I just never know what to say anymore. Kids came home with the usual first-day-of-school emergency contact paperwork cards today. I have *always* filled these out. Phone numbers for mother, father, place of employment, best number to try first, health insurance, neighbor contact, etc.

I entered my name, my work, my numbers. I entered his name and his number. Left work blank.

He comes over to me...he's very angry and upset. Says "I just saw this. My name and...nothing. Is this what you think of me? This goes back to our children's school, in this small town where we live. So everyone knows our business (this is a big thing with him..he's convinced everyone knows his dirty laundry and hates him).

I said "I filled out the forms the way I always do. When you are working, I put in your place of employment. You are not working."

Again, it turned back to "is this what you think of me?"

I said "I think I have to turn in the correct information to the schools"

And he started to tell me how I was airing dirty laundry, etc. I had to stop the conversation.

Ugh.

He needs more help than I can give him. I have suggested counseling but he refuses. It's another reason I have to extract myself.

I really am working on it. I just want to do it as painlessly as possible. I know it might not be possible. And I know it won't be as quickly as some people think I should do it.

Nah, you do things just at the pace you should. We are all different; many of us take longer than others to make the move. No one judges you for that.

Have you ever read that Between Parent and Child, by Hiam Ginott? It talks about helping our kids get past their hurts, by acknowledging their feelings. Do you notice how folks don't hardly ever get defensive with LA, even when she touches on stuff that they would snap at other folks if they mentioned?

Like you said, you know what he was trying to tell you, he's just projecting his feelings onto you and the other scapegoats (the townsfolk). That he feels like nothing, and feels embarrassed that he thinks everyone is thinking this. You've been living with this long enough, you know how to detach from this, "I know, it feels awful when folks just judge you on the parts that they see. Let's think of a name for your contracting company. How about House and Sons? And we'll put in the numbers." Just write in the same one again if you want. How important is it? I mean, OH, if this is what you're choosing to live with today, you know how to defuse it. Or like you did, putting the conversation on the back burner for a bit.

And then get some time doing something that's fun for you. Invite your H to join. You know he wants to be your hero, OH.

I remember I had some spells where I was just overwhelmed, didn't see a path out, and was just cranky every day. I would pick fights because I wanted a connection, but felt like I was going to be turned down, didn't see a clear path. You know how to clear the path today. What are some safe topics of conversation you could get going, so he does have that connection. Fun stuff you two like to do together.I would imagine it's rough right now, because the only way he is used to connecting with you is with the SF, and that's gone for now.

Good suggestions, Neddie, thanks.

I think I did the right thing for me last night, which was to detach. Capitulating and saying "let's think of a name for your company..." etc..wouldn't have worked for us. For one thing, it would be difficult for me to deliver this in a neutral tone and for the other, I believe he would have taken this as some other subversive message for me and an argument would have ensued. So detaching was the right thing for me to do and I am happy that I have that tool in my arsenal these days.

He was angry this morning...I have told him (yes, via email...) that a longtime friend whom I haven't seen in 25+ years, is coming to town this weekend. We lost touch with each other but recently reconnected via Facebook. H does not know her...I haven't spoken to her since early dating days w/ H as she moved overseas and then I lost contact.

So my plan is to pick her up at the airport and then we're going to spend 2 nights at the beach (crappy timing with this hurricane bearing down on us...LOL). And then we'll spend the third day in the city and then come home. This morning he said "well you never TOLD me any of this (meaning he only saw it in an email). I didn't rise to that bait.

He took his car this AM (the only one of our vehicles that is really somewhat road-worthy) and I was trying to figure out if the other car would be ok. But I got a text from him about switching cars, so it appears he has had some second thoughts on that!

OH - the only other thing I could think of to have included in the idiotic conversation about the school contact forms is to ask him what he'd like you to put in there.

But if I were in your position, I'd have done the exact same thing. I'd have probably even pushed harder on the "you're not working" angle, because that just infuriates me.

Making your own plans is exactly what you need to do. Start practicing being single. That might be the ONLY way he will ever wake up before it's too late - watching you build your own life without him.

This was exactly what I thought, and it could have been done with no anger of disrespect. Just a simple statement like, "oh ok, I didnt realise it was important to you. What do you want written in the space."

Airing dirty laundry *snort* like the school even cares. They only want the info for legal reasons more than anything else. Besides, what's so 'dirty' about whether or not someone works? Lazy, yes. dirty, no.

OH, you sound much less frustrated today. I look forward to hearing more about your weekend! Good for you for making fun plans! I think this will be good for your H, to be able to come through for you, too.

Do you all have fun when you take vacation as a family? Would that be worth planning for another time?

Girl, let me tell you, I'm bound and determined, these are going to be the *good* days. We spent enough time living in the shadows, disconnected from the joy all around us! I wish I was going on a weekend at the beach, too!

Very good book, I wish everyone could read it.

Hey I got mine to stop talking to me altogether. I told his mom the truth about his adulterous misdoings and that along with the fights that would start when we would see each other and I would not accept his treatment of me. He now says he will only talk through the intermediary who doesn't want to deal with him as he has frustrated her just as much with his condescending tone and rude comments.

So it's kind of a stand off...he's too busy with his new perfect and happy adulterous situation to take care of the responsibilities. And I can't talk to him about when he's going to get the rest of his stuff myself(because he threatens a restrainging order if I don't go through the intermediary) and the intermediary just doesn't want to deal with him period on anything anymore.

At least you can have civil conversation. I am proud of you for sticking it out. I know it's tough.

Hi OH!

I've missed you (didn't know this wonderful new board was up until TODAY!!!!).

Anyway, I am also concerned about you staying until 2012... He just seems to be in such a bad place--and there's no way it doesn't effect you and your children... In fact, we see that it does.

YOu know that I am all about keeping marriages together (perhaps too much sometimes). I just don't know how you would emotionally survive till 2012.

Hi Telly:

I know, I have the same concerns. And recently, I've been experiencing a resurgence of my panic attacks and I am feeling sort of a depression coming on...

He is avoiding a discussion like the plague. I told him I want to sit down this weekend and talk to him, and that I hope he is appreciate of how difficult this will be. I am trying to be respectful of how much he hates (and ignores!!!) my email communications. So, I'm going to Face-to-face it and I have to figure out what I want to say, how to make it short and sweet, how to develop a plan to push back on him when he either tries to get me off track, tries to wrest control of the conversation, tries to minimize my feelings or if he gets angry and sulky (all very real possibilities).

I told him that if he didn't want to talk to me, that was fine...however, I wanted to talk to him and that I needed for him to listen to me.

Since then, he's been going out of his way to engage me somehow...wanting physical closeness, wanting to do stuff for me, wanting to talk to me. And I must be deeeeeeep in withdrawal, because I don't want any of that from him at the moment.

He must be horny. I always know when DH is; he's nice to me, he pays attention to me, he does housework, and there's a quickness in his movements, like he's excited. So predictable.

Use the talking stick this weekend.

I had the same exact thought! Talk about feeling uber-used!

I moved this from the Marriage Builders Forums discussion. Gladstone was replying to a discussion about BH's and Plan A, and we got a bit off track. I left his reply to me there..he is welcome to move it...but I did move mine.


I'm intrigued, Gladstone. Not that any two different people will have the same reaction...but like your wife, I have stated for over two years now, that I am unhappy. I have said it out loud, which often resulted in an argument or a one-upmanship with him being MORE unhappy, or me being minimized (it even happened again last night as I was on the verge of a full-blown panic attack and his response was "you need to settle down..you can't do anything about this at 11 o'clock at night"), or when I take it to email, him becoming angry because he doesn't want to get the long, involved emails. Even the short and to-the-point emails made him angry.

So now, I'm just *this close* to saying "I am out of here".

I thought you were already out of there?

OH, no disrespect, but what has changed from two years ago?

Nothing.

He is still getting a free ride while you do all the work. He has not changed. And your kids continue to grow up watching a grown man not accept his responsibilities nor become a healthy partner, and they are LEARNING how to be an adult from both him and you - to either be a hateful Taker or a permissive and unfulfilled Giver.

Time to move on. You know nothing will ever change. You are right back to where you were two Springs ago - saying you're going to 'talk' to him.

OH is in a difficult place. She is dealing with a husband that has a disease as invasive as cancer.
I have a friend whose wife has Huntington's Disease. It is terrible and has now begun to impact her ability to think clearly. Would he be justified in walking away from this woman during her illness. I think not.
OH's husband has NOT been given a fair shake in my opinion. OH, we discussed this a lot on FB and I see no reason to rehash everything here. I think it is time to sit down with him and TELL HIM that you will no longer live with a person not taking responsibility for their own mental health. Let him know, as we previously discussed, that he has two weeks (or whatever time-frame you want) to have an appointment with a mental health professional. Play hard ball with him now.
The problem as I see it is OH has checked out of the marriage and is using this as a springboard(and a bit of an excuse) to walk away. If you want out, do it honestly and above board. Let him know you are leaving and close the door for good. If you still want a healthy recovered husband, give him a chance to make it right while still maintaining CLEARLY STATED AND FIRM BOUNDARIES.
I KNOW you are in a tough place. You have made it tougher on yourself. Today you can choose to make it easier. Your choice. If you are going to walk, do it for the right reasons and in a dignified and respectful manner. You have that right and nobody will fault you. You have the ABILITY to attack this problem in a far better way. The choice is yours OH.

That's my plan, actually. I am not planning a long, drawn-out, whiney "i'm unhaaaaaaaaaaaaapy" discussion. Kids will not be home this weekend and I have written my cheat-sheet.

1. Get help for depression

2. Stop drinking

And I will stay.

If not, I will move out with the kids (I have a place lined up now) and he can deal with the house and the fallout.

Give him a deadline. Do NOT leave it open ended. People with depression need to have a focus. The disease robs them of that.

If you stay, hopefully you will soften your heart towards him.

That last part is going to be difficult. It's why I keep second guessing myself. I'm hoping that I will, otherwise, I probably need to go, regardless.

I'm curious to know why you think that.

He knows ad nauseum that she is unhappy.

He knows she wants to leave.

She has given him deadlines before to get help and he has not.

And he has not made any attempt that I know of to do anything other than one phone call to Harley.

I feel that way for several reasons...some of which were discussed off board and will leave it to OH to bring up.
But for starters...depression is a serious disease and it robs a person of exactly what OH is looking for from her husband...motivation and direction. IF he had any other disease, we would be more understanding. Depression is still very poorly understood and still carries with it a stigma that people should just get over it. It is as real as cancer. He is UNABLE to do certain things right now...not just unwilling. This is the part of the vows that have to do with "in sickness and in health."
He doesn't know she wants to leave. He KNOWS she likes to complain and then do nothing. He also knows, by her actions that she is not in love with him. Imagine how that might make a depressed person feel.
OH has not figured out in her own mind that she wants to be married to him. Inasmuch, this entire issue is being used as a tool to justify walking away.
He needs help. He doesn't need to be abandoned.
I feel for OH. I understand her pain. I also KNOW that she hasn't sat down with him...perhaps with the help of another family member and let him know that he has X amount of time to SEEK help. He also doesn't know that she will be there at the end of this...heck, she doesn't even know. There is already a foot out the door.
Yes, he needs to work on his health. She needs to be supportive of that or go on her way. She gets to set reasonable boundaries and deadlines that should be reviewed with a mental health professional BEFORE presenting them to him.
Cat, imagine that a woman was here complaining that her husband wanted to walk away from her because she couldn't work due to ovarian cancer. What would we say to her??? I KNOW I would be furious for her. OH's husband has a disease that is every bit as debilitating and just as difficult to manage. At the very least, he deserves her best effort and a clearly laid out plan of action.
Just my opinion.

And Harley is NOT the person to help this man. He needs a LOCAL psychiatrist, one that can prescribe medicine and monitor his progress. Many, many people make the mistake of having their anti-depressants monitored by family doctors. Having sold Zoloft and knowing the potential impact of these drugs, I know this is a bad idea in most cases.

Not only is it a terrible idea...that's exactly what he did w/ Prozac many years ago, and it was not a great experience for him and now he's that much more determined NOT to use ADs again.

OH, I'm gonna be honest with ya, I just skimmed your thread and didn't read in great detail. Sorry....lol.... What stuck out to me from the very beginning is your willingness to stay for the kids at the expense of the kids. Now before you get all defensive, hear me out. First off, what are you showing your children on how a marriage/relationship should be? Secondly, while this has you bent, stretched, and stressed to the core, what do you think that's done to your relationship as a mother to your children?

I don't know what the answer is but do know that right now you are crippling those kids IMHO. A couple weeks ago, I had to confront a situation with my 15yo daughter. The hardest part was watching her struggle understanding the punishement her mother (my X wife) dished out when my daughter did EXACTLY what she learned at her house, from her relationship with her BF. My daughter accepts that unacceptable behavior as normal because that's what she sees mom do day in and day out......

And if he's a drunk, get the hell away, I'm a recovering drunk with 6 years sobriety and can tell you during my addiction I could bargain and cheat but didn't understand anything but cold hard consiquences.... Anywho, gotta run just thought I'd throw in some food for thought......