savings over what he demanded. It was the bank manager that said XH documentation was "misrepresenting real pay off amount".)[/i]

I must have been a total sucker in the past few years to allow myself to be roped into this thinking.....> yes. I pick me danced about A LOT of things in our marriage before the end. He must miss the "Juming on a pogo stick WuD?"

At least I have the emotional distance and perspective now.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 03:03 PM

Sorry, I gave them to my new boyfriend. He plays for the Lions / Pistons. You are welcome to ask him if you can have them back.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 03:07 PM

Hold: hehehehehehehehehe.

Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick. Seems angry, passive. Like I am too obtuse to understand the situation...."

Poop boot fire time.

Seriously, he may not realize that he does NOT have "Old Iron Skirt" to hide behind anymore, I do not have my attorney to hold me back.... seriously. wink

I should make a fake craigslist posting "For sale, One old poop boot. Used, $20,000 - or college tuition for your own biological daughter, you Jackwagon!"
Send him the link to the posting....
> Take a photo of the boot with my dog squatting over it. nod
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 03:30 PM

...see? I could be a professional conflict management person. I could be making the big mediation bucks.

Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 03:39 PM

YYYYEEEAHHH.
DD23 just got a Scholarship to go on a medical mission (for eye care) to Tanzania! This will be her third humanitarian medical mission as a student. THIS time, instead of triage, she will actually be doing the optometry exams.

...wait. Where is Tanzania?
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/15/17 05:59 PM

what an amazing opportunity for your daughter! So cool!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/16/17 02:24 AM

I spoke to DD23 tonight.
I went on about her scholarship, she told me about something terrible "Dear Old Dad" - said to her last month. Around her "White Coat" ceremony...I was stunned.


I wish she had not told me.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/16/17 12:59 PM

What was said, what was done = nothing. Like SFB imagines, I think he is escalating to get a response. - I refuse.

The affair is fed and thrives on drama. They are strengthened by fighting me. For some reason, this still goes on today. I did not expect that. For some reason, xh is ratcheting up the attention seeking. This includes inane requests and insulting my daughters, I imagine, more likely to entice a reaction from me.
If that relationship is shaky, or getting boring - he may be trying to resurrect that old dynamic, (them vs me) at my expense. Like middle school all over again. Too screwed up to get entangled with.

Any attention that I give back will feed this dynamic. Do not feed the monkeys at the circus.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/19/17 11:46 AM

Holy MAN! A student and his mother came over to help me rip out my bathtub.
I certainly met my match!

In 9 hours, we: ripped out old tile/backer/ disconnected and dislodged wedged in tub/ cut out all dry rotted/damaged flooring - replace destroyed joists/ mold treatment/ re engineered tub faucet rough in (had to break in closet back wall to do so)/ figure out PEX, cut out and install new plumbing/ waste-drain/ reinstall/ vapor barrier/ AND insulated and reset slightly too big tub to level. I thought I was going to die.
Old tub at street - tile out, too.
I have never ran up and down stairs, located "whatevers", cut boards, handed tools so much in my life! If they were willing to help, I was certainly going to facilitate...

That PEX plastic plumbing is just plain weird stuff. I should have soldered copper - really -in the past I have soldered stain glass windows , Pete's sake - but what is done is done - and I have a $40 crimping tool (to crimp on sixteen 10 - cent clips to show for it. )
. All in all - interesting day. Today, clean up tornado mess house, install tile backer board, waterproof. 3 hours, at most - compared to 12 yesterday.

Well, I still have to glue/mosaic 30 sq ft of tiles... plus I went taller with dry wall cut out and added another 8 ft (>sheesh<) of tiling...

Romanian workers give Polish workers a run for their money. I'd still be tugging on the old tub....
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/19/17 01:14 PM

Sounds great!! Love the good help too. And your crew made good time.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/20/17 11:21 AM

.....and my thumb is out for the count. Wah. Cement baker board (HBB) all cut, installed, (temporarily held in place with nailer, then using the HHB screws, drill slipped - went through my thumb.

So, after a bit of stars and cuss words, I duct tapped it up and finished the wall. In my previous life, I imagine, there would have been work stoppage, ice, bandages and rest - maybe a beer or a shot of Jack in a dirty glass.... but, sadly, only the work stoppage happened.

Happy to report it's my left thumb, and the puncture is the impression of a six pointed star that was the bit shape. Now, the thumb tells me it identifies as Kosher, wants a second fridge in the kitchen for dairy...

This am = more duct tape - trip for drywall edging... maybe some pancakes.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/20/17 01:01 PM

Ouch! That sounds really painful! Wait, more duct tape?? For another finger or the project?
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/20/17 06:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Blair
Ouch! That sounds really painful! Wait, more duct tape?? For another finger or the project?


Wow Wud.......deep cut? Hope you did more than duct tape. Do you need stitches?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/20/17 11:51 PM

Thanks, Ladies - no stitches - it's crushed with one big puncture wound, looks really purple.

No time for fiddlesticks! I taped that sucker, found a wrist brace with thumb holder - popped it on! Back to work for this Trixie. I gave up on the old cordless driver - it will not drive drywall screws with enough force...
Blew the budget -
So, I picked up a beautiful new set (including pneumatic) BOSCH (Girl needs a birthday gift.)

First I got DeWalt set at Sears, @ $190 then not liking the price (yuck! - retail) I went to Lowes found "last years" Bosch set {regularly $330 - clearance out for $249 -- HEY! Guess which girl has another $50 off $200 coupon? (bandaged thumbs pointing back) this girl right here!

Bought that - back to Sears for the return punt.... Viola! This BOSCH set does everything except drill the hole for you.

3 trips for trims, fiber tape - random shiz -- got the HBB taped waterproof mudded, silicone, side drywall pieced out/taped/ first layer of skip coat applied.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/21/17 01:02 AM

You go, girl! What a great birthday present~!! zen
Posted By: Sonnambula

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/21/17 01:21 AM

WuD? - I think you're totally *** nuts ***

And I mean that as a compliment thumbsup

They broke the mold after they made you smile
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/21/17 02:08 PM

I will tell you what, WUD, you gots to have good tools! Working with shinola-y tools gets you hurt every stinking time!

I'm glad you got a good tool at a good price. The money you are saving by doing it yourself makes the tool expenditures water under the bridge really.

We built a 4-season type sunroom on the back of our house. The prices quoted for a room of this type? Ridiculous! And the construction of said room? CRAP! Not really tied into the actual house construction, etc. So we elected to do it ourselves.

Got a room 1.5 times the size, with fit and finish 100x nicer. Tied into the house, with amazing amenities, (independent heating and cooling, HUGE ceiling fan, vaulted ceilings, with exposed beam, those kick ass triangular windows in the tippy top and french doors opening up on every side with double pane glass and the blinds between the glass!) oh, and a HOT TUB inside.. All for about 2/3 of what we got quoted!! And we did hire part of the work done... Rough construction, roofing, drywall, and paint, as well as some of the trim work because the angles on those triangle windows were.... confusing..

Worth it to hire paint, because these guys were so FAST... jeezus! Same with drywall... and we had to do that vaulted ceiling... uhm, yeah, no. And the roofing? Well husband is afraid of heights, he hired a two man crew to do rough construction, guys we know, and husband helped them, and they came back and did the roof.

Tools included, this project was 2/3 what everyone else quoted for crap... And now we have amazing tools!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/21/17 08:42 PM

Yes, if you have the know how - it's actually really financially and emotionally rewarding to do it yourself.

Yup. Although I do not begrudge the tradesmen their living - I just can't have that luxury right now. Things are really looking great - I just am onto the next headache - setting the tile square. tiny herringbone is killing me - and something is not exactly square (go figure 90 year old house) - but I am diligently setting the first row level -- if it takes me 2 days - to get rid of headaches for setting the rest.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/21/17 09:06 PM

The electrical was quoted (base $12,000 plus they leave the torn out walls/holes.) I added upgrades in every room, moved every outlet- added runs - I'm sure $3,000 more AT LEAST.
Low estimate plaster/paint $3,500 -- I figure a good $18,500 repair - out the door -- my cost? Under $3,000 - plus gave $400 tools to brother I hope I'll never use again. Never take on this type of project again, though.... WHAT a mess...

but I said that about tiling, too.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/21/17 09:22 PM

yeah, and then there's that satisfaction factor. Every time I walk into that room, I just sort of go "wow." It's seriously freakin' gorgeous. WAY more gorgeous than any of that pre-fab bullshinola they were trying to sell us.

And I know we did it. And I'm just sorta thrilled by the whole thing.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/21/17 09:24 PM

A professor of mine at college told a great story about setting course. When he was young he was sent to live with an aunt and uncle in the Mid East. He was old enough to remember, but young enough to be shy of strangers as his uncle took him around to meet the new people in town.

All the men shook the young boys hand or clapped him on the back and said; "Your uncle, he plows the first row!". The boy had no absolutely no idea what this meant, although he heard this welcome time and again from the people. It was not until later that season he understood.

This was a farming community and they used oxen to plow then plant the arrow straight fields. "First row" had to be set absolutely straight and true. After the row was set, other farmers could continue the pattern for maximum planting and harvest.

Any skewing would affect the entire field. Imagine dragging a single plow behind a team of oxen, who weighed tons - all while making sure the line carved was straight, and true to the field space. These few men who could do this were trusted, well respected by the community. It not only was skill, but integrity and the trust of the farmers this job required in this community.

Every time I don't want to take the time to start a project "right" I remember this tale. What you begin, you must set your boundaries, because everything else reflects those first few marks - ideas or tasks. I think now they call this butterfly effect.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/24/17 05:33 PM

Hope that everyone is doing well.

I am stuck on the tiling. The marble sheets are not holding their form, so I am removing and hand applying 55 square feet of 1" x 2" tiles. Takes about an hour to set in 2 square feet. I'm hoping that when I'm in the "middle section" with no cuts or spacing issues, it will go faster.
Using a laser level to mark my grid, it is slowly climbing up the wall.... I was at first afraid to hand set the pattern, but because of the markings and the easy repeat, it is going rather well, but I only have about 8 square ft done.

I still don't know what the finished ombre will be, at this point I'm still relying on the math and percentages to get the values scale lighter... maybe I'll tile the complete back wall - so I can have the big wall and faucet wall follow the gradation.

How do I set myself up for this? WHY do I set myself up with all of this???

I can't tell if it is going to be great or a huge mistake - I really like the herringbone pattern, tho.
It really hides any hand setting errors,
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/24/17 06:03 PM

Really weird side note.
Remember the meet up group where I ran into this lady (primarily the queen bee) who was bemoaning the apparent loss of her 8 month affair to her married boyfriend?

Well, I have not been to another meeting, but I am "linked" to her via FB.
She has recently had the police over because "someone" was calling her phone, then beating on her front door after midnight.
The police believe it is neighborhood kids, but my first thought was it was probably the AP, AP's wife, children, friends. I seriously doubt she told the police of her recent break up with an AP. So. they are out in left field guessing - or blaming her xh. Since there are young children in the household, I'm sure they will use many resources for the extra drive bys.

It has been said many times here that many affairs thrive on the drama.

I did not comment except to mention that motion sensitive "deer cams" work at night, are extremely reasonable second hand..." If it is her AP looking for attention, or random kids, a good photo will certainly help identify.

I noticed she went out and got inexpensive "door noise makers", not a real security system. And so the figure 8 loop of drama is continued.

At least I'm not part of that type of shenanigans. I'm too old, life is too short.

Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/25/17 04:59 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
How do I set myself up for this? WHY do I set myself up with all of this???


Because the details matter. And the finished product will look simply amazing!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/25/17 05:54 PM

Going downtown Dtwoit to the Grand Opening of 3 man records pressing facility. Jack White is a local hero.
They are giving tours of the pressing plant, making Detroit the 3rd largest vinyl record producer. Ignoring the tiling job for a few. Hoping the helper elves finish for me.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/26/17 04:20 AM

Well, how was it?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/26/17 08:22 AM

Crowded! Waited @ 2 hours to get a hand pressed re release of White Stripes one and two. Printed on bright red vinyl. I was told to not play them, ever..... (?) Wanted the Stooges re release, {Yeah, Iggy} but that was back order only, so I skipped it for now.

Did not get anywhere near the manufacturing part the crowds were way more than expected, I think - but hooray! Looks like 50 more permanent jobs, at $15 an hour, for locals. Hope it does well.
Really cool idea, they converted an Ice cream truck into a record selling truck. TO go to venues all over America. I think it will be a great idea for independent music. I think there will be a growing "cult" of people who like this. The Shinola table is $2,500! way over my head! since next door, stopped by.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/26/17 03:09 PM

Sounds like you had a lot of fun! And you have a beautiful collector's item too!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/26/17 09:19 PM

I just finished about 45% of the square footage of marble. So far 1,800 + tiles right now! Woo Hoo! .....this is really why I'm divorced, folks.

{sing with me!}
"One thousand, eight hundred sixty four tiles on the wall! One thousans eight hundred plus a few stooooooone! One, two - cheat on a few!!- One thousand, nine hundred some tiles on the wall...."
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/27/17 12:15 AM

OH, boy. Had to quit. DD23 called, she is making a phonebook for DD20's upcoming birthday. She wants me to open the dreaded photo box.

I can't even look at the damn thing. Have not since I packed it. Maybe someday, but not today. DD23 is really upset that I have not done this task. She does not understand why I don't snap out of it.

Affairs (well, more specifically entitled behaviors of a trusted partner) absolutely destroy families, dreams and take years off your life. Not saying this is all xh side, I'm sure I did or didn't do my bit. I would not treat a dog the way my partner of 30 years treated me for the past 3.

I hate to be so dramatic, but that is exactly what happened to me.
My xh knew me from childhood, basically. He knew I lost many importanytpeople in my life, and if he wanted to divorce, he didn't have to do it like he did.

I met a gent for coffee, recently divorced. He will not leave this country (for his work) because of his STEP son. He wants to support him through University. To meet a man so dedicated to being a dad, to a step child is foreign to me. He also GAVE his lake house to his xw, because he did not want his bio son to have to move from the only house he has know.

-- I was stunned.

I don't look forward to anything except the next task and work. I'm lonely. I am beyond fortunate to have a good job I like, roof over my head that I can rehab as I go -
( I am still in awe over how fortunate I was to find such a "good bones" house as this to own. I located more recent "spring" comps, I think I would be extremely happy with the current market.) But for now, I'm not going anywhere.

Psheew--- Ok...ok. Glad that's over.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/27/17 12:40 AM

Your latest coffee date gives me hope that there are available men who aren't all selfish and entitled. You've geen run through the wringer by your Ex, in his quest to destroy you. Anyway, are you going out with the new gent again? Did you like other things about his personality?

Maybe it's time to do more meet-ups and other group activities. Learn a new hobby. Buy another house and rehab it, or start your own consulting company on the side.

P.S. Photos of your latest project would be appreciated when the project is completed. smile
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/27/17 04:15 AM

I would like to point out that a healthy dose of skepticism is needed when dealing with new men. I am quite certain my xh paints himself the generous xh to a demanding xw.....

Watch carefully to see if his actions meet his words.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/27/17 07:44 PM

The gent was ok, but nothing chemistry wise there. HE seemed very genuine in his words, he certainly did not make himself out to be a hero. - meh.

At least there are a few men out who meet my basic requirements.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/28/17 12:16 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
The gent was ok, but nothing chemistry wise there. HE seemed very genuine in his words, he certainly did not make himself out to be a hero. - meh.

At least there are a few men out who meet my basic requirements.


Yes there are. Lots of good men out there.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 02/28/17 04:43 PM

The bathroom wall is looking beautiful. I mean, better than even I imagined. That's saying a bit, because I have pretty high expectations for myself.

It really looks like it should hang in a gallery, not stand around a bathtub. So far 2,100 hand set tiny marble pieces and counting.......
There will be 3,248 tiles set (not counting all the edging) when
I'm done sos
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/01/17 12:20 PM

Wow. Have been really doing some more "letting go" type of work. I guess the pictures and recent posts have moved some stuff around in my head.

I dreamt that I was having "the conversation" with xh, he was explaining his reasons for the divorce.
On his face, where a beard should have been, there was green moss. His words didn't matter much (rationalizing/ normalizing and excusing all his behavior ) my mind was fluidly thinking about what the words mean - at face value - at least I am focusing on MY reactions in my dreams...

My thought was "He does not think he did anything wrong. He is completely happy with his choices, he really does not care how I feel, how kids feel, how extended family feel - he actually thinks he's just fine. That's the current reality, I need to accept that."

God! that hurt a lot. Then I kept staring at the moss/beard. (Does everyone dream like this?)
I went to the dream dictionary; Moss: Dependence, slow growth, patience.
I'm taking that to be a positive sign that I am finally, slowly accepting (slow growth) that what he was saying was the "his" truth - he really does not feel bad, he's content with his choices. I need to be more patient with myself and allowing these facts to sink in.

AND as you all know here, it has taken me a loooooonnng time to accept the situation at face value.

I have read that women recover differently than men. I wonder if artists recover differently, or is this garden variety disassociation? At least it seems a step forward.
Posted By: EarningIt

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/01/17 04:55 PM

WUD,

It took me the better part of four years before I felt like I was moving on to the rest of my life. Each year was better than the prior, each experience moved me forward. (with some stagnant periods)

Women recover differently than men, artists probably do recover differently. Really everyone recovers differently.

I hope you take a moment to step back and give yourself a warm smile at everything you have accomplished. Its pretty awesome and an example of growth in shinola-y circumstance.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/01/17 04:59 PM

What I love about you WUD is that sure maybe your growth has been slow in a few areas, but you haven't just sat down and waited. You have been rocking and rollin' in other areas and s at least at the end of the time period you have a beautiful remodeled house which has increased significantly in value.

Dreams help me process stuff all of the time.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/01/17 10:29 PM

Wow, that was interesting! If dreams were ever symbolic, yours hit the nail on the head. It does sound like you are coming to the acceptance stage for both your heart and your head.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/02/17 12:54 AM

EI - hey! Long time, thanks -- my house looks like a bomb went off in it again! Once the tiling is done I think Its going to look fantastic.

Slow process, fitting the tiles, but going to be a true piece of art.

SW: Thanks. I seriously got motivated and lucky in finding this location. Will be affordable in a ver nice location, rare.

Blair: I'm still confused as to what the heck??? It was kind of gross...

I still miss my "old nuclear" family. Every day. I miss being the mom in a three ring circus, a wife and instigator of general mayhem. I really don't think I'll ever have that feeling of total confidence, support and love again. I was naive.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/02/17 02:52 PM

Whhhew! Went to another "singles" meet up group, aforementioned the ladies social group were invited too.
These people (singles in their 40'5/ 50's) are a total breeding ground for bad choices... It was fascinating. I thought critical thinking got better after high school. but, I guess, maybe that is the pot calling the kettle black.

Most were friendly and inviting, I swear I can't sit down with a drink -- I fall asleep. So at least the gathering made good listening for me, which made me a highly sought out companion.

For example, "Jane" on the left just broke up with bf of a year. Her Kids moved out, he assumed he was moving in with her. She wanted a man with more money and stability. She said; "I'd rather be moving into HIS place, not helping this guy out!"
{then, why did she date him in the first place? Why did she "waste" a year?) - this attribute is very common.
Lady on the right just broke up, stuck on how former boyfriend had "issues" and was starting rumors.... I just raised my eyebrows and nodded....
They BOTH knew the aforementioned lady (the cheater) from my first meetup - they did not like her at all, almost got me placed out of the group dancing
I am so damn loyal, I already did not want to tolerate hate speech about someone I know. --- but then I reminded myself "you don't know her."

It was really, REALLY sad to hear the negativity about dating, at least finding men "our age" who are not looking for women 15 - 20 years younger (looking for a nurse) and want you to not only be self sufficient, but WEALTHY (a purse). That men do not want commitment, they are "done" with marriage, but of course, they want all the bennies of that type of relationship, just a few days a week. OR they are crack pots, narcs or have an "agenda".
>sigh<
Well, I'm only looking for one.
There was a bit of high school drama, "She's spreading rumors about me!" - {good hell, woman, you are in your 50's!} but again, I'm very very very very used to that (I get paid to untangle drama)

But all in all, a very entertaining mix of people.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/02/17 03:18 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Whhhew! Went to another "singles" meet up group, aforementioned the ladies social group were invited too.
These people (singles in their 40'5/ 50's) are a total breeding ground for bad choices... It was fascinating. I thought critical thinking got better after high school. but, I guess, maybe that is the pot calling the kettle black.

Most were friendly and inviting, I swear I can't sit down with a drink -- I fall asleep. So at least the gathering made good listening for me, which made me a highly sought out companion.

For example, "Jane" on the left just broke up with bf of a year. Her Kids moved out, he assumed he was moving in with her. She wanted a man with more money and stability. She said; "I'd rather be moving into HIS place, not helping this guy out!"
{then, why did she date him in the first place? Why did she "waste" a year?) - this attribute is very common.
Lady on the right just broke up, stuck on how former boyfriend had "issues" and was starting rumors.... I just raised my eyebrows and nodded....
They BOTH knew the aforementioned lady (the cheater) from my first meetup - they did not like her at all, almost got me placed out of the group dancing
I am so damn loyal, I already did not want to tolerate hate speech about someone I know. --- but then I reminded myself "you don't know her."

It was really, REALLY sad to hear the negativity about dating, at least finding men "our age" who are not looking for women 15 - 20 years younger (looking for a nurse) and want you to not only be self sufficient, but WEALTHY (a purse). That men do not want commitment, they are "done" with marriage, but of course, they want all the bennies of that type of relationship, just a few days a week. OR they are crack pots, narcs or have an "agenda".
>sigh<
Well, I'm only looking for one.
There was a bit of high school drama, "She's spreading rumors about me!" - {good hell, woman, you are in your 50's!} but again, I'm very very very very used to that (I get paid to untangle drama)

But all in all, a very entertaining mix of people.


Wow WUD. Keep looking. There are good people and good men out there.

I found one......and I was barely self sufficient.....actually once I married him and lost my alimony I wasn't even self sufficient! And I was very up front about wanting to stay home and finish homeschooling my son.

My husband is gorgeous. And he is two years younger than me.

So take courage. You keep being your awesome self and the right awesome man will be attracted to you.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/02/17 06:00 PM

Good men are out there and don't need to keep talking about themselves and the sizes of their accomplishments over and over and over again....... wink

You will find one who fits you for you and not for what you can give him. On the flip side it's the same for him, so if each of you (we know you got this) can be a giver with a balanced taker, that's one you can learn to like/love/live with.

Still it's some chemistry that's required. Sigh......I hate mixing and dating plus having to be keen enough not to be used again.

I'm not going that route for quite a while, maybe never.......that's just me though. wink

Btw, I'd find another group of friends, that one has too much drama.

Hugz,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/02/17 06:11 PM

Yes, they do. BUT they also were only a fraction of the 60 plus people present. I think I can avoid many pitfalls by listening to battle stories...
Most of which I already know, for example the lady who dated a gent who was no one she intended on long term with, just have my reasons confirmed.

It's different for every person, every situation. I understand it takes time, maybe never, but you have to keep being out there - men don't hide behind your bushes at home...
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/02/17 06:25 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
... - men don't hide behind your bushes at home...


Those are not the kind of men you really want to date long term! wink
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/02/17 08:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Blair
Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
... - men don't hide behind your bushes at home...


Those are not the kind of men you really want to date long term! wink


I certainly don't want ANYONE hiding behind or in front of my yard decorum. LOL!!!!

Well, I think true love takes time, especially after the 1st time. Before I got married, I had resigned myself to be single for life and was ok with that. Then boom.......thought I spelled it out correctly (I did, except for liking seafood part and the fact he thought Taco Bell was a good place to take a 1st date to dinner).

The part that was not within my control was his being sneaky and dishonesty. Lack of trust issues that he refused to correct.

For that reason, I feel truly betrayed. When I ask him to come clean (for several serious events), he refused. When he did, it was with a motive of him getting something out of it. I see that now as I reflect on our history. Sad......

When he says he is being honest, it does not sound or feel sincere. Then when his true motives or words spring forward, it is another cause for fear.

WST's last outburst was proof that still exists in his world.

Sorry to go off course but I surely don't want you to make that mistake.

See, no matter how proactive you can be, if the other person isn't honest and forthright, then any R is doomed from the start.

That's one of my reasons why I for now, choose to be ok with just me.

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/06/17 03:15 PM

If anyone is counting, I just finished placing my 2,506th tile into the mosaic. I could not get the herringbone to align, no matter HOW carefully I make the verticals. (The tiles are slightly larger or smaller - what a disaster!)

I finally got it all together, ran out of dark grey - waiting on shipping of one tile, just will not look balanced without it. So I had to break.

Only about 8 sq feet to go. Plus some corner cutting and edges. >>> Serious, serious, serious I should have went with tile. Cheaper and I would have been done days ago.
For about 2/3 price....

I really hate doing these porjects alone. The more wise I get about myself, the more I realize it was not the project I liked as much as working with xh on them. Yes, even the arguing! I wonder if the reason I am so attached to renovation, besides the obvious equity benefit, is that somehow I felt (feel) connected to that part of my past.

AND I wonder if I will be able to transfer that feeling with someone new. I am as independent as h#**, but also a very connected person, too.

So, I did get a huge second wind on Sunday - I really had a difficult time getting the pattern to flow - but I believe I did it well - well, I hid the corrections well.
Hopefully package arrive and I can finish main areas at least, tonight leaving only the edging.

I wish I could get photos up. Takes a bit of steps to update the blog.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/06/17 06:22 PM

Anxious to see how it all turns out. wink
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/06/17 10:32 PM

Me too!!!
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/06/17 11:55 PM

Me three!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/07/17 12:58 PM

Copied from social media:

1. Make peace with your past, so it doesnít spoil your present. Your past does not define your future Ė your actions and beliefs do.

2. What others think of you is none of your business. Itís how much you value yourself and how important you think you are.

3. Time heals almost everything, give time, time. Pain will be less hurting. Scars make us who we are; they explain our life and why we are the way we are. They challenge us and force us to be stronger.

4. No one is the reason for your own happiness, except you yourself. Waste no time and effort searching for peace and contentment and joy in the world outside.

5. Donít compare your life with othersí, you have no idea what their journey is all about. If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone elseís, we would grab ours back as fast as we could.

6. Stop thinking too much, itís alright not to know all the answers. Sometime there is no answer, not going to be any answer, never has been an answer. Thatís the answer! Just accept it, move on, NEXT!

7. Smile, you donít own all the problems in the world. A smile can brighten the darkest day and make life more beautiful. It is a potential curve to turn a life around and set everything straight.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/08/17 03:36 AM

Another small, but big victory....

So, my Lyric, wireless thermostat (that I love) kept going offline.
It's fabulous to check / control heat/ac anywhere you are - it automatically adjusts heat when you leave, when you come home - PLUS saves about $12 - $18 month in electricity...
Mine now keeps disconnecting from wifi. Messed with mine half the afternoon. Set up, falls offline, reset, offline - well, you get the picture. New batteries, 2x, resent wifi and re program app 2x, no resolution. Grrrrrrrrrr...

Second call to Honeywell, guy informed me that I had no "c" wiring connection from thermostat to my furnace. It would work on AAA battery for so long, but after a fashion stored energy depletes...blah, blah O quit listening.

Said I needed a completely new wire. (I had hooked up 4- he was calling for a 5 wire.)
Then he said, "Well, you will have to call a technician, but there is a way around this".
{He obviously does not know who he's talking to......}
-- I said "Ya?, Do tell."
He will have to move green "g" wire to "c" upstairs, then at furnace move said green wire to "c", then jump wire "g" and "y".
"That's IT??? Seriously? G! thanks!!!"
"Wait a minute, Ma'am! Please make sure you turn off power to...."
I assured him a know a little bit about wiring.... thanked him and hung up.

So far, so good. Online for about 4 hours now.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/08/17 03:45 AM

Wow.... major electrical changes to get your WiFi working with your thermostat!?! Seriously!! Who would have thunk it 30 years ago! Way to go!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/08/17 03:55 AM

Its amazing. I get 2 miles away, lowers heat to away setting. Come home? raises heat to presets.
Check temp anywhere my phone works - (for parrot - important, she can't get too cold). Also wetness sensors tell me if theres a flood or freezing conditions near pipes... calls my neighbors/handyman if theres an emergency.

Kind of like "HELP! I've fallen and I can't get up!" button for my house. I'm shocked I knew exactly what guy was telling me to do. Rather easy, if you know where to look. I'm sure saved $100 bill (would have trashed any savings for a year.)
I got one for my disabled sister for x mas. Liked it so much, I upgraded mine.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/14/17 12:48 PM

Posted this on another thread. Placing it here for reference.--

Many people will have you believe that there are things that a BS can do to turn, alter, control or basically redirect a WS actions. We would all like to believe that the BS can "change", make themselves more attractive, guilt, reason or beg the WS out of their current state and back into the marriage.

We want to believe the fantasy of forcing a reconciliation because--
It's scary as heck to realize that your entire life and future plans can be thwarted by someone else. Someone you trusted and loved. The sword of betrayal and abandonment cuts both ways.

We would all like to think we have affair proof marriages, divorce proof lives - (can we throw in financial and health proof guarantees/beliefs, too?)
My family and friends are shocked that xh behaved the way he did. To all appearances, he loved me to pieces. Up until the day he did not.

Truth is, and I hope you got the gist here, is that you really can't do anything to control another human being, including one that you are married to. I surely hope your WS (who by the way has A LOT of balls to become engaged as a married man.) Pulls his head out of his behind, but wishes and $3.00? That will get you a good cup of coffee.

Do not take on any blame in this frickin circus you currently call a life. BUT UNDERSTAND that it, for you anyway, is only a traveling circus, it will move on down the road soon. Please insulate yourself from his choices and know you can only do the best for yourself and family.
Posted By: TC_Manhattan

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/14/17 02:07 PM

Well said..
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/14/17 02:36 PM

Yes, and it doesn't ONLY apply to affairs. It applies to EVERY frickin thing. Just STOP. Stop trying to control your spouse. Your co-worker. Your child. Your sister. Your mother-in-law.

You are doing subtle violence to them and yourself every time you try to control them. And it's pointless besides. Get comfortable with the idea that YOU HAVE NO CONTROL over any of them or pretty much any thing.

You have wings to fly, but only if you open your hands, and stop trying to grab onto all the stuff that isn't YOURS to control...
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/15/17 04:05 AM

Miranda;
I was given a huge bit of adviceI'm simply trying to wrap my head around now.

Random post on a random board - but struck me between the eyes with a spark.

Only have about ONE foot left of corner to cut for my wall, over 3,000 pieces set. Just, could. not. do. anymore. tonight. Now, I can't sleep!

PS - I'm meeting with a book writer about painting his next book cover. His publisher gave me 60 days to finish. Brand new character, first edition in a series, so I have to get his "Captain Kirk meets the Highlander and Starship Troopers" good looks down.
Wowza...
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/15/17 09:29 AM

Great opportunity about the art work on the book! Can't wait to see your finished tile either.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/15/17 12:53 PM

WUD,

What an amazing opportunity! To get to create a character in the physical world.. wow!

So close to done on the tile... ugh, that last little bit just hanging there. I look forward to hearing you've reached the end of that journey.

And also look forward to hearing about what you've gained in terms of new wisdom. Those journeys are so fulfilling to me as well, as you can tell.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/15/17 06:20 PM

So unfair. My car is a diesel. Chevy should never make diesels. I put $250 - $700 a year in filters, sensors - YOU name it, into this piece of dirt.
Last month I had $7,000 (thankfully powertrain) repair- guess what? 2 weeks later ANOTHER diesel pump fails $750. This will be my cost -
making the car $2,300 worth of repairs (plus the $7,000) in the last 12 months.
My xh worked for this company and always negotiated the issues, many times directly to the lead eng. of the department.

I don't know what to do with this (knock wood) lemon. I'm sure they will give me nothing for it. I just paid it off in the settlement. I don't know what to do.
Everyone says get rid of it. But sooner or later the issues have to be fixed, right? I keep telling myself this.

So, now I have to make a decision. TODAY - I have to take the loaner back. I don't know if it's worth it....
Posted By: believer

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/15/17 09:40 PM

How old is your vehicle?

I had a truck that I poured money into for over a year. The last thing I had done cost $1200 and the mechanic assured me the truck would last for years.

I drove it 2 miles home and then got halfway to work the next morning when a hole blew through the engine. It was pouring down rain and I had to walk 3 miles to get to work. Then all of the tow companies were busy and a guy I worked with volunteered to call is triple A to get it towed. I told him he could have it.

He and a buddy put in a new block or something like that, and he's still driving the truck 10 years later. He's only done routine maintenance. Yeah, I already paid for everything else that could possibly fail.
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/16/17 01:52 AM

So many triggers with this!

If you're in love with the car and would like to keep it, maybe a good mechanic could advise you about what it might take to do that. Then you could decide if it was too much for you or not.

If you're not in love with the car, you could dump it and get a not-a-Chevy and not have to deal with the ongoing triggers.

Either way you choose will most likely involve doing some personal recovery work. Depends on the work you want to do more..... or which sucks the least.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/16/17 02:33 AM

My car mechanic told me a few years back that it was getting difficult to locate parts for my older model vehicle. He said it was time to start looking for another car before another round of repairs. My mechanic was wise.

I bought a newer car and put a few standard replacements like tires, brakes, and wipers. It has only cost me the oil changes with and tags/inspection fees and I've put 20,000 miles each year on it. It has been a life saver to have a car I know won't break down on me all the time like the last one.

I highly recommend what LW mentioned.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/16/17 06:54 AM

It is only 3 years old.

I keep thinking "sooner or later things got to get worked out" - but things keep happening.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/16/17 11:45 AM

You have an expensive lemon. You either have to make expensive lemonade in your situation, or buy a different car. Sorry.
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/16/17 12:21 PM

I didn't realize that the car was new. Check out the lemon laws. Even if it doesn't meet the criteria for being a lemon, you're not necessarily out of luck.

Here's one website to get you started:
www.lemonauto.com
Posted By: EarningIt

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/16/17 02:22 PM

WUD, I'm going to presume this the Chevy Cruz diesel. If so I found reference to an emissions recall on a bulletin board:

"I just received today a letter from GM saying that "my vehicle is involved in Emission Recall 15594", basically on some 2015 model year soot may build up on the engine's oxygen and NOx position 1 sensor causing the vehicle Check Engine Indicator to illuminate. Currently parts are not available but they're working as quickly as possible to correct this condition"

Ask about recalls when you pick it up.

Also ask how much you can get for it in trade (presuming you are getting it repaired by the dealership)
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/17/17 02:14 AM

Ha. Dealership, will not buy it, and basically wants me to give it to them for a few thousand, to get into a lease.

Had one warranty done (forgot about that add more to the pile.) I found a class action lawsuit with my make, year and model - GM engineers found guilty of editing/corrupting the testing software to show "eco friendly" emissions reports - then marketing the car as "green friendly." I have a call into the attorney - it is a recent filing.
-- Thank you for the heads up. Will do.
EI - never another GM... never. Enough problems (this is not my first rodeo with a GM or Saturn lemon.) This is the first time I've had no guidance or help..
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/17/17 02:16 AM

P.S. those Nox sensors? I've been through two -- they clog (if you do not run engine hot and long enough) - another screw up. At $300 each.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/17/17 02:17 AM

Dag- nub-it.
Posted By: TC_Manhattan

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/17/17 01:19 PM

Get rid of that thing and go buy a Ford. Live a happy life. grin

And diesel, why diesel? You're not hauling anything, right?
I would steer clear of diesels, even in a truck. My truck friends have warned me.
Unless, of course, you need to tow a house...

Just my two pennies. waves
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/17/17 02:56 PM

razz

F.O.R.D.
Found on road, dead.
Fix or repair daily.
How do you know when there is a Ford truck behind you?
{you hear a horn AND you see "the finger".}

I could go on and on. In D-Twoit, we have a million of them.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/17/17 03:00 PM

The diesel was ballyhooed as "progressive green" technology.
High MPG, "green friendly", reasonable gas -- joke.
They lied about the emissions results. They will pay.

Many diesel car engines (in Europe, mostly) run to 200,000 - 250,000 miles.
Posted By: Chrysalis

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/17/17 05:44 PM

I know you are in Detroit, but we've had great experience with the way Hyundai/Kia (same company) honor their long warranties. It's not a crime to buy a foreign car.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/17/17 05:55 PM

Same here, Chrys. My husband has had a very good experience with his Hyundai, and we love it so much I didn't think twice about buying my Kia.

We keep our cars FOREVER. My Saturn was over 16 years old when we let it go. But when we are ready to let his Hyundai go (it's almost 8 now), he's already said he will do another Kia (he really likes mine... he wants to steal it... lol)
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/17/17 06:58 PM

Need to lease DD a car for her internship in a transit-deprived suburb. What model Kia do you have?
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/17/17 07:06 PM

I have a soul. Safe, roomy, sporty, fun
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/17/17 10:03 PM

hhhhmmmmmmmmmmm.
Posted By: Chrysalis

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/17/17 11:03 PM

We just traded in our Hyundai with 92K miles on it for a Kia Soul + for our DD30. She LOVES it. And we got a great price. And I got to use it as a learning experience for her in how to go in to a dealership as a female, be straight about what you need and what you don't want, how to get the best price for your trade, and how to negotiate a good price for the car, while minimizing time in the showroom. Well sort of. We still spent 3 hours there even though we had agreed on price over the phone, had a firm trade price from CarMax, and had a great finance offer from our credit union. But I did show her how not to get horsed around, and she did get a great little car.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/18/17 11:56 PM

Hi. Hope everyone is doing well.
I rewired my furnace to thermostat. (4+ days of no heat - things get back online and my wifi thermostat kept falling offline.)
Could NOT get the darn thing to work (wifi set up needed 18/5 wire.) Looked easy.
Instead of horsing around, and frying the board - I called a tech.
He looked at my wiring, nodded said, "You going to put the cover door back on?"
I said not yet. He rolled his eyes. "Your furnace will not have power without doors in place, lady."
OMG. Hours of trying to figure out..... >sheesh. Put doors on, Viola! I'm not a screw up after all. $30 lesson... smile Really felt relieved but silly. Like walking around the house going, "derp. derp. derp."

Nice though the man also did handyman's type of jobs, saw my tub faucet in the box on the table, I had him install the drain and hook up the entire shebang. It would have taken me days to figure all that out.
Water on, no leaks! (I was worried about my PEX connections - plastic plumbing, basically, behind the wall.... phew - no issues so far. I'll keep the access area open for a few days to make sure!) He even ran to the hardware store-- for $70.
I consider that a deal!

Today I got the tub walls grouted and cleaned up. P.S. the new epoxy grouts are about 10x the cost, BUT last the lifetime of stone, never stain and never need to be sealed... worth every penny I say. Tricky to install, but no impossible to master.
I hate grouting (wringing sponges- carrying buckets. I can't feel my hands...bad wrists...)
I even put the window sill back on and put on a plaster "skip" coat to match the back wall on a small side wall -- and think I'm about to fall over.
Caulk and.... omg..... it's done, besides touch up paint and new access door in the closet...
It feels weird to finally have it at this point.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/19/17 01:19 AM

.....................and another email about the old poop boots. {xh wants to meet up to exchange muck boot. >>>>> EEEf him.}

Apparently being ignored does not suit him. Although his email seemed short - I deleted.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/19/17 06:57 AM

Too bad about XH missing the dogs new chew toy. (Sucks to be him!) Excellent idea to ignore him.

Glad you figured out the doors needed to be back on. A few days without power feels like years....
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/19/17 02:03 PM

Rum soaked raisin, pineapple/coconut/carrot cake with dried rum cranberries and rum pecans. Nutmeg cream cheese frosting... No one is leaving here walking straight.

Stuffed peppers, stuffed cabbage and salad - to balance out all this polish food.

Made in between grouting runs.... To think, I used to cook like this every weekend.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/19/17 11:56 PM

Wow and to think I was going to make cinnamon rolls......your dessert sounds way more fun......to eat. smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/20/17 12:13 AM

Basically a glorified carrot cake, but extremely delicious.

So, I noticed my handyman obviously did something wrong on my faucet, I have some water showing up behind the wall in the access. Drat.
No good deed, eh? The handy guy is a elderly veteran, I didn't mind at all paying him to come over and help me out with the furnace or faucet. Even if his help is telling me I forgot to shut the furnace door before attempting to expect power.

So, somehow I got into a text conversation with a licensed plumber. He asked questions, had me send photos of area, to give a ballpark estimate. He said "I'd like to know whats behind the tile -- I thought "Dude, hold on, I got this." 10,000 construction photos.

Showed him the rough in from the plumbing/reset on. The plumber text; "THIS was done by your retired handyman? I'm shocked. I'm pretty retentive on plumbing set ups, and that looks incredible for a non plumber."
blushing

When I explained, rather embarrassed, that I did the tear out, rough in, replacement and plumbing, and if the problem was with the PEX connection, it was all on me, blush he was pretty incredulous.

Here is hoping that it is a mis adjusted cylinder and an easy to reach connector. I could probably do this myself, but I am so sick of this project (4 days without power really took it's toll) I'm ready to give up.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/20/17 03:30 AM

You're awesome at this fix-it stuff! I'm positive you could fix it. But if you're exhausted, no harm paying someone else to do it.

The cake sounds fantastic. My daughter's all-time favorite is Rum Cake. I'll have to look for a recipe of yours to try out.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/20/17 04:00 PM

http://allrecipes.com/recipe/8270/sams-famous-carrot-cake/

OK.
#1. Turn the heat down. 350 will burn the cake. Try 325 check every 10 minutes after first hour.
#2. Soak raisins, dried cranberries and coconut in rum overnight. Drink all excess rum. {yes, what's left in bottle.}
#3. Add 1/4 t. ground cloves if you want it "earthier".

Cream cheese frosting; Make as usual but grate a touch of fresh nutmeg in frosting.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/20/17 04:11 PM

Here we go.
I got a safety recall to UNDO the last safety recall of last fall (??? huh?) Setting it to prior settings to "band aid over" check engine light issues until permanent resolution found.

Apparently the Diesel issue that Chevy has is WORSE than the diesel exhaust issue that VW had. VW = 10x emissions, GM = 13x emissions.

Since xh was the official owner who bought the vehicle, he had to buy a car every two or three years as per his work agreement for me.. - But I drove/paid for it - and I "was awarded/took it" in the divorce and paid it off...

I am expecting to keep it until the expected buyback. I hope xh does not try to horn in on this, saying he was "the original owner" of the vehicle. Just another thing to wonder about... shoot.

What a mess.

Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/20/17 10:40 PM

Woo hoo. Any VW know it all's in the crowd?
I did sign up with a law firm. I was directed to look at the VW settlement with very similar diesel issues. I never heard of this suit. They, VW, are buying back 400,000 cars?

I know the GM emission ratio is higher (VW 10x over EPA limits, GM 13.5x over EPA limits.) So, the emissions is higher and nastier.
From what I understand, now, the best benefit would be to keep the car and have it bought back, if that is part of the settlement. Yes, I still would get something for the false advertising if I did sell,
Because how I was bamboozled into buying it in the first place, but that means I keep that car and gamble with the bills that go with it....

Since this last bill is paid, I hope I have awhile to think this through.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/23/17 02:48 AM

I feel like I'm talking to myself, here. >he. crazy

Have to brag. Craigslist again. Looking to scale back my living room furniture. I want to sell a sofa and get comfortable, design appropriate "ladies" sitting chair + otto.
Located an Ethan Allen reclinable Mercer tufted + otto in a city 2 hours away. Had to rearrange my life - seller would not hold for one day. angry Architectural digest ranked this chair "top ten" for tufted design..who knew there even was such a thing? .. so you know I HAD to follow up.

Two hour drive to get it - NOT the color she described. Really a "Woven seaglass" -green - not neutral gray ... hrmph! Needs cleaning - but really not too bad. Got home, went to Ethan Allen site -- dance $2,806 plus delivery to order the exact same set.
Not bad for $200 and a beautiful evening drive.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/23/17 03:01 AM

Wow, that sounds really beautiful! You did great on finding the set, getting a screaming deal and a workable neutral color. You can always repaint now that you saved $2600!
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/23/17 03:33 AM

I'll share my furniture bargain. Many years ago, H & his sister developed a passion for going to locker auctions. Shipping container auctions were also on their list.

I hated those things. Not a way I wanted to spend my Saturday morning, Friday nights and more. I was a young mom and wanted to spend time with my little son.

Ok, so I was dragged to another auction, out comes this green solid maple 6 - drawer dresser shrink wrapped. Seems the people decided not to pick up this dresser. It was hand painted and wrapped......as perfectly clean as it could be sitting in a storage warehouse.

Bid opened at: $1.00 and we bought it for $6.00.

Put it in son's room and it matched.....his color scheme was primary colors....who knew!??!!? Today that now over 20 year old chest of drawers (probably more like 40 years), is sitting in my room. I need to get it refinished and will be a task I need to schedule in one day. Memories..... I don't want to part with it even though it doesn't match my furniture. Who cares......it's in my room who's going to enter anyway? Such control and weird color schemes. LOL!!!!!

Just sharing,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/23/17 01:00 PM

Blair:
It has become a game with me, this extreme bargain shopping. What started out as a necessity has become a game, now I have to curb the obsession, or at least play the game 1 item in the house, 2 items out.

Being an artist, I appreciate artisans and well made anything. I don't carry this onto personal items tho - will frequently wear "bargain" or casual clothes, I never "do my nails", rarely wear make up, cut my hair every 3 months or so -- but I like top of the line (well, middle class top of the line) items for my home.

I think it chaffed my ego from the ousting from my "dream home" I have fully realized that I can find a comfortable middle ground, with a little ingenuity and research. I never had a $2800 Ethan Allen sitting chair before.... now I do.

Orchid:
I absolutely love the idea of a shed sale. Never been to one, but I watched them on tv. We live in such a disposable society, a find is still a great find! Then one day when you have more energy than common sense, you will roll up your sleeves and paint it again....
The one thing my European friends say is we Americans throw away much too much stuff. It surprises them how we have to have "new" all the time.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/23/17 01:10 PM

I have the absolute FONDEST memories of making "something out of nothing" and furnishing with finds from my early broke days.

I had a flair for it, did well for myself in several living locations, and was of enormous aid to my friends and my brother too!

The things I found by the side of the road! You would not believe the things I picked up by the side of the road and turned into perfectly wonderful furnishings.

I'd love to be able to do more of that kind of stuff some day.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/27/17 06:26 PM

Well, the living room looks fabulous, like out of a Cape Cottage magazine, but the front porch is crowded with the removed sofa.

Started sketching on my book cover hero. I started with Ron Livingston's eyes, but Brendan Fraiser's lower face assembly, because it is way more expressive. I wound up with ..... Kevin Costner? WTH? hahaha. I like it enough to put it on a canvass.

So off to the art supply store I go.

Still trying to get my brain around a few recovery concepts. I'm reading a bit about moving on. I absolutely know that the best thing that could have happened, did happen for me. Had my XH came back at all I would have accepted unacceptable behavior.

He knew it as well as I did. I'm glad I can ignore contact, it does send me thinking, but I am content to simply delete it.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/27/17 06:44 PM

Part of the reason I have had such a traumatic time "moving on", is that I had a basic belief that life will never be better than it was with the WS.

My "old" life with my family. My support system. My ideas about retirement years. I miss my family every day. That is natural. I have to accept that is normal and put that thought to the side.

It's not so much my attachment to WS that anchored me, and made me afraid to let go, but the entire concept of my future. For a long time all I could see was a hope at reconciliation.

I put no real effort into creating a happy resolution to this situation for me. I couldn't, and still can not, see one clearly.

Questioning what I really currently presume to be true is intimidating. You have to be really quiet and honest with yourself. That means things that I trusted were facts were illusions. Shattering that strongly held belief takes something new.

Not until the day I can visualize a better forecast for myself can I truly start moving on. Not only in words and actions but accept it as a basic core belief.
So, to help do this, besides time, I was advised to look back into CBT and challenge the basic thoughts that I still hold as true.

Take those thoughts and question their validity. For example: try to intercept negative thoughts or beliefs and interchange them with a more helpful or positive idea or belief. Focus on the new thought and hopefully thoughts become actions and actions become feelings.

Those are some thoughts I have been mulling.

Posted By: TC_Manhattan

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 03/27/17 08:58 PM

Sounds a little bit like Byron Katie's stuff.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/05/17 02:35 PM

Keeping things rolling. I have this week off for spring break, I have a huge list of items to do. I plowed through the majority of the bigly things, I think I'm "about over" home renovations.
I caulked and clean up bathroom, now finishing up the "false back" of the closet that serves as an access to the rough in. I'm leaving as big as panels open, just covered with MDO, because I did find mold growing there, and I would like it easy to access and check in the future.

The basement scab was ridiculous. Try hammering in a double joist with about 2" to swing a hammer! I don't know how the inspector missed this, but they cut the original support joist for the toilet waste pipe, leaving the joist and the floor drooping. No, not kidding.

STILL not bad for a house this age, but I can't sister to the joist because the joist next to is it interrupted by the heating vent! (though that was at least single scabbed in 1926.) So, I can't find any long term solutions that will pass code,

I decided to jack up, then scab the toilet waste pipe issue for now, you can only raise a house floor dip about 1/8" a week, so I have been supporting that sagging joist with a floor jack for about a year. It is now level, time for next step.

I also located a low area under the front of the tub (it drops about 3/4 inch!) and in the basement I started an upper brace and new series of 3 floor jacks, 3 joists apart to raise and support that area. Cranking slowly, I will probably put in the support wall this late summer. when level. Cheap, strong, functional solution.

DD23 is flipping out, but this is really a basic and pretty small issue for a house of this age.

My thinking is a stud wall spanning 6 joists that can be used to support the floor and slightly block the view of the new plumbing. I would make it a shelve/laundry folding area.
Know what THAT MEANS??? Hammer shot tool. A gun, a bullet and a nail.

Again, I know I'm really going to need a structural engineer out here before I
decide any more daring feats of daring do. To remove the temporary jacks and install prober posts requires a footing and the floor to be cut, dug then poured into floor.
If I go to all that trouble, I am sure going to have an engineer tell me the structurally most advantageous locations.

These few steps I'm taking will be temporary bur certainly stop any more damage.
Daughter wants me to "Sell, take the money and buy a place that does not need all the work!" but I am cutting the corner of the work I plan on doing.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/05/17 07:08 PM

Wow WUD, all that work makes me nervous.

After living at the house that sinks then cracks, it makes me want to live on a level piece of land but on this rock, who knows what is level today may not be tomorrow.

In that house, they replaced 3 horizontal large supports for the house and replace the cement on I believe 3 of the posts holding up the house. They build crazy out here and on an elevated slope no less.

Right now I live on a slab built house and it has it's own problems galore. I swear it is rusting from the inside out and all around. I mean, when was the last time you say a chain link gate post rust off so that the gate falls off at a touch? Then there is the rust showing up on the edging around the sinks in both bathrooms and other places. Yet they only fix stuff one at a time.

I'd like to move to a house that doesn't have so much wrong with it.

I know you have invested a lot into yours and want to see it through to enjoy it for a while. I truly admire your strengths and talents.

Take care,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/05/17 07:25 PM

I can imagine the environment is brutal on brick and mortar where you are, O2.

My house is getting to be the way I want it, coming together really well. Do I complain here, but I very much enjoy the work. I still am not happy with the way the tile mosaic came out - but that could be the cold, too.

The list of "to do's" is getting shorter, and I smile when I enter, that is more important to me than shopping for clothes, make up, whatever. I must have "nester" in my nature. Unlike those other things, I feel every penny I have put into this place will come back to me tenfold. Tiny not updated house 4 houses away sold for $75,000 more than I paid for this in a week. I'm 2x the living space and updated.

Today
I have acute bronchitis. That is probably dragging me down.

I feel very proud of this place. I'm supposed to finish the closet/liner today - but all I can do is lay like a lump in bed. No table saw on codeine meds. Doctor hooked my up with tons of meds -- lets hope they work wonders.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/05/17 07:36 PM

It's not as bad as I'm making it sound, I guess. My foundation and structure are in super shape, its just the creaky dipping floors that need the support. Many people "finish" a basement in an older house just to eliminate this problem (ever wonder why there are so many basement walls directly under center joist, chopping the space in half? I now know!!

Life is good, and if I have exhausted the funds or energies on the house I'm sure I will make up for it up later...
Posted By: Oblivious2678

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/06/17 01:41 PM

What do you recommend for soft spots in a hardwood floor?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/06/17 06:34 PM

Like squeaky areas?
Like the subfloor has slightly moved away from the joist, and your weight pushes it down, making noise?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/06/17 06:46 PM

If its a newer house, locate the spot (bouncy, I imagine).
Screw from basement up into the wood slat. If the slats are moving and rubbing.
or
If its carpet cut 1/2 hole and drill wood screws down.

If the squeak is the sub floor separating from joist --
In the basement locate area, slip the tip of a shim covered with glue in the gap between joist sub floor.
-- Do not force the shim into place - you will increase the gap.

If like mine, the integrity of the joist has been compromised by cutting (or cracking or sagging)
Find the sag and floor jack, but realize jacks are temporary, once level, I'm putting in a stud wall for support to disperse the weight. Permanent posts need cement footing installed.

Modern HUGE tubs and granite counters were not the standard awhile ago. They have caused a lot of issues.
P.S. "This Old House" online has excellent advice that is practical about fixing this stuff.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/08/17 02:21 AM

Beautiful day here in D-Twoit. We treat opening day like St. Patrick's Day, but Orange and Blue.
Walked to town to a bar, Chris Osgood (he was "kinda" a good goalie in hockey for the Wings) is just sitting there, talking to people. Really interesting guy.

Free dogs, cheap beer, nice "single" meet up group. Had something weird happen. Small group this time 16 or so - but WHY do older men feel like it's OK to put sexual innuendo into every comment? So gross. At one point I asked "What was the question?" some dude across the table says "The question is who is bisexual..." like it was a hysterical thing to say. I will add I have no idea what they were talking about at that end of the table before.

I saw a lady my age actually flinch across the table, so my teacher stink eye mode rolls in. "That's just rude. Who are you talking to? You don't know me.. gross."
The guys just thought it was funny and laughed it off.

Yes, I know most here will say "blow it off" - but after the game was over 4 of us ladies were left, they are veterans of that meet up system - they say most of the men they meet are dogs.
The one who I clipped his ears, I found out had done that before, so I did not feel that bad - I had a really good time, but the conversation got really depressing.

The lady my age (flincher) said all she had were terrible experiences, and she liked to attend the group for the social interactions. She looked so resolved in her choice. She was attractive, looked like Martha Stewart type lady put through some wringer. I really felt sorry for her.

I heard terrible "nightmare dates" that the other two had had - and I left feeling very dejected. I have had a little luck, but hoped things would get better with patience. This is a professional group of "singles", and in years they have had similar stories.

Is it them? Or is it me? I don't want to be a nurse, a purse or treated like an object. It seems these men-boys get away with atrocious things - and act like it's a big BIG joke if you object. I tell you, if I had the same situation and some dude said the same thing to me - I'd have slugged them outright.

Do men think the same thing about women? I go to these things and see educated, attractive competent ladies everywhere - the dudes are not on the same playing field, to put it nicely. It would be sad to think it is as depressing as they claim.

Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/08/17 06:11 AM

Reality is that in 'packs' often the need to up each other even in the gross and rude direction takes front and center. Take a look at what prompted the recording of that 'grab a p.....' statement. Maybe alone it wouldn't be said to a woman but with a bunch of guys, the temptation and loose lips just can't resist.

So here is a line I came up with.........

T's loose lips sinks ships......
What kind?
Partnerships, relationships, friendships
Does he care?
Of course not.

I think persons (yep, all folks) should seek out establishments that have a more respectful environment. Is it possible? How to find those places and spaces?

Out here we have a kind of group that meets to do things like learning to cook or other arts. I haven't attended but they do sound interesting.

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/08/17 12:17 PM

WuD I have run into a lot of the same kinds of folks with the online dating. Plenty of Fish. My theory is that too many years of "serve yourself what you want" porn has ruined them for the moment but repentance would fix it in time. I recently went to a Chris Rock show and he talked about how it messed up his thinking and he had to overcome it. I was amazed at his insight and honesty.

So I tried to think where would the men be that weren't affected and I think men with their spirituality intact like Christian Mingle and JDate. I tried Christian Mingle and a different set of men were sending messages. I'd recommend it.

Or for the meetup thing how about one with a purpose other than entertainment?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/08/17 01:35 PM

Great input. Thank you.

The meet ups "happy hours" are usually what I am looking for at this point, decompress, pleasant company with locals. I primarily just people watch and keep an eye out for new friends. These gents who "troll" can usually easily be put in their place and shouldn't deter what was otherwise a good time.

Funny thing about those "religious" dating sites. They are the most hypocritical, too.

Last year I checked out "Catholic Match" (remember XH was a 4th degree Knight of Columbus and I an "Lady Knight") -- sound OK, until you get into the chat / conversation feature.
I was shocked - that they allowed such bigoted, "right wing" talk about the election and women and Democrats. Yeah I know that the right and churches have many similar platforms and goals- but they lost it for me with the side conversations.

I'm sure not all people on these sites are like that, but I found there is a connection between "Christian dating marketing" and someone who needs to advertise themselves in that way that is weird. Just my opinion. No intend to insult anyone.

I imagine some men might feel the same way, I don't know. I assume those people keep showing up for some reason!
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/08/17 08:23 PM

I'd recommend finding someone or some group that shares similar interests. Maybe a site should be called 'common points', where one can find groups instead of individuals who have shared interests.

I think it is like: the fun bunch lunch group at meetup (dot) com.

There's even a lunch bunch group for school counselors.

Just a suggestion. Not something I can do right now anyways, nor interested to but I did hear about it before.

I think as long as you good in your own skin, that's what counts. Who you let into your life, that's also within your control.

Keep it that way.

Take care,
Orchid
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/08/17 09:01 PM

WuD I'm sorry to hear that the political has taken hold of those sites like that. And can understand why you don't want to be around folks at their worst like that. I get wanting to relax and recharge over happy hour instead of taking on another cause after you already give back so much to your community every week with your vocation teaching children.

I like Orchid's idea of an interest group.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/09/17 09:30 AM

Wud,

I gotta tell you about what happened today.

Remember, we moved into this house of horrors (maintenance horrors). Ok, the plumber came out twice but still we have issues.

1. Hot water in the afternoon comes out of the cold water faucets. Hot not warm. Lasts from about 12:30 - 6pmish. Takes about 3 minutes of fast running water to get mildly cool. - Can't fix that, calling my client who is a plumber to come take a look. He suspects problems with the solar water setup. He is probably right.

2. Master bath tub doesn't drain well. Got worse in fact and I have a strainer, so I know it's not our stuff clogging the tub.

Sigh, I don't like to use chemicals in the pipes. What to do.

I find this product at the hardware store called Plumb-Away. I asked the guy in the plumbing dept about it. He says he uses it. Gives me instructions (remove the the overflow cover and cover it with a towel) and follow the instructions.

So I clean the tub, pull out some of the blockage just inside the drain (handmade throw away chop stick, paperclip and some electrical tape). Then my son goes in to use this product. I tell him the instructions from the hardware store guy. A couple of swooshes later, our drain is cleared.

Very proud of my son for getting this done. We did it ourselves. Our tub doesn't have a lever to stop the drain, just a screwed in cover. So it was easier to take off and stop up with a towel.

Point is that it is a good product to use without chemicals. The guy recommended I use another product after for hair and grease removal. I bought it but didn't have to use it.

That one box had 8 uses. So for $25.00, we've got 6 more uses if needed.

I think that is a bargain.

Just wanted to share what worked for us. I'm not great at this house repair stuff like you but we are plugging along.

While cleaning son spotted a place in now our living room via a tiny hole in the wall by the ceiling where the ants are coming out. He sprayed the hole with Terro and then we used orange spray and hydrogen peroxide to spray the trail all the way to the kitchen. Those pesky ants.

The pest control folks are suppose to come out on Thursday and Friday for inspection and cleaning out the bird's nests in the attic and hopefully get rid of these ants.

Ok........waiting for tomorrow's challenge. LOL!!!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/09/17 12:34 PM

Put toothpaste in the hole. Sounds like they may like eating tt - but it should harden and block access.

Good news about the plumbing. Backed up pipes give me the willies. I had new plumbing put in, and I still had to have a pump "up" pump put on the laundry - to circumvent the 90 year old drainage pipes. Thank goodness city sewer was put in a few years ago.
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/09/17 03:28 PM

Our pest control came by and I said I had gnats coming out of the kitchen drain. He said they feed on leftover food stuck to the walls of the pipes; gave us a bottle of InVade BioDrain from Rockwell Labs. Pour it in, wait an hour, rinse with hot water. No harsh chemicals. It says you can also use it anywhere you have odors.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/09/17 11:39 PM

Gotta tellz ya this one.

Met a guy for coffee. Sounded like an excellent opportunity, in fact. He was educated, artistic enjoyed a creative career, seemed a happy person and attractive. > check, check, check and check.

I got there, he interrupted, drug the conversation over hell and high water, bragged about his creative prowess. I enjoyed talking with him, though, the parts I got input, that is. smile

I think he considered himself possibly a contemporary of mine...

Besides being an "excellent" musician, dad, remodeler, woodworker, designer he told me he "painted on weekends". (...ok !! smile .)

He asked to see a photo of my kitchen remod - he saw it and said; "ok.." - { but really in a nice way}- he used that to segue into his own photos of his remold/ painting.

As he pulled up a picture of his latest painting (a gift for a friend) he proudly showed it to me. "I like to paint flowers." he said. I'm glad he told me it was flowers - looked more like bacteria growing. eek
It seriously looked like a fourth grader - hopped up on pop rocks painted it. Bad in a bad way - not a Grandma Moses kind of primitive. bad. stinkaroo.

How I did not choke on my coffee or sputter I will never know.
"nice", I said -- looking around for the "You're Punked!" cameras.
Personally, I would have burnt the canvas and buried the ashes in a cat box before I claimed it.
-- I did tell him of my painting group back in my old city... I hope he goes out there...

He obviously only wanted compliments - knew zero about "colors" - but would take no advice, not even general advice -- I have 8 years visual arts education experience -- but he "knew it all." lol {art teacher humor} lol

Well, he did buy lunch.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/10/17 02:19 AM

Free lunch AND entertainment! smile
Posted By: Oblivious2678

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/10/17 01:04 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Like squeaky areas?
Like the subfloor has slightly moved away from the joist, and your weight pushes it down, making noise?


Weight pushes it down and makes noise.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/10/17 01:36 PM

I would avoid the meetup groups that meet at bars and go for the ones organized around an activity. Hiking. Gaming. Book club. Maybe they have at art meetup?

Some of the hiking groups go to lunch together after the hike. That way you can do both.

But I am thinking the guys who sign up for happy hour meetup are looking to score at the meetup. Especially if you are new to the group, they are going to explore if you have weak boundaries. That makes you a likely "target". So yes, I would expect that the "new girl" at any meetup organized around happy hour can expect to get lots of sexual innuendo thrown in her face. Sad but true.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/10/17 02:37 PM

OBL'
Then you probably have a wooden joist with a swollen/raised subfloor. The sub has lifted itself off the nail, and stepping on the floor causes the sub to Squuuueeeeeek up and down that nail.
this is easy to locate.

Have a "jumper" stay upstairs and step on the step - while you, in the basement identify the spot. See if you can slip the tip of a screwdriver between joist and subfloor easily. Sometimes you can even see the gap starting. If you can, that's your man.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/10/17 02:44 PM

Hoti:

Screw them. Yes, we are single, some are ready to mingle, but many just show up to kavitz <sp? with the other gals, like me.
Happy hour wine prices don't hurt, either.

That's not how you talk to a group in public. Were not barbarians! Yes, you are right. Maybe because we are in a bar gives people liberty to think they can "creep", but I imagine it happens in any singles group.
I've only been 4 times, but I've never even been close to finding someone I'd date - but I have met some really nice people, ( for example, the gent who sat next to me Friday, could call out any baseball stat you wanted. He knew future games, who was playing who -- HOW THE he** does he KEEP that info straight? He kept laughing at me because I would give him an incredulous look... ) -- much better than watching the game on tv.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/10/17 05:47 PM

Kibbitz?

Yes, I think there are creepers in any group but I think the outside activity tends to reduce the ability to "trap" you. At a table at a bar you have to literally get up and walk away to escape them. If you are doing something else besides sitting and talking you can always just focus on the activity and tune them out without appearing rude. Not that rude isn't called for or available at need. But you might appreciate having alternatives short of overt aggression to disconnect from creepers.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/11/17 01:25 AM

I joined a networking group for business owners and professionals. Gets me out of the "single" meet up mindset and, hey- I am an artist that has work all over the USA. I could take a few commissions.
If everybody tries to sell me AVON or leggings - I'm out of there! BUT good idea/

It's my lady-knight in shining armor syndrome. I'm more loyal than smart, even though I know Im plenty smart- you guys know this about me.

I saw the lady across the table flinch, she looked shy. Makes me step up. Probably from being picked on as a kid (yes, believe it or not) and my role as a teacher in a lab class that people have to feel comfortable to be creative.


OBL: I get most of my repair info from trusted sources, but I was looking at the squeaky floor thing - they sell all sorts of clamps, braces, lifts and dead men to help you resolve. I didn't know (the shim is still the first step most recommended.

Now I'm putting in metal cross braces, structurally significant and really reasonable.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/26/17 04:03 PM

Some forward good news.
VW fully complied and apologized for the fraud written into the software of their diesel cars. This issue was settled in court last year, but the company has done an unusual step of admitting 100% accountability.
GM used the same software in my diesel car. That car has been a total headache, it would be wonderful if they had to buy it back, they are trying to get full priced returns for the owners.
Even though GM threatens to fight 'til the end, the VW case sets a clear precedent. So maybe I'm looking at a year or two instead of four. that small car was so expensive, @32,000 it would be worth some patience.

To finish signing up with attorney, class action, I will have to get actual date of sale and purchase price of car. XH handled it. I will put money on a bet that he is going to be difficult about it.
-- Dealership will not provide anything but service records, they did not even want to provide those at first. -- There has to be another way around, but since he actually bought the car (he always took the day off to do so) I don't remember the details... >sigh.
There has to be another way.

But it is encouraging news - I doubt anyone will buy those cars used - they have been given such terrible press. I can't afford to give it away.

Besides that, nothing really new going on. Working on that book cover, coming along well, need to finish a few more organizing jobs around the house, (HOW does the basement get so full so fast?) and I will be all set!




Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/26/17 05:43 PM

Do a carfax
Posted By: EarningIt

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/26/17 06:06 PM

Secretary of State. They should be able to get the actual sales price. It is what they based the sales tax on.

I don't suppose you checked the glove box. Some anal retentive engineer types keep stuff like that in the glove box.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/26/17 06:45 PM

There was employee discount and an additional incentive at the time of purchase. All employee incentives are not equal. I know what the base price of this car is/was. What HBSSLAW is looking for is actual (to the penny, include the fancy floor mats) type of info.

Also any extra road coverage - maintenance policies purchased COULD be included.

Thanks, EI I'll check that out.

I certainly hope that, like VW, GM buys the cars and disable them. For example: VW has tens of thousands sitting on lots, no one wants to tough those cars if you have emissions checks.

Mine has had 10,000 in rework on the diesel system alone - the dealership says "it's great now!" - but I seriously have my doubts....
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/26/17 09:27 PM

I was going to say that if you are the current title holder, then DMV or SoS should be able to get you title records back to initial sale by dealer.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/26/17 10:54 PM

That's what I'm probably going to have to do. The concept of contacting XH at all gives me a sense of disgust and sort of dread.

It will not give extended service agreements, Upgraded matts and tire contract etc. but it is probably not worth the bother.
Additionally, I blew him off big about his poop boot - dunno


I do have contacts at the financial institution who know we were married, I'm sure they can look up vehicle loan and give me an origination date, too. I just HATE having to explain things.

EI - you were right I found original window sticker in glove. Does not give me discount/rates, but good enough for price...
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/26/17 11:08 PM

I bought my first used car this year. Discovered who the owner is because her bluetooth still showed up and learned where she liked to go because all her GPS locations were still loaded, lol.
Posted By: Kayla

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/27/17 12:02 AM

Then don't explain THAT part. Just go up to the person you know and tell them, I'm needing the original loan documents on my car - it's GM emissions issues and I want to be prepared."

You'll have them lickity-split
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/27/17 01:08 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Additionally, I blew him off big about his poop boot - dunno



Exactly as you should!!!

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
I do have contacts at the financial institution who know we were married, I'm sure they can look up vehicle loan and give me an origination date, too. I just HATE having to explain things.


A blend of several ideas posted would help. But you can go work your magic with the financial institutions and get through it all faster. smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/27/17 12:40 PM

Yeah, even considering email is not setting well with me.

And I am still perplexed why I still miss my marriage. I seriously need to have my head examined. Don't worry, my head and common sense override any "hopium" I may have smoked, but, there is still a huge sense of loss that does not seem real to me.

I am so angry with the EPA closing the Great Lakes branch. Anyone who lives in this 5 state area KNOWS how polluted and dangerously close to disaster the waterways here were.
My last house was surrounded by dumping grounds for manufacturing 1940's - 1970's. No one will pay to clean it up - but they have erected privacy fence around, planted trees that all died and still deliver bottled water to all the houses that are connected on the well water system. Mine was 3 houses away from the "hazardous water zone houses" yes, I had a well - we sold 3 months before it all came out.

In addition NOW we have this disgusting invasive Japanese Carp (the one that "flies" - jumps out of the water, hillbillies down south get fishing nets, wearing helmets because they CAN knock you out if they hit your face) and have "air fishing rodeos". People have been knocked out and more than one report of accidental drowning in the water, boat running amuck, unmanned, because a 16 lb flying carp took out the driver, you are supposed to pay attention and duck.

Yes, alcohol may have been a contributing factor, but that's just a wild guess.

As a region we have to continue to have HUGE regulations to make sure that they are not introduced into our waterway system-by intent or via accident by boat live wells, into the Great Lakes. Plus Erie was technically "dead" from plant run off. It has taken decades to get it "living" again. The only thing that lives well there now are walleye, a few perch and Sheephead, another disgusting, bottom feeding carp - but at least that has the decency to stay submerged.

Every registered Republican in my state should have Flint city water delivered directly into their home and be forced to drink it (but their kids can have good water) until the current administration goes.
-- but, I'm just called an alarmist.....nothing to worry about here....

Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/27/17 12:57 PM

We had a Superfund site next to our neighborhood. They had signs all along the creek that went through there to not fish from it; people did it anyway. One of our neighbors had a son die by a mysterious cancer. And the next child they had had a learning disability. At first they gave the residents a lump sum, supposedly to move out; one of my coworkers got the money and bought a hot tub and stayed. Eventually, they made everybody move, raized the homes and the elementary school, dug everything up. Supposedly remediated the land. Now there's a whole new subdivision there. *shudder*
Posted By: Oblivious2678

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/27/17 01:05 PM

I felt like I was watching Erin Brockovich all over again while reading your post. I'm a Great Lakes person too. The manufacturing waste disgusts me and then the cover up...ugh.

Is it fair to say that you are missing a companion, someone to share adventures with, more than actually missing the marriage itself?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/27/17 01:34 PM

CP:
That makes me sick. Our children are going to inherit the chemical toilet we are making out of our lands. I'm NOT a hippy, either, but there is no "plan b" earth.

I grew up by the Shaiawassee (check history, dairy farms and chemical dumping) moved next to DTE/GM chem land, now I'm watching the watchdog get euthanized.
------
Interesting how people refute science....

Some of my neighbors mostly moved, a few of the houses were abandoned, but other people moved back in a few years later, one family built a McMansion right next to that area! I want Mc Crack in that Mc milkshake. I would have abandoned. If they refuse to buy you out, but say "Here's bottled water for you to drink every day", that should be a real big red flag.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/27/17 01:41 PM

OBL:
I'm more loyal than intelligent. I have said before; Catholic, Polish and raised by Marine. Trifecta of loser Lancelot. I still miss him, at least how I used to remember him for 30 years.
Apparently, this is a common relationship dynamic, needy people attract people willing to support them, constantly shoveling attention into what you find out is a pit.

I've watched too many people suffer and die around me to give up on anyone. I've lived around and next to mental illness to not be affected by it, I also teach around a myriad of, to put it nicely, are not normal behaviors. I trust in people, no matter how screwed up they can be. Just like my dad, who often said "People are no damned good." - but liked them anyway.
'das me.

Now, at least, my instinctual gut outrage at xh antics refuse to let me follow down that merry chase of hopium or any contact - ever - That includes hope that he will be decent for our kids. I can't imagine a father who would financially abandon his biological daughters for garbage like used cars or medical co pays.

I still think about him every day in some fashion, sometimes way too much.

Any other statement would be a lie. Menomics do not work for me, I'm glad they work for others....

Posted By: Oblivious2678

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/27/17 02:05 PM

So you've learned to tolerate A LOT. I do too. Does part of you still think you can fix him?

To me, your progress has shown you as not a needy person. I see your progress as inspiring. You take the bull by the horns and get things done.
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/27/17 06:12 PM

WuD I don't know what to tell you about XH. It has taken me so many years. I've had so many slips before I remarried. Thankfully I'm so hopped up on my new guy I don't think about the old one like I used to. I wanted to get to that point on my own and suspect I would have. Just observe the thoughts and say goodbye and refocus on the present. But it may always feel like a limb missing I don't know. I'm happy for you at least you're not breaking NC. That's the best thing.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/27/17 06:57 PM

WD & CP,

Thanks for sharing your true life stories on the environmental front. It's hard to get those details with all the other crap going on.

Truly what man and his business adventures have done to the environment in your areas and others is appalling. To scale back the EPA & put a guy in charge who doesn't want to protect the environment and people is like putting the fox in the hen house.

Those stories in the national news don't come close to revealing the real horrors, then there are other commentaries parading as journalists who try to dial down the realities of this even more. Where are those folks when the truth leaks out? Trying to dumb it down. How can they live with themselves? angry

We have issues here as well. Maybe no right in our immediate front yard but near by.

1. Rat lung worm - Big Island Washing fruits and vegetables well is the recommended preventative care and don't leave foods out uncovered in the open air.

2. Trash landing on the beaches It's not outgoing trash, it is trash coming in on the waves. Some as far away as Japan and who knows where else.

This isn't happening to all beaches but depending on the currents, it can happen to any of our beaches. There are also large flotillas of waste causing danger to sea going vessels and marine life.

The Great Pacific Garbage Patch

It is sad to see the agencies and laws designed to protect our environment and people are being eliminated or severely reduced. It is one thing to economize but it is another thing jeopardize.

It seems like the actions being taken by those in charge are meant to hurt more than help or even cooperate. Pay close attention, it has all the markings of a huge scam in the making. Worse than being sold a lemon car and calling it 'your dream machine'.

jmo,
Orchid



Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/28/17 03:24 PM

Originally Posted By: NewEveryDay
WuD I don't know what to tell you about XH. It has taken me so many years. I've had so many slips before I remarried. Thankfully I'm so hopped up on my new guy I don't think about the old one like I used to. I wanted to get to that point on my own and suspect I would have. Just observe the thoughts and say goodbye and refocus on the present. But it may always feel like a limb missing I don't know. I'm happy for you at least you're not breaking NC. That's the best thing.


Hey I am hopped up on my new guy too---well almost 7 years in--but xh still intrudes on my thoughts far to often. It is one of the reasons I pushed for the divorce to be over so fast and why I was open to remarrying fairly quickly. I knew well the pattern of xh and my relationship and I KNEW he would try to get me back if there was any way. I had to be done with him. I just could not go the rest of my life being married to such a toxic person

So WUD I am not a bit surprised that you still think of him daily.

Have you heard the song 'Better Man'?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/28/17 06:37 PM

Well, I am looking into recovery steps re: detaching from a covert narc. Most adjusted people, even divorcing ones, have some sort of empathy for a person you have had interactions with.

It is not the norm to be cheated on, stole from, lied about, blamed and abandoned without any apparent empathy, in fact, a former spouse who seems invested in punishing former family.

When healthy people divorce, you at least have those important ending conversations, there is empathy for the kids and co caring, at least on paper, for them. Few care to toss willy nilly, a life savings down the tubes for revenge. Few are willing to trade a used car and community college tuition for a biological daughters respect and love.
That adds trauma onto a painful situation. It's not normal.

I was looking for answers. Answers I now know I'll never get -
As easy it is to armchair coach and say "get over it, move on, the reality is -- blah, blah, blah" it is a very different thing to do that.

SO, I am finding the recovery from a covert narc sites is much more helpful for me.
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/28/17 08:45 PM

Is there something special you can do for yourself, something you've always wanted but never felt you should? Might be a good time to treat yourself.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/30/17 05:49 PM

Continued from the NARC thread....

The thing to remember is that this is really about you, let me assume if you are reading this you are the empathetic.

I have always been in tune to other people. In fact, I'm the idiot who can't watch any. living. thing. that. feels. pain. IN pain. When someone gets hit I can feel "ghost pain"- but usually on the other side of my body...

To the point I delete FB accounts of offenders. smile Even as a young teenager I had dreams that I was running from an abandoned haunted house, then turned around and ran back inside because I could hear a kid crying. Thank you, Freddy, Jason and Michael Meyers. Jerks.

So, I would say that my natural emotional state DOES affect the way I live, in negative and positive ways. Sometimes I drive myself crazy.

I have to accept this, Synesthesia and all, as part and parcel of where my natural abilities are. I rarely give up on people, or causes until the bitter end. That is probably why I hung onto an abusive relationship, never failing to trust that my xh would ultimately come through for me in the end and we would wind up happy..
^^^ see where MY problem lies?
I can't get genuinely angry, long term, with people who take advantage of me. I will bend like a reed to accommodate people, and it is NOT in my best interest.

It is very good to be aware of this looking at other new relationships. If I do not become more aware, I am likely to wind up in a very similar situation.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/30/17 07:18 PM

Does co-dependency fit into this dynamic also?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/30/17 09:49 PM

Only when normal boundaries are crossed. Everyone has a different tolerance or idea about what "normal" is. I'm not a big fan of co dependent theory, everyone is dependent on others in a relationship, where the line in the sand is, where the boundary gets crossed - is the question.

All boils down to control.

When one benefits at the expense of the other without reciprocation is when the wheels come off, in my opinion.

Even though we had no substance abuse in our relationship, I'm sure during the pick me dance phase, we were plenty co dependent....
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 04/30/17 11:01 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Only when normal boundaries are crossed. Everyone has a different tolerance or idea about what "normal" is. I'm not a big fan of co dependent theory, everyone is dependent on others in a relationship, where the line in the sand is, where the boundary gets crossed - is the question.

All boils down to control.

When one benefits at the expense of the other without reciprocation is when the wheels come off, in my opinion........


I agree. We all have issues and tendencies but when they cross the line and infringe or cause harm to others, that is when we individually need to own up (aka: onus) and fix what is on our side to fix. We can then offer to help others but be aware and responsible to do our part. Blame shifting isn't a fix.

To focus the blame to all that contributed to the problem/issue, etc is one thing and an important one but it doesn't stop there. The next step is to identify and work on an amicable solution.

Fair and balanced is often easy to say and yet in the long run often very, very hard to do.

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/01/17 11:12 AM

Yes Orchid I agree the difference between being a loving partner in a marriage and a codependent is that "giving until it hurts". And a spouse thinking they are entitled to that. What seemed foggy to determine in the midst of it becomes clear after getting some distance.
Posted By: EarningIt

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/03/17 04:43 PM

WuD I presume you found Artifacts in Corktown. If not I''d encourage you to visit. A little pricey, but cool.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/03/17 05:41 PM

We have quite a few of those types in my town, too. Lots of character, they charge a bit too much, and usually go out of business too soon. They are funky....

I am more of an Arch Salvage yard gal. Although the prices at the salvage yard is getting pretty high, too.
I paid $86 for 6 panel pocket doors that I have cut to be the back of an entryway hall tree. For what I put in materials, I could have bought one of inter-webz.... Now that I gave away the extra furniture out there, I have room to assemble THAT thing...
Woo- hoo! I get to use my Bosh drills....

The one I like the best gets most (if not all) of that stuff donated free of charge, and the workers are in recovery programs.




Posted By: EarningIt

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/03/17 07:57 PM

Yes, this place has a nice smattering of Detroit salvage items that's what made me think of you.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/06/17 02:40 AM

OMG. I actually talked someone off the cliff. Thanks to you for all the advice I passed on to this woman. The poor thing. I am so glad I am not back where she is. What a horror show.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/06/17 06:10 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
OMG. I actually talked someone off the cliff. Thanks to you for all the advice I passed on to this woman. The poor thing. I am so glad I am not back where she is. What a horror show.


Good job!!! thumbsup

It might be hard for her to see right now how valuable your support was today but in time, she may.

Point is that you had the info and skills to be there to help her. Very proud of you. smile

Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/06/17 10:50 PM

It was terrible. My stomach dropped.

BD for her (by accident) was last xmas eve. 23 year younger mistress, he hired her into his company - she was an unqualified bar waitress. He's a complete monstering "light switch" cheater.
-- She never saw it coming, she wouldn't believe it - even with proof her kids supplied - bless her kids for researching the truth and breaking it to her as gently as they could - only after confronting.

Holy hell. WS is already threatening her. It's going to be one of those over the top, high drama, nasty ones - (OW FB posts are delusional, thinks she's going to be rich.) - BS does not know it yet, I don't think.

She says she can't stop drinking and alluded to pills too. The emotional pain is killing her. She is so destroyed and she has not even started process by filing yet.

I believe the worst is still to come for her - but I did not tell her that.
She blames herself, wonders why she was not good enough...
I hope she stops by here. She needs a lot of help. I hope her adult kids can help her.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/07/17 01:44 AM

Glad you could be there to help. She needs a solid support group and she needs to stop drinking and taking pills. That is a band-aid that is making it worse and will prolong the pain.

Can you help her reach out to her pastor and her adult kids? Can you explain to them how you know it will get worse? Can you help her get in to see a free counselor at women's shelter?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/07/17 03:57 AM

I gave her my business card, I hope she emails or calls. I also old her about online support being rated highly effective in recovery available 24/7 (She can't sleep.) -- that she should look into that and MA.

She lives about 40 minutes away, we went to the same meet up, by chance. She looked like a very professional lady, well put together, or formerly well put together.

Her describing her pain was brutal to watch. Last year I would have not been able to see this and handle it - it was still very hard to view.

I don't know why people are so against looking into AD's, but then not seeing a problem with drinking alcohol as a coping method. I hope I encouraged her to go to her medical doctor immediately and ask for some help.

poor thing.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/07/17 07:57 AM

You did a lot and it also shows how much you have grown as well.

Very proud of you and I hope she takes heed to your support.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/07/17 12:44 PM

Here goes.
I stumbled onto many online resources for help "moving on" from a covert narc/Empathic relationship. Not diagnosing xh or me, (but I am an overloaded Empath) because it does not matter if they have a diagnosis, or what level on the scale it is, or if it is temporary or "fog" related - the base is:
If these described traits ARE how someone is treating you, then these are the things you need to do to help yourself. It's observable actions and reactions. Doesn't matter how, why or if they "are one", this is what's happened, this is how to combat it.

Secondly, it's not about painting one as bad, one as good, as many "newbie" places allude to, its really about understanding what happened and your reactions to those actions. Plus your attitude moving forward.
What you can do to help yourself move.

There are so many hours of advice, I play the clip and listen as I scan the news, a few things are really apparent. I notice, and many admit that they all say the same thing, albeit, some better than others.

They say that is because empaths and cv's have extremely definable traits and motivations and extremely predictable reactions. I also got quite a bit of information about cycling back behaviors, I think here called "invitation to pick me dance."

It's almost embarrassing to look at my traits.
My career, my hobbies, my free time and what I do that motivates me to be a happy person are all solidly implanted in that personality type. I worry constantly about if others around me are happy.

This is not especially a good thing. Perspective and balance is needed. That is where I have started to listen to the recovery vids, only ones posted by licensed therapists, now - getting smarter.

Listening makes me eerily uncomfortable. Like I know there is a strong truth that relates to me. A counselor once told me. "If it makes you uneasy, you know you are getting closer to a hidden or not so hidden truth." So you should WELCOME that uneasy feeling, not shy away from it. All in doses, all in time.

Very true in this instance.

Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/07/17 01:00 PM

Where can I find similar online resources? I'm quite interested in learning and applying solutions.

I never want to be in a relationship with a CN again. And I want to teach my kids to avoid CN's as well. It has been a nightmare trying to get away from my abuser and help my kids to learn how to protect themselves from their abuser father.
Posted By: Sonnambula

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/07/17 01:06 PM

WuD? - this is all very interesting. I find your posts very insightful and inspiring. My husband has some strong traits suggestive of covert narcissism. Whereas I am all empathetic and people pleasing... Would you mind posting some of the online resources that you found useful? (assuming that MA rules allow - not sure...)

Thanks!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/07/17 09:20 PM

Do you want...
Identifying?
the dance between covert/empathetic?
Empathetic recovery?

Give me a hot min. There are a few key people. Stay away from anyone who says they will teach you how to "get even" with a narc.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/07/17 09:23 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WVLZXLyO-M

Richard Grannon is widely cited as a great, positive influence about this topic. His vids are long - but you feel like you had "a session" when you're done.
His clients are mostly "empaths". He is funny, and he distinguishes what is opinions vs scientific definitions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLrHZvHFg3k
Why empathetics feel guilt.

P.S. Hey-suse Christe! I just watched it again and was shocked at the similarities.
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/07/17 11:59 PM

wud, thanks for that link. I'd never seen him before, very helpful.
Posted By: Sonnambula

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/08/17 05:36 AM

Many thanks!!
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/08/17 01:31 PM

Thank WuD. I needed this. And I need to share it with my Mom.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/08/17 03:54 PM

Remember that as a clinician in his practice, R.G. counsels mostly empaths, so his conversational bias seems to be geared toward what he calls the target or the person in a relationship with a C.N.

{Therapists are getting away from the usage of the term victim, because it is overused and sets up a different dynamic.}

I wish he made more neutral to both side videos. He knows so much, and he is OBVIOUSLY empathetic himself, he could probably offer help to someone on the CN spectrum (like many WS) or going through a phase of CN traits. I know someone in the "off the deep end" of the narc spectrum would never admit that there was a problem, in fact many don't realize there is a problem.

C.N.'s are different that they have zero self image, they are very self loathing and they know it - the exterior persona is all frosting.

I think that (in terms of this community) could be equated somehow to active affair WS entitled thinking. No matter what is coming out of their mouths toward a BS, they (the WS) know on some level they are spewing horse $#I+, even if they have convinced themselves otherwise during the limerence of the affair. Only after time and fog has passed do some of them realize and admit that.

This was a issue I wrested with and I think many freshly betrayed people wrestle with too. Does the active WS actually believe the ^&$^*#&^$&*$^# coming out of their mouths?

Studying this makes a bit more sense.

Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/08/17 06:53 PM

Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/09/17 04:15 PM

The benefits of not running from pain. {Same guy = Spartan life coach.}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQ5e2iPkMw
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/09/17 05:05 PM

WuD, I lose a lot of posts trying to post from my phone and I lost another recently that I wish had been posted. In it I talked about how if I could make you do just one thing, it would be to make you stop judging and kicking yourself for not being more recovered than you are yet.

You were right when you mentioned a while ago that it takes more when it was a long term marriage. I heard an estimate that it takes about one year for every five years together. Add more time if you dealt with things that suck you in.... things like alcoholism, drug dependency, narcissistic tendencies, among others.

Imho, you're going to come through this with soooooo much more than you would have ever had if you had remained married. I know that's of little comfort now because you're currently in the thick of it. You're doing the very hard work of personal recovery..... made even harder because of some of the issues and circumstances that most people don't have in their situations. That can feel lonely in itself and I'm sorry that you have to endure it for a while more.

You will get through this and reap the benefits of your work, time and effort. In the meantime, you're doing a fabulous job of documenting your journey. I'm sure it will help others who need your brand of personal recovery and my hope is that they will feel a little less lonely when they read your words.

It takes what it takes, WuD. Half-assed personal recovery takes half-assed recovery efforts, short cuts and denial. You're aiming much higher. And you'll get it because you're doing what it takes for as long as it takes. I'm both proud of you and thrilled for you.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/10/17 02:12 PM

thank you, LW. People IRL and online can make me feel like I'm dragging in my recovery. By the way, have looked more into that Spartan coach guy - he has many different areas advice. Really taken a liking to his mannerisms and perspectives.

On that note:
6 things empaths need to understand about why "light switch leavers" or "ghosts" will never give you closure/resolution..

1. They know you want it. They'd rather withhold/control over your head.
2. They would have to accept responsibility for their actions. Not going to happen.
3. They would have to admit truths, CN are notorious withholders and/or outright liars.
4. They would have to have empathy or understand your situation.
They can not process empathy, at least at that time in their life. It's what makes them so easy to identify.
5. They really have simply moved on.
6. They live in the "now".

This is tough for an empathetic. Because:
1. You have an compulsive desire for a resolution or ending.
2. You probably accept TOO MUCH responsibility, part of your nature. {You need to work on that.}
3. You tend to be reflective, and falsehoods tend to stick out and bother you.
4. Your "empathy gene" short circuits your reason.
5. You have not moved on. No matter what you try to tell yourself.
6. You live in your memories, attachments and past. Letting go of them is like letting go of a part of your life. {You need to work on that, too.}

Someone else posted: Recovery is when you can reach behind and pull the knife out of your back, then NOT use that knife against someone else - no matter what they have done to you...
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/10/17 02:35 PM

That is brilliant stuff right there, WUD.

I have a lot of trouble with THINKING I've moved on from something and then finding out I actually haven't.

In fact, what I'm actually doing at that point is internally churning the thing around. Beating myself up, reworking, rehashing, but it's all deep underground, where I don't even REALIZE I'm doing it.

Then something else happens, possibly something seemingly minor, and it tips me right into a frenzy. Caused by the OTHER thing, that I'm not entirely done with yet. The good news is that I've spotted this about myself now, and I can figure out what the "other thing" is most of the time.
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/10/17 02:47 PM

I think the Lizard stuff is good with this.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/10/17 03:08 PM

Even though I feel in my situation I had a classic emapth/CN relationship, The CN traits are very WS-ish. Garden variety WS. They are described here frequently on M.A. It's also referred to as WS babble or fog.

but-
It doesn't matter if there is a "real diagnosis" or what level on the scale a partner is, as long as you are experiencing the concerning behaviors and they are interfering with normal daily life, you should react "as if" - until there is no more of the concerning behavior..

For example, the example that is put out there a lot is; it does not matter if someone is a "real alcoholic", diagnosed alcoholic, working alcoholic or just someone in an unhealthy place and abusing alcohol to self medicate or not, if someone in your life is repeatedly showing you the attributes, you need to protect yourself as if they were...

I'm learning to focus on MY reactions to the issues.
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/10/17 03:16 PM

WuD did you ever do the divorce care emails? It was like 365 days of letting go. I'm a overly loyal one too so believe me I get it. Grief is the price we pay for loving someone. He was a good man for many years so it makes sense you still miss him sometimes. You had a lot of anger for a long time, maybe now you're getting to the feelings underneath that. Grief and sadness. You're in the right place, you will move on in your own way. There isn't a thing wrong with you.

(((Hugs)))
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/10/17 03:48 PM

WUD
I don't think you are taking too long to 'get over it'. Good grief, I am 8 years past D day and I am still mad as heck some days. I would say I am mostly over it. And dh and I both knew when we got married that neither of us were 'over' our long term marriages/divorce/destruction of our children's FOO. We chose to hold on to each other and heal together. What we did know is that we would never take either of them back, no matter what. Once you are to that point, (and I think you are) you can slowly start moving forward toward a new life.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/10/17 03:57 PM

Excellent point by SW. You may never get to a point where what WS did has no impact on your life, doesn't bother you, is completely in the past, etc.

Mrs. Hold had cancer. She has scars. She may get to the point where she has recovered enough that her actuarial life expectancy is the same as if she never had the cancer. But I doubt she will ever get to the point where she is unchanged for having had the cancer. Or that she doesn't mind having had cancer. Or that she isn't angry that cancer left her with less flexibility, less stamina, less ability to exercise, joint pain, etc. Has she moved on? Yes. has she forgotten it happened? never.

Don't feel bad if you never get to the point where you stop caring that it happened. Why should you ever stop caring about that?

As SW said, as long as you get to the point where you wouldn't take WS back in his WS state, then you have recovered.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/10/17 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Even though I feel in my situation I had a classic emapth/CN relationship, The CN traits are very WS-ish. Garden variety WS. They are described here frequently on M.A. It's also referred to as WS babble or fog.

but-
It doesn't matter if there is a "real diagnosis" or what level on the scale a partner is, as long as you are experiencing the concerning behaviors and they are interfering with normal daily life, you should react "as if" - until there is no more of the concerning behavior..

For example, the example that is put out there a lot is; it does not matter if someone is a "real alcoholic", diagnosed alcoholic, working alcoholic or just someone in an unhealthy place and abusing alcohol to self medicate or not, if someone in your life is repeatedly showing you the attributes, you need to protect yourself as if they were...

I'm learning to focus on MY reactions to the issues.


Well to help us identify so we can focus, it may be good to have some sort of naming convention. Just don't try to make it all fit in that box.

Y? Because people do have their good sides. Some show it more than others, some use it as a tool to promote their CN sides and some have less than they should.

It is good to know who and when you are being played or truly being blessed by someone.

You are right to note that we should focus on our actions and reactions. Train them to become productive and positive in our lives. It will be good for us and help us set an example for others. Y? To help, not gloat.

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/10/17 07:29 PM

On some level I feel very confident about my recovery abilities. My home, my job and my relationship with my kids is fully intact.

I'm very confident that I'm a good person, I have an extremely neutral/good self image.
It's just that I obsess on missing my old life, memories and past way too much for someone living in the here and now.

and I feel sorry for XH, on many levels. Does not mean I'd deal with him today. It has been very interesting to look into personality traits with all the reading I have been doing.

It reinforces that I am on the right path for me.

I have now beginning to learn CN retaliation methods. Once you learn what makes you tick, what made the relationship tick, how predictable your actions really are/were - you can become very proficient at dealings with them AND other "black hole" people.

I may describe them later.......
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/10/17 07:42 PM

NED: Divorce care was good, but fell flat on me. AAND the old dude who ran it kept staring at me, complaining about how lonely he was....

I do like the way they organize, but there is NO WAY someone is going to deal with an issue every week to be able to move on.

SW: I certainly hope so. Here is what I think, {as been projected on a few sites}... 5 years out, BS rate themselves as "happy" or "happier" with daily life than the year before BD - and WS rates themselves "minimally happy" or "same level" as the year before BD. I will have to see...

HOTI: Because ignorance is bliss. I just wish on some level I could go back to being ignorant of the nuclear bomb about to go off in my life, where I was confident of my spouse's love. I'll never have that trust again. there is no way.

O2: I agree with your agreement. Just like bodies, emotional states can be healthy and the can be ill- in fact, I think the health of the brain is way more complex and misunderstood than the health of the physical body.

Some emotional issues are temporarily, like a mild depression, some terminal. There are many factors that can affect the healing process....
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/10/17 08:39 PM

Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/10/17 09:35 PM

AAAwwwww. DD23 in Tanzania, medical relief trip.

She just sent a picture of her checking a toddler's eyes, while the child is trying to wrestle the instrument out of her hands, and her 7 or 8 year old brother stares in obvious confusion at her about what was going on.
Great opportunity for her.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/10/17 09:49 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
AAAwwwww. DD23 in Tanzania, medical relief trip.

She just sent a picture of her checking a toddler's eyes, while the child is trying to wrestle the instrument out of her hands, and her 7 or 8 year old brother stares in obvious confusion at her about what was going on.
Great opportunity for her.


Aw, that is sweet.

I posted a nice post to you but I see it is blank. Hmm.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/10/17 10:22 PM

WuD: I am agreeing with you. Ignorance was bliss. No reason to ever stop wishing you could go back to that state of being. Don't feel you are a failure because you wish for that. Don't feel that you are a failure because there are aspects of your current life you regret.

You can be a successful and even happy person and still have regrets and still wish certain things were different.

I would say you are a very successful person. I hope that you feel happy more and more of the time. Hey, these days even I feel happy some of the time. You can too. Even if you have regrets. I have plenty. One does not preclude the other.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/11/17 03:33 AM

HOTI; Just yesterday I had an extra pizza, leaving school, going home. I thought "I'll run this over to {Sister's} house for her". Figured 5 min out of my way.
>derp.

Somehow I time warped and I was thinking about my old house, instinctively. I don't live there no more. - three years after bomb drop still going "home". I never go to that town because of it.

It's not smart.. or rational..
Posted By: believer

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/11/17 04:37 AM

I think it takes much longer than people say to get over the loss of a marriage, or any loss for that matter.

It's been almost 10 years for me, and this is the first year where I've thought about the happy memories. I even chatted with an acquaintance about what a good man my husband was.

What helped me most was getting a life of my own and learning to be comfortable alone. Even that seemed to take forever.

Be kind to yourself and allow time to heal. It's normal to turn everything over and over in your mind, trying to understand what happened and why.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/11/17 11:27 AM

Hey, believer. How are things?

Yes, I agree. We would all like to claim we have climbed out of that hole quicker than we actually did or can. I certainly admire people who actually can do that. (In fact, that's a big part of revenging a CN.)
Maybe out of fear of looking weak?

I also do not like being alone. Living as the "hub" person in a family, including extended family - well nothing - is hard.

Understanding now that I am way to the left on the empathetic scale, and the personality traits associated with, it makes a lot more sense to me where I am stuck.

I have had this dream or a version of it before. XH on the phone this time, hovering and asking me "What can I do to make it right and come home?" (No, I was not drinking Absinthe)

For the life of me, I remember that in the dream I had no idea, nothing I could offer him - to help him return. I remember quickly thinking "I don't think there is a way..." then I woke up.



Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/11/17 12:04 PM

My STBX would never ask to come home. Too much pride and shame. In my version of that dream, that's when I realise he's using the words to candy-coat another attempt to stab me in the back. And then I wake up, because really it is a nightmare and you/we/I don't want him back any more anyway.

You want what you thought he was, what you thought you had. (I wanted that too, but I dont want the rotting person that my STBX chose to become.) Your XH won't be able to become that better person any more. He can not and will not do that amount of work to change. You are also mourning the amount of work you put into your relationship, and it is okay to mourn the loss. Take the time you need, no matter if it is years or months. You deserve to heal and find peace.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/11/17 12:54 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Hey, believer. How are things?

Yes, I agree. We would all like to claim we have climbed out of that hole quicker than we actually did or can. I certainly admire people who actually can do that. (In fact, that's a big part of revenging a CN.)
Maybe out of fear of looking weak?

I also do not like being alone. Living as the "hub" person in a family, including extended family - well nothing - is hard.

Understanding now that I am way to the left on the empathetic scale, and the personality traits associated with, it makes a lot more sense to me where I am stuck.

I have had this dream or a version of it before. XH on the phone this time, hovering and asking me "What can I do to make it right and come home?" (No, I was not drinking Absinthe)

For the life of me, I remember that in the dream I had no idea, nothing I could offer him - to help him return. I remember quickly thinking "I don't think there is a way..." then I woke up.





This is great progress WUD. Dreams are so powerful in helping to process things.

Knowing you would never take him back doesn't really keep you from wishing he had stepped up and been 'a better man'.

And the house thing? Yeah, I drove through my old town the other day. A mile from my old house. A beautiful home I had planned to die in. My xh still lives there. It is still hard for me to see pics of it, or drive near it. I haven stepped foot in it in since the day I moved out almost exactly 7 years ago.

I really believe that when we get our house pretty I will feel less anger about my old house. I know that seems shallow but I loved that house. It would be paid for by now. But hey, then I remember that ds and I were alone there and my now xh was having sex with other women, including my cousin. So we are better off WUD, right now bcause aren't living with a cheater.

Oh the post that disappeared as basically telling you don't be so quick to think you can never trust again. I had a serial cheater and yet I trust Dh completely.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/11/17 04:07 PM

Blair:
I do not think my xh actually would ever admit regrets. In 10 years of fighting with DD23, ne never once admitted starting or causing the fights. Not once that I can remember. It was always her fault, he was a hapless victim...
This is the "bad" kid who is now in Africa on her 4th medical mission. A true miscreant to be sure.

NC's and I imagine many WS tend to cycle back, I know many women who's xh contacts them religiously between girlfriends, when narc supply is low, and they are looking for kibble.

SW: I know about the house, although I was delighted to sell it during the terrible divorce. I think that is major factor in my renovation ideas on the new house.
(Which was my gut instinct, but by the way happens to be one of the ways to recover from CN.)
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/11/17 06:35 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
SW: I know about the house, although I was delighted to sell it during the terrible divorce. I think that is major factor in my renovation ideas on the new house.
(Which was my gut instinct, but by the way happens to be one of the ways to recover from CN.)

I find this very interesting because fixing up my house was one of the things on my personal recovery to do list. And when I had made significant progress with (as I called it) getting out the Exh dirt, everything else started being positively affected from the momentum.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/11/17 07:04 PM

I spent or paid for over 600 man hours first cleaning and staging then moving form the house/barn property. ZERO help from xh.

Talk about purging! It became a chore of senseless, endless moving/tossing/relocating decades of things. We were both pack rats -- he to the more than I.

But I think it was pretty standard. Him letting me clean up messes, so he could sit back and complain about it.
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/11/17 08:51 PM

I probably would have had a nervous breakdown if I had to do all that in the little time you had. Another reason why it might take you a little longer to go through the grieving process over stuff.

There is much to grieve on many levels. If there wasn't, you wouldn't have stayed in the marriage for as long as you did.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/11/17 11:23 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
........But I think it was pretty standard. Him letting me clean up messes, so he could sit back and complain about it.


Sounds familiar. BTDT too! Sigh......letting go & purging is a start.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/20/17 08:17 PM

What a day. Walked the cemetery for 3 hours with students placing flags on Veterans headstones - what a job!
Got home quick enough to activate AC unit, mow/weed whack lawn and prune tulip dead heads.

No sooner put away tools... boom! rain. Taking a quick break before cleaning up.
I have decided that (no big surprise), house being in order really makes me feel better. Two plus years of drama leads to this.
Compared to my former house, this is a breeze.
Khale/green apple/cuke/celery/ginger "green monster" smoothie, ready to take on the recliner! Then go see what stupid stunt our President did today...
CAN we replace "Hail to the Chief" with the Benny Hill Show theme song? Would't it be more appropriate? Kazoo and all...

Hope everyone has a good day.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/20/17 11:06 PM

That theme song would be more appropriate! Thank you for the giggles! smile
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/20/17 11:17 PM

You have to prune tulips? I've never gotten one to grow down here, wouldn't know.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/20/17 11:54 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
.....Khale/green apple/cuke/celery/ginger "green monster" smoothie, ready to take on the recliner! ........


You certainly deserve that and more. I get tired just reading all you've accomplished in a morning. smile

Every morning I make juice smoothies for my son & I. It's my breakfast and he has his later in the day.

Costco sometimes has the kale/pomegranate/raspberries/blueberries individual packets that come in handy. I throw in 2 apple bananas, some coconut sugar (use the syrup version) and beet powder or crystals. When I have more time, I use fresh kale (just the leaves no stalk, apple, 2 apple bananas, frozen blueberries some coconut sugar (use the syrup version) and beet powder or crystals. Holds me over until the afternoon on most days.

Later in the day if I'm home I treat both of us to some ice coffee using the coconut choco powder from Costco heated with some Toscano choco syrup and ice coffee with 1/2 & 1/2. That satisfies my choco craving for a while. wink

Well those are my vices for the day. smile

Enjoy your weekend, you deserve it. thumbsup

Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/21/17 12:07 PM

Originally Posted By: catperson
You have to prune tulips? I've never gotten one to grow down here, wouldn't know.


You "dead head" the spent flowers stalks only. You leave the green leaves for about 6 weeks, until they yellow, then trim them, too. Do not pull, you will dislodge bulbs.

Some tulips are annuals, most are perennials - only the large varieties need to be dug/brown bagged and replanted every few years... How do I know this random cr@*???
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/21/17 12:10 PM

O2:
Are the Costco dry mixes? or liquid?
#whatsasapplebananna ???
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/21/17 06:53 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
O2:
Are the Costco dry mixes? or liquid?
#whatsasapplebananna ???


Frozen food section. Look for a white bag with green borders. Brand is: Rader Farms.

Correction: No pomegranate, just blueberry, strawberry, kale, raspberry & spinach.

The pomegranate mix is another one I periodically use and in the frozen section as well but not individually bagged. I don't like it as much because of the seeds.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/24/17 07:03 PM

Love being an Art teacher. Found old wooden boxes I bought for "vertical gardens". Decided to use them or loose them, so I bought $35 worth of succulents and proper soil.

Took everything to school. We talked about "living art" (yes, that's a thing) and vertical growing. It turned out to be an excellent lesson I gave all day about creative/learning/problem solving. Plus I got my succulents planted! hehehehehehehehehe.

One senior said "YOU PAID how much for those? I work at g+++, I'll bring you 2 flats tomorrow." She only would take $5 - she says they will probably give them to her, I'd pay any difference - but GEEZE! what good luck. I have 3 more boxes at home...

Another green-thumber in fifth hour is bringing me mosses she has -- apparently she has them laying around...
what a weird world we live in.

Taking the "big 21 BBQ" seriously now. Yard work done till quick mow on Saturday - weed and feed/driveway Roundup, whacked, mowed, raked and flowers potted.

I have left over marble slabs from kitchen, and post supports- so I used landscapers block glue to put post newel on bottom of marble - glued two shelf bracket hangers that I used for side supports to each side of newel -

I know I should have put plywood on top of newel first for support - but if this works, it will be genius/ look cool -

Tonight going to carriage bolt post base onto deck - for marble counter height tables for the grill/serving area. Nice the deck is older and oooookie, I don't mind drilling post stem into it...

Will it work? We will see.... Marble = free. 1 Post base $30 - the other left over = free. Carriage bolts = free. Glue $5. Triangle supports = free. Seeing if this will actually work? Priceless.....
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/24/17 10:00 PM

I am SO jealous. I don't have an artistic bone in my body. I have to copy other people's stuff.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/24/17 10:53 PM

Originally Posted By: catperson
I am SO jealous. I don't have an artistic bone in my body. I have to copy other people's stuff.


Ditto!!!

That's me 2!!!!

I do appreciate and often have ideas to improve but the actual make it happen, happen? Stunted, that way. Who do I blame for that? My mom? She used to say....

When God passed out brains,
I thought he said trains,
and I said, 'I'll pass'.......

I think she took it from this old saying:

When God passed out brains,
I thought he said trains,

And I missed mine.

When God passed out looks,

I thought he said books

And didn't want any.

When God passed out ears,

I thought he said beers

And asked for two long ones.

When God passed out legs,

I thought he said kegs

And asked for two fat ones.

When God passed out noses,

I thought he said roses

And asked for a big red one.

When God passed out heads,

I thought He said beds

And asked for a big soft one.

When God passed out hips,

I thought he said lips

And asked for two large round ones.

God am I a mess.

smile
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/24/17 11:26 PM

Funny Orchid.

I have no artistic talent either.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/24/17 11:46 PM

Same here. Absolutely none whatsoever
Posted By: Chrysalis

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/25/17 12:21 AM

I don't want to butt in on WuD's thread but I have to. Artistic talent is not necessarily hardwired. Anyone can learn to be more creative. It is the flip of a switch in the brain.

For me it happened the first time I did a classic drawing class exercise-- blind contour drawing. Whoa! That made me think differently about what I was seeing! And after a few more classes and a few more exercises it became easier and easier to flip that switch in the brain, and in fact I found I NEEDED to flip that switch frequently in support of my mental health.

Creativity comes from seeing things in a new way. It can be learned.

So I just don't believe you are forever hopeless at artistic endeavors.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/25/17 01:20 AM

Talk about pre-conceived ideas....aka: stereo-typing. I get the 'side-eye' often from older Japanese women who 'assume' that my looks means artsy talent resides here. Sigh......what they fail to recognize is that some of us have talents in other areas that don't fit the cultural norm. Me......I'm one. Can't draw or make anything to save my soul.....stick figure drawings make fun of me.

My creativity must reside someplace else. Maybe it moved and didn't leave a forwarding address. Sigh.....my life. Now give me a payroll tax question and I'm your gal. LOL!!!!

I've disappointed my relatives in that regard. frown
Posted By: MaidUpName

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/25/17 07:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Orchid2


My creativity must reside someplace else. Maybe it moved and didn't leave a forwarding address. Sigh.....my life. Now give me a payroll tax question and I'm your gal. LOL!!!!


So you excel at creative accounting.....

laugh1 laugh1 blush
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/25/17 08:27 AM

Originally Posted By: MaidUpName
So you excel at creative accounting.....

laugh1 laugh1 blush


That sounds devious. LOL!!! I'm not of that kind but I do know how to explain it in a plain enough manner that most employers and small business owners understand so they can make a good decision.

I tell my clients that I will never do or ask them to do anything illegal. I also share them what is within their scope of work and often it is more than they realized.

What I see is how fears hold folks back at so many levels in life.

We see how fear may hold back a BS. Fear may hold back a person to start their own business or become an employer. Fear to let our children grow and go, so many fears.

We need to differentiate between valid and invalid fears.

What I like about WUD is she has faced her fears head-on and conquered so many of them. Giving a good example for many of us. smile

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/25/17 03:08 PM

O2:
Rather head on then dragged a$$ backwards through the gauntlet.
'cause either way, when xh started his affair - I was a'goin' either way.

I am getting very contented with the way things are settling in in my life. The house is really darling, I'm starting to transition into a new phase of better eating and exercise, hopefully more painting...

Doing a HUGE amount of learning about empathetics; what makes them tick, how they process feelings and emotions {we take crisis, even other people's crisis way harder than others. Heck, If I see someone get punched on tv - my cheek hurts!)

Empths crave a closure in relationships that they will never get with CN or control freak.
That is due to the fact we naturally put ourselves in others shoes to understand their motivations, hence the basis for our empathy personality. To not HAVE that understanding, or even a chance to vent - drives. us. nuts.
Empths can be lovely people, but when that empathy gets in the way of living a happy life, it needs to be examined.

WHO KNEW the perfect way to get "revenge" on a CN is to center your emotional self and be successful in the things you choose to do? Even if you have to fake it till you make it - even if you do not know IF that dirty ole CN is observing you. Appearances matter. highfive

Form follows function = Positive outlook, eventually positive inward.






Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/25/17 07:03 PM

WUD,

Good update and great explanation post. Makes sense that we need to find balance and hold onto it.

Keep up the good work, it helps not just you but many of us as well. smile

Hugz,
Orchid
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/26/17 12:07 AM

Sounds like a great idea. Hope it works out exactly how you want (or better)!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/26/17 01:46 AM

Fell back on the housework today - went out to dinner with a few new ladies I met at meet up.
Brand new lady comes in, friend of another woman, she says "HI! I'm *&*^#@. I can't stay long because my friend is getting out of jail today." - dead serious.

-- Speechless. I mean, OMG, what an opening line.

.................I'mma goin' to have to steal it.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/26/17 12:52 PM

It's just so sad and sick. I was sitting at the bar, waiting for my friends, and watched all these bar hoppers, all pretending to be something they are not.

All chasing this "find someone better" notion. They always think something better is out there, that they are missing out.

That is reinforced in life - is what you see on tv, social media.
Out with the old, because new is better. We all want better, right?
No one is ever told to appreciate the things you have.

My daughter is now 21. Getting everything ready for the "big BBQ" on Sunday, yes, I am over fussing on purpose. We cancelled her high school open house due to bomb drop. Psycho XH thought I was going to bite my lip and grin for all the photos because "We need to do this for DD!*!".

I will wonder if he or OW thunk up that plan. Probably him -
he was always good at hiding behind a skirt.
It also ruined her 18th birthday. AND graduation. What an impossible thing to ask someone to do!

He is missing this rite of passage, too. frown
I feel sorry for him. BUT I FEEL MORE sorry for DD21. AND me + DD23.

SO, Emo mom here, overcompensating in the way I know how - fuss and food. big menu - Seared sirloin or chicken with crab/blue cheese topping. Seared scallops and Russian caviar (grilled garden vegetables.) Baked sweet potatoes, instead of bread...
Side of grilled avocado, stuffed with feta/tomato -

Fresh coconut cake {pain in the %$#, but tastes like a cloud.}
This is the way I used to cook, in my previous...
- for no reason, how to grill....

Getting the grill to 600 is a pain, but the sear on the beef is wonderful
-- simple 80%canola 20% olive oil brush, that's it - to crisp up the outside and seal the juices in.
Let steaks rest 10 minutes, (blood is drawn to edge, resting lets it go back to the middle - re sear for 2 min each side to serve.

Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/26/17 01:19 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
It's just so sad and sick. I was sitting at the bar, waiting for my friends, and watched all these bar hoppers, all pretending to be something they are not.

All chasing this "find someone better" notion. They always think something better is out there, that they are missing out.

That is reinforced in life - is what you see on tv, social media.
Out with the old, because new is better. We all want better, right?
No one is ever told to appreciate the things you have.

My daughter is now 21. Getting everything ready for the "big BBQ" on Sunday, yes, I am over fussing on purpose. We cancelled her high school open house due to bomb drop. Psycho XH thought I was going to bite my lip and grin for all the photos because "We need to do this for DD!*!".

I will wonder if he or OW thunk up that plan. Probably him -
he was always good at hiding behind a skirt.
It also ruined her 18th birthday. AND graduation. What an impossible thing to ask someone to do!

He is missing this rite of passage, too. frown
I feel sorry for him. BUT I FEEL MORE sorry for DD21. AND me + DD23.

SO, Emo mom here, overcompensating in the way I know how - fuss and food. big menu - Seared sirloin or chicken with crab/blue cheese topping. Seared scallops and Russian caviar (grilled garden vegetables.) Baked sweet potatoes, instead of bread...
Side of grilled avocado, stuffed with feta/tomato -

Fresh coconut cake {pain in the %$#, but tastes like a cloud.}
This is the way I used to cook, in my previous...
- for no reason, how to grill....

Getting the grill to 600 is a pain, but the sear on the beef is wonderful
-- simple 80%canola 20% olive oil brush, that's it - to crisp up the outside and seal the juices in.
Let steaks rest 10 minutes, (blood is drawn to edge, resting lets it go back to the middle - re sear for 2 min each side to serve.



Feeling sorry for your girls will harm them more than hurt them. They are fine WUD. Really. They have a wonderful mother, a wonderful life for each of them is unfolding. Sure they have a father who is currently horrible....maybe he will never rebound from that, but that is what happens in life...people disappoint us and we have to pick up and move forward.

You have done a unbelievable job of picking up the pieces IMO. And I know you are sad sometimes. Heck I am too, all these years later. But I choose to focus on the good and I hope you will continue to do that too.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/27/17 03:23 AM

Everything sounds perfect. Just remember Psycho XH chose to leave his DD's and you. You can feel sorry for XH, but he doesn't deserve any sympathy. As SW says, you have done well as a parent. Be grateful for where your daughters are at. Enjoy their great moments and keep making those positive memories with them.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/28/17 02:47 AM

I worked about 13 hours today straight. From lawn to house to prepping food. I can't believe I got it all done. House looks great, I should be able to take it relatively easy tomorrow.

Saw DD23 first time post Africa. She brought me the most beautiful masks. Made for the tourist trade, yes, but hand carved.
So cool.

They took DD21 (yeah! 21) out for her birthday. If I would have sat down in a pub - I'd be sleeping in 15 minutes. The deck area, especially looks great. I love the flowers and cafe lights.
Finally starting to see it all come together, the details area working out great.

I already see my mind finding another layer of wish list repairs. but for now they will have to stay wish list.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/28/17 03:36 AM

Wow, you sure have been working hard. Your place sounds not only gorgeous and a place full of love. That makes it a home and beautiful.

Very proud of you and your family.

As a mom you have earned your right to be proud of your accomplishments and your girls. highfive

Orchid
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/28/17 04:45 AM

You put in a lot of work hours today. Hopefully you can rest tonight. Enjoy tomorrow!
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/28/17 01:36 PM

Wow WUD . You are such a hard worker!.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/29/17 08:00 PM

UUUUUgh. DD23 and H got there early, house looked good, but apparently not good enough.
We power washed the back of the house, deck and moved the dog kennel. Moved my good furniture from font porch onto the back deck, moved grill, hammock and location of table...
It looks like a bar and grill out there....
friends arrived, food was excellent - entertainment of the day was when birthday girl broke her patio chair, and wound up sitting basically on the ground, with the chair all horribly bent all around her.

She's sitting there... says "hey, I think I broke the....." boom. >so everyone was paying attention to her. But wearing the star spangled cowboy hat in the sun brought attention too.

She was sitting normal table height, I turn around, now I can only see the top if her head over the table.... straight down.
Now to the chorus of "Carolyn get's no birthday cake!" she has to pick herself up and dislodge the broken chair leg out of the deck boards.
Go to to give her props... even sitting there she replied, kind of under the table; "I still want some birthday cake."

She really seemed to enjoy her party...

all around interesting party... I have not moved today. Net flicks and leftovers.
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/29/17 08:30 PM

Those are the days of memories, WuD, enjoy them!
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/30/17 01:28 AM

Oh. My. Goodness!

You absolutely should do Netflix and leftovers at this point! Sometimes good enough needs to be good enough. Is DD23 perhaps a bit of a perfectionist??
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 05/30/17 11:26 AM

Yes. She is a rather theatrical neat freak - she has a schedule for studying planned out a week/month ahead.

She can be rather high strung about it, I think that may just be part of her alpha type. I've just always considered it just how she is.

Almost seems like a vacation being back at work! I can actually sit down at my desk for hours if I want.... grin
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 12:53 PM

My sistah called me cheesed off. She's a retired Verizon employee, we are all on her family plan without phone contracts, she watches data usage carefully.

We just had a marvelous birthday celebration for DD21, and XH was not even mentioned, we never mention him -
I thought it was so weird- he chose to miss out on all this and it is as if he never existed, but I didn't dwell or mention it.


Yesterday, DD21 showed sistah text string from her father. She does not communicate with him, but he does send her messages. (She never mentions this type of stuff to me, I asked her not to.)
What was upsetting, according to sis, was xh is acting like the divorce was normal, and the "problem" was DD21 not accepting the divorce.

Just like the Spartanlifecoach says, these type of people don't change when they move on, they just find different people to blame.

All it took was a few carefully crafted sentences; "I know YOU feel bad about the divorce, what can I do to make YOU feel better about it?" - type stuff, he made the issue seem like the problem was with my DD21, not his prior actions.

Pompous a$$. He stranded her, told her to "get a job" at 18 if she wanted to help with groceries, refused to pay her his share for lawn mowing, took her car, gave her sister a "cease and desist" letter (?) - Spent 18 months making life a living HELL - I mean took EVERY liquid asset out of that house, told us to "hurry up" and clean it up, so we could sell it. Very Smug..

Will not help with college/expenses - claiming poor mouth while living in a half million dollar home--
but the issue is her feelings, not his actions.

I wonder HOW LONG I accepted this type of backhanded questioning?

I sure hope she does not buy into it.


Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 01:07 PM

Now that you know from a source other than her, imho it's appropriate to address those concerns with her and to help her, if asked, to craft a response that is respectful, to the point, and denial free.
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 02:54 PM

Maybe now's a good time to start talking to her about it?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 03:18 PM

LW:
I don't know. That poor kid has her life put in a garbage disposal, even though I can't imagine what having your father act that way, she STILL puts other people's feelings about herself.
Even when she was a tyke, the smallest by a few years, always regulated to the back of the line, always the last to get the tv remote-- this quote summed her up:
"And yet, through it all, Cinderella remained ever gentle and kind, for with each dawn she found new hope.. "
That kid had a certain patience and a gentleness about her from day one. I can count the times on one hand I've ever seen her flip out.
Her SISTER is not the same...

She is what she is. In fact, quite some time ago, we were mentioning her dad, and I said to her; "I can't even imagine loosing the respect of your children over used items.."
she: "You mean loosing the LOVE of your kids..."
me: "No, it is up to you, probably at a much later date, to decide THAT. Right now, I certainly know he has lost your and your sister's respect."

That gave her pause. I hope she does not feel guilty about "not loving" her dad - but she certainly can say she lost respect for him, rightfully so! - and she can work out the other stuff later.

At least I hope I gave her that idea.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 03:26 PM

Originally Posted By: catperson
Maybe now's a good time to start talking to her about it?

At 3 years out, she has only once or twice told me about how she personally feels....
I have told her the truth about the position he put me in, but she knows the abandonment of his kids. She that summer had a $800 or so out of my pocket "allergic reaction" - her father refused to help. I had zero in the bank. He. took. it. all.

I don't want to make too much out of a few statements, but I have become very sensitive to implied finger pointing now, too. The blame shifting is so disguised as "worry". XH told me once he worried about my mental health -- my head spun around. foggy
Everyone here knows how unhealthy I am.... zen

SLC make this point LOUD and clear, (to stop thinking the CN is "Prince Charming" to the OW in his new life. They take the same issues with them as they had with you. In fact, now that the devalue/discard has happened once, it will happen quicker the next round. You are better off without this person in your life, and NC is a glorious state to be in.)

I know now that my XH simply can not mentally accept blame for anything. Even with direct proof in hand, directly asked - RED handed in a counselors office, he still lied, denied and "shuck and jived" around the truth. A grown arsed man.


I'm better off NC - but that does not address how the children with CN parents should behave toward a parent who is turning guilt/blame onto them.

BUT the good news is I can identify these things straight away. I hope that means my picker is getting fixed.


Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 04:05 PM

WuD, there are so many similarities with our ex's. I have the benefit of being farther out.

Exh did similar things and worse with and to my kids. Sometimes one or another of them just needed me to validate that it was as outrageous as it seemed and probable reasons why he was being that way. It helped. A lot.

Like your daughter, mine didn't decline contact when it was offered. She didn't go looking for it or expect it either. She accepted the reality of the situation including the fact that his version of current life and history was very different than the one she saw and experienced.

I think that you could validate your daughter today along with sharing some of what you've learned during your healing process with regard to your ex's issues in a way that can help her with her own healing process.

WuD, you've been doing the hard work and it must be noticeable at this point. Noticeable enough for you to have more credibility with your daughter than in the earlier days of dealing with the mess. Consider talking to her about the texts.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 04:16 PM

I agree with LW on this.

It is much like our adult boys now and their mom. One boy won't have anything to do with her. He sees that she never once put him first, was never there for him, and basically could not be bothered with him.

When he was a child we did everything we could to facilitate a relationship between them, because it is healthier for a child to have a loving relationship with both their parents. But now? He rebukes her, we support him in that. What he wants, and how he feels are completely valid, and we validate it with him. He's not wrong in his perception, his memory is 100% accurate. We don't sugar coat shinola here, we're not Willy Wonka.

His brother? Well, he has a relationship of some kind there. We leave that be too. Whatever he wants to do there is okay with us. And none of our business.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 05:07 PM

DD23 has a better head on her shoulders, plus, due to her direct personality, she has butted heads directly with her father for 10 years now.

Her email replies to his blame shifting are epic. I mean, like pull the car over I'm laughing so hard epic.

My fear is that if I point out the blame shift, which is subtle "the problem is not what I did, but how you feel about what happened. How can I help you?" It may be perceived I'm jading her against her dad. I think I have to stay out unless asked.

He looks so sincere holds her hand while blatantly lying to her face. The big to-do hang up is over the car. My car, given to her in her senior year of high school. She crashed it during the divorce, and he insisted on locking up the insurance check as "marital funds". He was so obnoxious to the insurance agent about it, they almost cancelled our policies.

Everyone knew that car was hers, this was just a big "F.U." from dear old dad. She had no way to even get to work- the next day.

The times he has addressed it, he told her, "The judge MADE me put the check in the bank!"
- It never went in front of the judge.
XH: "The car was never really given to you!"
We let her have her choice between two cars. She picked out "her" car. It was called "DD's car" ever since.
XH: "If you were to keep that car, WuD? would have to give me, half the value, $5,000 dollars!"
Why would I have to pay him for her car? note: she did point that out to him last year... he replied "he was never going to address it again."

This is some serious mind bending.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 05:20 PM

You miss my point.

We've never "pointed out" a thing. Not ever. We support. We validate. We don't add. If he asks a straightforward question, he gets an honest answer, that is FACTS, with NO emotional coloration. "Yes, she came on x date to see you and stayed for x hours." NOT "the worthless ho showed up on her way to her boytoy's mother's house to see you for less than a day!"

If he asks in follow up to "she came on x date to see you for x hours. (and only IF he were to ask) "wasn't she on her way to OMs mother's house?" we'd tell him yes. But we're never looking to paint her in the most horrible light possible. We never have been. We knew we didn't need to. We tried our best to just be neutral. Even kind.

support, validate, don't inform, don't color, don't direct.
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 05:30 PM

Does DD know that it never went in front of the judge?

That's the kind of data that adds up.

I agree that caution is necessary so that you don't add things that could be seen as trying to manage what she does with the data. That's up to her but you can validate things for her while she's going through her own process.
Posted By: EarningIt

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 06:20 PM

Hey WUD, I'm going to distract you slightly with a happier topic and then let you get back to the hard stuff.

Ever been to the Purple Rose? (I'll presume you have) there is a sweet little play going on there call Vino Veritas.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 06:32 PM

LW: SHE pointed out how the "stories grew" with her dad.
At first, he refused to state why he wanted accident information.
Then it was stonewalling, then demanding the check be sent to his attorney.
Then: it was "The car is not yours"
Then: "The car was never yours, we had no agreements in writing."
Then: "The car is marital property - period. My attorney said so."
Then: "The judge MADE me take the check."
Finally: "If you got the check, Mom would have to pay me $5,000 out of her settlement."

So, the liar became emboldened, and whoppers started happening.
DD21 noted the increase in the story. (I imagine many WS do this)

I expected it for me. "He was miserable for 10 years. He was miserable for 20 years, he was miserable for 30 years...." take your pick, I guess.

I went from "Sweetie" to a "domestic abuser" in similar steps.

Even though in February we were on a romantic trip to Iceland, really nice trip, in March, when he started screwing OW - "We had a sexless marriage for 9 years?"
His attorney enlightened mine with these tales.

I think there is almost a liar hypnosis, of some sort. Liar tells himself something so many times he mind lulls it into truth. When people don't quite believe the story, the lies get bigger, the details increased to prove them? -

To everyone else, it sounds like perfect B.S., but with the stages of lies with this type of person, it seems perfectly believable.... even the whoppers are perfectly reasonable.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 06:39 PM

Funny. XH sister friggin compulsive liar. Spent an Easter dinner convincing us that her high school "lost" a year and a half of her transcripts. Dumb school only had her freshman credits -- they LOST all the others.... smirk

We all know she dropped out at 15. She was special ed. So there had to be exit paperwork and IEP re writing.
I'm absolutely sure, I was there and called her teachers...

She even lied to her fathers face so well he accused the principal of faking attendance records. He drove her to school, dropped her off - she walked in the front door -- then the school would call her house for absence.
Dad dropped her off, watched her walk in - principal HID, for god's sakes, and followed her to the back of the school where she left and went to her boyfriend who was waiting outside....

In laws almost went to the Superintendent over the teachers poor attendance taking, to get her in trouble... ---Oh, the stories I could tell...

She was also the one who said she would come back home from running away ONLY if her boyfriend was allowed to come over.

She thought she was so tricky...dumb as a post and spoke like one. Drove me crazy to even be in the same room. She'd rather lie, even when the lies didn't matter at all, than tell the truth from the day I met her.
Never got the truth, never got the whole story, the story changed - ever.

Used to drive my XH nuts......
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 06:48 PM

Originally Posted By: EarningIt
Hey WUD, I'm going to distract you slightly with a happier topic and then let you get back to the hard stuff.

Ever been to the Purple Rose? (I'll presume you have) there is a sweet little play going on there call Vino Veritas.


Which theatre group is putting it on? Good by Wine? Farewell Wine? VERITAS is an art term.
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
I think there is almost a liar hypnosis, of some sort. Liar tells himself something so many times he mind lulls it into truth. When people don't quite believe the story, the lies get bigger, the details increased to prove them? -

To everyone else, it sounds like perfect B.S., but with the stages of lies with this type of person, it seems perfectly believable.... even the whoppers are perfectly reasonable.

I hear ya. I can't believe the whoppers that were believed by others.

I didn't understand the need to make up such whoppers when the reality made me look bad by itself. But there must have been something in it for those who believed the whoppers.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 08:56 PM

>cough< Trumpsupporters<cough<

Early on, after BD, when he knew he was busted-- XH tried to report me to the police, he was afraid of work exposure, it was an inappropriate relationship - he wanted to hide then surprise everyone with girlfriend in a few months....

After talking to him, the officer, youngish guy spent a good hour or so following up with me - at first he was confused, then you could tell he felt sorry for me.
I had ZERO to hide.

I indicated that I had hoped at that time that he return home, the cop looked me straight in the face and told me that 1. He was not getting into domestic squabbles NOR give advice ...but.... #2. He looked me straight in the face and said, "Ma'am, I just talked to your husband for over and hour and a half. NOTHING he is saying adds up or makes any sense. Divorce this man as fast as you can and get as far away from him as possible."

I was stunned. I didn't get the WS thing at 2 weeks out.
I will always wonder what the *&$(*&$(# XH told him. Seriously. WTF?

Anyhew, he wished me well, promised to keep DD23 who was applying to med school at that time - out of anything - and he told my XH to take his complaint elsewhere.
He wouldn't accept it.

About 3 days later, DD23 still flipping out (she needn't) about being "in a police report!" I talked to same officer. He called me to assure me DD23 would be OK.
At that time he told me..."Got to remember we are dealing with your husband, here. He is the biggest bold faced liar {cop} I had ever met."
I don't know what happened between those days with xh and this guy, there was interaction over DD23 accusations.
...that was a cop saying XH was biggest liar. I bet he talks to some big liars in his time... smile

I'm sure XH thought he was "crafty" trying to set me up. It was bullying to the extreme. His stories only left people shaking their heads.
He strutted around in his fancy car acting like the Gentleman/businessman he claimed to be. He had no idea people thought he was full of sh%%.

but it helped me. All 3 lawyers at mediation, yes, even his own, commented on his lying. There was not much to do.

Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 10:02 PM

I had the opposite. The lawyers were the ones who knew he was full of it. His lawyer learned it during mediation. I was compensated in alimony. Whenever I'm reminded of how he was at the end, I remind myself that it increased alimony.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/02/17 11:46 PM

mine was fighting 401K split.
His attorney never told him it was a done deal. I got my split.

glad you got alimony. I got zero- my education. but i got 410K, buddy
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/03/17 12:45 AM

If it all gets paid, I should recoup my half of the money he took/spent on his shenanigans before we divorced. Even if I don't get it all, freedom, sanity, health, joy and contentment are worth it. So strange that once upon a time I had those things in the marriage. Then the only way to have those things was to leave the marriage.

Life sure is strange sometimes.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/03/17 06:57 AM

My STBX tried to call the police department about me too. Tried to claim I was a raging lunatic and he was somehow afraid of me. It didn't work; they saw right through his lies and felt sorry for me.

I agree that it may be time to talk to DD about the texts. It is okay if she chooses to block him. She isn't required to have a relationship with an abuser, no matter who it is.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/03/17 07:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Blair
My STBX tried to call the police department about me too. Tried to claim I was a raging lunatic and he was somehow afraid of me. It didn't work; they saw right through his lies and felt sorry for me........


Deflection, rewriting history and the threats.

My story is that when I was throwing out WS' clothes after several false recoveries and many packing up his stuff, I no longer choose to pack them nicely, first in suitcases (for his clothes), then into boxes, then into garbage bags but still folded nicely, then throwing his suits and clothes out on the front lawn.

Now you maybe counting 4 times but know that each of those types of discarding happened more than once, so you can imagine how I must have felt by the time I was throwing his clothes onto the front yard. Still I restrained myself from flinging his under garments.

So that gave the Ws the bright idea to call 911. Seriously? Ok then, while he was trying to convince the dispatcher that clothes being flung out the door was a danger to his life, I let them hear my despair......something about, don't push or hit me......again. It wasn't a lie. He was already trying to block me and using his puffed out check to push me away from the door.

Well the dispatcher heard that commotion and 6 sheriff's deputies showed up. Each of the towering over myself and the WS. Those guys carried at least 1 gun each plus the larger rifles in their trunks. WS thought he could take them all on and he tried arguing with them.

Seems they didn't take kindly to his stance and they hauled him off to give him a 'room with a view' for 3 days which included a 10 day RO.

So it seems the thing a WS would threaten to do and some of them are dumb enough to actually follow through. When fantasy world hits reality, reality usually wins.

I learned a lot that day. In between my tears, the deputy gave me info on what domestic abuse really is from the law enforcement's standpoint and he told me that it includes verbal mental and emotional abuse. That I already was a victim and needed to take active measures to protect myself and my family. Not to wait until it got physical.

I read the info, did more research and to this day, I am very glad for that info.

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/03/17 10:29 AM

Ok -- I red this on another forum - but I laughed out loud.

"Trying to predict the next few moves with a {MLCer} WS is like playing chess...with an 800 pound gorilla on meth and the prize for winning is a bunch of bananas."

......that about sums it up. I'm going to print tee shirts... have this quote printed on my desk.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/03/17 01:37 PM

Where can we buy those T-shirts?? ROFL
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/05/17 03:41 AM

Man, I just got to say. Spent 4 more hours on the book cover...
Kept putting off the hero's face...

I knocked it out. of. the. park.
He looks exactly like the novelist wants him too...

Surprised myself.... can't wait to see publisher's reaction...
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/05/17 04:44 AM

You have a gift! Congrats! smile
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/05/17 06:18 AM

Wow, that's awesome. The talent that exudes here......... Wow.

Good job WUD. very proud of you. thumbsup
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/05/17 11:20 AM

Well, let's hope I don't blow it up in the finishing details.

The indigenous man (who is a ghost mage looking over our hero's shoulder) is driving me nuts. He wouldn't look like what WE think of as a Huron Indian, who were a cast off part of the Sioux nation.

Huron's migrated up here from the south. Oneaten, was an original tribesman who came from the bearing straight east then south to this region. I can't even pronounce his tribal origin, but I am assuming they were not as handsome (smooth looking) as our current Indian people.

It is historical fiction. Real wars/battles with a Sci Fi element, for the comic con crowd. Author's target audience are young men, (who need to read more!) but I'm betting many nerds will like the story of our haphazard hero, Captain Mitch.

I mean, lots of fun. Next I'm designing the werebear who gives our hero grief, but becomes an ally about 75 years ahead.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/05/17 07:53 PM

....Just putting this out to the universe...
To the unidentified man who stood his ground and threw tables and chairs repeatedly at the terrorists as they stabbed those people ...
{They had fake bomb vests on, so I assume everyone thought they were going to die.}
-- Dude, when my time comes, like I'm sure you thought was on you, I hope I'm 1/100 th as brave.
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/05/17 08:15 PM

Well said.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/09/17 04:07 PM

Weird world. Always loved bright red appliances.

As the young people say; "My dryer took a S#**!". Yup, it did.
Old wreck from the 80's I imagine, but it was free with house.

To go to the Laundromat, runs at least $35.00 - $45.00 for a weeks worth. We must be pretty messy - so in the long run, investment in a machine is a great thing to do.

GOOD OLD Craigslist ->> even though things are going to be bigly tight --
but I found a one year old set (with a 5 year warranty) Samsung BRIGHT RED Energy efficient BOSS HOG set.
for $800. Since I'm not as young as I "usta, I hired a mover for $300. Back in my day I would have scoffed at this delivery -- today I do back flips of relief........
I'm not pulling up appliances from the basement by myself/ with a grumpy kid anymore...

Anyhew -- For $1,100 I got them delivered, old set hauled out. With service agreement. Today at Lowes The set/warrenty would be $2,058. I think that's pretty darn good. Not great, like some of my 10% deals, but on something this important, you want the top end of what you can afford.
Ramen noodles for awhile.... frown frown frown

Now I just have to learn how to connect gas. -- and there went my eave troths this year....
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/09/17 04:26 PM

The gas connection is super easy, assuming you already have the connection in the room. Do you?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/09/17 04:27 PM

P.S. The washer is great.

Do you know if there some way I can donate this to a shelter/charity?
Salvation Army/Goodwill near me does not take machines....
ooooh - habitat for humanity?
ideas?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/09/17 04:30 PM

Cat. Yes.

I couldn't believe the dryer gas and washer ele.
My favorite set. Really. I've mooned over those for awhile..
(As I rushed by them in Lowes covered in plaster/dust buying electrical wiring parts for the last summer)
DO they even make gas washers?
Exactly what I needed...

and
bright
red....
and I get a $35 credit at DTE because I have the original receipt and warranty.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/09/17 05:22 PM

My boss had that set. I loved it.
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/09/17 06:36 PM

Your local women's shelter?
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/10/17 01:53 AM

I found a repair shop that took my old set and fixed it up and then donated it to an abused woman with a family.

You might call the women's shelter and ask if they have a repair guy who will pick them up and give them a new home with a Survivor who needs the help. It could be a cancer survivor or anyone else in need.

I love red appliance too!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/10/17 02:10 AM

All 32 pounds of two year old climbed up into the chair next to me at the salon. She hardly looked old enough for sentences. Itty bitty dinky girl, about 26 months old.
She eyed me curiously, pause, side eye.
"Do you want to know my name?" She asked, frankly.
{Me, startled at her speech .. } - "Certainly."
>big gasp of air< ..."Penelope Olivia Estella McMannon. What's your name, now?"
"WhatsUpDoc"
"Ok" off to watch her I pad...
About 10 minutes later..
she: "Hey, WhatsUpDoc, what part of a chicken Mcnugget is this?" she says waving one around in the air.
"Do you like making cupcakes?"
She was so little she chirped the words. The future has hope, people.
Penelopes will take over...
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/10/17 02:21 AM

Yeah! I got the #$#@@ things in the basement!
Steam cycles in both the washer and dryer. Sanitize settings -- fabric protective coating in both drums...
It communicates with my phone by an application. Automatically adjust temp and heat dry time for every load.

They threw in splitter steam hose for the washer and dryer -- machines in absolutely pristine condition! I have to hook up the gas, I'll research that - did not seem too difficult.

Movers are scrapping the dryer (shorted out probably due to age.) but the washer was way newer and in good shape - they are taking it to Habitat in Port Huron.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/10/17 02:25 AM

Ok, now I have to ask.....'what part of a chicken Mcnugget is was it?' wink
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/10/17 03:28 AM

O2;
I'm sure Penelope Olivia will suss it out for us all. What a tiny delight she was.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/10/17 03:39 AM

Sometimes those little balls of energy give us a boost. Sounds like you did great today~!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/11/17 04:09 AM

Greatest washing machine ever. Has fabric protecting coating on drums. It sings to me, it tells me what is wrong (held my clothes hostage because 4E, = no water supply.) So I turned them on. blush
It calls my phone when laundry done... lights up like a slot machine... crazy

Both washer and dryer quiet as church mice.
Hooked up gas, 3 water, vent and leveled...

Best comment ever, from Samsung install/trouble shoot site. "Do not test for gas line leak with a lit match." Who would even think of this?
I also removed patio sliding glass door - it is an Anderson, should be quality door and slide better than this. Cleaned rollers - way better but will most likely buy new rollers... >sigh. Sick of doing all this &85&($85 by myself.

Grilled a turkey, mopped entire house, had family over, drank wine/washed clothes
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/11/17 04:23 PM

I LOVE that it calls your phone when the clothes are done! Brilliant!
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/11/17 04:53 PM

I just spent an hour cleaning out my toaster. shocked

Note: do NOT wait 10 years to clean out a toaster...
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/11/17 07:26 PM

Wow WUD, I would have been stuck on just grilling the turkey as an all day event much less housework to boot. eek

Ok, I'm getting ready for a client meeting this afternoon. No fancy food. It's around noon so I'll spread a small lunch to go with the meeting. It won't be as lavish as your family dinner but salad and pizza or something lite, whatever I can dig out of my fridge, freezer and from the store. LOL!!!!

Maybe a glass of wine later? Wait, got work to do afterwards....maybe next weekend....sigh......

Gotta run!!!!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/12/17 12:54 AM

Sounds like a plan, Orchid.

Brave little toaster? Brave CP.

Miranda. I also love the sounds it makes.. chimes like a video game. Rather makes you "like" the machine..

Yes, I pack lots of chores into a day. I'm kind of obsessed. Today, I learned how to attach my bike carrier to my car, (???????!) drove downtown to Shinola to get bike seat lowered. Some giraffe bought this bike. No bike wrenches in on weekends, but a sales guy left the floor and adjusted (note cut) the seat stem. Really nice place. Loaded back home, everyone in good shape.
No pieces of bike down I-96.

Home, made chicken rice soup for ill kid, grilled a steak, did yard stuff, house cleaning stuff-

Had to run out shopping for nuclear green paint (my palette is earth tones and the book cover has a need for green lantern type glowing.) Also, aforementioned ill kid requested vitamin water - 5,000 people in grocery....

Just about to sit down to work on cover, and start watching the show my nephew cast, "This is us". Yes, I'm a bad aunt. Oh, good Lord! Legit, the show is as good as people say.
So, no painting...

Ryan took a huge risk with the really large lady on the show. The rule is when nephew's name comes up, we cheer - we keep missing missing his credit.






Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/12/17 03:11 PM

Contract negotiations for book.

I will not sell the image outright, I'm opting for a percentage, and first right of refusal on the total series, five books.

They came in low - 5%, I understand 6% - 10% is considered normal in this. I returned 6% for first 3, and renegotiate after.

The reason for this is that I want to develop the character, I would not want someone taking MY designs (what Mitch looks like, what Oniaten looks like (I've done my research!)

Publishers often have will do this (take a cover, have in house guys repaint for a few hundred - then they own the work. Often when you see "Big Art contest! Send in your submission!" they are looking for ideas only. The "winner" is an in house dude who paints from the entries.

-- rant over.


Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/12/17 04:28 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Contract negotiations for book.

I will not sell the image outright, I'm opting for a percentage, and first right of refusal on the total series, five books.

They came in low - 5%, I understand 6% - 10% is considered normal in this. I returned 6% for first 3, and renegotiate after.

The reason for this is that I want to develop the character, I would not want someone taking MY designs (what Mitch looks like, what Oniaten looks like (I've done my research!)

Publishers often have will do this (take a cover, have in house guys repaint for a few hundred - then they own the work. Often when you see "Big Art contest! Send in your submission!" they are looking for ideas only. The "winner" is an in house dude who paints from the entries.

-- rant over.




Very cool WUD.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/12/17 11:08 PM

Keep negotiating. You're good at that too!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/13/17 06:54 AM

Not to hear my lawyer say.
All contract terms agreed to for first 3 books. Being written up now. I guess pretty standard, with a few edits re: first right of refusal. Mostly good faith since it is all on speculation/commission.

I don't understand fiction publishing in it's current form. All "print" houses have subsidiaries, and books rarely start out in print format, it starts electronically, as in kindle form in different markets. Then they predict from those early sales and feedback if the book actually goes to print (of course their other company) how much and what market.

But hold in your hand first print is becoming a dinosaur. I'm like a Tyrannosaurus, I need to upgrade my thinking.

Agent/publisher, who previously balked at out of house cover art, wants to know if I would consider other commissions. I think the author is afraid that I'll not get to this three first.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/13/17 10:55 AM

Well, this is good news that there might be other commissions. Take each opportunity as it comes and have fun!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/19/17 10:16 PM

Friend came over for a lovely evening bbqing on the deck. Her next door neighbor eventually sold me his patio set, glass table - 2 rockers, 4 chairs -- cast aluminum, ($300 umbrella??) for $100. Big upgrade. Friend helped me pick up and set it up, even.

"note to WuD...."no more spending money on the house... no more spending money on the house.. NOMore Spe..... "EEEeeEEEWWWwwwwWWWWW! Kroger's has Pink Double knock out roses for $4.99 for a gallon sized bush! "

I have no will power, People. Zero. Going out to dig 21 holes...
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/19/17 10:43 PM

Really? $4.99?
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/19/17 10:47 PM

When we moved to this house, the back yard was empty. I went to Lowes, in September, and they were literally selling everything live in the garden shop for at least 75% off. And then, this one Lowes near us was filling up those 6 ft tall roll carts, the ones with 5 or 6 shelves - they were selling the entire filled cart for $5! I landscaped my entire back yard for $15.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/20/17 01:35 AM

Holy crud! I've never finagled a deal that good!
Getting late to plant, but these seem really healthy - a little dry.

Got 11 in the ground, front yard-. It is so great to have nice dirt here, just like potting soil. Now to make up my mind about where to plant the rest.. tomorrow.

Got final book cover contract in my email -- re painted, yet again - one of the characters for the cover. Complete scratch off, re do. Three was the charm, he looks great. Very ghostly.. smile

Man I got a lot done today. Went to school, finished data, cleaned/stored room, checked out = 5hrs.... Went grocery shopping - went back, got plants. Came home planted and moved things around yard/watered everybody else. Repainted the book cover face 90% done - 90% happy.

This is how I used to be everyday. Now, I'm too old and tired.

Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/20/17 02:35 AM

WuD, you are already moving around like the Energizer Bunny! Old and tired! Not Even!!
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/20/17 01:57 PM

WuD continues to amaze. Shouldn't ne amazing to us anymore. Is just SOP for WuD.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/20/17 02:15 PM

I'm beginning to realize that WUD and I are cut from similar cloth. Only what I do isn't as physical as what she does. I don't have the physical stamina she has, but the mental and emotional stamina is the same. We're like onions and shallots. Similar but not exactly the same. (Sorry about the cooking metaphor, it was the best I could do!)

Some folks just grind. We're grinders. We don't know how to not do it. It would be great if we could stop, actually, because it's hard for us to rest, really. But grinding is what we do. You shouldn't be impressed or amazed. We're just doing what comes naturally, just like when a gun dog retrieves, or a parrot mimics or a bird of prey dives. <shrug> it's what we DO.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/20/17 07:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Miranda
........Some folks just grind. We're grinders. We don't know how to not do it. It would be great if we could stop, actually, because it's hard for us to rest, really. But grinding is what we do. You shouldn't be impressed or amazed. We're just doing what comes naturally, just like when a gun dog retrieves, or a parrot mimics or a bird of prey dives. <shrug> it's what we DO.


Yes, this is my calling, I mean called, I mean......well you know. wink I'm not talented or as energized, skilled or multi-talented as WUD or many others here but I've got a bit of moxie and work like a busy bee.

Retriever gun dog, eh? This reminds me of a young farmer boy who wanted to win the largest hog at the local country fair. He asked his grandpa how to fatten up his hog. The hog wouldn't get fat until he stuck a cork in it's okole (hawaiian for b-hind). The boy's hog won the prize at the county fair.

Now the boy had to remove that cork, his grandpa said to buy a monkey. So the young boy bought a monkey and trained it for several weeks. The hog was tied to a tree far away up a small hill. The boy would put a cork in a glass bottle weighed down with some dirt, he would put the monkey on a leash and give the command, 'go'. Eventually the monkey learned to pull the cork out of the bottle.

The day came to now put that training to good use. On command, the boy told the monkey to 'go'. The monkey ran up the small hill and pulled the cork out of the hog's okole. Kablammmmm!!!!!! Brown stuff everywhere. The boy was just covered in it, he was laughing and know that the brown stuff was still traveling.

The noise was loud. People came running from afar. They asked what happened. The boy was laughing so hard. He told them what transpired. They asked, why are you laughing so hard? He said, after the blast, 'all I could see was that little monkey trying so hard to put the cork back into that hog'. LOL!!!!! laugh1

Maybe the moral to that story is sometimes when life blasts around us, we'd like to find that monkey to put the cork back into it. Well, maybe.........

Ok, that's a joke my mom used to tell....... sigh, I think I got off track.......that was one funny story though. wink

Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/21/17 01:33 PM

Random best line ever. "I just wrote a song about how I'm going to kick all your butts." - {cue Metallic music}... - Lego Batman.
- I defy you to watch the Batman movie and NOT find some things to laugh about.

Miranda- yes. Two days home and I am starting to spin my wheels. Need to chillax.
Going to empty my (tiny) bedroom of all clothes. Separate work/summer and store the non needed. Going to donate lots of others. It's amazing how clothing reminds me of xh - so I avoid wearing it. I'm also avoiding doing this chore.

OMG- Hawaiian jokes from O2.

Over compensating to my DD21, we finally sat down and ordered her new laptop for school this fall. The "points" I have acquired from the travel site translated into e-cards from Visa that I got NO ONELINE VENDOR to take -- except Amazon. Good old transferred to Amazon credits.
At least She got the computer she wanted, Dell 2 in 1, maxed out with i7 processor, digital storage and speed.
4 Year 100% Service agreement, she has one more operating system download already for Windows,($120 savings - I bought a package for 3 machines last time.) and I'm buying the security system upon arrival, ($90). Probably $1,650 bundled together, and we are paying $340 out of pocket. She's paying $250 of that out of her tips. She also HAS to buy a protective cover or carry bag {my rule, those 2 in 1's are fragile, have too many moving parts for my liking.)

It frosts my b-hind because 3 years ago I bought her her "graduation gift" another laptop - that XH promised to pay me half for - then promptly ran off with OW, leaving me holding the bill. #crappypappy. She is giving her old computer to DD23 - it will be a welcome upgrade for her, so it's all good 360.

This opportunity was a gift, because I didn't know I had this many points collected, and since DD21 had her college funding undermined by the divorce, I feel good supplying her with the best tools I can for her to succeed.
She is now looking at engineering, instead of a BS in biology. If she is going to change, now is the time.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/21/17 02:23 PM

Still listening to that Spartanlifecoach guy.

He released a recent vc (vid chat) on moving through recovery. I can't tell if he's a quack or a good therapist, for some reason it really seems to be working with me.

Currently about processing recovery. Instead of 24/7 diagnosing and labeling yourself and others, you have to;
1. Accept as facts what happened - really give yourself time to process.
2. "Feel the feels" (turn your attention all inward). Instead of avoiding your feelings by all this "diagnosis stuff". As uncomfortable as that is, it is the quickest way, he believes into getting yourself emotionally literate enough to genuinely feel the good feels.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/21/17 02:57 PM

I totally agree with what SLC is laying down there! Nothing really started moving me forward until I stopped diagnosing myself and Daryl and just gave us both acceptance and started living with what IS.

Getting into the moment and giving myself the time and the grace to deal with what IS has been an enormous boon. Really made progress possible.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/21/17 03:30 PM

Yes, I think you HAVE to go through the reading, diagnosis, learning stuff first -- we all do, but you can not get hung up on it forever.

As SLC says "I don't want you 7 years from now still obsessing on what is wrong with "X","Y" or "Mr. Z". That's not moving on.

He's certainly right about that.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/23/17 01:21 AM

Very sad with the political news as of late. DD23 flew with two other students to Washington to meet with a Micigan Senator to argue that Optometry care is a basic health need - and especially for the 400,000+ veterans they are cutting eye care too.

and dd23 thought I WAS a radical for protesting in Jan....
now she's there as they drag handicapped protestors out of wheelchairs down the halls...

PHOOEY. on. these. horrible. people.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/23/17 03:53 AM

Oh my! The older I get, the more I need glasses. Our Vets absolutely deserve eye care. They have sometimes given everything to keep basic rights in the U.S.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/23/17 10:29 AM

I had to quit FB for awhile. Posting DD23's photo at Capital, one of the (can I be frank?) dumbest Trump supporters, who lives on disability herself and claims, flag waving to "LOVE Veterans!", commented; "Well, what did they say to your daughter?".

I wonder what she thinks they said. Maybe watching disabled people drug down steps will start a lightbulb moment for her...
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/25/17 01:09 AM

Blair: I think eye care should be part of primary care and not an additional rider -- for all. You can screen so many other medical issues with regular eye visits..
>>> ggggrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
So, in all my free time I drove to my old hometown,looking for artists, outdoor painting event this weekend... saw no one - they must be hiding in the bushes, or 'sumpin
My best friend of over 25 years is selling out and moving.. frown She wants to have one last open house here, before she packs everything and goes. I promised a deli tray.
$100 at the deli counter later grin If it was there, I bought some..if it oinked, mooed or gobbled {poor animals, why are they so delicious?}
- fresh made roasted garlic/parmesan spread for one side, honey/dijon/balsamic drizzle for the ham or turkey fans. ...Hey, I need a horseradish one, too,,,,

I also made my signature 100 year old buttermilk/chocolate cake - trippled the recipe, for two HUGE mother-of-all-cakes, cake. Black forest/dark chocolate cream and cherry fiiled contender #1, buttercream and hazelnuts filled milk chocolate for the second. Walking diabetic coma.

I can still pull a lunch for 35 together in a few hours. Old skill set still in use..
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/25/17 03:57 AM

The chocolate cake sounds mouth-wateringly delicious. (Don't knock my grammar when it comes to chocolate though!) So does the deli tray.

Come to think... Perhaps I need to go have supper. smile
Posted By: MaidUpName

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/25/17 07:19 AM

If for not other reason WUD, I'm gonna come and visit you just so you can feed me!!

I'm sure we can raise a toast to Donkeys and Jack Wagons while we're at it but I need access to your recipe archives.

MUN
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/25/17 09:00 AM

If MUN & Blair end up at WUD's place, let me know. smile

If WUD & Mun decide to open up an international bakery / art gallery, I'd like to buy in. smile
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/25/17 12:20 PM

I'm not a great baker. But I would be happy to be on the taste-testing committee!
Posted By: Marta

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/25/17 12:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Blair
I'm not a great baker. But I would be happy to be on the taste-testing committee!


Ditto! (:
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/25/17 01:46 PM

If you look on the back of the Hershey coco can, there is a recipe for chocolate cake that has not changed in over 100+ years. It is considered a historic

Warning, it is almost like a brownie! I mix by hand, make sure milk is room temp, and boiling hot water (poured in slowly as to not scald the eggs in mixture.)

Black forest: I make Wilsons butter cream (but add almond extract.) - remove 1/3 frosting before adding coco powder... put white frosting in middle. Drain canned cherry pie filling, arrange over white frosting, stack second (If you really want to isolate cherries, skim coat top cake and flip. Use dark chocolate to coat outside, more drained cherries on top. I pipe more white around edge to corral the cherries. You can reserve the pie filling syrup for drizzle at serving.
Have your heart surgeon on speed dial for the angiogram.

Hazelnut: Make same buttercream reserve 1/4 for middle frosting- then add coco powder.
fill layer: white buttercream plus 1 cup chopped hazelnuts - frost outside with lighter coco frosting (half the Hershey recommended amount- geese, guys - use your product much?)
Pipe top edge to corral hazelnuts for top.

Next - rollin' trays - boxing condiments...one more horseradish spread for pastrami or Roast beef sammies. Got the most beautiful marbled rye...

P.S. the honey/balsam/grainy mustard drizzle is wonderful. A keeper.

Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/25/17 01:54 PM


Originally Posted By: MaidUpName
If for not other reason WUD, I'm gonna come and visit you just so you can feed me!!

I'm sure we can raise a toast to Donkeys and Jack Wagons while we're at it but I need access to your recipe archives.

MUN

Anytime MuN. Not quite picturesque as your digs, but certainly beautiful state Ii have here.. Fall is best.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/25/17 08:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Blair
I'm not a great baker. But I would be happy to be on the taste-testing committee!


Double ditto.....plus I'd bring the drinks. smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/26/17 02:53 AM

Heee, heee. THAT would be some conversation table.

I catered the open house it was a huge success. The cakes were the talk of the boardwalk, and many took extra slices home to family members - with my blessing.
Really going to miss this friend being around. Best one I've had for 25+ years.... frown

Some gent I am emailing had a tragedy happen to his people.... his daughters bestie had twin toddlers, a service man left the gate to the pool open, both children drowned today. How do you even respond?

He still wants to meet for covfefe, tomorrow. I think it would be better to give it awhile. How can you chat to anyone after that???

Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/26/17 03:59 AM

Very sorry to hear about your friend's daughter's friend's children.

Maybe he needs to talk so he can know how to comfort his daughter.......he might really need a friend right now. Go.

Glad the open house went well. Since there isn't a place to buy your treats, you ought to consider selling those treats to a greater audience (like.......across the ocean....internet.....Fed ex?). smile

You did it for a much more noble reason and that makes me proud of you. highfive

Hugz,
Orchid
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/26/17 05:21 AM

I was thinking the same thing too. The gent might need a friend right now too.
Posted By: Kayla

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/26/17 11:21 AM

I've been listening to a book called "Option B: Facing Adversity, Building Resilience and Finding Joy " by Sheryl Sandberg to be really helpful in being with friends going thru tremendous trials and loss. Knowing what to say that would be remotely helpful and comforting does not come naturally to many people.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/27/17 05:14 PM

Oh, boy. Got to keep my hands off this one. DD23 contacted/was contacted by her father, he wants to have a relationship, but only an "adult" relationship.
{ie: SHE is to stop being so childish.} Apparently his is still with OW {I seriously, gloriously did not know}, and he wants her to meet her.

Although I'm quite delighted, I think AP's deserve nothing more than each other....and I know this is called normalizing the affair...
I can't tell her what to do. She told her aunt, my sister, because she does not want to upset me. We, DD23 and I, talked-- only about buying houses, and PMI and good stuff like that. She never mentioned anything else.

This same aunt my daughter spoke with just bought a new car. The salesperson saw her last car had a "friends and family" doscount - so he sent a notice to xh to approve this purchase. My XH declined.
I did not know this, DD23 and Aunt did - what an arse! She's on disability.
All he had to do was acknowledge the coupon. They were "brother and sister" for 30 years....

So, XH lied through his teeth to DD23, {company would not let me..?} DD 23 saw right through that. He wants to do as much damage as possible, even when a signature could save a disabled - former sister @ $1,000 bucks.

wtf? How do these terrible people seem to thrive?



Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/27/17 05:27 PM

P.S. One lady at the open house took a huge slice of the German Chocolate cake to a 85 year old man that she cares for during the week. He's from Germany, he declared the cake as good as the cakes he remembers.....
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/27/17 06:18 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
P.S. One lady at the open house took a huge slice of the German Chocolate cake to a 85 year old man that she cares for during the week. He's from Germany, he declared the cake as good as the cakes he remembers.....



Awwww.....so sweet. I am now craving German Chocolate cake. wink
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/27/17 06:47 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
P.S. One lady at the open house took a huge slice of the German Chocolate cake to a 85 year old man that she cares for during the week. He's from Germany, he declared the cake as good as the cakes he remembers.....


thumbsup Wow that must have been one impressive cake. U R certainly talented.

As for the WS being an arse, he sure it a double one. Seems the OW wants to legitimize the A? Hm......to much WS selfishness lying around. Looks like he wants to use his children for props. Hope they are smart enough to recognize it.

Sorry about what he did to your sister. Very sad. Still quite revealing and that should enforce your decision the D happened.

Take care,
Orchid
Posted By: catperson

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/28/17 12:06 AM

Do you feel capable of letting your daughter lean on you at this point? I'll bet she has a lot of stress dealing with this on her own, trying to protect you from it.
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/28/17 12:44 AM

I love German Chocolate cake.... What a huge compliment too!

I agree with Cat. I would approach your daughter about what you heard through X, Y, Z and you want to know if she needs someone to lean on and that you can handle whatever it is. She needs to know that you love her and that you're there for her no matter what, and that her relationship with you isn't contingent on her dad or meeting OW.

Your Ex is a $#^&$@*&3$R!! He's all about himself still. He hasn't learned anything yet. My daughter says she's cutting her dad off when she turns 18 because he is such a manipulative liar. Your daughter needs you. She has been trying to protect you.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/28/17 02:05 AM

You think I'm a rip-roaring smart a$$ have never met DD23. She can shred BS at 100 yards. I'm just sad that she even has to deal with this. It appears that xh is trying to gas light DD into thinking the problem is not the affair/divorce but that she is not ADULT enough to handle it.

He only will allow a "relationship" with her if she agrees to have an "adult one" - i.e.: accept his girlfriend. Anyone with half a brain would know that that is not going to happen, my children and I were all thrown under the bus by the actions of these two.
My gals were adult enough to figure out exactly what was going on, they will refuse to have anything to do with it.
I am so glad that they were not little and had to visit and put up with "ow/pretend step mommy" ick. That would have been hard for all.

Now, him acting incredulous that she won't "adult up" and accept his "relationship" on his terms is pretty ballsy.
That's pretty par for the course that I have experienced with him the last few years.

I should keep to a strict no contact. Even this tidbit of news sent me into a funk. Why should these terrible people get rewarded for their horrible behavior?

I mean, his actions were directly targeted to cause as much misery as he could. I got out by the hairs of my chin-e-chin-chin... I laid awake days (I'm not kidding, my longest was four days of no sleep-- trying to figure out how I was going to pay for things and cover bills.. >shudder..
I hope no one ever has to live though that - I wish it on no one...

What a nightmare it was.... at least I do not have that over my head now... and I am very comfortable in my surroundings....
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/28/17 02:44 PM

Well, I found a teamster friend who would be willing to sign the "friends and family" paperwork. My sister bought the car 10 days ago - she just let the rebate idea "go" after XH refused (via through the dealership) to sign for her. Friendly but pushy salesman.... but she buys cars like a toddler does. impulse, impulse impulse...

I wonder if the teamster f+f is the same rate as engineering? I don't know if they will retroactively re do the financing, but this is one year of car payments less than she would have to pay. So, very worth looking into. She's a friggin brittle diabetic on disability and spends months in the hospital at times, she is so weak, an infection could take her out..
who would not have empathy or at least pity for her?

I know.... the low level, bottom feeding dirt bag who USED to be her "brother" for 30 years, who refused to sign the paperwork.

I hope the dealership is willing to consider re writing the paperwork. They don't want a WUD? walking in there.... they will be calling her back today...

As my wiring gets short circuited...grrrr.. short circuit... grrr. grrr. I'll fix this if I can.... >bweeeep....*****.. \ (*o*) / !!!!!!

Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/28/17 04:23 PM

WuD, I recommend remaining in NC until you are ready to deal with what comes with contact. I've noticed that whenever one of your girls has an issue with him, you closely observe how well they are managing. I believe thatnof the time came that they needed your help, you would know and would be able to come out of NC and do fine with support for yourself from others who know from experience.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/28/17 04:53 PM

Thank you, LW. In the end - it turned out well.
The sales team is allowing her the discount. They felt very sympathetic with her.
Good hearted people-- No WuD? involvement necessary...

I'm really, really good with NC - maybe I need to absolutely refuse to hear any issues they have with xh. It just proved to me, anyway, that xh world lives kind of in a miserable world - and lies flow over his teeth like air, still.

As far as DD's, they both have great heads on, but they both resent the situation. Of course they would like help with school, books, etc. as well as a fathers attention. They are going to have to accept everything will have to be on his terms. -- I don't know if they are willing to be the "adult" about it.

Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/28/17 06:27 PM

You'll know if you need absolute No Indirect Contact. I did for a while. Then I was able to use Indirect Contact as a way to continue working on my personal recovery issues as well as assess whether I was ready for any direct contact.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/28/17 11:18 PM

Here's where I'm at in recovery. Most of this is listening to lifecoach guy.

At 3 years post BD, and 1.5 years post divorce, I'm ready to stop simply shoving the situation out of my head {when I can}. I have read, diagnosed flipped it upside down, drawn behavior/reaction maps, tore things down, built things up -- and done everything I can as far as research and support, to move on.

I have now come to the point that I can just take a look at the negative "feels" still lingering and accept them for what they are - stinky, bad feelings, so I can move through them to move past them.
I need to be more emotionally literate to MY feelings about things. I have read, diagnosed, helped (I hope), and ran the gambit of searching... it may simply be time to step back and allow myself the patience to let those feelings fly.

In my dream, I'm standing in the corner of my old back yard. Looking at how lovely the old marital home is. It was especially picturesque from the back of the lot, if possible... is dusk, no one else is there. Instead of blame and anxiety, I am just trying to scan how I'm feeling about being there. Then accept that emotion as legit....

I know it goes against the "stop obsessing" concept, but I've done everything else, why not try simple acceptance, and hope the bad emotions will go away, and I will be able to feel the "good feels" too.

P.S. In this format, I'm only allowing myself to focus on the emotions I have about this, not my xh, kids, cats or dogs...
Pema (name?) speaks of this too. But last year I was way too close to the burn to just submerse myself in my feelings.... it overwhelmed me.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/28/17 11:26 PM

For some reason, I'm still there, sitting atop a dark brown (roan) horse. We could have, but never had horses there. All very still, all very quiet. Peel back the layers, see what comes to mind, accept the feelings for what they are....

tread carefully, be kind to yourself.

That's it. On the back hill, sitting on a horse, thinking I should be kind to myself.

-- weird process, no?
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/28/17 11:48 PM

No WUD I get it. I still mourn my beautiful home and the intact family I wanted for my son. And the success of staying in a long term marriage that no one thought would work.
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/29/17 02:04 AM

I grieved terribly for about two years. The grief lessened more and more after that until I was through the grieving process.

Today I can appreciate certain things that might not have come about if there had been no divorce.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/29/17 03:21 AM

Has nothing at all to do with monetary means or property... it has to do EDMR style, with self perception.

I'm just clicking over the 3 year mark since BD... the finality of it all is really just settling in. I thought I was there before, but not really, I wasn't.

The fact that I am behind the house, means I am looking back at my "old life". How picturesque I thought it was.
But the fact that there is no one home, not even the pets running around indicates #1. Either the illusion that what I thought was there in the past was really NOT there -
or - possibly #2. They are no longer there now. Sad truth.

That I am on a horse indicates I'm about to travel or go on a journey. I think.
The atmosphere is calm, but heavy, like before or after a storm. I imagine that is just drama and theatrics, my mind "revving up" for the next step.

I really cared about all those beings and people who were in that house, it was the culmination of a life's work, savings, building and experiences...

Now - here's where I have to stay to the right and not veer. I have to only concern myself with how I feel or what emotions I have about this particular "memory".
To get distracted or just get angry or blame the ^%&^$%& who screwed this all up does ne no good. That part I understand.

It is a huge effort to suss out the emotions, put them all out on the table, and critically look at them. To feel the good feels, sometimes you have to wade thorough the bad. I think I am at a point that I can self direct myself into the proper channels of this "mapping".

Instead of a spiral down into tears, I feel like I got somewhere.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/29/17 03:47 AM

Ok, but where's the chocolate cake? wink
Posted By: Blair

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/29/17 03:49 AM

You absolutely did get somewhere! This is big stuff, working through feelings and emotions and a mapping plan. Being able to think through it and feel it even though it hurts is a great improvement.
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/29/17 06:14 AM

This is really cool and impressive work you're doing, WuD!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/29/17 11:52 AM

It's called mapping, a cross between edmr, and other visualization processes.

The interesting thing is, once you set the start of the map, your associations are never wrong, the images represent what you believe they represent. I've always been an image based person, so with me it comes natural. Trying to keep the sussing out on a healthy track for me the hard part.

When it gets off track, you simply put it away for awhile. It's a mire of "feel the feels". Someday I hope to be able to look at those emotions (jealousy of losing a partner, how poopy people seem to get ahead..) and see them from a distance, too.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 06/29/17 01:36 PM

I'm impressed with it too, WUD.

I'm doing things like this too. Managing my emotional experience to get at the good stuff. It's fascinating and illuminating and VERY productive imo.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: WuD? - Moving on. - 07/02/17 01:32 AM

ooooh, man! I just wrote a huge post about the mess I'm trying to repair now... It disappeared...
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

11 - 07/02/17 01:33 AM

Found it-

Hiya, hiya, hiya- wubba, wubba, wubba. Just me, promising myself to NOT go buy anything more for the house....
So, into the Architectural Salvage yard I go....
AMAZING. 5 inch wide Artisan hand scrapped, Maple flooring, with 8 topcoats of satin varnish- still in original shipping boxes... hhhmmmm. - Just sitting there, minding their own business... Me checking things out, looking for crown molding, just minding my own business... hmmmmm... Just enough for my enclosed front porch...
So, loading it up, I was guessing the square footage, wondering about that houses sub floor--
Some OTHER jack wagon {obviously not the menace to home ownership owner prior to me, but ANOTHER ONE} -- put huge ceramic tiles on top of god knows what out there.. tile is fine if you are in Florida... cracked 16 inch tile does not look groovy in a wooden historic home... but that's just my, and people with taste's, opinion.
Got it all home unloaded (the case weighs more than 75 lbs. each) -- all 7 of them.

This house is going to bankrupt me...

Here is the style..
http://www.bellacerafloors.com/hardwood-flooring/Diamanti/Maple/Goldenrod-flooring.aspx
I paid a little over $3.00 a square foot at the salvage yard-- retail about $12.99 + shipping to order... - but I found it for $7/sq/ft.

Debated "flipping" the boards, {selling them for double} then decided they were too cool to just let go by, the porch IS the entry way into this style of home...
I have left over underlayment in the garage....

The big "hold your breath" moment was pulling up the tile and subfloor. Thank the LAWD it was on top of NOT cement board but underlayment. It popped off rather easily - but weighed a ton. Crowbarred all the screws out of the floor.. tile, underlayment, BROWN Astro turf remnants., --OMG!, >woof< then zillion year old laminate... looks like hell. >sorry 1940- 1950 YOU had ugly linoleum patterns... glued to OLD floorboards (the ones I see from the basement.)
You know, they loved nails back in the day... and strong glue... So, down to linoleum - can cleat right through that sucker into the original wood - Still in pretty solid shape. Georgia Pine planks, people.

So. $532 out of pocket, on boards, pre finished. I hauled out material myself, have underlayment - to rent pneumatic nailer is $39, heeheehee - boom!boom!BOOM! --going to reuse the trim I just installed last summer.... I think under $600 total should do it...depending on the cleats cost...

Just hoping trash collection will take the tile sections in pieces, each week... They have been really good to me....
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: 11 - 07/02/17 02:26 AM

Sounds beautiful!!!!

Ok, me imagining you with a crowbar and a pneumatic nailer.......not a woman I would want to cross. smile

I admire all your energy.

Hugz,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/02/17 02:56 AM

Taking assessment.
Have 1 gal + 1/2 KILS; going to stain block, treat the top of the linoleum before I put anything else down. Smells funky and I did not like the amount of moisture I saw under there. Can't hurt under the felt underlayment.
Paint Roller = Gah! need to get one... dagnubit. Chemical sand = check.
Underlayment = check.
Staples = check
18 g Nails = check
To buy list;
roller, paint, wood filler, Cleats and (soon) rental. 11:00, time to turn my brain off....

Really jealous of all the wonderful trips everyone seems to be taking....
I have not been able to take a vacation anywhere without terrible, crippling loneliness. I mean the WORST. Even when I'm traveling with other people. It's just so depressing, I'd rather have stayed home.

So, allocating travel "fun" money to porch seems like a really fair trade this summer... France and Italy next year... I hope I come around.
Posted By: Blair

Re: 11 - 07/02/17 03:49 AM

Travel with close friends or a group next year. For now, take time to heal and stay busy working on your house. Enjoyment of vacations without loneliness will come back over time when you are more healed.

I'm totally jealous of all the amazing things you find for your house. You are a great designer. And you have the ability to begin with the end result in your mind too. Not too many people can do that.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/03/17 04:37 AM

Split the day half visiting graduation parties, half prepping for the flooring installation (tomorrow, I'f I'm lucky I'll have help.) I threw out my back twisting and moving these planks (75 lb boxes). I can't twist sideways, and everything is slow going.
One former student said she will help in the afternoon, give me time to staple and chalk line the joist lines on felt subfloor. Also can set first two rows...(by hand)

Anyhew -- Pulled up to the party and saw many former students. Nice to see faces light up. Many still called me by my old name, I didn't sweat it. We talked for quite awhile.

It's just shocking that I was tore down and abandoned like trash by xh, -- he's about the only one who sees me like that. Most people really think I'm just swell...
You know who tells me I'm a rude abuser? No one. Ever. No one except him. >sigh< at least I can remember this now without getting too depressed. Closer to acceptance.

I don't buy that I am this terrible person, I understand it can be very common with WS, blaming and fingerprinting - but it still is painful to remember. You always believe it -- on some level.

Subfloor primed, felt paper cut to length, power tools brought up from basement.
wood trim filled, sanded, re painted, 3 times! frown - white plastic trim chemically stripped of dripped wall stain...

Figured out that I'm going to have to run the planks long ways, (22 ft width of house) wanted to run them 7 ft length, porch style - but the joists run that way. Even though I have 1" pine subfloor out there I should nail into joist for support. I hope it will look good. 180 from my assumption. Just surprised me.

Still not sure of this layout. Hopefully all done tomorrow.. LOVE pre finished wood planks! Dropping off. Have a good holiday...
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: 11 - 07/03/17 02:17 PM

WuD: As we have explained many times, your ex MUST tell himself that you are the devil incarnate. That is the only way he can justify to himself what he did to you. It actually has nothing to do with you. He would have to say that to himself (and anyone stupid enough to listen to him) about ANY woman he did that to.

If I ever cheated on my wife or left her, I would say the same terrible things about her. And no one who knows her would agree. But to me it would be real and true and accurate.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/04/17 03:28 AM

Thanks Hold. The mental bending of living with gas lighting is really powerful.

I'm just dragging. I overdid it. I threw out my back a few days ago, so today I asked for help - rented the nailer -- She never showed. Had to haul all tools up stairs and move the wood plank flooring, again - by myself.

WARNING! Boring, but here's the list. Covered primed subfloor with felt, stapled like a madman. Found one joist through old vent hole - lazer leveled that joist (check - pound nail through NEXT to mark where beam side is- check basement -- Yup, I'm off - move over....
Sketched other lines square 16" on center -- nail 6 test nails to basement FOUR had to be moved (what a disaster if I had not checked)-
Set up tool shop in front yard, Hauled 525 pounds of dead weight planks- organize them by length -- lay two rows by hammer, figure out how pneumatic cleat nailer loads -- What a tool!! smile smile boom,boom,boom!!! yippie! I'm 50 and I finally get to nail stuff!!!
My back broke in half - nothing went quickly -- I stopped and recut/re squared every time things got out of line.. sssssssllllllloooow. The 5" wide planks bend, they have to be "reasoned with" to lay straight and fit together.

PS they are stunning -- all scrapped and chowdered up --
I had to stop and re cut door, straighten course, finish last 3 rows by hammer.
No visible nails in basement. smile
Refit second doorway, fixing old wall trim issues as I go >geez<... Good news? Floor set except for 2 pieces.
Haul miter, table saws, compressors, cords and tools back into house - pick up yard. Recycle. bag trash...

17 hours later... straight. -- I can't move.. Something snapped. I was going to finish that floor by sheer will...
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/05/17 09:05 PM

Yesterday I changed the paint on wood trim - multiple chemical stripper,scrape,vinegar neutralizer, chemical deglaze and 2 coats of new color -- plus re cleaning stained lower piece/mop rail - I use 2" x 1/2 inch outdoor vinyl for floor - will not dent and cleans up well. Top that with 1/2" x 4" trim board.
re trimmed out the stoop for entryway with wood filler, flooring, aluminum guard screwed down and caulked. So clean and pro looking. Sat away the afternoon taking it easy on my back, posting to FB and reading. Slowly cleaning and setting areas back up - house is trashed!

It is the most professional job I have done in this house to date. It is truly a wow... people are shocked that I got it done by myself...worth the effort...

I joked that "I'm drinking cofvefefe listening to David Bowivfefe. Going to sit out here and yell "Get off my lawn!" to passers by just for fun. What a transformation from the drop ceiling, florescent light - tacky tile porch of before...
Posted By: Blair

Re: 11 - 07/05/17 11:04 PM

Any photos yet?? smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/06/17 04:46 PM

As I take another victory dance -- here is an article about an INCREDIBLE Optometry student I know....

https://covalentcareers.com/blog/luxottica-onesight-tanzania-give-gift-sight/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=CovalentCareers&utm_content=Luxottica%20and%20OneSight%20Tanzania%20Give%20Gift%20of%20Sight%20to%203,528%20People

First real interview...
Posted By: Miranda

Re: 11 - 07/06/17 06:08 PM

So amazing WUD.

You have a lot too be proud of there. A lot!
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: 11 - 07/06/17 07:00 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
As I take another victory dance -- here is an article about an INCREDIBLE Optometry student I know....

https://covalentcareers.com/blog/luxottica-onesight-tanzania-give-gift-sight/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=CovalentCareers&utm_content=Luxottica%20and%20OneSight%20Tanzania%20Give%20Gift%20of%20Sight%20to%203,528%20People

First real interview...

Now that's what I call a real margin [bleep]! Lol!!!

The second thing on the left.... next to the smilies.... is a link thing. It already jas the http part so you'll have to delete is before pasting in the url. Then it will make a useable link and I can read the interview.

In the midst of all the crap, you have much to be proud of! smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/06/17 07:17 PM

That second photo, of "she who shall not be identified", checking the babies eyes is a fantastic photo. I know nothing about photography, but I can see the artistic as well as the journalistic significance in it.
That little fry guy, mimicking her motions - that is when you know your teaching is working... you see that concentration.


Yes. Much to be proud of, with both DD's. It's a shame my xMIL {old ER nurse, NOTHING fazed her, ever-- } who always thought she was going to have "her doctor" - not with her dunderheaded children or grandchildren - finally got her "doctor". {Giggle} - and it's a GIRL - double whoop! Raise the roof.

She will never know. Never see a wedding photo - never... I doubt she cares.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/06/17 07:19 PM

I copied the entire thing and pasted it into bar - it got me there....
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/06/17 07:20 PM

http://covalentcareers.com/blog/luxottica-onesight-tanzania-give-gift-sight/?utm_campaign


like this??? I'll try Thanks...
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: 11 - 07/06/17 07:46 PM

Yes! It works!

Now if you would be so kind as to edit the other post. I'm on my phone so a margin [bleep] is extra frustrating to deal with as the letters are teensy tiny. Lol

Be back after reading the article.....
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: 11 - 07/06/17 08:02 PM

What a fantastic trip! She gained much more than optometry experience. I'm happy for her... and for you!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/07/17 01:00 AM

Can't edit... timed out, smile
That's my kid!!!!!

I only read the article... The video clip was really great too.. Those kids who went.. those people they met.. cool.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: 11 - 07/07/17 01:01 AM

How wonderful WUD.

Very informative!!!!

Thank you so much for sharing. highfive
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/07/17 01:07 AM

did you watch the video? so encouraging...
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/07/17 01:10 AM

She was touched that many doctors would pull her aside to show her diseases and special findings, which she recognizes is a once-in-a-lifetime experience. ďI saw more disease in the week-long clinic than I probably will throughout the rest of my formal education,Ē she adds, noting that the trip improved her efficiency and confidence with procedural skills, especially direct ophthalmoscopy.

She is still astonished and impressed by the fact that her team provided care to over 3500 patients during a single a week-long trip.

Love muses, ďOur daily problems are trivial compared to theirs. They are focused on surviving: finding their next meal, clean water, and clothing for their child. They worry about a flood that could wash out their homes.Ē Love took home a renewed outlook life; she plans to always be thankful for what she has, rather than focusing on the small things. And she will always be grateful for her health.
Posted By: Blair

Re: 11 - 07/07/17 01:23 AM

What a great opportunity!
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: 11 - 07/07/17 01:44 AM

Yes. I was trying to figure out which one was your daughter. wink
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/07/17 10:10 AM

She only pops by the vid a few seconds - those other students were the inspiring ones in that show! DD23 thinks there was one from every College of Optometry in the US) The article was more about her interview..
Posted By: SFB

Re: 11 - 07/07/17 11:48 AM

WUD:

Great job with your DD23.

SFB
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: 11 - 07/07/17 11:59 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
did you watch the video? so encouraging...


I watched it. It was amazing! Your dd is amazing like her mom!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/07/17 01:33 PM

It's funny. She was embarrassed and ridiculed me for marching on Washington in January. She thought I was nuts.. she still won't take her pink pussyhat someone gave me.

Six months later, here's her fanny in Washington holding a sign pro Optometry benefits for veterans. {they will be cutting 450,000 off optometry in the VA. } Plus for all people, they believe optometry should be included as primary care for all, not a rider...

I think she had one of those "When you realize, in horror, that you have become your mother." moments... laugh1
Posted By: Miranda

Re: 11 - 07/07/17 02:11 PM

Lol. So early for one of those moments. That's when you know you've made a huge impact on who she is.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: 11 - 07/07/17 06:09 PM

Lol. So early for one of those moments. That's when you know you've made a huge impact on who she is.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: 11 - 07/07/17 06:15 PM

Her experiences has inspired you to share it with us. In turn that has educated us and we can share that with others.

Let her know that her actions have good consequences and to keep up the good work. thumbsup
Posted By: Blair

Re: 11 - 07/08/17 01:49 AM

Yep. She is so much like her mother. (Just don't tell her yet.) Be proud, WuD. She has such compassion and intelligence.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/13/17 09:26 AM

It's amazing how something is not my circus, nor my monkeys keeps trailing by me.
DD23 is looking at a placement {Hawaii or Oregon} after she graduates Optometry school. If you knew her, you would not be surprised to know she has charts about average salaries, house mortgage rates, cost of living and opportunities for my SonIL in mind. He either needs to get a masters in his area of study or find something else he wants to do.

Soooo, she has been contacting me about her assets. She has a few older investment accounts, not worth much $$, but these things can be used in financial docs. Especially when you are counter balancing student loan debt..

She asked me directly if there were other things she should list.

When both kids were under 18, we bought life insurance policies {savings accounts, basically} for both girls - or so I thought. We had to hurry DD23 (then 17 quickly through the health screening so we could initiate.) The payments were to be handled through XH work. It was a good savings plan for both girls.

Come to find out, xh never "purchased" policy for older kid, even after we went through all that paperwork to get it set up. He told me "he forgot", and by then it was too late for us to cover her, she was over 18.. (OR this could be just another of his compulsive lies.)
I felt terrible. Why would you set this up for only one kid? How would you like to find out your (well off) parents paid into a life long savings plan for your sibling, but not you?

When he admitted, pre bomb drop, about this, I insisted we do something to equalize the error (if girls keep the policy current, going until age 62, it will be slightly less than $100,000 - it should have been each.) - but XH "forgot" to start policy for the eldest - the one he NEVER got along with - caused great issues within the family.

It's going to come out that the policy was never purchased, for DD23... Even though this was purchased through her dad's religious group and paid from work account, I was just as much a parent as he, I should have made sure. It just never crossed my mind that after all that trouble, he would decline to buy it.

I'm not going to be the one to tell either girl. They both are aware that we "started" the process, although I'm sure younger probably has no recollection of the process. I would never do something like that for one child over another, but I have social skills and understand future consequences.

With little "Ms. Financial" working out her 10 year plan - ( she does not believe me that if you want to give God a good laugh, tell him your plans.) She should be told. I wouldn't want to learn 40 years from now about this....

Also, I'm a "tell the truth, so people know, let chips fall." kind of person. Withholding permanent info is no better than lying straight to someones face, in my book.
Posted By: TC_Manhattan

Re: 11 - 07/13/17 11:50 AM

Man, oh man...

Is there anyway you could get her to hear this from her dad instead of you?

Would she ask him directly? sos
Posted By: Blair

Re: 11 - 07/13/17 12:07 PM

TC has a great idea. Your XH wouldn't be honest about it though.

Do you have any other documentation regarding the incident?
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: 11 - 07/13/17 12:30 PM

What are we trying to accomplish here? Give DD23 the info she needs to craft her plan? Make WS look even worse than he already does? Try to make him face his failures?

She asked if there is anything else to list. The answer to that question is "no".

She didn't ask "if my younger sister was making a list, would there be anything else to list?" She didn't ask "was Dad even more of a jerk than I realize?" or "do I have any additional reasons to hate him?" Those are different questions with different answers.

I can understand wanting to bring this into the light. Choose the time and manner carefully. This might be a "when Dad dies" thing rather than a "today" thing. Lots can change between now and when Dad dies. Do you know if the policy for younger D is still in effect? Maybe he cashed it in to fund the A? Maybe he stopped paying premiums and the costs and expenses have eaten up the first few payments? Many insurance policies lapse before the insured dies. Lots to ponder.
Posted By: MaidUpName

Re: 11 - 07/13/17 12:41 PM

Hold is wise.

Your daughter gains nothing by knowing the policy isn't in place.
Posted By: Blair

Re: 11 - 07/13/17 12:45 PM

You can always say you are not aware of anything else, but you will let her know if you think of something.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: 11 - 07/13/17 01:07 PM

She asked you if there was anything else to list at this time. The answer to that is "no." Hold is right about that.
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: 11 - 07/13/17 02:57 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc??
How would you like to find out your (well off) parents paid into a life long savings plan for your sibling, but not you?

It happened to me regarding money for college and I did not like it. However, it shouldn't have come as the shock that it did (should have questioned it much sooner than I did based on many years of this sort of thing). Also, my other parent should have checked periodically imho (also based on many years of this sort of thing happening). So, I was mad at myself first and at the other parent second and the parent who withheld promised money from me third.

Btw, it was difficult at times to remember that it was not the fault of... or in the control of... the sibling who was awarded "my" money. In fact, when she told me of her mixed feelings about accepting financial help, I asked her if she believed that I would get the money if she declined "my" portion of it. Of course, the answer was No so she felt less bad about taking it.


Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
Lots can change between now and when Dad dies.

I've mentioned before that our exes were similar in how much worse than the norm they were but Hold is right that a lot can change. All my kids have a different relationship with their father but each relationship is really good today.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/13/17 07:14 PM

I don't even know if my gals remembered singing up (they all had to have physicals/doctors reports.) Since kids don't give a hoot about things like that, they may have forgotten it, completely.

I know I'm not withholding any info. I've been "nicely lied to" my entire life. Guess what good that did me? Zero, but I'm sure the liars felt much better about themselves.
In this case I don't know the entire story, so I can't tell her anything, except that maybe - her policy does not exist.

If jack wagon cancelled BOTH policies, that in my mind would be preferable than have siblings deal with this *&^*&^. Example: My friend has not spoken to and has been sued by her sibs for over 2 years now, since her mom's death. This type of stuff is a mess... they used to be close.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/13/17 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: MaidUpName
Hold is wise.
Your daughter gains nothing by knowing the policy isn't in place.


I disagree. If both had or both didn't have policies, I wouldn't think twice.

But WE, as parents, promised this. Not lightly, either. What is good for one chick, is equally given to the other.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/13/17 07:22 PM

Originally Posted By: LivingWell
Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc??
How would you like to find out your (well off) parents paid into a life long savings plan for your sibling, but not you?

It happened to me regarding money for college and I did not like it. However, it shouldn't have come as the shock that it did (should have questioned it much sooner than I did based on many years of this sort of thing). Also, my other parent should have checked periodically imho (also based on many years of this sort of thing happening). So, I was mad at myself first and at the other parent second and the parent who withheld promised money from me third.

My point. I'd be furious if my mom knew and didn't tell me. for decades..

Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
Lots can change between now and when Dad dies.

Dad can rot. These policies are set up in kids names, with of course, dear old dad as the alternate. He can't possibly equalize these. (At least, not the amount in the future - they were savings plans, probably worth $20,K now- that he or I as establishing parents of minors, legally could set up in that window.

The benefits were starting the policy young, and let it grow over time... this is the same passive aggressive game his parents played between their children. I can't believe he lived through it and would set up a similar.


I've mentioned before that our exes were similar in how much worse than the norm they were but Hold is right that a lot can change. All my kids have a different relationship with their father but each relationship is really good today.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/13/17 07:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Blair
You can always say you are not aware of anything else, but you will let her know if you think of something.


I would never say something like this to either of my children, If I really knew info to the contrary.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/13/17 07:32 PM

Thank you, everyone for bouncing off your opinions, it really made me think of what my decisions will be.

I will remind gals that there was "some life insurance policy" that was taken out, but possibly could have been fallen by the wayside/cancelled during the drama of divorce. Since their father's church group issued them, and apparently women have no role in the Knights of Columbus "man things" - they are going to each ask their dad about the status.

There. No one is counting on something that is not there, and there will be no surprises in the future that I was part of enabling. Since DD23 was specifically asking, and yes, the balance could be mortgage collateral...etc. -- better to know now.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: 11 - 07/13/17 08:25 PM

angry Very sad to hear that their father thought it was better he either not setup or cancel a policy for his children, regardless if he did it on one vs both children. very_angry

It is sad how selfish some people allow themselves to become. Very disappointing.

As you have taught your daughters to be self-sufficient, you should be proud as their mom. thumbsup
As for being proud of their dad, not so, even not so much. frown

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/14/17 12:06 AM

No lies, no enabling, no pussyfooting around a sensitive situation so I feel better - or having a role in setting up future pain by my refusing to deal with it now.

I did my best. Wrote short, informative e mail - stating my limitations and boundaries - to both gals telling them to check into policies with their father when they want to know - sent and done.

Looking back...
I wish I could have been stronger, fought more "professionally" than I did. Everything in my life was invested with trust, everything was thrown under the bus.

Through the fall out - as of right now, I'm incredibly happy with my investments in time, money and energy I have put forth in the past 2 years. Money lost, money made. Hard to come by, easy to go... Relationships strengthened, some broken off.

{That Lifecoacth guy really straightened out my thinking about my role in all this. Wish I had tuned in earlier!!}
Still have days of sadness - but the best is just beginning to happen. Through my mapping -- I keep coming back to a few constant thoughts;

"There is one 100% certain thing that can keep a man from cheating....
himself."
and
- In the end I learned that I simply can not control the actions of another person. As much as I may wish I could or could have. That wish is about as big a pipe dream as going back into the past to change events.
I find this is something BS fantasize about, too - and I need to stop.

When I truly believed both points, things got easier...
As no one forced him into his choices, no one will force me into being a victim of these disastrous choices, either. Not forever anyway....
Posted By: Blair

Re: 11 - 07/14/17 12:32 AM

Don't beat yourself up about not being strong enough. Your XH was a jerk. You can't fix what he did, but you can be straight-forward with your girls if that is how you typically roll.
Posted By: catperson

Re: 11 - 07/14/17 02:42 AM

I think if there's one truth in life, it's that women give too many chances for people to stop screwing them over. But that's what makes them women - giving and loving and patience.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/14/17 06:28 AM

CP: I bought a license plate at a antique show. All it says is "PHOOEY" on it.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/14/17 06:38 AM

Bragging about myself again. {If you do a good deed and tell, the good juju points fall away, but that's ok on this time...}
DD21 put 300 current DVDs in bins. Told me to sell, give, donate - she's "over" them.. {only 1/4 of her collection - every one a top rated movie, too.}

No one on fake book wanted the bins, but someone suggested a nursing home for donation.. Tripped a fuse, I separated the G, PG, and PG13's out walked them over to the children assisted living house two doors down.
Think of people like Suzanne from the Orange is the new black Netflicks show. Awhile ago, one resident escaped in their drawers and was holding everyone off with a fire extinguisher in the street. I miss all the good stuff..

The staffed thanked me, after talking, they asked if THEY could have the R rated movies.. >> all good by me. Hauled those over too. { i kind of hope they leave the G- g13 movies for the kids. >ahem< }

This house does not even have a DVD player... so guess what I'm buying, now?
I'm a bang up salesman.....
Posted By: Blair

Re: 11 - 07/14/17 11:49 AM

What a great idea!
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: 11 - 07/14/17 01:29 PM

Oh who cares about the juju points.... I'm looking forward to reading about the age appropriate-needs appropriate art peoject you'll think up.

Because you know it's only a matter of time.....

I wonder if the adults will get in on that, too! grin
Posted By: Miranda

Re: 11 - 07/14/17 01:40 PM

I've never seen the show you're referencing so I'm totally confused
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: 11 - 07/14/17 02:00 PM

You are doing a wonderful thing that will touch many lives. As usual. If only the world had more like you WuD.

I have a small home improvement project to do this weekend while Mrs. H is out of town and I am already ashamed of how much less professional it will be than if WuD were doing it. So I see myself as a failure even before I start. But I love reading about your successes.
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: 11 - 07/14/17 02:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Miranda
I've never seen the show you're referencing so I'm totally confused

Suzanne has a kind heart and an interesting way of thinking that gets her into trouble because her frame of reference is much different than the norm. She needs intense structure and lots of supervision. Things can go wonky in a heartbeat without it.
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: 11 - 07/14/17 02:47 PM

Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
I have a small home improvement project to do this weekend while Mrs. H is out of town and I am already ashamed of how much less professional it will be than if WuD were doing it. So I see myself as a failure even before I start. But I love reading about your successes.

I'm the same way, Hold. But then I looked a little deeper and can see that one of the gifts WuD brings to the table is the ability to do more than what was thought possible with less than what is wanted. And with that and a couple ideas feom WuD... I'm kicking ass from the viewpoint of my own scale. I'll bet that you will, too!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/14/17 03:14 PM

Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
You are doing a wonderful thing that will touch many lives. As usual. If only the world had more like you WuD.

I have a small home improvement project to do this weekend while Mrs. H is out of town and I am already ashamed of how much less professional it will be than if WuD were doing it. So I see myself as a failure even before I start. But I love reading about your successes.


I always expect to f-up. And I do. I've just learned how to tune out the boo boos and focus on what is right.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/14/17 03:22 PM

Her character is an adult inmate at a female prison who used to be called "Crazy Eyes", played astonishingly well by actress Uzo Adoba.

With the mind/emotions/naivety of a four year old, my guess schizophrenic, she can be extremely aggressive as shy - she is a sympathetic character.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/14/17 03:24 PM

Well, Babies, - off to the lavender festival an hour away...
I'll come back when the day or my money runs out.

...I so miss my lavender garden....
Posted By: Blair

Re: 11 - 07/15/17 01:49 AM

Enjoy the Festival! smile
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: 11 - 07/15/17 02:17 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Well, Babies, - off to the lavender festival an hour away...
I'll come back when the day or my money runs out.

...I so miss my lavender garden....


When u come out to Maui, go see the Lavender farm out there, it is beautiful. smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/15/17 03:37 AM

DD23 is going to migrate out there after graduation. Says I can live in her guest house....

Festival was beautiful. Brand new hybrid, lavendullan and agustifolia {French, English, respectively} Called Super Blue -- I only bought 3.... 2 year old plants.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: 11 - 07/21/17 09:44 PM

Seems having little "chores" is allowing my head to spin.
I'm very lonely.

I have friends, go out, everyday, do all the "right" kind of emotional inventories, but I still miss my xh. I know that's ok, too. It takes the time it takes.

AND if I'm bored, it means, at least, that the wheels are not falling off some other disaster float parading down my street... so, thats a good thing, no?
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: 11 - 07/21/17 10:02 PM

You've been on an adrenaline rush for so long, it's become a way of life.

Now you have the luxury of pacing yourself to focus on WUD and not the rest of the world around you. That's a good thing. smile

Eventually you will find peace with where you are at and missing your XH will lessen over time.

For me it's been a relief of sorts, so we must be internalizing things differently. My timeline is much shorter than yours so I keep up with you as best as I can. You are one talented and busy woman. If I could get a 10th of what you've got energy wise.......I'm working on it. smile

I wish you well and with peace in your life. You deserve equal portions of both.

Take care,
Orchid
Posted By: Blair

Re: 11 - 07/21/17 11:10 PM

Exactly what are you missing about your XH? If you "put your finger" on the actions, feelings, memories, etc., it may help you to figure of the next step for moving forward.

Orchid is right though too; you have been running on adrenaline so long. It might be time to slow down and learn about your needs.
Posted By: catperson

Re: 11 - 07/22/17 03:11 AM

One thing I always tell people, as most important, is to learn to be ok ALONE. It's the most important thing, to learn to be ok by yourself.
Posted By: Orchid2

Alone again.......naturally? - 07/22/17 04:18 AM

I like my alone time. Doesn't happen much (during work doesn't count).

What I don't do well is allow myself to be pampered. Then again, I've been surrounded by family (parents, in-laws, WST, lack of a sister, etc.), who are anti-pamperers.

Yet I had grandmothers, aunties, uncles even and family friends who were great pampers. smile

I cherish those memories (the good ones) and know the difference. Sigh......that was long so ago.

Then again, I've met many great people in my adult life who have showing their giving and generous side that makes me smile. smile

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: believer

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/22/17 05:47 AM

Cat is right. Please listen to her.

You've had a double whammy, long-time husband gone, and adult children mostly out of the nest. It's especially hard for those of us who enjoyed taking care of others.

It took me forever to be comfortable being alone, more than 4 years.
Posted By: MaidUpName

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/22/17 07:27 AM

I get the being lonely - I posted about it very recently on my own thread.

I get wanting someone to share the ups and downs with

I get missing a partner in crime

I get feeling the loss when your kids do something both great and absurdly daft that you just want to share with the other parent.

I get missing the companionship which you believer would be forever, being part of a partnership, part of a team.

And yea, I know for many of us who have been through this the partnership/team is an illusion. I know it wasn't equal or ideal and I accept that there are rose coloured glasses at play.

But it was an illusion I believed was very real and letting go of that illusion is very hard.

I love alone time, I'm very comfortable with my own thoughts and musings. I love being with my boys and the autonomy not having another parent around affords me. I love being able to make my own decisions and choices without having to defer to another person.

None of that stops the lonlieness tho. We're hard wired to be part of a couple, to share things with a mate. We can of course change that default position but I don't really want to.

WD is not someone now I love, trust or respect, but that doesn't change the fact that once the "us" of him and me was my world, nothing else mattered.

Until that was taken away.

I get it WUD. I wish I could give you words of wisdom as to how to make it better but I'm still looking for that myself.

In the mean time, maybe go and watch The Lego movie smile

MUN
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/22/17 01:30 PM

Alone I'm ok with. I rewired my entire house alone. Oil painting? Spend what you think is concentrating/creating a "few" hours, looking up realizing it's 7 hours later.
There is a reason many artist are introverts, producing something new takes great focus and energy out of you. It is the ultimate experience of alone.

Lonely is different. I don't believe my marriage was a sham, as much as he could, he participated.

Whatever went wrong in his head had little or nothing to do with me. Does not change my past.

My feelings about the marriage/traditional family ending are normal. 33 years together is a long time. Everything is a trigger. even my efforts to not trigger to the trigger is a trigger. I have been advised to acknowledge the emotion and accept that it is a reality. Use it's energy to motivate myself to do other things instead of slipping into depression.
I have to accept, like a endless train blocking the road - now slowing down, that loneliness is there and little I can do to change it, for today.

Eventually I believe it will make me a more healed person. Living with it now is not so great.


Posted By: Orchid2

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/22/17 07:19 PM

The acceptance stage is deeper than just acknowledging things. It produces changes with one's POV and lifestyle.

I believe you are in that stage of acceptance. Your journey isn't over and going through the acceptance stage still lives new choices ahead.

Keep up the moving forward.

Take care,
Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/22/17 08:42 PM

I have to learn to accept instead of ignore the remaining pain. I'm hoping wading through this will lead me to "feel the better feels" sooner rather than later..

Went bargain hunting for the house...got $1,331.37 (20 gallons of Sherwin Williams Exterior Satin Dura and Super Paint, just mixed, brand new 5 gallon pails) for $180.00 total, no tax. 3 shades of grey that I will mix to a medium grey... or turn khaki greenish... left overs from a massive sub division paint contractor job (s).

My is aluminum siding is "chalky" and in need of a good cleaning and fresh coat. >sssssigh. Here I go again. This house is going to keep me in the poor house!!!! But I will be looking styling doing it....
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/23/17 01:51 AM

The color sounds good, and you can't beat the price. Good job finding a deal. Are you going to spray it on, or hire it out?

Regarding the stages of grief, I *was* in acceptance, and just moved back to anger. It frosts my cookies that my STBX stole everything, hid assets, didn't abide by orders, etc. He has gotten away with all his crimes and is still pretending he's the victim. I lost everything I had worked on for 25 years. I obviously need more exercise to work off my anger....

I would come help you paint your house, but alas I am too far away.
Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/23/17 02:48 AM

I would suggest strengthening your group of female friends, to avoid the loneliness. Set up pen pals you can text or email any hour of the day. Make time for them, hopefully they'll do the same.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/23/17 04:26 AM

Blair: I'm probably going to hand paint/roll the house myself. there is really not any hard areas to get to. I can always take my time and go slowly. The prep is 70% of the job. I have a power washer that can help me with that part.
My disabled brother used to be a painter, I can borrow his drop cloths to make it go quicker/neater.

If you lived by me you'd be sick of me! smile

Just have to decide if I want to keep it grey or try to make it green...Got a few weeks to mull that over.

Cat: Doing better with friends. Good idea.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/23/17 07:24 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
......If you lived by me you'd be sick of me! smile


Orchid: I don't think so. smile

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Just have to decide if I want to keep it grey or try to make it green...Got a few weeks to mull that over.......


Orchid: Green is cool.....cooler.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/23/17 01:52 PM

Why not a grey with a hint of green? Or green with a hint of grey? A taupe would be a similar base too. What other house colors are on your street so you can stand out enough but not too much?
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/23/17 06:22 PM

We are painting our house soon and it will be green. I have four samples painted on the back of the house. Everyone who comes to my pool offers an opinion ( as I want opinions). The one I want is rarely their first choice.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/24/17 12:45 AM

The S.W. paint I already have mixed together is a really nice grey (option #1). I got a $2.99 sample made of the darkest Khaki I could (Eastern Bamboo).
I mixed a 10:1 ration (option #2) and 4:1 ratio (option 3).

Took a photo and posted on FB. It is being lit up with opinions, definitely going with #2 or #3. How do I get that pigment, you ask?

I need 3 gallons of white for trim anyway. Brought the deep base tint paint to counter, showed them the Eastern Bamboo color - but told them to please put the pigment in an empty container. I'm buying the paint, it can be any color I want....
They simply had a brain freeze.... Since they were packed I'll go back in the morning....
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/24/17 01:10 AM

Had drinks last night with a fellow "first wives club" gal. She was reminiscing about how she was out west visiting her parents with and infant, he had a reaction to meds so badly he was in ICU for 3 days, out west.

She remembers till this day that her jet setting husband wanted to go to "at least a hockey game" before heading out to collect his family - at that time there was no telling what was going on with their son. 14 years later she still fumes.

--Warning the following is a vent/memory/trigger story that I did obsess over today. --

Trigger for me (I'm at the point that I am viewing the triggers as if they happened to another person, just trying to be objective) my 18 year old had a horrible reaction to Sulfides. Like, 3 emergency room trips, as the effects kept getting worse and worse instead of better.
The last visit, she walked in the house looking like "Hot Stuff" from Casper's gang. Her eyes were maroon. Gasping for air, saying she felt terrible, and needed help. I almost had heart failure right there and then... trying to be calm and get her to ER -like roll her up to door, leave car parked right there fling open her door. With a calm smile on my face...

She freaked even them out a little, within minutes she got two adrenaline "hits", they warned me she was going to shake, but they wanted her breathing to regulate. Holy moly what a terrible thing to witness. The hives were over 90% of her outside body, welted up and -- well it was really alarming. They get hives inside the mouth and throat, I guess too, that is what was concerning doctor, but I was pretty upset... I don't remember exactly.

At that time, XH had been gone a few weeks. Living with OW. I sent a general text out after initial triage, not drama filled, but saying where we were to 5 relatives, xh in that group of text receivers.

XH called me back 4 hours later. He was shrieking and screaming at me on the phone at the top of his lungs. In the treatment room. Accusing me of faking the entire incident to "get him" - Called me f*ing b*t*h, > never before in 30 years had he done that - and DEMANDING to divorce immediately (made no sense how could a medical emergency = need for quick divorce? - except he was laying next to OW, maybe.)

I was in such shock I forgot about that call - or blocked it out until now. WHO would do such a thing to the mother of a teenager gasping/ jittering from reaction/adrenaline?? I thought she was going to stop breathing...I had ZERO nerves left, and his call was beyond cruel.

Good news is that kid was much better on drugs, she's great now and I can look back at that incident, like a show on TV and be disgusted for the "mom" in the picture. It shook me up, even today (I never forget anything so this was extremely rare) It had to be shock, my brain saying "you can't deal with this-- file it away.)




Posted By: Orchid2

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/24/17 01:25 AM

Wow WUD, that's a scary story and one you should remember.

Mine consisted of our son's ER trip due to his 1st asthma attack. It was severe enough to keep him over night in the ER with me by his side.

His father? Getting ready to go to Yosemite (another trigger spot) with OW. Where the OW later tried to impersonate me by signing my name to the hotel tab. ARrrgh...... very_angry

Ws kept apologizing and I kept wondering during my panic, what was I going to do with a sick child and his apology? How was his apology going to help his son in the ER? After I forced myself to calm down (who else was going to do that), I let him know in no uncertain terms that his actions (to go on a vaca with PBR - psycho babble rabbit OW) was unforgivable. Sometime I still hold onto to this day.

He was never sorry enough, guilt ridden a bit but not sorry. How do I know? He hasn't done much since.

Yes, reflection needs to stay real and not get foggy. No rewriting history here, that is what happened.

Guess we all have our stories.

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/24/17 05:01 AM

The attitude of the WS is selfish and depraved. I'm sorry to hear both of your WS' did such painful things.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/24/17 01:37 PM

I think your remembering the incident is a good sign. It means your subconscious thinks you CAN deal with it now. Shows that you are making progress moving on from the trauma - even if it doesn't feel like it every day. You are. Doing great. An inspiration to many. Not just here at MA.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/24/17 02:13 PM

My brain has done that many times, just put things away because it knew I couldn't "do that" right now. I'm sure there are things I might never fully get back. And that's ok. I have clear enough vision now, and enough control over myself, and enough data to know what I'm up against.

It's horrifying that we've had to live through these kinds of things, but some women are burned in the fire, and others are forged in it.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/25/17 02:26 AM

^^^ The memories make me sick, then sad. Who treats their family like that? Even if you don't want to be married to me anymore, the names and venom were uncalled for and vicious.

I'm starting to prep my house to start painting it. Yuck. Not hammer time, but power washer time.. I must be calming down, because instead of general enthusiasm, I'm dreading starting. Getting pre caulk (also swapping out hideously ugly back porch fixture.. if I have to trim escushion plate silhouette through siding + caulk, NOWS the time! >sigh< ) .

I just know it's going to be ALL on me. No one to even make and etch the cherry Iced tea I'll drink 3 gallons of... then moving the ladders and such. I don't care if it takes me 2 weeks to finish.

Painting I like to do - its the rest of the mumbo jumbo (clean, fill, mask, scaffold/ladder - clean up) - that make it drag. Maybe I'll settle into this job as I start. Mixing 20 gallons of paint into one vat then rebucketting should be fun...

wah, wah and wah. Hi, I'm Wah-lly, the weakling....

Well, off to research videos on how to start that monster power washer! glug, glug, glug. TSP solution to the rescue!
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/25/17 04:28 PM

From where I sit, you're well into the journey to full personal recovery. Keep at it!

Remember to.....
Rest when you're tired. Lean on others when you're weary. Throw yourself a pity party every once in a while. Celebrate everything (the ups, the downs, and everything in between) because it's ALL necessary in order to fully recover.

You're doing it, WuD. No one else can do it for you and no one else can take it away from you. It's yours for now and forever.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/25/17 06:27 PM

Old fixture torn off, new installed. Only 9 ft piece of gutter left on hose removed. Re caulking corners/ around light and getting power washer ready to go.

So, my friend gave me 90 degree corner brackets - @ 1900's iron, highly decorative. I have commercial grade raised ridge copper roofing cladding that I can't use that I bought for a front dormer... I could make a simple straight awning for over the slider in the back, the rusty gutter was not helping me, any... hmmmmmm. got enough copper drip rail, enough copper screws...sssssssoooooooooooo --

Iron supports already in chemical stripper, trying to do the mafffs for "mini" trusses for the expansion. Hypotenuse???? Angles??? At least I'm enthused about something on this project. Going to build the under structure supports that rest on the iron supports in cedar, I think...

Need a gallon of trim, Still have entire project under $240 (including $60 new fixture! I git fir $39) Not bad for a complete house re paint (I had some caulk and painting supplies on hand) plus the brackets were gifts. the copper "OOOOppps" buy. Going to price out the cedar now...
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/26/17 01:00 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
So, my friend gave me 90 degree corner brackets - @ 1900's iron, highly decorative....


Totally jealous, WuD. You do find the most amazing projects and hardware too. I'm hoping to see photos...
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/26/17 02:06 AM

FB me... PM
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/26/17 02:34 AM

Cedar is only going to be $60. Meh> can't avoid that cost. ratzzz.

Warning - mind bending boredom next...
Splitting 2" x 6" boards down to 2" x 3"'s. Will double two 9 ft long pieces for the "header" on bracket tips. (a 4" x 4" will look like overkill, so I'm hoping the 4" x 3" seems more to scale.

I will attach 2" x 3" - 9 ft long to house to support. Then cut 7 shorty. notched rafters, again, a 2 x 4 rafters/joists will look like overkill for a 2ft awning overhang.

Deciding on square joist or a simple curve at end. >meh. Know what that means... PINTRIST. I still have to figure out the top piece to the copper panels - due to it being a raised ridge, drip shield can not let water get behind edge.
I'm sure I got everything I need out there somewhere, just converting a Snoopy dog house style roof to a flat awning..
Build as I go. If it 'ain't by the seat of my pants, APPARENTLY I'm not happy.... smile

Coats and coats of paint removed later, the brackets are very nice. Yes, I multitask. Got out pressure washer/ripped down old light and trough. Caulked holes, re caulked two inside house corners, dip brackets - scrub, re dip - attach new light fixture (holy %$#%$#, is that mind bindingly an easy now -- I did the entire thing on auto pilot, without even thinking about it.
Caulked fixture - back to brackets... scrub/ re dip - that will learn ya.

I may spray them, or clear coat and leave rustic. Hardware store for wood. Specialty lumber - load, drive home, put away. open 20 gallons of paint, mix in pigment, test color, clean buckets for refilling.... water plants/feed animules/ start cleaning up deck area for night. Sit down and read news.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/26/17 04:00 AM

Oh good Lord Almighty. Just that fast. Got a call from school a first year teacher, only 43, suddenly fell over at her daughters soccer game (our school team) and passed.

I only had spoken to her a few dozen times last year, but she was always so friendly.
What a horrible thing. She just had updated her Facebook with a pre game photo.
All smiles.

Poor thing and her poor family. Makes you sit back and think.

Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/26/17 12:48 PM

In a literal blink of an eye.

So sad.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/26/17 06:56 PM

WUD,

Very sorry to hear about your co-worker.

My deepest condolences to you and all involved.

Orchid
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/26/17 07:24 PM

Just in shock, still. For her, it was quick, for her loving husband and three kids, it's just beginning.
May she rest and her family find peace.

A co worker put a eulogy of sorts, on FB. A nice paragraph about how she will miss her. She said she admired "her stylish dressing also knew she loved "her some lularoe" clothes. Like the bonded over stretch pants! This teacher sells her tacky lularoe at school.

Did she just make this woman's death a commercial? or am I overly sensitive? I'm not saying a word - but holy $#**! Perspective, please.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/26/17 07:28 PM

I hate making light of such a sad event, -- remember "Ralphie" in A Christmas Story? When he finally got his Little Orphan Annie Secret decoder ring? He frantically deciphered her message, -- only to find a shout out to Ovaltine.

"A Comercial!?!?" he gaped slack jawed. That was me. I just hid the post, I wanted to not be tempted to say anything...
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/26/17 07:42 PM

It shows that some just can't help themselves. Maybe we will never know if they meant to advertise or it just slipped in some weird form of condolence.

Or it could be sly salesmanship, not a style to emulate.

Sad, that kind of style seems to be prevailing of late. Some folks thrive and think they are being caring and coy all rolled into one. Kind of like planting subliminal advertising. Sly and crude but duly noticed.

It is good that other good folks can see through this and you plus others of your teaching staff and provide support for all who were there plus her family and her acquaintances.

Your feelings are not off the mark but more spot on. smile

How to handle such insensitive folks? That probably needs for another discussion at a more appropriate time.

You hi-lited an important point that we should all be aware of.

jmo,
Orchid
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/26/17 10:00 PM

Ouch. Sounds so painful to her family, friends, and all her students. Condolences.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/27/17 04:32 PM

You have a big heart. That is a good thing, even if you end up hurting some of the time. Sorry this is one of those times.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/28/17 04:03 AM

I did not know her well. I can identify with the kids, 2 middle, 1 elementary. My dad died of cancer when I was 13.

This was at a school sports team summer game. Many classmates, coaches, teachers all witnessed the passing of their friends mom.

How awful on a whole other level for them. I, even as a kid, was a friendly but private person, I certainly would have been mortified if everyone was part of it.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 07/28/17 01:36 PM

Wow, that brings a new level to the grief and pain. I cannot even imagine what that was like.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/04/17 09:31 PM

So, dd21 transferred to another UNI, financial aid a mess . Her FAFSA does not reflect my true money. You can't claim league bills/trash car on your income. So we both went to see if there is any circumstances, (at least subsidize the "parent loan."
She said yes, they will, and we listed outstanding debt. Since she wants documentation, I had to dig out "that box". Somehow I found counseling notes from 2010- it was an email interaction between he and I and I got to see what I was like 7 years ago.
His "question s required answers" my replies are pathetic
Posted By: Oblivious2678

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/04/17 11:51 PM

Try and view this is a win. Even though you have to go through this to further prove your DD's financial assistance, you can now see how much you've grown!

You are an inspirational woman in my eyes. You are a "take the bull by the horns" gal! Pat yourself on the back. It's time you give yourself some credit for the progress you have made.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/05/17 12:23 AM

The script is the same, him, describing himself :as abused by family, brave, unappreciated etc, while I was only described in poor terms, it was nothing but a 4 page rant, with me defending myself- alternating between pick me and trying to stand up for myself.
It was like he was building a. case against me. He was lofty holding up a string, and I was trying to climb faster than the scissors could cut.

He demanded answers, but never addressed my replies. This is how the sessions usually went. Why didn't. The counselor stop this obvious lopsided non stop complaining ,?? It was never going to get anywhere. I can tell that as a rookie! Man, I have learned about WS behaviors. I would have walked out now.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/05/17 04:11 AM

You have learned so much, hon. But I'm sure reading them still hurts and you can almost remember where you were when things like that were said to you as well as when they were emailed.

Do something fun this weekend to recharge.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/05/17 09:39 PM

I found a new, lower level of dirt. Scrubbing a house! Seriously, I couldn't stand myself when I gave up for the day! Ick.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/05/17 11:41 PM

Glad you gave up on the deep cleaning. Go out for drinks with your friends tonight. Recharge! Live it up tonight!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/06/17 01:00 AM

Six hours of scrubbing and I'm catatonic . Bought roof jacks, from my good friend , Craigslist, so I do Not fall, splat. Tomorrow is another day&#9760;&#65039; More chemicals and elbow grease! Going to let the house dry for a long while before paint.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/06/17 10:32 PM

How are you today, WuD? Feeling a bit more rested?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/07/17 02:17 AM

Well. Re power washed house (sister was not satisfied) and I made gallon of beef chili, 2 cornbread, green beans and 2 walnut brownies. Enough for at least.six. Chili was excellent- packed it all up drove it to a family. Lost their 49 year old father due to violence while protecting his kid. Tried to break up the fight.

There is s new application that coordinates food in necessary times. This occurred in my school district- so I took today, it was empty- I felt the need... So unbelievable, horrible- these people really have nothing.

I stood there, said "I'm so sorry." Then left . I just feel crummy. Shouldn't be boasting about any deed-- It is cr@p upon cr@p upon another layer of cr@p. All cr@p.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/07/17 02:22 AM

Very proud of you & your empathy. thumbsup

Thx for showing us examples of real care.

U made my day. Thx for sharing. smile
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/07/17 10:57 AM

It's heartbreaking when people don't have the necessities. I'm glad you stepped in to be their Angel. You have such a kind heart. And I needed the reminder today that other people do care.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/07/17 12:22 PM

Well, bounced back a little bit... since I bragged about my deed yesterday, all the good juju drained out of the juju bucket.
Back to square one.

I am lucky to be recovered enough to put others needs and my ability to do something about it above worrying about myself. Closer to my normal. So, in theory, I gained more than I gave.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/07/17 01:26 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?


I am lucky to be recovered enough to put others needs and my ability to do something about it above worrying about myself. Closer to my normal. So, in theory, I gained more than I gave.


This whole thing, of being lucky to be in a position to put other people's needs as a priority and your ability to do something about it, it's a HUGE gift. Not to be taken for granted. Which I do. And I thank you for the reminder to appreciate..
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/07/17 01:49 PM

When you feel your juju bucket is empty, come here and we will refill it for you.

I am sure I speak for many here that you are an inspiration and an example for us all. Those of us who don't do as much to help others are glad to refill your juju bucket so you can go out and do the things we wish we were doing.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/11/17 02:41 AM

I can't lift my arms or feel my legs! Painting a house is way more work than I remember. The front is done (Can I simply just paint the front like a movie prop? ). The change in pattern/new color is shocking. My sis-tag and I stood at the street in shock. Yuge difference. Way more sophisticated,

Also went to a new dentist for the first time in years (my bad). Apparently I have (still have) "exquisite teeth". X rays look "beautiful ". 51 anos, never a cavity nor wisdom tooth. Knock wood. Double jinx, no jjinx back
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/11/17 04:28 AM

I'm jealous of your great teeth. My babies and my horrid pregnancies ruined mine. smirk
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/12/17 02:38 PM

That is terrible. I would have thought years of stress would have weakened mine, but I am very fortunate. So due to rain, had a day off from house painting. Toilet breaks. Instead of buying new tank system, which includes draining, I opted for new everything. I had new plumbing installed, plumber reset old toilet. Had a hairline crack he didn't mention.
Got the new one in, good deal, but could only lift old bowl to front stoop. Looks lovely as yard ornament since I put a planter of flowers in the bowl! Let's hope neighbors think its permanent!!!
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/12/17 10:08 PM

What fantastic yard decor! smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/13/17 07:37 PM

Really hard to read/type on this phone. Hope everyone is well, taking it easy today ( should be painting house) to rest before Plein air festival tomorrow. Get the canvas stamped and paint 3 days, turn in for competition Friday. I'm rusty as heck., hope I finish one!

Had family over for BBQ, my older brother and I were talking about the house project. I spoke about my neighbor (offered cash 2x) who wants to buy house.
He said; "You are never going to leave this place." So matter of fact ly, it felt like a sentence.
Apparently, he does not think I'll ever meet anyone. It was really discouraging. He said it so matter if fact.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/13/17 07:48 PM

I mean, its location, condition and size are extremely affordable, but I'd like to think I'd meet someone and move someday.
Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/13/17 09:27 PM

Why can't your next partner move to YOUR house?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/13/17 10:26 PM

If he only owned his clothes and one fork he could move in.
Posted By: SFB

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/13/17 10:44 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
If he only owned his clothes and one fork he could move in.


That may be true... but why settle for that?

Sure, you might move. That is a choice you will make when it is time to make it.

SFB
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/13/17 11:58 PM

Wait and see what happens. Keep being you and enjoying projects. You will find someone. Do not give up hope yet. No matter what your brother thinks or says.
Posted By: believer

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/14/17 02:06 AM

Don't tell yourself such stupid stuff, WUD. Enjoy your freedom now, because you will find someone. Don't rush it.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/14/17 02:20 AM

Originally Posted By: believer
Don't tell yourself such stupid stuff, WUD. Enjoy your freedom now, because you will find someone. Don't rush it.


Exactly. You are a jewel and will find someone worthy of you when you are ready.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/14/17 02:07 PM

I am confused. You have put all this energy and effort into fixing up the house magnificently and exactly to your taste. And now you are unhappy at the thought you might have to live there for a while? Neighbor is probably viewing the amount of time, effort and expense you have invested in this house and thinking to himself "if I invested that much of my soul into a structure, I would never leave". Your finding a romantic partner (or not) quite likely never entered his thoughts.

I understand that you want to meet someone, fall in love, imagine building the rest of your life together. I am unsure what this has to do with your house? At this stage of life, if you meet a man, no need to move in together right away. You can split time between his place and your place. He shouldn't need to leave more than a toothbrush and 1 or 2 sets of clothes at your house. Don't you already have several sets of plates and silverware? To me, a man who wants to move all his stuff into your house right away is a warning sign.

So I understand you want to meet someone and you eventually want to move in together to a house that is larger than your current house. But I don't see the 2 as tied together as you seem to. can you share some more of why you think meeting someone will inevitably require you to swiftly move out of your house? Thanks.
Posted By: kerala

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/14/17 08:45 PM

Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
I am confused. You have put all this energy and effort into fixing up the house magnificently and exactly to your taste. And now you are unhappy at the thought you might have to live there for a while? Neighbor is probably viewing the amount of time, effort and expense you have invested in this house and thinking to himself "if I invested that much of my soul into a structure, I would never leave". Your finding a romantic partner (or not) quite likely never entered his thoughts.

I understand that you want to meet someone, fall in love, imagine building the rest of your life together. I am unsure what this has to do with your house? At this stage of life, if you meet a man, no need to move in together right away. You can split time between his place and your place. He shouldn't need to leave more than a toothbrush and 1 or 2 sets of clothes at your house. Don't you already have several sets of plates and silverware? To me, a man who wants to move all his stuff into your house right away is a warning sign.

So I understand you want to meet someone and you eventually want to move in together to a house that is larger than your current house. But I don't see the 2 as tied together as you seem to. can you share some more of why you think meeting someone will inevitably require you to swiftly move out of your house? Thanks.


Exactly. Also, are you inferring that your brother thinks you won't meet someone just from his comment about the house? Or did he actually say that he doesn't think you will meet someone?

If (a), that seems like an overinterpretation.

If (b) he is an ass.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/15/17 03:18 AM

He just said "you'll never leave this place."
After building my last house as my own general contractor, the work put in here seems like side projects, really. You should have seen the other house.
Since the other house was filled to the gills, I would never gladly live that way again, it was 280+ man hours decluttering and over 300 man hours moving out. Majority of it done by me on caffeine and no sleep.

Heck, if I had $$$ and inclination, I'd rehab another- except the electrical. That was a Blue nightmare. Artist outdoor paint out competition today (yuck) set up like all 3 stooges together, just painted huge ocher blob on canvas ...tap. Tap . Tap. Newspaper, REALLY??? Threw on glasses -went incognito. F m l .

Ended up with ok painting. Got home located (Craigslist) 24 ft ladder, great shape , $25. Drive hour (each way) to pick it up in my tiny car!! FML. At least painting will be safe .. will use it 4 hours..,,,

No wonder women give up looking for available men. Friends and family act like it's a long st cause, at my ripe old age of 51. I know (kinda) what I want , I certainly don't think I'm unreasonable, will have to see.
Posted By: Chrysalis

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/15/17 03:27 PM

WUD I have a friend who like you is divorced, energetic, lots of interests, and in shape. She has had no trouble at all finding decent men to date. My friend is 60. So you got this if you want it. Set the bar high and fire up OK Cupid.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/16/17 02:02 PM

I am in what I guess to be your target age range and I can't imagine you will have trouble finding men. Now, finding a high quality man who measures up to what you bring to the table, well, that is going to be difficult because you bring alot to the table. Key is viewing the process of weeding through all the hay to find the needle as a fun project. Like a scavenger hunt.

Try to see it this way: every man you meet who does not measure up is another confirmation of how special and wonderful and valuable you are and of your determination not to sell yourself short. If you liked every guy you met, you probably would not have very much self-esteem.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/16/17 02:20 PM

Chrys.
I hear as many different views as there are people. Men say there are no "good" women (trustworthy without baggage), women say there are no good men! (Only Peter Pan, skim what I want without any investment.). Unfortunately, I find too many ladies participating, thinking they will change.

Friends are either "Forget it, you want too much." Or say "Sure, whatever you want." Neither opinion is helpful.

Apparently close to same age, educated and humility is too much to ask. Weird.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/16/17 02:25 PM

The news is freaking me out. This gal, a Catholic, grew up 6 miles away from Robert Miles compound. I have seen KKK crosses burnt at night, investigating what we thought was a barn fire.
Next door lady had a cross burned in her yard- police said it was too crude to be authentic KKK. We only called them klansmen, nothing else.
They act at night, mob rule, you have no recourse against judgement as accused. Mostly, they wanted white only residents. Not all this white heritage stuff you read about today. Still is frightening. I still won't name names- 30 years later.

True, my county BOOMED in residential development after the Detroit riots- and for the new residents fear I have sympathy but I thought this level of hatred was ancient history.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/16/17 06:04 PM

I have avoided watching the news on tv. My advice: switch to the Hallmark Channel.

Too bad they did not order another season of Cedar Cove. Good clean fun. And most of the main characters are middle aged rather than youngsters. So you can crush on them without feeling creepy.
Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/16/17 07:49 PM

It was just buried, and having a biracial president brought it back to the surface; people had to face they had a problem with him being president, and then Trump came in and stoked those fears and fires.
Posted By: kerala

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/16/17 08:13 PM

I'm Canadian and I'M freaking out. Utterly unable to focus today. Can't imagine how I'd feel about all this happening in the country that I love.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/16/17 08:23 PM

Originally Posted By: kerala
I'm Canadian and I'M freaking out. Utterly unable to focus today. Can't imagine how I'd feel about all this happening in the country that I love.


a lot of us stopped loving this country a while back.... just sayin'
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/16/17 09:26 PM

Many of us have people close to us that we love & care for but can't support their agenda, attitude & conduct. Now even more of us have to decide how to take that stance on a wider level.

The parents & relatives of that man who decided to use his vehicle as a weapon where he killed a young woman took a strong stand against his actions. Too many of us don't have that type of conviction but we need to. It is a test of our individual character.

That is one way to disarm harm.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/17/17 02:47 AM

Seriously I thought this blatant "wink/wink" nudge (Add some insulting minority comment here) was over and done around here. Top line in LAnsing State Joirnal?? Trump rally for support draws huge crowd!"

......in my hometown today. I also had a classmate, jerk water bully, pop off on FB, telling me that ; "I don't know this town or county anymore.". Every racist I know gets totally offended when they are called out, they don't think their jokes make them racist.

They all think that if they have/had black friends that proves they are not racist.

My answer? Oh, yes I do. Still the exact same.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/21/17 04:53 PM

This afternoon only...... please report any unusual or obnoxious plant activity to the proper authorities.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/21/17 04:58 PM

I know I quote this guy rather often, here goes..
"...I am not here to weaken your will by spoon feeding you solutions - because I expect bravery, self discipline and the willingness to fight back on your own behalf."
Richard Grannon

I really like the last part of this. Carry on.
Posted By: FashionBarbie

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/22/17 03:21 AM

What is considered unusual or obnoxious plant activity?

Just curious.
Posted By: silverado

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/22/17 03:28 AM

FEED me, Seymour....!!!!
Posted By: FashionBarbie

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/22/17 03:48 AM


laugh1
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/22/17 08:34 PM

Silver for the win!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/22/17 08:37 PM

I was wondering if anyone would bite. Called baiting the crowd?
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/22/17 11:55 PM

I loved the sense of humor this morning. I burst out laughing but couldn't post at the time. smile
Posted By: Kayla

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/23/17 08:34 PM

http://arbingerinstitute.com/BlogDetail?id=42

Really good read for avoiding the heart-pounding stress about the decline of society - getting our own hearts right
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/25/17 02:41 AM

Oh, Fudge.
10,300 people read a response I gave on Quora this week alone. I had my real (really old) name on there. Yikes.
Who knew? Would not like to have former students/co workers having that much insight to my brain.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/25/17 05:07 AM

Wow! You're famous if 10,300 people are reading what you wrote!

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Oh, Fudge.


Sometimes stuff happens. Chocolate in any form, including fudge, sounds fantastic. It's good that you figured it all out and got it all fixed up, though I do appreciate your sense of humor. smile
Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/25/17 01:10 PM

Kayla, thanks for that link. Good stuff. Especially what Grant did at the end of the war. I don't see our current president doing anything of the sort, sadly.
Posted By: Kayla

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/25/17 07:38 PM

Cat - I agree, and I also see both sides doubling down rather than seeing the humanity on the other side.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/26/17 09:20 PM

It's rather depressing that is is so active all over the world now. Yes, it had been places for decades, it seems everywhere is boiling over at the same time.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 08/26/17 09:30 PM

PS. I hope everyone is having a relaxing end of summer.

I seem to be stuck on the work mode, carefully putzing around painting the exterior of my domicile. About 1/2 done with the painting part but cleaning/ prep was about 4 solid days of work I didn't expect to be so intense.

Even though I enjoy the work, I'm still spending too much time thinking about the past and comparing life now to life then. I know things could be way worse, so I keep on trucking.
One kid on Iceland, the other planning a Hawaii trip for herself and husband. Feeling a bit alone...glad they have the sense of spirit.

My real estate agent friend wants me to upgrade the house website, she thinks it could be helpful to new home buyers.

I certainly have the photos for it. It does take time to upload.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/01/17 01:51 AM

Anybody around? Hey, got a great story. My one horse town called New Boston has the best "caring citizens of NB" FB feed. I do not post, but LOVE to read it. -- -- This town has characters.

For example. This elderly lady, Amy, was complaining she had heard there was a "stripe club" coming into downtown. Downtown of 10 buildings. No matter how much people tried to convince her that it was a strip mall, not a strip club, "stripe club", proposed -- she insisted her information was accurate and wanted o know what everybody else had heard.

So, the speculation ran amuck, (wondering what exactly happens at a stripe club?)
"First rule of stripe club... you don't talk about stripe club".

Then they pontificated about an actual strip club;
WHO would hold the auditions?
Where would the auditions be? Apple Charlie's Orchard? Someones garage?
Where can one cash their paychecks for entirely single dollar bills? We only have one bank in town!
Much to poor Amy's upset. scratch

But the best comments were along the "What shall we name the place?" portion of the thread.
"Nude Boston?" Instead of New Boson
"Pole Barn a go go."
And the ever popular "As$$phalt and Striping Co."

You can't make this up. I love these people. laugh1
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/01/17 02:48 AM

That's hilarious! Gotta love the people in your area. Enjoy them!

Happy September tomorrow.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/01/17 11:28 AM

If only life had those kind of problems. laugh1 Too cute!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/01/17 07:03 PM

Today it continues:
Pot Stirrer #1. "What happens at a stripe club? Just asking for a friend."
Pot stirrer #2: "Here we go again!!!"
Poor old Ann: "It's where women take off their clothes for money."
Pot stirrer #3: >gasp!<." Noooooooi!"
Township Trustee: "Again. There is no stip club coming to our town."


Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/07/17 05:19 PM

Kayla;
re read that article, trying to wrap my head around it's contents.
It reminds me of this Polish dude:

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Nietzsche

The key I think is understanding your own boundaries and beliefs. Secondly, valuing how strongly you support that belief.
Then third presenting your positions in a way that has fearlessness and integrity. I will always be seen as the "odd gal- with a funny walk AND art weirdo now loudmouth/ know it all" to those folks. It has made me a better person because of it.

I know one thing for sho. Once someone has crossed the line of "no coming back" (like me and charter schools for example. Once what was probably a workable solution has by and large destroyed 250 year old traditions of community and education for this country. Was it worth it? no.)

I know I will probably never believe in the private school schlock again. My state, one that has one of the highest college/population ratios, is now dead last in the country in sustainable learning growth pedagogy.
NYT.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/07/17 05:20 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/magaz...st.html?mcubz=3

^^^ Michigan Gambled on Charter Schools. It's Children lost. Published three days ago, NYT. YEAH! Betsy DeVos! Coming to a state near you! It's cheaper! Voters don't care!
I am so jaded about Charters I have way past my ability to stomach even discussing the pros and cons.

I imagine many people are this way with right/left politics.
Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/07/17 05:33 PM

Me too.

Did you hear what she was supposed to do today? Something about the issue of campus rapes and how she wants to make sure that those ACCUSED of rape have better rights because they're being mistreated. SMDH
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/07/17 09:40 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
I am so jaded about Charters I have way past my ability to stomach even discussing the pros and cons.


Me too. One of my local charter schools broke FERPA laws recently. That's a serious and fairly obvious mistake to make....
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/08/17 01:25 PM

I'm a Catholic. I understand private schools even the religious schools (Except the Jesus on a dinosaur school) can excel and have nothing but the success of the students in mind.
-- I got that. I'm already there.

This &*((*&$(* going on in my state. We are now dead last in educational improvement by many markers. Dead last. MY high school is a top 5% producer in the state, but the kids in D twoit (city limits 10 miles away) are suffering, have been declining for
9808908980
grrrrrr. Time to meditate...
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/08/17 01:43 PM

Charter school. Pillage community because they are often "gifted" former public buildings bought and built with taxpayer dollars.

The admin makes $125,000 a year, the staff make @ $15/hour (with $80,0000 carried in student loan debt.) Minimum wage workers instead of teamsters = poor quality maintenance.

Michigan tax payer money is funneled out of the state, often to online charter schools in California.

NO oversight, no accountability. No one cares. Admittedly, some do very well, but 70% of charters are given a "D" or failing grade (70% are in the bottom half of school rankings) but their charter is gleefully renewed by DeVos Mackinaw Center - without accountability.

Where else can a for profit business get fronted land, bricks and mortar, guaranteed positive income at the onset and absolutely no accountability for production??? Name one other industry that allows this?
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/08/17 02:52 PM

Happens all the time. Private company gets land for free as part of state government deal to entice them to build a factory. Tax breaks for a decade or more. Relief from environmental and safety regulations. And then they hire everyone for minimum wage, except for the jobs they offshore to pay even less.

That is how every pro sports stadium gets built these days. Taxpayers pay for the stadium and team owner gets all the revenue.

Everyone agrees the US needs more investment in infrastructure. No agreement as to whether the government should own the new stuff and provide it to residents free or at cost or whether we should grant concessions to private companies to build the new stuff and let them charge tolls or fees for residents to use them. Any guesses which one triggers higher campaign contributions to politicians?

Welcome to capitalism in the 21st century. Much like capitalism in the 19th century. Turns out that 20th century capitalism as regulated by Progressive-era and New Deal-era reforms was the exception and not the norm.

Not saying the problems in educational policy aren't real. Just saying it isn't the only industry mired in corruption. Power may corrupt. Huge piles of money don't do a bad job of it, either.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/08/17 03:04 PM

Hold is right. I work for a company that is going down the tubes for exactly this reason! It's been here for over 70 years, but the company that runs it and the board of directors and fat cats are getting their huge share, won't spend a dime on keeping the place up to standards or paying the few of us that they will keep on to run it. As a result we've got EPA problems now, building falling apart, morale issues from hell, can't keep or attract any new employees worth a damn.

And business isn't growing because there's no one to grow it! I'm out the door in a year. And not a minute too soon. I'll be surprised if the place is still running.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/08/17 03:09 PM

Oh, and WUD, thanks for explaining what is going on with charter schools. My sister in law worked for one, like 15 years ago. She's the most amazing teacher imaginable. Golden Apple winner (more than once I believe)

Her school was very highly regarded. But I understand now. I get why she suddenly wasn't there anymore. She got too "expensive" for them. And no matter how good she was, it wasn't cost effective, and because it's a $$$ driven business, out she went.

What a terrible thing. She is a fantastic woman, and an incredible educator. Such a loss to the system to be put out at that point in her life. And she really struggled to find anything after that. She got some more education and became an assistant principle for a while, but it didn't suit her, and then she retired.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/08/17 05:02 PM

I have met many wonderful teachers who teach Catholic school. I made double what the principal did as a new public school teacher, I thought I was getting a raw deal....

Many of the religious staff see their careers as part of their religious devotions. On top of it all they tithe, plus garage sale for chairs and supplies.

amazing people. I know.
Posted By: TC_Manhattan

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/08/17 05:05 PM

Well, let me tell you all, the exact same thing is and has been going on in healthcare for the past twenty+ years.

Take nursing for example. In some lower income areas, when an automobile factory shutters, many of the laid-off employees go on to the nearest community college and, in TWO years can become an RN (registered nurse).

Used to be RN training was 3 years around-the-clock in a hospital-based certificate program. Back 40 years ago, the emphasis was to phase out these 3 year programs and mandate a 4-year Bachelor's degree in nursing as entry level for licensure.

Well, that fell by the wayside. So now, instead of needing 4 years of training/education, all you need is 2! How pray tell does one learn all the conceptual material AND receive adequate clinical exposure to know what on earth one is doing with live human beings? devil

Their retort is that one can complete the other 2 years with an on-line program.
How does one learn how to perform nursing skills from a computer?

Ever wonder why healthcare sux here in the US of A?
Well, maybe it's because we train 'em and staff 'em and treat 'em just like the local Walmart or Mickey D's...

Posted By: TC_Manhattan

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/08/17 05:08 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
I have met many wonderful teachers who teach Catholic school. I made double what the principal did as a new public school teacher, I thought I was getting a raw deal....

Many of the religious staff see their careers as part of their religious devotions. On top of it all they tithe, plus garage sale for chairs and supplies.

amazing people. I know.


I was a product of Catholic schools, and can vouch for every single thing WUS says.
Those nuns are/were awesome. True selfless piety.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/08/17 05:19 PM

Assistant principal. I may almost enjoy that.

"let me see now, Student A. You did WHAT with the WHICH/WHERE and what got stuck, WHEN?????

I find student interactions and foibles highly entertaining. I'd get A#1. SICK of the parents, tho. They (sometimes) can be lie machines for their kids AND they act like lying to protect your kid is "a good thing", -- when you are only screwing them up worse...

Really, you/they are. It is easy to see sometimes how mean, petty kids get the indignant scowl -- mom walks in with the same exact scowl.

also: ask many 20 - 30 somethings still living at home how easy it is to get out our trouble in real life.
Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/08/17 08:20 PM

So if you can become an RN in two years, what does it take to become an LVN? A two-hour seminar? SMH

That said, DD27's college roommate was a nursing student in a 4-year program, and they worked her to the bone. The whole time I knew her, she took a break ONCE in two years. She studied twice as much as DD27, and DD27 was compulsive in her studying. So she was learning a hell of a lot. I hope it's not like you say all over the country.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/09/17 12:06 AM

WUD, I think you would make a great Principal or Assistant Principal.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/11/17 01:55 PM

My sister in law got her nursing degree from a for profit college here in Michigan. 6 months after graduation, they went bankrupt, and her RN degree (license) is now invalid.

1. She owes still owes $60,000 in school debt, at the high interest rate. Betsy DeVos ruled that the students, even the ones 80% done and can't transfer ONE credit to an accredited school, still HAVE to pay back the money. The bankrupt schools do not have to pay back the students nor the Feds.

Currently, she can work at the location she is currently. She can not transfer degree nor credits and they are finding out now, apply for RN positions without current license.

2. Betsy DeVos just appointed (forgot name). This person ran a for profit school that was fined and punished for falsifying placement records FOR YEARS. This person is now in charge of federal educational fraud oversight. Think about that.

C.3. Trump University. (*&($*&^#&*$^#&*$^&*#()*&*(&(*#&$*(&$#(*$7. The only thing I will add is that "hard sale" agents were told to target people with bad credit, because they were prone to making poor financial choices, and a get rich quick scheme would be considered a life line.
I will add that they were actively encouraged to charge the $35,000 tuition to Trump University on credit, that they provided. Even the were fined 25 million dollars, the money has not been restored to borrowers.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/11/17 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
Happens all the time. Private company gets land for free as part of state government deal to entice them to build a factory. Tax breaks for a decade or more. Relief from environmental and safety regulations. And then they hire everyone for minimum wage, except for the jobs they offshore to pay even less.

That is how every pro sports stadium gets built these days. Taxpayers pay for the stadium and team owner gets all the revenue.

Everyone agrees the US needs more investment in infrastructure. No agreement as to whether the government should own the new stuff and provide it to residents free or at cost or whether we should grant concessions to private companies to build the new stuff and let them charge tolls or fees for residents to use them. Any guesses which one triggers higher campaign contributions to politicians?

Welcome to capitalism in the 21st century. Much like capitalism in the 19th century. Turns out that 20th century capitalism as regulated by Progressive-era and New Deal-era reforms was the exception and not the norm.

Not saying the problems in educational policy aren't real. Just saying it isn't the only industry mired in corruption. Power may corrupt. Huge piles of money don't do a bad job of it, either.


HOTI: Does happen all the time. The herring is that for profit companies have to produce a product first, market and sale before they get any $$$. Most businesses run at a loss for years before profitability.
This is unique that not only is the physical plant in many cases given to the charter, but with bottom of the barrel LOW hourly people and a few bits of technology, the school is guaranteed profit the DAY the doors open, thanks so the taxpayers.

There is no "widget" testing, no quality inspections and no accountability. Name ONE company that does not need insurance/fall back plan for failed/unsafe product..... education.

I just saw a new Detroit charter school LONG add. "Private school at public school rates! NO Tuition!!!" << Tag line. There is not ONE minority in the entire film. Not one black, brown nor purple kid in sight. It's stunning. There are about 130 students shown, gleefully learning in the promo, maybe they are hiding the latino kid in the closet or something....< bad attempt at a joke, this is seriously not funny for the city of Detroit charter.

WHO paid title 1 money for years to built that building? Who is supporting it? The local community. Not sure, but I think there may be African Americans, Latinos and stuff in that community....

You tell me now, what they are selling? Sure is not better "skoolin'"
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/12/17 06:57 PM

Well, Good morning, Campers!

Historic Mansion district community yard sale. I'm in HoG hEaVEn. I got inside a few, talked to a few more owners. What dedicated, die hard people.

Best deal? Mirrored etched glass 3 panel room divider - bottom 20" trashed. Cut off the bottom 20", shortened wood backing... look FaBulOUs behind my headboard.
Stamped "Chicago Glass Co. June 12th, 1930 on the back of each panel - beautifully etched designs....omg.

For Sh@tz and giggles I hand plaster/applied Ralph Lauren Gold Patina. 2 coats, 4 scrapings over wall. Brilliant and stunning color.. Looks like Vincent Van Gogh picked the color and a 500 year old Venetian plastered the wall. SO Hollywood. Even the detail board on the bottom and vintage casters I re attached for era. Middle panel still over 52 inches high.

Have no idea value, but I got all 3 mirrors for $70. (free picture frame and moving blankest thrown in) Paid glass cutter $60 - I make stained glass, but 80 year old glass that's beveled I wouldn't even think of cutting. Updated hardware @$25...looks like a million dollars.
I just had a gallon of RL gold leaf patina laying around... as everyone should.

I also got a Shlitz Malt liquor bull head keg tapper. SO much fun....
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/13/17 01:35 AM

Everybody keeps extra gold patina around all the time for projects like these?? Really, it is your innate ability to find a good thing and then restore it to its previous Glory. That's truly a gift! Not everyone can do that.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/19/17 12:22 PM

Because it's a Tuesday, I bequeath to you my 100 year old Chocolate Cake recipe {altered with Ricotta and buttermilk.)
PLUS the ever important mixing instructions.... that no one tells you about.....
-- Yes, pricey cake, but will worth a birthday or holiday event.

If you really want to go crazy, buy the coco and ricotta from the Italian market, but Hershey is really hard to beat.

--------------
Crisco/parchment line/coco dust two round cake pans. (I use 9")

Sift: 2c. sugar, 1 3/4 c. flour, 3/4 c. coco, 1 1/2 tsp. b. powder, 1 1/2 tsp. b. soda and 1 tsp. salt together. Set aside.

**ROOM** temp: 1c. buttermilk, plus 1/2 c. melted, room temp unsalted butter. Set aside.

2 large eggs, 2 tsp. high grade vanilla. (I mix the eggs and vanilla, slightly.). Set aside.

**** Hand stir; dry mix, alternating between buttermilk/butter -then- eggs/vanilla mixture. Stir 2 min. Then FOLD 3/4 c. ricotta into batter.

1 cup boiling water into batter -- { THIN drizzle boiling water into mix, or you will cook your eggs!! } after adding boiling water into batter, the mix will be very thin. Pour into prepared pans, tap gently to level -- bake 350 oven for 30 - 35 min...

Mom
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/19/17 12:26 PM

Sounds yummy! I'm going to have to try this today! Thank you!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/19/17 12:55 PM

Report back to the class. smile smile
The consistency is decadent.
About a 1.5 inch thick slice is about all a person can handle, so it serves quite a bit more.

Even with all that leveling, it does not raise up too high in the middle too much, Usually cake is completely level at cool/set, so the shape requires no trimming.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/19/17 02:01 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Report back to the class. smile smile
The consistency is decadent.
About a 1.5 inch thick slice is about all a person can handle, so it serves quite a bit more.

Even with all that leveling, it does not raise up too high in the middle too much, Usually cake is completely level at cool/set, so the shape requires no trimming.


I want to try this.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/19/17 11:07 PM

Originally Posted By: SmilingWife
Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Report back to the class. smile smile
The consistency is decadent.
About a 1.5 inch thick slice is about all a person can handle, so it serves quite a bit more.

Even with all that leveling, it does not raise up too high in the middle too much, Usually cake is completely level at cool/set, so the shape requires no trimming.


I want to try this.


I'd rather be the test taster. thumbsup. Imagine fork & knife with this imogie
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/22/17 09:45 PM

As a friend of mine said; "box cake mixes taste like sadness".
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 09/25/17 04:51 PM

Things seem pretty quiet around here. I'm taking that as good news from all.

Tonight I am seeing that "Spartan Life Coach" guy, Grannon at the Marriot in town. Crazy I have watched these videos and quoted him often and his fist USA tour - he stops by D twoit.

His last pod cast had a great reference. He speaks of fighting back on your own behalf, doing things your own way, swim against or across the (norm) current. He adds; "You know who goes with the flow? Dead fish."

Anxiety is a warning sign your sub conscious sends your brain. It is not a bad thing, just an alarm. If you ignore that alarm for so long, your subconscious shuts down, aka, depression like feelings.
He contends we live in a society where we have TOO much all out needs our met (for the most of us) like they have never been met before. We are also the most overworked, over media'ed frustrated and depressed population in history. Something is not working for us as a society.....

Go figure. I am hitting another low for some reason. I am trying to take the tasks ahead of me (finish painting outside of house, de clutter, re organize) and putting them into 30 minute tasks. Once I do one a day - I call it all good. Slow but there is progress being made.

-_---_-_----
Found a pewter/crystal chandelier at the Arch Salvage yard on Saturday. Re wired it and hung it into my Art Deco Master Bedroom, looks totally Hollywood.
It is not actually vintage, but still very high end.

>> Once homecoming over I will update the blog. The house has really turned the corner... smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/03/17 03:35 PM

ooops. wrote a big post- update - deleted..

what the heck?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/03/17 05:11 PM

....Homecoming is a disaster. It's like a 10 hour a day job.
for the week. Plus the dance on Saturday. My classroom looks like a bomb went off in here. Paper everywhere.

Still need to do book cover two. At first I was like "YEAH! publisher contacting me! NOW I look at my email and think.."Oh, S#8T,.... the publisher contacting me." facepalm

Soooooo. Last weekend I was a henna drawing witch/wench at the Renaissance Festival. It was the last weekend for Detroit and attendance was beyond ridiculous.

I have officially renamed it the Boob festival, because EVERY female seems to have a corset on and hooters sailing at full mast. Witch = boobs. Queen = boobs. Elf?, Wench? Vampire? = belly in - boobs out. Where do they want henna? One, er, um... TWO guesses....


I was supposed to be a step in witch, as opposed to a Step-in Wolf, I imagine, but my natural born nature came forward and I was promoted the first day to a full time witch.

These people are true American Gypsies, many travel from festival to festival. living out of tents, campers and cars. They make most of what they sell. "After hours" last night of Fest, I had a Thai dinner {for campers only} behind the jousting area. It was absolutely delicious all you can eat - "whatever that was" - happy chattering of all the performers, with riches filled pockets from a beautiful day, and it truly was like sitting in the middle of a TV show.

My boss "Bevin" a 30 year veteran, and former performing Troll, now a pirate, had his bird "Susan" hopping all over the table and eating off his plate - not another person flinched.....

Ask and ye shall receive, because with DD21's "Parent Direct" loans, I really needed to make some extra bank. I pocketed $50/hour plus tips.
Apparently, I'm a very good witch.

I was asked to come back on as full witching staff next year, so I committed to the seven weekend stint. Yes, a lot of extra effort, late summer/fall - but could not ask for better cash, at a more interesting job.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/03/17 05:31 PM

You found people I could easily call my "tribe" WUD.

If I had the time. <sigh>
Posted By: MaidUpName

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/03/17 07:26 PM

That sounds epic!

Wish I wasn't so far away - I've always been known in my family as the witch, my sister gave me my broom for Christmas many years ago lol
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/03/17 11:02 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BjUV-byB8ls
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/04/17 04:22 AM

Oh, WUD! Love your posts and the way you write!! You lead an exciting life everywhere you go.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/09/17 01:50 PM

So, we took our cube/pyramid/dodecahedron shapes and made a 3D sculpture. To create implied form, we drew shapes and spent today blocking out windows so we could use candles to simplify and unify the light our projects.

It took 3 "oaths" of not burning our school down, 20 minutes to distribute candles and 5 minutes of general mayhem before we settled down.

Knock at the door..art kid slowly creeks door open..."Welcome to our new religion...." Whoever it was just left.

Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/09/17 06:44 PM

Use fresh pie pumpkin (smooth, round, smaller with brown spots) split and roast in oven like squash. When tender, scoop out/mash 2 cups. Fridge mashed innards up to a few days. House smells wonderful.

I say it has a better flavor than canned.. some can't tell.


Use only fresh (grated from nut) Nutmeg. ever. Grate from the bark or use fresh packed cinnamon. Cloves are pretty strong, canned is ok. Ginger can be fresh, but minced and cut way back instead of cloves.

the rest is history.... recipes everywhere....

Bake until slightly underdone and serve that day or next (refrigerated will shrink away from crust......)

and of course, fresh heavy whipping cream with a hint of grated nutmeg.....
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/09/17 06:51 PM

And don't be afraid of the nutmeg... it's amazing!
Posted By: MaidUpName

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/09/17 07:21 PM

Pie pumpkin might be my problem, the only guys we get here are the big watery orange ones for carving.

I'll hunt but may have to resort to tinned.

All the other spices - nom nom nom
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/10/17 11:39 AM

A wonderful second place {and in some Southern households first place} is a Sweet Potato pie. Many times brown sugar is added to this one.

Very similar texture, but even a bit sweeter than p. pie.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/16/17 01:37 PM

As to no hijack another thread:

Believer Quote:
"I can't complain because I raised one lazy son. He used to pull the old "what do you need me to do" comeback. I remember when he was helping me get the house ready to sell. I was trying to get the yard fixed up. So, trim the bushes while I'm pulling weeds. Then he asks, trim them with what, where is it, trim this bush, this one, this, one? Then he lets all of the trimmings fall on the ground and after I point out each and every bush, I need to ask him to put the refuse in the green waste. It's exhausting, so he taught me not to ask for help."

This is covert and passive but extremely affective way to manipulate the "higher work standard" person in a relationship to do it ALL.
I lived with a dude for 30 years who did this. I did not recognize it until year 24 or so.

Besides lazy, is there a term for this type of interaction? Even at work dealing with teenagers who have to clean up after themselves I find this a daily chore.


Edit to add: My xh who would put in minimal/no effort, wanted heaps of praise and adulation for this work he did. Not kidding, he'd be riding the mower, I'm sweeping, raking hauling dirt and cleaning -- he'd want me to "appreciate him more" - as I stood there filthy, dripping with sweat... Looking back, he never said "Wow! look at the amount of work you did!" at best, he'd say "looks good" - but not really appreciate the 14 hours I spent re sealing the porch... impatient

New standard. If I get into another relationship, I'm going to look for someone who at least acknowledges my work. I'll try not to "pick me dance" by exhausting myself looking for that little "looks ok"

If I dared say, "But you left the debris/trimmings all over the place." He'd have a "THIS is why I don't do anything for you! It's never good enough!" Yipes, it just all fell together.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/16/17 01:54 PM

OMG YES! Wud. And the WAYS they can find to get you to do it all. I posted on the other thread. Mine is so SLOW and disorganized. He won't do anything my way. So doing any job with him is just not worth it to me. It just makes it take longer, and makes me work HARDER.

And YES YES YES to the whole "expects a goddamn ticker tape parade!" for doing the tiniest thing. But barely acknowledges anything you do... Good lord it's infuriating...

How do we get involved with these jerks???
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/16/17 03:34 PM

I'm Polish. Here's a typical growing up holiday. Women clean, cook, wait on the men hand and foot, while men sit an watch TV, calling out drink/snack orders.

Dinner may have been done, but not served until halftime or game over.

I never even considered this unusual....

P.S. all the women in my household worked outside the home, too.
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/16/17 05:02 PM

I think this started back when folks had to work night and day to provide for basic needs. And then just stayed to modern times. I can see how I play into this because DH has arthritis and is in general supposed to stay off his feet so I do not mind doing what I can and letting the rest slide until it is like what Kayla said on SW thread my lizard sees like a dead roach last week and I lose all reason and I am like oh HAIL no all hands on deck! And then I need his hands too and where are they and I am so angry I cannot look at him for doing this to me.

You all are awesome thanks for always helping make sense of this stuff.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/17/17 12:07 AM

Originally Posted By: Miranda
OMG YES! Wud. And the WAYS they can find to get you to do it all. I posted on the other thread. Mine is so SLOW and disorganized. He won't do anything my way. So doing any job with him is just not worth it to me. It just makes it take longer, and makes me work HARDER.

And YES YES YES to the whole "expects a goddamn ticker tape parade!" for doing the tiniest thing. But barely acknowledges anything you do... Good lord it's infuriating...

How do we get involved with these jerks???


Me too. I was the one working like a dog while STBX sat on the couch watching TV and chatting with his GF even though I was sick, or just had surgery, or had a broken leg, or was on bed rest, cancer, etc. Nothing I did was ever good enough. But if he watched his own kids for 20 minutes, he expected me to extol his amazing virtues for the next 3 months!!!!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/17/17 12:47 PM

Well, I have to take my part of this, I am high energy and I really LIKE to take care of things.... betcha nobody knew. So, if xh chose to weasel out of domestic things, that's probably on me. He took the weasel to a high art form, tho. Rather disgusting.

I remember driving home from work, first job, thinking... Ok, need tomatoes and bread for dinner, pick up kid A, drive to cleaners, fuel up, pick up curtains- get home, have it all done by 5:30. ON the way, with all the kids, we'd sing made up songs, make up nick names for objects (the van became "vannyhose") and generally had a wonderful life.


And I thrived on getting even more done by 5:30. Yes, I did not slow down and smell the flowers enough..but that was my choice.

I really should have been a logistics engineer.

Note: I never understood women who b*&(*^ non stop about "kid detail". Strangely, on the other hand, I REALLY don't understand the moms who cling to kids who are ready to move on to college. Sometimes exact same moms... (Aren't they excited to see how they do? Who they marry? Kids they will have? Jobs/hobbies??) Full throttle to the grave, people, want to skid under the holy gates, with a diet coke in my hand saying "WHAT a ride!"
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/17/17 01:07 PM

I'm just like you, Wud. I am a high energy giver by nature. I'm a natural born caretaker, and efficiency is in my very DNA.

But it honestly never even occurred to me that someone would try take advantage of that in such a heinous way! I mean my dad was a go getter! He worked multiple jobs almost all my life, took care of the yard, the cars, fixed things all over the house, and for other people in the neighborhood, and still did housecleaning too! My mom worked outside the home, made home cooked meals, packed my dad's lunch, baked every Sunday (so he would have dessert in that packed lunch that wasn't crap bought in a store!) kept a garden, canned and froze the bounty and did the lion's share of the housework, did all the banking and bill paying, etc.

I didn't realize that things could get SO out of balance. And yes I know how stupid that sounds.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/17/17 02:57 PM

Frog in pot of boiling water. If the temperature is raised slowly, the frogs don't notice the danger until it is too late.
(What sicko thought up that test? Did they really need to do that?)

Once something is given away, it is very common for the recipient to not appreciate the effort over time.

Somehow in my marriage, I don't know when, this got extremely upside down, with xh claiming WE didn't appreciate HIM enough for all he did around the house.

While the 3 yards of driveway gravel I paid for/had delivered sat in a pile by the driveway for years. I had to shovel/even it out when I was forced to sell the house. It was heavy and I have *(&&* wrists, so I shouldn't have shoveled it. BUT I did.

He left things out for EVER. I mean, I left a certain item, say his fly fishing boots, in the walkway of the garage, they would be there fifteen months later.....it became a science experiment.

We tried in family counseling to rectify this imballance. It was hilarious how he sought out loopholes {we had to do 30 minutes a day general chore pick up - if everyone did, the house was immaculate. He would stroll in after riding the mower and announce "I JUST DID MY 3 HOURS FOR THE WEEK!"} while I cooked, cleaned, vacuumed, shopped and did my 30 minutes ALSO... lol -- I can actually laugh about that, now.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/17/17 03:36 PM

Yes, it's the same for me, and worse. I have his things all OVER the place. And god help me if I move them, because world war III will start when he can't FIND something. And it's all my fault because WHERE did I PUT IT!!!

So now I cannot touch anything to move it from where ever he drops it, lest I get blamed when he cannot find something later!

Never mind the fact that I'm the QUEEN of finding lost things. Always have been. My co-workers tease me and say it's my superpower. Finding things, fixing things, figuring things out. All of that.

But I live in ever increasing hoarder like decay because he leaves crap EVERYWHERE and I can't move it! My kitchen table?? Covered in junk. My entire living room, stuff everywhere, you can't sit on the furniture, you CAN walk in there, the floor is clear, but there's photography equipment on all the furniture, and there's boxes in the corner and whatever. One spare bedroom is totally full of junk, you can barely walk through. My beautiful 4 season room? Full of biking and camping crap. Garage? Full of stuff, can't fit my car in it (and it's a 2.5 car garage and we have a second 1 car shed! that's totally FULL!)

This is NOT what I signed up for...

And yeah, he thinks he has done "his share" if he rides the mower around for an hour on Saturday. I'm thinking "I spend an hour EVERY night, cooking dinner and doing dishes AFTER work! Plus laundry every weekend, bathroom cleaning, etc, how are we even???" And mowing only goes from April until October, so he's off 5 whole MONTHS!! And don't tell me he has to do snow, because he RARELY ever does.
Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/17/17 04:44 PM

Originally Posted By: NewEveryDay
I think this started back when folks had to work night and day to provide for basic needs. And then just stayed to modern times. I can see how I play into this because DH has arthritis and is in general supposed to stay off his feet so I do not mind doing what I can and letting the rest slide until it is like what Kayla said on SW thread my lizard sees like a dead roach last week and I lose all reason and I am like oh HAIL no all hands on deck! And then I need his hands too and where are they and I am so angry I cannot look at him for doing this to me.

You all are awesome thanks for always helping make sense of this stuff.
You can always place the basket of laundry next to him on the couch and say 'here, fold these.' And if he balks, say 'ok, which of the five other things I'm doing in the next hour will you take care of then?'
Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/17/17 04:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Miranda
So now I cannot touch anything to move it from where ever he drops it, lest I get blamed when he cannot find something later!
Well, you know that's not true, right? I was in the same boat, don't dare move anything lest he chew me out for him not being able to find it. And I was getting chewed out at least once a week for something I touched. Continued for 35 years.

Until I finally realized, so what? It's MY house too and I have every right to have a house I can stand to live in.

That's one of the few things I CAN do now to stand up for myself. Now, he knows WHICH areas of the house he can leave stuff at that I won't touch (his one kitchen counter [out of 4], the formal dining room table, the top of his side table, the top of his bedroom side table). Anything else downstairs is fair game. And he knows by now that if he DID leave something in anyplace else, I WILL move it to the dining room table. Now he knows to look there. And he hasn't given me that sh*t ever since I started doing it.

I spent a lot of time saying 'well, you shouldn't have left it where you knew I was going to clean up. The X table is your spot. The rest is off limits and things WILL get removed.'

It's all up to you, Miranda. smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/17/17 04:55 PM

I know it's not funny, but hehehehehehehehehehe.

The extent of self delusion that someone can go through to avoid work (I'd say "You will spend 2 hours trying to get out of a 30 minute task!" OMG.)
Sad part, it was very true.

He once told the counselor that "He was really a clean person, so he shouldn't have to clean anything around the house." Yup, WuD? has to do all the cleaning for 2 kids AND him.
He thought that was perfectly reasonable. I was just being stupid for not seeing this too - because he worked.....

At least the counselor choked on her coffee when he said that. She did ask him how a father of two kids can claim to have no responsibility for taking care of them? At all?!?!
He just starred at her, blinking....
If SHE balked, he would listen, if I balked, I was just being unreasonable.

If I tried to insist, or get angry THEN I was blamed as the "reason" things were left undone. (Hey buddy, your desk at work got a write up, can't be me doing that, too?)

I see the old struggle/dynamic clearer now. I was such a suck up. I spackeled while he got away with murder, then he would demand massive hinny kissing for what should have been considered everyday chores. I never got props. He did say "thank you" when I served him dinner. That was supposed to be my reward and satisfy me for all the work going into it...

>> he had a million of 'em.

He was going to forever play the victim card, I was forever going to play the "mommy/cop" to his antics. Now I play the same game (kind of) with daughter 21.

P.S. got my desk completely cleaned, all Homecoming &$^*#&$^ put away/recycled. Got my scanner, 2 IMacs, document scanner, projector and 2 student stations going. All I have to do is get the 3D printer going. AND my new chair....

--- very clean...high tech - LOVING IT. Looking at buying new Ipad Pros for students to draw on. It is going to be very, very sweet! Not everyone can have one, but one table at a time can explore, and that can be traded on and off.

Woo hoo. Starting to get into my prime. Always did things the cheap way. Now I got a bit of $$$$ to buy technology to upgrade.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/17/17 08:17 PM

Yeah Cat at some point I will stand up and say "hail no, I LIVE here and I'm done with this shinola" But now is not that time. Now I'm going to school and that's primary.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/17/17 08:54 PM

I do think a substantial mismatch on neat / messy is one of those mismatches that is very difficult to overcome. Like ambition: if a person has a high need for their spouse to be ambitious and the spouse is not particularly driven to achieve professionally, very hard for the couple to both be satisfied. Or like sex: the low drive partner may not be able to articulate why they are rarely motivated to have sex but if that is how they feel, it may not be possible for the high drive partner to get the low drive partner to meet them halfway.

For some of us, doing household chores creates enormous mental blockage that requires enormous mental effort to overcome. I don't know why that is, but it is real. It is every bit as real as low drive people who find it very difficult to motivate themselves to have sex, or people who find it very difficult to go to the gym regularly. It is difficult and requires huge effort that may be hard for a less "blocked" person to fathom.

At this point, I would tell someone with a high sex drive that if they find themselves with a low drive person, express once how important it is to you for them to "step up their game", make an effort to be as attractive as possible, make an effort to have sex be as good for your partner as possible, and if after 3 - 6 months there is little or no change, then call off the wedding or file for divorce. Same for these other mismatches. If you married a person who finds it hard to motivate to get chores done, is always procrastinating or making excuses, then expect that you will do most or all of the household chores for the rest of your marriage. If that does not appeal to the neater or more chore-motivated person, then save yourself years of annoyance and file for divorce today. It hardly ever changes significantly.

I guess the idea is that people change either right away, or on pain of divorce. So if your partner doesn't change right away, assume they never will. And they certainly won't unless they perceive that you are willing to dump them over it. If you are not willing to dump them over it, expect they will never change. They might. But you shouldn't expect it.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/17/17 08:55 PM

Hold,

I'm NOT neat. Not by ANY stretch.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/18/17 12:46 PM

HOTI:

Didn't someone have a analogy about partners and types of birds?

Even very successful marriages are made out of complete opposites, it is the individual's commitment to making it work that is the key. Once someone has taken for granted or stopped "forgiving" annoying habits - the healthy relationship is over.

If you look hard enough, you can find fault in anyone and anything. I'm not saying expressing your desires is pointless, HOPEFULLY, telling your partner about something you find lacking SHOULD encourage them to take steps to change aforementioned behavior.
but when you come to expect/demand another to change for you (I actually got the "You are going to change if you like it or NOT." line - there is no better way to guarantee that the other will not hear you.

P.S. If the demand for change is coming from someone who can not self reflect/kind of delusional, the demands for change are crazy. I was asked to DO MORE and appreciate him MORE.

I was sleeping about 6 hours a night, did 90% housework, 100% kid shuffeling, provided healthcare, food and clothes and entertainment for the family for decades -- he worked ONE (albeit hard/long hour) job.

How the *(&%^ could I have done more?


I'm like Popeye, I 'yam what I 'yam. So was xh. I try to take people on that - present in the moment - level, giving a lot of space for what I consider annoying habits. For decades this worked for me (us) - then it did not.
>shrug<



Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/18/17 12:50 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?

How the *(&%^ could I have done more?




The tough realization here is that you could not have done more. Nothing was ever going to be "enough" for your XH to fill up the emptiness inside him.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/18/17 12:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Blair
Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?

How the *(&%^ could I have done more?




The tough realization here is that you could not have done more. Nothing was ever going to be "enough" for your XH to fill up the emptiness inside him.


THIS! This is god's honest truth. And I've actually started SAYING that to my husband. I tell him to his face that no one could ever be enough, do enough, love him enough. He has to hear and know that on some level.

Because I'm like Wud in a lot of ways, sleeping so little, doing so much, and my husband is doing next to nothing. But still he wants MOAR MOAR MOAR. And expects to be praised and appreciated, etc. Exactly the same kind of delusional shinola that Wud reports.

so when he is bitterly complaining that he doesn't get enough appreciation, I point out all the appreciation I DO show, then say "this is a problem inside YOU, no one could EVER make you feel appreciated enough, because you've got a hole inside you."

When he's giving me the sad sack, 'nobody loves me' routine, I give him the same kind of speech "You've got something wrong inside, no one else can fix that"

And so forth.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/18/17 01:55 PM

Why should you have to do MORE? The point is that you shouldn't.

My point is not that the neat person needs to do more. My point is that there is a limit to how much neater you can expect a messy person to become, and that you will see where their limit is fairly early in the process of arguing about it. So if you have been arguing about what a messy pig they are for 3 to 6 months, whatever improvement you have seen (and it might be zero) is probably as much improvement as you are ever going to se unless and until you file for divorce. So if, after 3 to 6 months, you are still unhappy with their lack of assistance with chores, don't live in denial and fantasize that if you just keep asking they will eventually help more. Accept that they are never going to help more. Because they probably won't.

That doesn't mean you are obliged to clean up their messes. It means that if you don't want to spend the rest of your life cleaning up their messes, either learn to live in a messy house or learn to live without them.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/18/17 02:13 PM

It means, sadly, that pick me dancing is as pointless as it is exhausting.

I have said before, I was never going to be enough, do enough or be able to change enough because the goalposts were forever going to move.

Like a Chuck Close painting, I could not see the problem from such an up close vantage point. You can only see the image from a distance.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/18/17 02:17 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
It means, sadly, that pick me dancing is as pointless as it is exhausting.

I have said before, I was never going to be enough, do enough or be able to change enough because the goalposts were forever going to move.

Like a Chuck Close painting, I could not see the problem from such an up close vantage point. You can only see the image from a distance.


This is also very true. My therapist worked hard with me to enable me to get emotional distance and detachment from my husband. Without it I could have NEVER seen what was going on.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/23/17 02:28 AM

Great weekend weather. Had no excuse to delay, so I made myself finish painting the last side of the house. I can't lift my arms (all hand brush/no roller -two coats) about 15 hours up and down ladders- the house is finished .
My kids think I'm crazy... I'm starting to agree. This is not the work olympics.

Soon I will be able to settle down and read and paint pictures again. I think I will miss the hunt for bargains. $75/gallon Duration paint. I got 20 gallons on CL/altered the color. Painted entire house for $340- (with paint materials added). Plus, had 10 gallons left over- gave to a friend for her house she just bought. She loves the color.

One of my besties visited, can't believe the total transportation of space. She says house has different vibe. I had to post my humble brag on FB, then I just started thinking about all the projects this year. New Bathroom, porch floor, wireless thermostat, Samsung top end washer and dryer, new exterior light, exterior house paint, Master bedroom vintage glass/gold patina/chandelier, major tree trim, -it was leaning on wires and house. Plus the goofy detail work (slider door wheels..).
I did all of it for under $4,700. A bathroom would be that much. Pretty impressed with that amount of work for that $$$. I still have supplies for a copper awning I want to build already on site.
I wish I could get a snack, but my legs just won't work (up and down ladder for hours,).
We'd to get back to work so I can relax.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/23/17 02:57 AM

You are awesome WUD!
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/23/17 11:15 AM

I was feeling pretty good about painting my dining room and working on a removal and reinstall of some prior electrical work. But you managed to paint an entire house??? I'm speechless!!! You are simply amazing!
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/23/17 11:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Blair
I was feeling pretty good about painting my dining room and working on a removal and reinstall of some prior electrical work. But you managed to paint an entire house??? I'm speechless!!! You are simply amazing!


I know right! I have hired a teenager to come help me clean my new windows today and I am excited about that. But small potatoes compared tomWUD!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/23/17 12:26 PM

I started the house in September. Because of pitch of dormer roof, I had to learn about roof jacks and how to install them and not die doing so.

I bought $1,350 worth of Sherwin Willliams Duration Satin paint (leftover from an Apartment complex job.) Mixed a great color -- for $180/cash total. Add $76 for white trim paint and $50 - $80 for "stuff", I borrowed the other items job- $350- ish complete. (I sold the roof jacks (+15) the day after I was done using them - dangerous buggers.)

Now my friend is INSISTING she pay me for the paint. She freaked when she found out it sells for $380 per 5 gal bucket at her local store.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/23/17 12:51 PM

Originally Posted By: SmilingWife
Originally Posted By: Blair
I was feeling pretty good about painting my dining room and working on a removal and reinstall of some prior electrical work. But you managed to paint an entire house??? I'm speechless!!! You are simply amazing!


I know right! I have hired a teenager to come help me clean my new windows today and I am excited about that. But small potatoes compared tomWUD!

HA! I'm hiring students over, too.
I'm having two high school students, "the twins" come over this week to help rake leaves/haul yard stuff around.(kind of dark haired goth girls who STUNNINGLY remind me of the twins from the Shinning.) I shall pay them to stand there and stare over the fence at the neighbor I really don't like. I suspect he is poisoning neighborhood cats.)
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/23/17 01:48 PM

I know, I was feeling pretty good about planting about 1/6 of an acre of grass (tilling, spreading seed, raking in, and spreading hay over it) doing grocery shopping (8 stores, EIGHT stores!!!) 5 loads of laundry, two quizzes with 100% scores, and one ridiculously long microbiology homework (NINE pages of diagnostics, who DOES that students?!) I can barely move today. Of course it's cold and raining, not a good combination for my Fibro at all.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/23/17 04:54 PM

Oh, boy. Hope you can cut back on the "to do" list and take it a bit easy and enjoy your success on the mid terms.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/23/17 05:06 PM

They took it a little easy on us the first week after midterms. But it's back to full bore now. And I got lazy as hell there on that one week where they backed off on us.

Ah well, it is what it is. Back at it hard core now! Hammering away at it. Unfortunately work is getting weirdly busy as well, which is making things difficult. And the weather is beating me up.

I hope you're able to really enjoy your "nest" over the winter. You've feathered it spectacularly!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/23/17 06:28 PM

I am going to update the house blog with all the 2017 additions.

Really trying to keep the cost invested and the potentially home value increase in line. I think I have knocked it out of the park so far. I wonder how much it would go at another appraisal. It was at $250,000 (but after that I re wired, painted, porch reno/ bathroom reno and had the back yard fence problem fixed (there was a weird fence cutting off 25% of the yard. I re routed to the property line - looks WAY better.

Blog city!

I have about a zillion pictures on my phone, it is really a big difference. Girl power. >wa ha<
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/24/17 03:51 AM

I would love to see photos! smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/31/17 12:26 PM

Yikes.
The holidays.

This is the absolute worst time of the year for me, post bomb drop and divorce. EVERYTHING around our family was celebrated in the next 3 months.

I am kind of shocked to realize this will be my 4th year through the combine. I feel pretty steady on my feet, but I still dread the memories.
>sigh.

Feeling very accomplished on the home front REALLY liking the way the entire place is turning out. Finished exterior painting. Had students over to help "winterize" my house and organize basement.

I actually found beautiful canvass fabric on sale - I'm slipcovering a beautiful chair I found on craigslist. I found a vintage looking French "postage stamp/script/stamp" design that looks Mah-va-lous in the room. If I can carry this off, I will have the EXACT type of chair I wanted.. That chair/otto in that fabric.

The completed ottoman looks amazing, with box pleats and piping....if I do say so myself - dance(MAN! I wish I would have paid more attention in the 7th grade to Ms. Abbey's home ec class!) read

Slowly but surely putting my attention to the design of the recliner part now... wish me luck!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/31/17 12:30 PM

hehehehe. Teaching about Van Gogh and Jean- Michel Basquait.

First, must say the former's name like it should sound; "BAz-quA" - THEN they must say it like they are from Michigan; "BBBAAAZZZZ-QUUUAAAAAhHhHh-TTTT!" like a duck.

Oh, teacher humor.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/31/17 12:41 PM

Way to go on the slipcover! I don't think I would be able to do that... Unless I take it to the great upholstery shop that I know about and adore.... smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/31/17 02:02 PM

Isn't reupholstering almost as expensive as buying quality brand new?
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 10/31/17 09:30 PM

Sometimes it is. But if you have a great chair, and it just needs some updating, it's nice to keep the good bones and just have it reupholstered.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/01/17 02:17 PM

Yeah, but it gets down to tying in the new springs, new padding, muslin cover and such that adds the $$$. At least with this slipcover I can take it off and warsh it.
That reminds me to make an extra pair of arm rest covers - and a second seat cushion cover -- while I'm at it.

WuD?
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/02/17 02:58 AM

You will need an extra set of arm covers. Good idea.

I wish I was good at slipcovering things. I would make slipcovers if I could. (I have tried before and they did not turn out well.) You are so handy at everything! And I mean absolutely everything!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/02/17 03:03 PM

Google knows how to do absolutely everything. My job is to find and filter out all the "yahoos" and find instructions that are concise and correct.

Absolutely everything you want to know is oneline, somewhere. It's absolutely stunning. How do people NOT check stuff out? On a daily basis, I find, on average, one to four items that need to be checked on at night. I'm watching you.... people... aaaaaalways checking on stuff.


Even though had I paid better attention to Ms. Abbey in the 7th grade home Ec., my life would be easier now.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/02/17 03:25 PM

Yeah, people think I know everything. Truthfully, I know how to research and I know how to learn. And I do both lightning fast
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/02/17 05:26 PM

I can learn, but not lighting fast. AH, electricity again. My old nemesis.

Example. My big, expensive leather bellows calf massager (I have only 2/3 Achilles tendon on the right leg - feels JUST GREAT some days! My two different foot/leg massagers help me move on some days! ) was encroached upon by my smelly, smelly dog, who loves wires.
Chomp, chomp, chomp.
I hope she got zapped. Rat fink dog.

After sitting in the basement for months, I decided to replace the cord. Thinking I needed wire and plug, I could only find 16 gauge wire at HD. It was way larger than current cord.

I also did not want to open up entire machine not an easy access to the power switch inside the side and I did not want obvious splice on cord. The most obvious sign of a jenky repair.

youtube, video, article, cord purchase and return and days later....

Nice old guy at Home Depot says "Why change out the entire cord/plug? Can't you just replace the plug? Since doggie left a good 5 or 6 feet of cord. >derp, derp derp and duh. Sometimes good advice is worth hours of research....

$1.90 new plug. three minute fix. Set this one up under my desk at school, so on my prep I can use it. I can only sit down here at work, I swear.

Duh and damnation. All that research, and it took a simple question to change the thinking about fixing it.....
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/08/17 07:33 PM

Most excellent day.
IF YOU have the opportunity to see "Loving Vincent" in a theatre - not on a small screen, I highly recommend you do.

It has fantastic paintings ( square footage could cover London AND Manhattan with the 69,000 paintings - good story, well researched and acted and told well.

Took 60+ to see it at a 1928 theatre at the University of Michigan. Beautiful fall day, happy kids - I thought they may get bored midway... it's not "Guardians of the Galaxy", you know - but everyone hung on to the last few feet of film. I did not have one report that they didn't like it -
they all have theories about what happened, now.

Still not the same happy, clueless person I once was - I attended Michigan first degree - drove past first marital home- but I'm slowly better, and I have put service to other people as a higher priority. My kids think I'm a mess, but my students still believe my "hype". grin crazy

It was just a lovely day.

Posted By: MaidUpName

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/08/17 08:12 PM

That's so lovely to read WUD.

Time does dim the pain somewhat - I too am having more good days than not good days and for that I am grateful.

MUN
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/09/17 12:39 AM

Sounds like a great day full of energetic and inquisitive young people! smile
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/09/17 01:01 AM

Glad you had a satisfying day. You deserve many more.
Posted By: Orchid2

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/10/17 10:17 AM

Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
Glad you had a satisfying day. You deserve many more.


thumbsup
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/13/17 07:00 PM

Soooooooo. Sewing fabric cover for chair -- washing machine doing the Hokey pokey in the basement. 90 year old floor not very level, machine turns itself off "uneven load". All that technology -- still have this issue. Sick of releveling legs - to have it wiggle out of place...

I'd say Elvis Presley's ghost has possessed that machine - it dances like it's Saturday night . all. the. time., but I don't believe in ghosts.

Sooooo. Pedestal bases $300 - feeling like I. just. don't. care at the moment - I was going to simply order them... but the 1926 basement ceiling is only 7ft , the electrical box over the dryer is only about 13 inches higher....
the stands are 14.5 inches tall --- {what, did anyone think this was going to be easy?) aaaarrrrrgggghhhh.

Off to pintrist I go. Found plans for base, making two bases instead of one large one. I am just not strong enough to move one huge one. I was really against using 2 x 4's - clunky, but the other builders used them, because it is going under huge machines I guess that's probably a good plan... substituted 2x2'a for mid support, though.....


Cue dragging it all into basement.

All I had to buy was one extra 2 x 4 and a pound of construction screws. The self pep talk took some effort, though. {WuD? !! WuD? ! -- BUT, but you bought all those tools, WuD?, to make stuff like this! You have the supplies, already! It will be FUN! You will see! Blog about it later in a huge humble brag!)

Miter Saw, Bosh screw driver, table saw and my absolute favorite - nailer gun. On hand enough caulk, nailer brads -- ah, just get to work already.....

It made me depressed to have to drop everything and build, but poor Elvis needs to calm the heck down. Total cost to me so far? $17.36. I have enough calcium carbonate and eggshell finish to make chalk paint for today.....

Scrap an entire day - and I have two double trimmed out bases, correct height. My miter saw skills are improving on trim.

Now I worry about holders for the feet of the machines -{what happens if Elvis hops off the new base????}

Samsung company issue feet guides/clips for pedestals are $120 for 8 - that's a BIG nope. Anti fatigue vibration rubber squares (inch thick that I will drill press/inset holes to secure the feet in = $15.00/8 shipped.) ha!

Do other people think like this?





Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/13/17 07:33 PM

Yes. other some other people DO think like this!

However, some of us talk ourselves into much simpler solutions, or go to the store and talk to people who talk us into simpler ones!

We wound up buying this THICK as HELL rubber mat (it's weirdly cushiony, but not cushiony) I don't know what the F it is exactly. It allows Elvis to shimmy and shake, but keeps his feet firmly in place! AND it makes him QUIET to boot...

Dude at our local Home Depot steered us to it, when we were talking about trying to build a solution. But whining about it because I'm SHORT. And if you raise up my washer, I can't REACH THE BOTTOM! (true story..I can barely reach the bottom of it now!)

But yeah, we build weird shinola, or make funny stuff, or re-do things. ALL the time!
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/13/17 08:06 PM

Wud lol I get ideas like that too but on a smaller scale. But I am so impressed with all you do! I sold my car last week I counted that as a diy victory. It is true no one cares about your stuff like you will. But I get a handyman for most of the kind of stuff you describe. Actually we have a woman painter who thinks of this kind of stuff for us. But her English is limited and so is my Spanish so our adventures are limited by what we can explain through my DH translator.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/13/17 10:26 PM

I love doing trim! So much that I have two mitre saws! smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/14/17 11:44 AM

I like the thick pad idea, my new front loader set was made to be up on a base, to get the wet laundry out of the back of the tub is like reaching down a rat hole.
So I will gladly take the extra foot in height!

Although I just put his together with 2 x 4, I made it look like inset shiplap with the wains. Amazing what a bit of trim and caulk can hide. cut the second top - will attach after painting inside of stand.

Plus I used up a pile of leftovers. With rubber "foot holders", I'm still under $33. That's the price of just two Samsung foot cleats..
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/14/17 11:51 AM

Miranda: The challenges of being short! grin - or in my case, having a short basement.

NED: It IS a big deal to sell a car or house yourself. We have been conditioned and cautioned OUT of selling large items. I saved around $30,000 alone in commission selling my marital home myself. When I REALLY started believing in my own ability to make silk purses out of sows ear...

(In part that commission is the only reason I got the opportunity to buy Graceland.)

Blair, next summer, you should come for a few days. Going to add crown molding the entire first floor, I think. grin #crownmoldingpalooza. I can't believe the difference it adds to even a small bathroom.

_______________________________________________

Since the washer stands has sparked a "git er dun!" attitude, I decided to try to finish my hallway tree for the front porch. I simplified the bench to one solid sheet, Primed and painted it peacock blue, (1920's) but the pine just looks yucky.

So it was sitting there waiting for an idea to come by. Using canvas I transferred a fan tail 1920's design (peacock blue/black detail) until my eyes crossed. I even conned good _always 2 days ahead!_ students to help transfer pattern 100+ times on the grid!
bennies of teaching advanced art.....

Sand it down, seal - going to upholster the pine seat. This should look pretty good. Reclaimed pocket door as back, white bench with storage on bottom, patterned seat and crazy vintage coat hooks along the top for coats and stuff..... >sigh. It will all get done sometime.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/17/17 02:01 PM

Another day, another freak out.

Stayed home. Not feeling well a few days, just wanted to sleep in and drink coffee and be crabby at home...set out lessons/called off.
8 am next day I hear crying coming from upstairs...

DD21 had an altercation with 4" tall curb. Twisted ankle badly. Tried to stand on it next day. OFF to University hospital we ride. THANK GAWD for Obamacare rules, I can't even imagine any 21 year old without health insurance.

Big 'ole boot/crutches later... very angry kid. Campus has long arsed walks. Get her home, now nauseous, complaining. crabby kid.
Try to set her up on couch "GO Away! I'm not picking my head up!" Try to feel her "GO Away! I'm sick" Do you want a pain med? {well, you get gist.}
Sister at hospital for appointment, stops by ER - helps with grump mc grump.
Sister and I go to Sears to pay off her new washing machine set
I financed/bought. Pick kid up fuzzy socks.
DD21 calls my phone; "WHEN are you coming home? Ever? I'm STARVING! The dog (7o lbs) just stepped on my foot! owowowowowowowowowow..."

She went to 12 from 21 in a few hours...
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/18/17 04:13 AM

Sorry to hear DD lost with the curb. Did you mean she went from 21 to 12? I hope she gets better fast. Maybe try one of those scooters so she can get around more easily.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/20/17 01:28 PM

Yes, I was dyslexic typing. She has hurt this ankle before, but THIS amount of pain is a new kind of ouch. She will have a follow up in a few days, and then I'm assuming if it is still causing her such pain - they will do a more detailed scan.

With the three month handicapped parking pass, she should be able to get at least 1/2 way closer to the classrooms. Really, UM Dearborn is set up really weird.

Cooked my first Holiday meal Sunday. That Riesling brined fresh turkey is always amazing. yum.
I think cleaning/organizing the house is more work than the food.

I free lanced the deviled eggs:
Boil jumbo eggs, separate. Crisp 4 strips bacon, save drippings. Mince 1/3 c.onion, sautť in drippings.
Yokes, onion, {slight}tsp fat. Mayo/dry mustard/yellow mustard
Mix;
Fill eggs, crumble bacon on top. Old Bay Seasoning on top. (I forgo the salt and white pepper for the Old Bay)
- really takes on a new step. Almost as good as the prosciutto eggs.

Posted By: Orchid2

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/22/17 10:30 AM

Drunk n smokin' turkey.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/22/17 12:41 PM

Yes. Brined turkey is in my opinion the best. -hi!

Yipes. DD21 took off the boot yesterday. She has two dark bruises running up either side of her Achilles tendon from her heel to her calf. Strange. Today is a follow up with an Ortho.
I certainly hope there is no serious damage. Her foot looks like a multi colored mango. owowowowowowowowow.

Traveling today to visit DD 25. Call me the roaming chef.

That turkey was the best ever. People who don't like brined birds are negative influences you should not have in your life.
Teaching 1/2 day, pack, throw together a few pies, pack car and go.

I hope everyone has a wonderful holiday.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/22/17 04:29 PM

WUD,

I like smoked turkey the absolute best. People who are devoted to just cooking a boring bird in the oven in a traditional way need to go back to the 50's where they belong!

I'm not surprised by the bruising your daughter has. But I'll be interested to hear what the next doctor visit finding is.

I hope your holiday is wonderful and filled with love and laughter. Not many deserve it as much as you do.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/23/17 01:56 AM

Miranda has an excellent wish that you'll have a great holiday with love and laughter. I agree! Enjoy! smile
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/23/17 02:10 PM

Thank you! Dropped a picture perfect raspberry pie 😫! The Apple survived the drive.
Iíve cooked more holiday dinners than Martha. They are looking online for directions. So I sit here bored. Twiddling my thumb s. Ah, such is youth.

>sigh<. Time to practice my future ďGranny got into the eggnog, again!Ē role.
Posted By: Oblivious2678

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/24/17 02:34 PM

Better than "Grandma got ran over by a reindeer!" ROFL
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/24/17 05:11 PM

Oh thatís rough about the pie! Iíd have been heartbroken! And then Iíd have passed it off as cobbler if at all possible, lol.

Itís really hard when they donít come to you for direction when youíre an expert! But thatís often the way when they want to seem independent. I always feel so grateful when the boys want my advice or assistance and itís fairly common. But my husband doesnít seem to feel like itís often at all. So Iím not sure which one of is accurate there!

Maybe just better to be glad that theyíre making their own way!
Posted By: LivingWell

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/24/17 06:22 PM

Sorry about the raspberry pie! Hope the eggnog was plentiful, lol!

Looking online for cooking instructions is one way to exert their independence and forge their own trail. Ime, when they really need my help and know-how, they will ask. In the meantime, good job not hovering and offering help every 5 minutes as I used to do..... it makes it possible for them to even ask for help when they're ready.

This year, my son's gf cooked her first turkey.... and she asked me for directions on how to do it. I was thrilled, honored, etc., that she asked me but, at the same time, I wondered if her mom would be upset that she didn't ask her (or any of the many cooks in her very large extended family).

Such is youth when they are on the path to great adulthoods.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 11/24/17 11:33 PM

Ah, doctor know it all at the helm. They did a very good job. I was bored stiff. Read a book, hunted for wine, actually.
After dinner, I took a nap, I woke to find they ate th entire apple pie. Just the three of them. (Oink). I guess the Apple was just that good. Pink lady/Granny Smith.
High energy people donít like to relax at holidays... methinks
Traverse City was beautiful for some strolling, today.

Got some great toys for Toys For Tots collection.

Hope everyone is having a great weekend.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/04/17 12:55 PM

Argh! Wrote a long post and it >disappeared<.

I can't believe December and people are walking around without coats, here. After school Friday, I went downtown D for Architectural Salvage slumming, found a 1925 wooden case "slave" wall clock - for $50. Glass, face, wooden patina excellent shape. Replaced back panel (so I got to use my brad nailer... woo hoo. Played the "dumb gal" and got the wood store guy to cut the birch panel for me, so I didn't have to vacuum my basement again.)

Hands broken, I spent the weekend gluing them to replacement hands and gerrymandering it all together with a new battery motor.

Leaving some tiny external paint spots on from the Detroit Edison Burrows Rd. Print shop, to be exact, I quickly turp/stainless steel polished it and put a quick coat of shellac on to preserve the marvelous patina. It turned out fantastic, keeps time with union pride in my 1926 house, built, just like the clock in 1925.

Still have to finish a slipcover for a recliner, everything is coming together well.
I hope everyone is having a nice December.

Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/04/17 01:29 PM

I wish I could fix things like you can. I can't even hang up curtains without doing it wrong.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/04/17 01:57 PM

Originally Posted By: catperson
I wish I could fix things like you can. I can't even hang up curtains without doing it wrong.


Cat, are you doing WRONG, or is someone TELLING you it's wrong? I used to be like WUD, and could fix anything and DO anything, but since I've been with my husband all that has really eroded, because literally EVERYTHING I do is wrong, according to him. I literally cannot even breathe correctly!

But since I've been in therapy, and been paying attention to others and things going on around me, I've realized that my abilities didn't go anywhere. Nothing about me changed. Just my perception got skewed by the constant criticism and fear! Now I'm much better about knowing I can do most anything, and I do a lot more, I just don't let my husband KNOW or SEE me doing it!
Posted By: Oblivious2678

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/04/17 03:14 PM

Wrong in whose eyes? I would love to be as handy as WUD also. I'm learning everything via YouTube and trial and error.

Try not to be so hard on yourself. Start with a very small project. It can be a craft or whatever. Something that you can work on from start to finish and feel proud of it in the end. Then build from there onto bigger projects.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/04/17 03:19 PM

Oh, I "do it wrong" most of the time. "Screw it up 7 times, fix it 8" is my motto.

The wooden case was pretty straight forward, new back, brad nails/ cleaning and shellac.
I hate those "easy" battery quartz powered motors. I had to retro fit the dial, then use washers to give or take length for the hands to move. Since I wanted "old" hands, I glued them to replacement hands. THAT made them too thick to fit on the nose of the thing.
So I had to "dremmel thin" the metal to a paper thin thickness.
I still had to assemble and then take the clock apart about 10 times to adjust the distance... then the minute hand fell off after I hung it because I tweaked it too much. Aaargh. take it all down and start over. *%&(*#$&^&#$&*(#%&(*&$*(#&)* !!!

Screw it up 7 times, fix it 8...

simple my foot.
Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/04/17 04:11 PM

No, literally wrong. Like I put the things in the wall, hang the poles, and then it all falls out of the wall and crashes to the ground. And that was my third try; I had to by then cover up all the other holes I'd made, lol. I know HOW to do it cos I've seen my H do it dozens of times, but when I try to use a power drill or even a screwdriver...never goes right. I can't even get those little screw things torqued into the patio roof to hang a windchime.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/06/17 12:46 PM

Aww, awww and awwwwwww. I bid on a 1960's blow mold "frosty" yard decoration - just like the one I had as a kid. We used to sled at night on the front hill with Frosty lighting the way.

Some ebay chump bid me up, in $2 increments, until my max bid {??&*^%&%^ ???!} so I was a little frosted with the transaction.

BUT, Monday came and Frosty arrived, he is as cute as I remember, original paint. Original wiring??!!!??!!? H@lie Cr@p. He was working JUST FINE in the auction photos. Socket corroded.
... ... ... am I ever going to get away from random electrical?

Since I intend on keeping him outside, my only updated choice at Home Depot in cord was a 16ga with an insulated plug. For. One. Light bulb. With new light bulbs that's like drawing 9 amps on a wire for 1,449 amps.

Well, I could easily splice and run a table saw or compressor outside if I had to. [img]http://https://www.google.com/search?safe=strict&biw=1258&bih=734&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=xeYnWousK4fXjwTC066QBA&q=blow+mold+frosty+vintage+red+and+green+scarf&oq=blow+mold+frosty+vintage+red+and+green+scarf&gs_l=psy-ab.3...128700.132942.0.133073.22.21.1.0.0.0.119.1159.18j1.19.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..2.0.0....0.MOYe5WFiT0s#imgrc=hqZsR9PSvyKHEM:&spf=1512564612474[/img] \

Even though he is not 1920's, I think his styling is a complete match for the house.
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/06/17 12:49 PM

That sounds so fun wud and good thing you are so good with electrician stuff!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/06/17 01:11 PM

Coming up on my 4th Christmas since bomb drop/divorce. I can't believe it has been over 3.5 years.

I have been doing my recovery process, I feel like I have come a long way from last year, that was a long way from the year before and further still from the first two. So I will mark that down as progress.

My daughters are still not on speaking terms with their father. We don't talk about it AT ALL. They are upset I'm not "over it", I think.
DD21 was in a very rare mood. Clomping around on her broken foot, may have had something to do with this all. She told my sister that her father is a total (fill in the blank)

Apparently, he is fine trying to guilt DD21 into talking to him, on his terms, of course, - but he is FINE having nothing to do with DD25.
DD25 speaks her mind. WAY better and with more humor than I. Her dad does not believe he has done anything wrong, in fact, he has written himself into a story where he is some kind of victim/hero. DD25 dispels that notion straight away.

DD21 is the weakest link, and got the brunt end of the entire divorce mess. Some of it unintentional a LOT of it intentional.

My sister and DD21 talked, I asked to not be told the details, but I got the gist.

I'm sorry this happened to my kids. Not that I have been asked to "fix " this, but even WAS I would not step in, it is not my place. A family dilemma I can't alter. O. M. G.

Just like the Dairy Queen Drama Queen X is, he wants to split the kids, apparently. All for his self satisfaction.
Can't wait for this to be a non issue. For me, and a resolved or non issue for the kids, too.
Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/06/17 01:49 PM

It kills me that adults don't truly realize the damage they do to their kids when they choose such paths. I'm almost 60 and still in pain over my childhood and specific actions. I remember vividly my dad picking me up for my weekly visit (lucky me, right?), only to be taken to his current girl's apartment, where I was expected to babysit her kid while they went into the bedroom. My life was full of moments like that, and it's shaped who I became. Your girls are lucky, though, wud, cos they have you helping them through it.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/06/17 02:05 PM

It will take your daughter time. Your younger daughter is more susceptible because she has the fond memories of older times where he gave her lots of attention. Older daughter doesn't see it the same way. She saw more of the real him, before and after.

The same thing is going on at my Ex's house. My daughter is susceptible to the guilt, and my son is not. Keep working on it and things will improve. Cat is right that you are a good parenting guiding your girls through things (you did not choose).
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/06/17 04:01 PM

Cat; Gads, that's terrible!
Last year, my DD21 met her father - once for dinner. She got up and walked out during the meal. According to him, he's done nothing wrong, the girls are mean ("not adult") to him, he is only offering an "adult" relationship. (don't ask for money, don't question the divorce, my new love or my life.)

It is so sad to see a parent put their children (I DON'T CARE how old they are - they are still his biological kids.)
Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/06/17 05:04 PM

I remember once telling my dad he was getting fat and he he really ripped into me. How dare I? Who did I think I was? Stuff like that. I was 10.
Posted By: MaidUpName

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/06/17 05:49 PM

Sing it sister!

Our timelines are very similar, our ex's very similar and the way our children reacted not too dissimilar although my guys are that much younger.

We've been in a really good place but last night DS11 flexed his muscles and darling Dad threatened to go legal. The child is 11 and when he told WD he didn't want to spend 4 days away from his new toys, his own bed, his granny etc. but agreed to three Donkey chucked a strop and told him to "tell Mummy that if I involve the solicitors this will get horrible" Truth is, I don't care if he goes legal - DS will be 12 in July. No judge is going to force him to go on access with an absent father if he chooses not to and he's finding his voice. If WD thinks threatening him/me will help him, he's even more delusional that I thought.

So yea WUD, I hear you. I'm about to strap back on the helmet and await the shinola storm I presume is coming.

His kids are 11 and 15 and he expects them to support his new life behave like adults and not mind that he turned their lives utterly upside down very_angry

I firmly believe your jack wagon and my donkey were twins separated at birth!

MUN
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/06/17 07:42 PM

I am so sorry that you have to go through this with your children. At least your son made his desires known, instead of stuffing it down.
Let him know however this turns out you are proud that he "said his peace", even if it DID make for an uncomfortable conversation.

My DD25 could give university lectures on sarcasm, I have no idea where she gets it from! One time only she copied me with her reply to her dad about her attending a "family reunion" for his side of the family. I had to putt the car over to finish reading it, I had tears running down my face from laughter.



Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/06/17 10:01 PM

Your DD25 will go far in life! Her sense of humor will certainly help out, but having good boundaries will keep her safe. I'm impressed.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/08/17 08:16 PM

If you are or have been a WS, I apologize in advance.

Erp and damnation. I just can't sit on this today. Another teacher a few doors down, had a "little hidden" affair with a married female teacher across the school a few years ago.
Blew up both families. I knew the OM's wife from chaperoning duties, she offered to help a lot. She is truly a quality person with a huge heart. Her husband has a roving eye. Just one of those deals.

Even though I had to work on after school things with both affair partners, I kept my mouth and opinions to myself. >imagine<

Everyone speaks well of BS. (One example, their son 16, is very disabled. He thinks he's all better now, >he's so funny< because he stands and gives HUGE testament to how he used to be "like those Special Ed kids", but he's not now due to the fact that his mother is wonderful, and she worked with him, every EVERY day, REALLY, really hard, until he was like he is today!" grin brother, ain't that the truth!

I noticed son has been avoiding dad's classroom awhile. Dad is kind of sarcastic and judgmental - ish. So, I kinda put extra time and $$ into kid. He's 6'2" but has the personality of a friendly 6th grader (6th graders still like teachers) Gave him a special assignment and we made a paper mache dragon head (his favorite creature) all trimester long.

more later....
Posted By: FashionBarbie

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/09/17 11:44 AM

WUD, your heart of gold shines again.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/09/17 06:11 PM

WuD, I was hoping you would post the rest of the story already. I checked last night and this morning. I may be a little impatient...

impatient
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/11/17 12:57 PM

FB: Thanks, but I did not mean to humble brag. It is only $0.99 foam sheets, that the school pays me back for.

Blair: grin

____
SO, student and the dragon:
I would have him take "Sparky" to show his father, and the woodshop teacher, who helped him mount the head to a show base. Then the Principle had to see it, as well as Assistant. That wob of paper and glue is well traveled.

Anyhew.
Kid stopped wanting to go show his dad his progress about 2 months ago. He would just look at his feet and shake his head. Say nothing, but took some of the enthusiasm out of the entire project.

Since I am FB friends with "dad", who almost never posts so I forgot I was, I have been recently privy to a bunch of "Out for dinner with the LOVE of my LIFE!" posts from him. Curious er and curious er, but no photo or other identifying info.
Ok, I know parents are divorced and all... absolutely appropriate to posts that sort of thing, if that is what you are into.
>> what eves.

Last week or so, I saw a female comment on one of the posts. Followed that to her public page and creeped like a lizard on a hot rock.

I don't know when this one came on the scene, but she has barstool, Budweiser, flipping off the camera shots all over. She is not attractive, but is smaller than wife by a bit, and what she got she crams into a bikini and posts those too.

Apparently, the love of his life loves; Kid Rock, guns, beer, drinking and barstools.

"You can kiss my red, white and blue @$$!" type stuff. What really, REALLY sunk me is when she was posting her pro Trump stuff, she kept referring to how "she can't stand", "all liberals" (us snowflakes) and Democrats as "retarded", "retarts" "Retards"and "libtards", "Stupid" etc.

The woman GLOWS prejudice, I'm sure even a disabled young man can see it.







Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/11/17 01:50 PM

Any way you can help that poor kid find a different male role model?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/19/17 01:35 AM

[img]https://www.facebook.com/PearlsComic/pho...e=3&theater[/img]
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/19/17 01:51 AM

I just noticed your update, WuD. That is heartbreaking. He is desperate for another positive role model.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/19/17 01:11 PM

I don't see him everyday now, the trimester changed. I hope he will figure this all out with his father.

I don't know if I am arty, perceptive or just imagining things, but it is as obvious as Rudolph's nose that this is an issue. Hopefully sister, who is incredibly smart, will help protect him.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/22/17 01:13 PM

Pshew! Last day before a 2 week break! I am happy to report, at my 4th time 'round the holidays alone... I have come enough forward to be at >meh<. I wish I could be as holy and jolly as I was for the previous 30, ignorance is true bliss,
... ... but all things considering, I'LL TAKE IT! I certainly miss the companionship I had, it is till very puzzeling to me, about what happened, that is. BUT I will take this neutral feeling as positive growth.
I have much to be thankful for, and much to be happy about.

Still a bit behind on house work, (that chair slipcover is killing me!) - but have great news on that front- The Supreme Court ruled 6 - 0 to give back the extra retirement funds that were taken out of our public school teacher checks 2010 - 2013.
(just follow me here for a minute.)

I thought Gov. Poison Water was going to get to keep it "cause we can" - it took 4 courts (we won every case) to decide it was unconstitutional - and refund the dough.

Some women think; vacation. car/car repairs/shoes (?)
My first thought... ... ... SAVINGS {- money for the GUTTERS THIS SPRING!}
gutters, gutters, gutters and more gutters!

Then I started laughing at myself. What a romantic dreamer I am!
This guttertask, I'm just having contracted out. I swung like a monkey TOO LONG from ladders painting that exterior this fall.

Plus, I found a local guy who pulls up with a trailer, measure and bends the gutter on site - and is gone in an afternoon.

Now, If I can only find his number.



Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/22/17 01:47 PM

WUD, we had that seemless guttering done on our house this fall. With screens since we have a lot of trees. It cost us $850 and he finished it in two short afternoons since he has another full time job.

We really like it. I thnk it is a great use of found money.
Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/22/17 01:52 PM

Man, I would love to have those.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/22/17 02:20 PM

Originally Posted By: catperson
Man, I would love to have those.


It was part of our exterior remodel that we took a HELOC out for. Wow that sentence is horrible, but anyway, lack of gutters had contributed to damage over the years to the siding.

My odd little house is looking a lot better. Here is the link to my photbucket ( I didn't use my real name) http://s1266.photobucket.com. If you scroll down you can see the before pic....notice how we went from double door to single and how the new Windows make it all look so much more balanced and less cluttered.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/22/17 04:34 PM

I have icicles that hang down 3 feet on the one side. I know that a 90 year old foundation should be protected by diverting water away.

Both home assessors told me how important gutters were on historic homes. I agree and see the need but up to this time it was "take a number and get in line" issue.

Not good for roofline, either, I have a relatively new roof, it was a complete tear off, so I don't need to be courting an ice damn. >sigh<. My estimate was under $700, so I thought that was a great deal.
First I wanted to paint, now that's done.

Next I need an extra $700 smile smile smile

Patience, patience. I know, I know. Sooner or later it all will get done. I have been extra lucky to find a few of the improvement deals I have, and got a tremendous amount done (for one person working full time) in two years.

Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/22/17 05:04 PM

WUD

We have the same issue. When we built our addition we tried to do the gutters ourselves and it wasn't successful, they're not sloped properly and we never finished up with proper downspouts and diverters because we knew we'd botched it up!

but by the luck of the Irish, the guy who did our gorgeous vinyl fencing this summer (and who is also coming back in the spring to do the last bit of building porches and steps we didn't finish on that addition, with mostly materials we have leftover from the projects we've already done ) knows a guy who does great gutters at a great price. He's going to send him out in the spring! He said he'd patch up our work in a matter of hours for peanuts.

Good grief I love these Amish guys...
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/22/17 05:36 PM

Do you watch Peaky Blinders? <sp?
Posted By: catperson

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/22/17 06:52 PM

I just get the main page, SW.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/22/17 08:30 PM

WUD,

That's a netflix thing isn't it?? I can't do netflix or anything streaming as we don't have any kind of cable internet where I live. frown

At any rate, no, I've never seen it.
Posted By: SmilingWife

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/22/17 10:07 PM

Originally Posted By: catperson
I just get the main page, SW.


Well you should be able to click view albums of some such
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/23/17 12:00 AM

Originally Posted By: SmilingWife
Originally Posted By: catperson
I just get the main page, SW.


Well you should be able to click view albums of some such


Me too. There are no albums for me to click on.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/23/17 12:01 AM

WuD, good gutters are worth it. Ice dams are bad. The damage is usually extensive.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/24/17 02:00 PM

Netflix carries it, but it is a BBC show (?) - cira@ 1900 - 1920's. Set in Birmingham, England. Racketeering Irish/ gypsy family.
But they use Romanian influence/lore -- so I'm a bit confused.

Many references to the "luck" of the family.

Anyhew, post WW1 - family of boys who grow up in brutal times. Like Sopranos, you wind up rooting for the bad guys. If you have a empathetic nature, the scenes are gut wrenching at times.

I absolutely love the 1920's setting/staging of current season. Wallpaper, furniture.design and clothing. Apparently my 1920's house has taken over.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/24/17 02:03 PM

-- continued.
Absolutely love the details! In fact, looking at box link watch chain styles from the 20's. Make beautiful necklaces.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/24/17 04:03 PM

Iím half Irish half Italian from the east coast on one side. The whole ďmobĒ thing runs pretty strong through my veins. And I know the Irish have their own ties. M

The 20s aesthetic is very beautiful. I have some pocket watches here that Iíve been researching. Quite interesting and gorgeous.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/28/17 05:26 PM

Hope everyone had a tremendous holiday! I had a great time doing all the WuD? things.
Since I followed up with my gutter guy from last fall, he actually pushed the job through yesterday, in freezing conditions! I thought heíd wait a bit. I was shocked they work like that, year round. Itís about zero, now.
With two frozen helpers, he pulled a truck /trailer into drive, took him almost four hours, but they did an excellent job. Oh, my Gawd. Bless their frozen toes.
Research trumped ďdo it yourself erĒ traits, higher quality gutter, no seams, run at the correct water run.
Not worth doing it yourself - for a few hundred dollars over materials.

So, I stayed inside, fed dog carbs, and was thankful it was not me, for once, hanging off the ladder. Due to combined ( mine and companies) effort, exterior house painted and gutters installed for under $1,000. It looks like a new/old house.
Iíll never pull a scam like that one off again. Iím sure the neighbors think Iím going broke here.... wait a min... I am!
Posted By: believer

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/28/17 07:00 PM

I didn't realize gutters were so cheap. I need them, but have been hesitating...
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/28/17 09:22 PM

If you find an indie contractor ( like on Craigslist Services), they roll the darn forming machine right on property. It is thicker aluminum than you get as consumer, and, of course, they keep white pieces o stock.

My estimates were ($6,300) leafgaurd, ($2,300 ) Victors roofing, and two "Roll By" independents at @$650. Each. Funny, I think I got a superior product and supported locals. My house is straight forward Cape Cod with 5 downspouts.

Give the guy props where they are due. He without hesitation knew where things should go. From what I heard you can screw up things badly with standing water. Everything is angled correctly, diverted from house, and .27 ga (I think) powder coated aluminum.
I NEVER thought I'd have to know all these details 3 years ago. >sigh<.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/28/17 11:31 PM

That's awesome! You have new gutters!! And I'm glad you stayed inside the house and off the icy ladder.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/31/17 04:40 AM

Still pretty pleased with myself about rounding out 2017 with those final "house-wife" chores.
I hated/loved Star Wars. No spoilers intended, but I like the way they rolled the old, new and in-between characters together, it felt very solid as a once and future series.
There is the usual theme of King David vs Goliath, failure vs hope. It made me feel like a washed up idealist.

Leaving the theatre, there was a young group of teenagers mouthing off to an obviously 20 something guy and his girl at the drink station. Like a real trooper, I saddle up to the pop refill, look at the bravado boys, and say, bored/stink eye on warm up, calmly; "Go home, go home... go home". Look at the others; "Go home". Look at 20 something (must have been autistic, really, who geek-argues with 5 teenagers?) "Go home."
People walk away without any more words. To tell you the truth, it did feel good to be the inertia that stopped a potentially stupid event from happening.

Then I have self talk.
What ARE you doing? Why do I do this? Why do I have to be the Dudley Do-Right? Even though I talk to kids with confidence all day long, I really have no authority here. What am I DOING?

A friend told me later; "That is your problem. You are a Dudly at your core."
She is a counselor, too, so she gives advice. I listen.

The reason you have had such a difficult recovery, is you think everyone has a Dudly core. Your cognitive dissonance is what's conflicting you - holding you back. Even though I have accepted the actions of xh, I have not given up the hope that he's really this poopy a person.

So. theres that. Something to think about.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/31/17 04:42 AM

Sorry, can't edit from here. The last para was what she said to me.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/31/17 05:16 AM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
Even though I have accepted the actions of xh, I have not given up the hope that he's really this poopy a person.


My Ex is that horrible of a person. Your Ex is too. You just always see the good in people. Your gift of finding things and fixing them is hurting you when it comes to your Ex. And you are still seeing potential in him. I'm sure that's a bit frustrating for you.

You'll get to indifference. It will take time because you always give so many people the benefit of the doubt. You have a big heart.
Posted By: NewEveryDay

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/31/17 03:34 PM

WuD I agree you are onto something there, thanks for sharing it!
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 12/31/17 11:24 PM

I need to take that thought and inventory why it seems a hot button for me. Oh well.
Drove Downtown to a Holiday Pop up Market. Really beautiful setting. Warming tents, greenhouse vendors. I think there is an opportunity for selling original art work here, somehow.
Maybe putting something together for next year. Grouping some friends for targeted sales.

I don't know. Give me something to work for, work on.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 01/01/18 12:08 AM

What about summer pop-up markets for your art? Have you thought about teaching any classes?
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 01/01/18 04:50 AM

I've been known to teach a few classes here and there.

The success was HUGE for the marketers. Thought it would be good for a collective. There is no way I could fill it. I sold all my extras years ago.
Posted By: SFB

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 01/03/18 04:12 PM

WuD:

Don't ever stop being a Dudley.

I have more regrets about NOT doing something in a situation than when I tried to be a Dudley.

SFB
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 01/05/18 05:14 AM

SFB;

Throughout the end of my marriage and pick me dance, I was accused of many things, of being many things. My xh was a doozy of a finger pointer - so good, in fact, I beat myself up daily trying to be better. This would lead to unrealistic expectations on my part, and there would be a blow up or blow out. I would feel terrible about things and the venn diagram would start anew.

For all the terrible attributes that were thrown at me, I always knew that deep down I was a good person. {But, in reality, doesn't everyone believe they are a good person???}
I was intelligent, educated and an empathetic person to others naturally. I like who I am, warts and all. Had I not had this basic belief, I know I would have not made it through all this. Really. -- So, there's a plus.
Give me a cause and something I can do about it, or a task and an instruction manual. Happy camper.

On the other hand, I project these same attributes onto my xh and other people. I not only trust people - but I trust people I should not. But I believe my projection 100%.
I have a huge cognitive dissonance, even today, with accepting that people are skunks. So, that's a huge negative.

I don't think I could NOT be a Dudley, at least, knowingly. It's not all good being Dudley. Sometimes you are left holding the bag.

Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 01/05/18 05:32 AM

P.S. People, It is freezing sub zero cold out there. Someone on my FB feed just hit a blue pit dog, who was ok from the accident, except it was freezing to death. It had ice in it's eyes, nose and mouth, 30 lbs underweight with a untreated growth on its arm. It couldn't even move well, it was so far gone. It also had one of those "pinch" collars around its neck, but no tags.

With the magic of social media posts, I got updated on this poor beasts journey over the last few hours. He can't go to shelter, they put pits down 100% in this area. A vet promised not to turn him over.

Whaaaaattheactual???? The dog is at the vet's now, fed and warming up slowly. They are calling authorities about the animals general condition, let alone the freezing issue. Hope they find them.

Dudley wants to punch the owner in the face, I probably would for the weight issue), then donate to vet bills I'm sure are coming. I'll have to see how doggy is tomorrow.
Posted By: Blair

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 01/05/18 05:52 AM

That is heartbreaking. Pets are part of the family where I come from.
Posted By: Oblivious2678

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 01/05/18 01:29 PM

Originally Posted By: whatsupdoc?
SFB;

Throughout the end of my marriage and pick me dance, I was accused of many things, of being many things. My xh was a doozy of a finger pointer - so good, in fact, I beat myself up daily trying to be better. This would lead to unrealistic expectations on my part, and there would be a blow up or blow out. I would feel terrible about things and the venn diagram would start anew.

For all the terrible attributes that were thrown at me, I always knew that deep down I was a good person. {But, in reality, doesn't everyone believe they are a good person???}
I was intelligent, educated and an empathetic person to others naturally. I like who I am, warts and all. Had I not had this basic belief, I know I would have not made it through all this. Really. -- So, there's a plus.
Give me a cause and something I can do about it, or a task and an instruction manual. Happy camper.

On the other hand, I project these same attributes onto my xh and other people. I not only trust people - but I trust people I should not. But I believe my projection 100%.
I have a huge cognitive dissonance, even today, with accepting that people are skunks. So, that's a huge negative.

I don't think I could NOT be a Dudley, at least, knowingly. It's not all good being Dudley. Sometimes you are left holding the bag.

You have rebounded nicely. Like you said, the basics/foundation of yourself never wavered. It allowed you to rebuild from that same foundation.

Trust is such a hard thing. Determining who is worthy of our trust is so difficult to gauge sometimes. It seems like there are less and less genuine people out there. You don't have to be a Dudley, but definitely protect yourself first and foremost, holding up the barrier wall until they earn your trust.
Posted By: holdingontoit

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 01/05/18 01:54 PM

Hard to fight against being who you are. WuD, do you really want to stop being a Dudley? If not, tell yourself that occasional emotional bruises are the inevitable cost of having so much love to share.
Posted By: Miranda

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 01/05/18 02:52 PM

WUD

Try not to judge too harshly. You never know what the situation could be. With those dogs it is very difficult. It is possible that the owners came on hard times and could not provide for him/her. And because the shelters automatically put them down, there's nowhere for them to turn.

It's a deeper problem than anyone realizes. My heart breaks for the poor animal, without having to condemn the person automatically.
Posted By: whatsupdoc?

Re: Alone again.......naturally? - 01/05/18 04:27 PM

At least the dog seems to be well. Being around a year old, bounced back quite well.. ah, youth.
I didn't know you could have frozen eyes/eyelids and still be ok. That was one lucky road pup, it was pretty much a goner when found.

The one thought that has been instrumental in my personal recovery, which still rambles off track sometimes, is that "I" am normal.
When you have a relationship with someone over decades an intrinsic value develops in that relationship. Think parents, siblings, close cousins/friends etc.

That relationship becomes more valuable than items or flattery from another. MOST normal, healthy people go to great lengths to protect those relationships, even when there are problems. It's human nature.

What I felt for my xh , the pain of loss I still feel being separated from that relationship- is normal.
He did not develop o