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Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440108
11/27/18 06:36 PM
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Sigh is there at least one of those stubborn kind in each family or most families? I recall my sister being that way.

Have the I know you are smarter than this but why are you working so hard to be irritable and stupid conversation. He is angry because he can be angry. He will take whatever punishment you put on him because it's a challenge not a lesson to be learned.

So change your method. He grumbles about doing the dishes at a different time or order, then let him stay with you in the kitchen while he watches you and others do their chores.

Banishing him to his room, isn't punishment. It is an escape, one of which he will repeatedly use as an excuse.

I think you son will outgrow this, eventually. If you want it to be sooner, change your methods of dealing with him. Ever heard of killing with kindness? I'm sure you have.

This is where love conquers. You love your son, no doubt about it but right now his love for you and all that is right is a fight within him. The fight is of an external source and he knows it. As he learns to flex his wings he is encountering this conflict reaching deep within his soul (aka: hormones, new relationships, competition, growing up).

It happened with my son somewhat but I kept at it. I reminded him we all have to work hard to maintain this household. Sometimes he forgets but he no longer has the major anger bird on his shoulder. Y? The option is still on the table that he can move out if he doesn't do his share. That's not a threat.

Our R is much better now and improving as time progresses. Small steps SW, tell your son you love him but can't love his bad attitude. Ask him how the family needs to treat his bad attitude or anyone with a bad attitude. Listen to his input, work from there.

Take care,
Orchid


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Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440109
11/27/18 06:37 PM
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That's what I thought. Ok, first I would have a private conversation with him. Ask him what his plans are for his life. Listen to him. When he's done, I would ask him what it will take for him to accomplish these things. Listen. When he skips all the things you know he's going to need, you can help him visualize it - getting along with his teachers, working with other students, learning to get along (and share chores with) roommates, having interviews upon graduation, getting along with the people he talks to, actually listening to them and figuring out how to show them that he offers what they need, sharing the workload with his coworkers and being a team - and then ask him to look at himself now: the self-centered person who controls his narrative through anger. Ask him how he sees that person fitting in in all those roles. Explain to him, in case he hasn't realized it yet, that he WILL get fired from a job, kicked out of a school, or kicked out of an apartment if he isn't a decent person to everyone. That he WILL have consequences. Give him some time.

And then bring him back to reality. Ask him to look at his actions of the past 2 years - the anger, refusals, selfishness. Ask him how he sees THIS person doing all those things you just described him needing to do in the future, if he doesn't practice it TODAY. Explain that you don't just turn into a different person overnight. Let him sit on that for a minute.

Then I would bring up his actions of today. Insist that you understand how hard it is to be a teenage boy, all that pent up anger, need to do something, need to be your own person. BUT you are expecting him to also understand: that he is part of a unit here, so as long as he IS in your home, he will be expected to carry his weight AND be a decent roommate to all of you. And that involves getting along with you all, just like he will have to do with his roommates (or wife) - to treat them as well as he expects them to treat HIM. And that starts right here at home.

Then comes the part where you set real expectations. Make it clear that he is an adult now and, as such, he is here in YOUR HOME as your gift to him. To make it easier on him while he's in college, because you want him to succeed. But a gift that isn't respected will be retracted. Not as punishment but as you respecting yourself, your husband, your stepson, your home - and him. You respect him too much to ALLOW him to go down this path of rudeness and insensitivity without doing something about it. So here's the new rules for living in this house: Each person will have chores, each person will DO those chores, and they will do them in a respectful way. What that means is that people who disrespect the other roommates in the home will receive appropriate consequences. So as to protect the family unit and to help that person learn to be a better partner, roommate, household member.

He can choose to respect the new rules, or he can choose to ignore them and face consequences. Totally up to him, but there WILL be consequences. Such as, if he yells at anyone directly, he will be asked to leave the house for the night. Sleep at friend's, in his car, you don't care, but it won't be under YOUR roof. If he makes 'noise' while doing dishes, he will be expected to FINISH those dishes - no more rescues - but because you had to endure his poor attitude, his consequence will be an additional chore to take care of, one of yours. And if he digs his heels in, decides you aren't the boss of him, well, those consequences will just accumulate to the point that he will be determined too unsafe to stay in your home.

Reiterate that you love him more than life itself, but you are doing him a disservice if you don't put a stop to his poor behavior now. That you are enacting rules (you can come up with a whole set of rules for different circumstances), and he WILL be expected to abide by them, as your last gift to him.

THAT is what real life looks like. Better for him to learn it here, under your roof, than out in the mean streets, especially if he gets married and feels he can take it out on her.

Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440111
11/27/18 07:34 PM
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Interesting Cat. Before dinner, while we were here alone we were talking quite a bit and covered almost everything you put in your above post. He got close to tears discussing his forgetfulness (talked about how stupid he feels at work when he has to ask our boss over and over about things) and I reiterated that while it might be a true weakness of his he was going to HAVE to figure out a way to compensate. So we had a nice long talk and all seemed ok, he was even fine at dinner... but BAM the second something gets a tiny bit unpleasant he goes into hateful and angry mode. I went to my room and texted him....copy to follow

Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440112
11/27/18 07:35 PM
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‘Another example of you causing strife in this household. It was a 15 min job with or without the food sitting for an hour. You are so entitled that you think your inconvenience overrules everything else. We didn't just 'watch a tv show', it was family worship. THIS is the stuff I am talking about. It is ridiculous. My husband came in and insisted finishing because I have a bad finger that he is worried about.
You are so negative and hateful anytime something is even slightly unpleasant. I am tired of it Ds!. VERY tired!!!!!! ‘
He replied ‘I tried to do it and you yelled me out of the kitchen.’

I replied ‘Because of your attitude. I am sick of it. I dont want to live this way. I Dont want you doing YOUR part if you are going to be all angry! How hard is that to understand! You need to live alone where no one asks anything of you and you don't have to answer to anyone. ‘

He replied, ‘I'm sorry. I shouldn't have been aggressive and I really am sorry. Tell <my husband>thank you for doing the kitchen‘

I replied ‘Dh did it for me. Because he is worried about me. I need change out of you. Real change. Where you recognize YOU have responsibilities to other people which includes kindness, respect, and DOING YOUR PART with a good spirit. If you want to thank dh for doing YOUR work then YOU thank him. ‘

Last edited by SmilingWife; 11/27/18 07:39 PM.
Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440113
11/27/18 08:02 PM
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That's great - then you are halfway there: he realizes he is the problem. Now become his friend - his tough friend - to help him learn how to fix things. If he forgets steps at work buy him a little notepad/pen to keep in his pocket so he can write out the instructions and refer to them. If you sit down and write out all the chores he has at home, you can agree together what his consequences will be. So he knows what's coming if he gets angry or whatever. Work on it all together, as a project, so that he feels it's progress, uplifting, hopeful, and you being his friend. Also, if he knows the consequences upfront, he can't argue with you when he gets them, ok? HE made the choice to break the rule, so he gets the consequence. Go through instances of all the things that have happened, that you've shared with us, with him, and ask him to envision a better way to handle each one. Sometimes you really do have to help them envision stuff. My DD28 still doesn't know how to handle some things. Still can't see other ways to do things when she's in a pickle, so she welcomes my suggestions on how to handle them.

Write it all out, make him a copy to keep in his room, you keep a copy, and consider it a contract but also a training program. Let him see that this is going to help him succeed in life. He will become grateful to you, not resentful.

And try not to do any 'you' statements (you are so entitled) - we ALL feel up against a wall when someone does that, and we ALL feel compelled to just fight back or defend ourselves: the message, the intent, gets forgotten. Do third person. If Mary leaves George waiting 30 minutes longer, how will he feel about it? Bad huh? Then how do you think your girlfriend felt when you were 30 minutes late? This will help him start learning empathy, help him work his way out of his self-absorption.

There are tons of ways you can still help teach your son things...as long as he's not taking it as criticism.

Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440114
11/27/18 08:06 PM
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SW,

I'm right in the middle of a big job but had a short conversation with my son about your scenario. Will send you his input in a while.

Hang in there mom.......there's light at the end of the tunnel. Just need a bit more focused guidance. smile

It isn't he doesn't know but you can see the frustration he is dealing with from within.

Take care,
Orchid


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Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440115
11/27/18 08:24 PM
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I see a couple of different issues. One is his forgetfulness. Another his is irritation and anger when he has to do something he doesn't want. Another is his apparent lack of empathy or interest in other people.


I don't want to get to the point I tell him he has to move out. But I am also not going to accept this continued disrespect. Nor will I accept crumbs designed to keep me off his back.

Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440116
11/27/18 08:40 PM
11/27/18 08:40 PM
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Exactly why you need a plan, you need to sit down and AGREE on that plan with him -so that you're both on the same team.

In many circles, it's actually called a contract. Parents of teens and young adults often find that they have to set up a contract and literally sign it, so that they take it seriously. Look it up; you'll find tons of information on it.

His forgetfulness is probably part of his self-centeredness, fairly common in people his age, the world is all about him. The solution is WIIFM - for him to see what's in it for me? That's why I suggested having the discussion, so he understands that being a better person IS in his best interests.

Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440117
11/28/18 01:09 AM
11/28/18 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SmilingWife
If you want to thank dh for doing YOUR work then YOU thank him. ‘


I like this. Your DH will certainly appreciate it more if DS says it straight to him.

Re: Counseling [Re: Blair] #440123
11/28/18 08:12 AM
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SW,

I spoke with my son today about your situation. Wanted his insight as to the logic of what your son is going through. You know it is interesting that a few years make so much difference on their insight. That or maybe higher standards apply to others? I hope is not the later. wink

My son said he sees it more as a learning curve for your son. Going from teen to adulthood, is a scary mindset one that your son knows he can't reverse.

It is important now that you redefine your boundaries for him as he progresses. This is all new for him and his actions are probably more of a reaction with a twist of fear of the unknown while not wanting to appear scared.

Acknowledge this, give him a hug and let him know this new part of his life is actually more positive than scary. Help him refocus so that he can move forward with less fear and more certainty.

Give him a few wise words that have guided you . Just a few and help him learn to keep these in his pocket so when he gets panicky, anxious or scared, he can recall those words of wisdom to help guide him safely as he moves forward.

Let him know that knowing it all is just a fantasy for all of us but we can at least know more if we are able to keep a level head (clear mind/calm heart).

Here are a few 'wise sayings' that have helped me:

" Let your reasonableness become known to all...."

"But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment trained to distinguish both right and wrong."

"A kind man* benefits himself, But the cruel person brings trouble* on himself."

Sometimes those words really make a harsh statement:
'Like a gold ring in the snout of a pig, is a beautiful woman who rejects good sense.'

'Even a child is known by his actions, whether his behavior is pure and right.'

TRY THIS: When an issue arises, try reversing roles. Ask your teen what advice he would give you if you were his child. Have him do research to come up with reasons to support​—or challenge—​his thinking. Discuss the matter again within a week.


How about this suggestion: Do not rescue him by paying off his debts or by making excuses to his teacher for a failing grade. Let him feel the consequences, and the lesson will be long lasting.

I found these points and more in an article entitled: Preparing Teens for Adulthood. Yes, I've implemented some of those suggestions and found it helps. Then you have to remember to have patience because we may need to remember how we were at that age. smile

Take care,
Orchid


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Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440126
11/28/18 01:01 PM
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Thank you Orchid

Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440239
11/30/18 05:08 PM
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Well, things have gone well since my text to him a few days ago. No negativity, and once when I could tell he wanted to argue he shut himself down. It was after 11 on Tuesday night and he had just come home...I reminded him if he wanted a shower it needed to happen right then because we needed to go to sleep. He started to argue that we couldn't hear him, blah blah blah. But dh said, 'yes we can hear you, so just be considerate, that is all.' Ds just left without further comment.

Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440240
11/30/18 05:25 PM
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Nice!

Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440241
11/30/18 06:47 PM
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SW thanks for the update that’s so good to hear!


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440244
11/30/18 07:10 PM
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Keep up the momentum!

Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440252
11/30/18 11:44 PM
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That's awesome! Way to go!

Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440301
12/02/18 11:47 PM
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So can anyone explain this. Night before last xh texts me at 12:30 a.m concerned for us because there were tornadoes. I texted back (he woke me up) we are fine and then turned off my sound. The next day he sent me about 20 pics Of tornado damage at a lake house of some sort.....I ask him whose property it is...he tells me a friends mother. This friend is the husband of a woman who wrote HIGHLY inappropriate stuff to my then husband as we were divorcing. Back then, I sent the text to the husband d—anyway, they are still friends obviously. I responded only, .’wow what a mess’, but I think it really really bothered me.

Last night my dreams...Holy Crap. All. night. long about a man I once worked for, Think ‘Powerful, Attractive Man who hit on me constantly’. He was a real player.....I am long past believing I was anything important to him....just glad I nver gave in to his advances.

I was so disturbed by it all that when I woke up I googled his name thinking maybe he had d8ed. I don’t even believe in that sort of premonition...but I was so disconcerted.

I feel sure it had to do with contact from xh and the mention of that woman who said to my then husband, ‘I want a little piece of the <Smiling Woman’s husband>.

Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440302
12/03/18 12:19 AM
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SW, where reality crashes with your sub-conscience (aka: nightmares) shocked

Sorry to hear about to tornado damage to the home. I didn't read about any active tornados amongst all the other weather disaster events (fires in CA, earthquake in Alaska, etc.) but those weather activities are impacting others as well.

As for your unfortunate confusing nightmare, it can be how your sub-conscience is handling your stress. It is understandably stressful. It is important to you and that is the important piece.

Hope you are able to get better rest and dreams tonight. smile

Take care,
Orchid


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Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440303
12/03/18 12:29 AM
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Your XH needs to stop texting you about non-son stuff. He triggered you at 12:30 AM because he was most likely drinking and thinking about an OW and you. Not cool.

Re: Counseling [Re: Blair] #440304
12/03/18 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Blair
Your XH needs to stop texting you about non-son stuff. He triggered you at 12:30 AM because he was most likely drinking and thinking about an OW and you. Not cool.


12:30 a.m to say , ‘tornado has touched down and done a lot of damage. Are you all ok.?’ That was fine And it was very real and very true....a lot of damage very near us. My big PROBLEM was the next day to send me 30 pics of damage to some ones house.......that turned out to be a wanna be OW from when I was still married to him. I can’t believe he is still friends with them.and it really really triggers me.

I think it triggered the old boss dreams though I can’t figure out exactly how.

Last edited by SmilingWife; 12/03/18 02:08 AM.
Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440305
12/03/18 02:14 AM
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So I spent a bit of time texting xh about it tonight. This after I texted my best friend who confirmed it is weird he is friends with them still and sending me pics of them,

I had tears rolling down my face at times. I am sure a fair number people would think that weird....I struggled to stay focused on just telling him ‘ hey this triggers me’. He wanted to discuss a bit and guess what he Brought up? Yep, old boss. So clearly, to me anyway, my subconscious was aware if I protested the pics he sent me he would bring up old boss.

So mystery solved. Old boss is something that I actually have little regret over. He was intense, clearly interest in me, but never hit on me in the way this person did to my xh.

Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440306
12/03/18 02:20 AM
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I understand the tears and it is rude of him to send that text. Reminds me of when H wanted to invite his prior GF to our wedding. He was good friends before he met her with her mother and stepfather, he was so inconsiderate. He couldn't see why it upset me.

The old GF tried to invite herself. Seems my side prevailed, both her and her parents didn't show up. Her mom had better sense.

Still for you, did your DH give you a hug afterwards? At the very least to console you regarding the nightmare. hug

Hope so.

Orchid


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Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440307
12/03/18 02:28 AM
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SW, I’m so sorry. I remember those dynamics. XH used to like to say YD was the neighbor’s kid because they had the same hair color. To the point that I was grateful when I did the 23andme that my kids show as full siblings. Thankfully we don’t get into it anymore. But when you cross his boundary you know he’s going to try to cross yours too.

What do you think about coming here next time and venting to us?


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440308
12/03/18 02:33 AM
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I know the prevailing wisdom is to not engage.it is the advice I would give. But I did. I didn’t feel better until I texted him. When he Brought up old boss that I dreamed about last night.my brain went ah ha!

Re: Counseling [Re: SmilingWife] #440309
12/03/18 03:56 AM
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