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Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: SmilingWife] #439330
10/16/18 06:37 PM
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Often synthetic medication formulas are derived from what nature provides. As for cupping, I did try it once. Nothing noticeable from my experience. Oils and tapping on the other hand have provided long term and valuable effects. I do both daily and can see the improvement in my skin allergies. Tapping was first taught to me by a doctor when I had an anxiety attack and she also uses that technique to help people in other countries as well. She has worked with a team of doctors to aid children who were surviving victims of genocide attacks in Africa. Plus she has helped many here in the US through her practice.

If I can use a natural type of healing modality first, I do so. Changing eating habits a bit has also helped. Knowing my family's health history is important to accept. As a result, I believe I have kept off the onset of diabetes longer than my mother. By my age, my mother was insulin bound and later became a kidney dialysis patient. My family also has a history of heart disease. While I have been told I have an enlarged heart along with HBP, I am not on any medication at this time.

I am not against conventional medicine but do recognize the side-effects and try to work a balance in my life as a result. I also found that I am allergic so some medication formulas (i.e. sulpher drugs) while some pain relieving medications (i.e. Tylenol, etc.) don't have an effect on myself and my son.

Interestingly, I learned that some blood types work better with some foods, vitamins and even medication. I have tested out their lists and found it to be true even before I knew the detail (i.e. tylenol never really worked for myself and my son).

I'm not a doctor nor trained in the medical profession but I have learned and observed a few things over the years. My friend is a QE practitioner and I have benefited from her user of multiple health techniques over the years. I try to learn about the technique before I try it out and she lets me ask the hard questions, then . I go and do research as needed.

Being gullible isn't my thing. So even with conventional medicine, I do my research as well.

Something to think about.

Just sharing,
Orchid


Orchid
Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: catperson] #439331
10/16/18 07:09 PM
10/16/18 07:09 PM
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mgellan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by catperson
Today, maybe there are quacks who try to sell you something. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the people who throughout history DID take care of medical ills through herbs, ointments, poultices, and such that worked. Even Hippocrates espoused them. Pretend they didn't exist if you want, but history disproves you.

Well of course, I never disputed that - scientists not only know they work, they know WHY they work, and they create new, more powerful drugs based on the same principles. But just because some folk remedies work, that doesn't mean they all do nor should we take anyone's assurances they do before we do the leg work to decide whether they do. Otherwise we get situations where people think they're treating illness when they're doing nothing. And in some cases they end up in jail for negligence because they didn't seek out treatment that works.

Regards,
Mg


M:1990 DD:July2017 In Recovery DS16 DS14
O wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as ithers see us! -- Robert Burns
If you're going through hell, keep going. -- Winston Churchill
Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: SmilingWife] #439332
10/16/18 07:11 PM
10/16/18 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SmilingWife
Yes, that is the thing.....things change all of the time. Scientists aren't the be all end all. What works for some people doesn't work for others. I am a highly NON gullible person......yet I recognize i don't know everything.

Scientists use the scientific method, which corrects itself as time goes on - this is positive change. Assuming something works because your Aunt May swears by it isn't rational. Assuming something works when it hasn't been proven to work is gullibility.

Mg


M:1990 DD:July2017 In Recovery DS16 DS14
O wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as ithers see us! -- Robert Burns
If you're going through hell, keep going. -- Winston Churchill
Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: Orchid2] #439333
10/16/18 07:13 PM
10/16/18 07:13 PM
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mgellan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Orchid2
Often synthetic medication formulas are derived from what nature provides. As for cupping, I did try it once. Nothing noticeable from my experience.

Yet you were quick to recommend something that didn't work... and if I was gullible, I would. You see how this stuff works?

Mg


M:1990 DD:July2017 In Recovery DS16 DS14
O wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as ithers see us! -- Robert Burns
If you're going through hell, keep going. -- Winston Churchill
Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439334
10/16/18 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mgellan
Originally Posted by Orchid2
Often synthetic medication formulas are derived from what nature provides. As for cupping, I did try it once. Nothing noticeable from my experience.

Yet you were quick to recommend something that didn't work... and if I was gullible, I would. You see how this stuff works?

Mg


I mentioned 'cupping' but didn't recommend it. Just said I tried it once. I also tried medication where I had an allergic reaction and had to be rushed to the ER.

So why do you say I was quick to recommend something that didn't work? Cupping is an ancient process and some have felt results. I did not notice any benefit. Like medication, some works better for some than others.

I'm not getting your point. I want to use remedies that have less side effects, that's important to me. So in both conventional and alternative therapies, I check them both out.

Gullible would be if I just took someone's word for it and didn't do research along with asking pertinent questions.

Here's the thing, many over the counter remedies are made from plant products from land and sea. My grandmother used to cut her aloe plant and rub it's sticky salve on my heat rash when I was a kid. Now I may purchase the same plant product in a lotion or ointment over the counter product? Should I stop using the actual plant salve? We each get to decide. For myself, I use the over the counter product because I don't have an aloe plant in my home. I could plant one but haven't yet and my heat rash doesn't flare up as much since I have also found ways to hydrate my skin via some 'alternative methods'.

So a reasonable combination of both conventional and alternative / natural medicines and therapies have helped me. Why would I deny myself good care that's available?

jmo,
Orchid


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Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439337
10/16/18 08:51 PM
10/16/18 08:51 PM
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You sure seem to have some sort of chip on our shoulder about this, Mg. Why is that? The things that bug us most are usually a window into our soul.

I'll just add, how do you think the healers over the millennia LEARNED what worked and what didn't? They kept trying things, throwing out what didn't work, replacing it with what did; in other words, they applied scientific methods; they even compared their 'research' with other healers of other tribes and nations and expanded the knowledge throughout civilization. That's how the practice of science got started. We just use better and faster tools and equipment now.

btw, I always keep an aloe plant around just so I can use it to fix sunburns. Works better than any medicine I've ever had and, as a redhead, I've had plenty.

Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439338
10/16/18 09:15 PM
10/16/18 09:15 PM
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Do some studying. Two books, one written by a pediatric endocrinologist "The Hacking of the American Mind", and the other written by a neurologist/gastroenterologist "The Mind-Gut Connection". This is new research into mental illness as well as other diseases. Mind-Gut Connection talks specifically about depression starting in the gut.

So all those "herbs" and such that you're mocking, could save you from being some minor deity's (M.D.) chemistry experiment. Because that's what anti-depressants are. They do not, in fact, have an answer for what you're dealing with. But they will experiment with type and dose of drug, while you spiral down, unless you're the one in a million who gets the right concoction from the big pharma guys the first time.


Consider that we don't have to live with the consequences of our advice in your life. Act according to what you can live with!
Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439340
10/17/18 01:34 PM
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Very interesting how the mind works. Some very black and white and some gray. Nothing wrong with people doing what they feel is best for themselves. In a sense, we are all scientists. We all experiment. If it works for us, great! If it doesn’t, you try something different.

I am one who would prefer to put something natural into my body even though I am sometimes hooked on crappy, processed foods. As far as medicine goes, I Try to believe that there is a natural remedy to almost everything. If there isn’t, then I give in.

For my depression, I took Vitamin D. I exercised. I ate healthier. I took fish oil. All natural methods to help boost my serotonin. I witnessed my father taking medication basically all my life while he was alive. I don’t want to have to do that, but I know at some point, I will.

Mg, I believe a positive about your mindset is we don’t have to worry about you being insane. smile You don’t seem to be the type who tries something over and over again expecting a different result.

Good luck with finding what works for you. I believe you will.

Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439341
10/17/18 02:00 PM
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I believe in science. I just don’t always trust the humans in charge. Both because they are imperfect and because they sometimes have agendas.

As far as RX drugs for depression......I know some people get to the point they need it but I have seen a lot of bad outcomes and the one or two brief times I tried them I did. Not. Like them.

And Obl, I don’t believe you are doomed to be on meds just because your dad was!

Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439342
10/17/18 02:29 PM
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SW, definitely not doomed because dad was, but I believe a thing or two was probably hereditary. We’ll see. Seeing what he went through just helped me want to be healthier.

I agree with the trust factor. More and more every day I’m starting to believe that we have enhanced the cancer epidemic and other diseases with our concoctions that we ingest, breathe in, touch. Just because our government says it’s okay doesn’t mean it is. Corruption and dishonesty are everywhere especially when it is tied with making money.

Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439343
10/17/18 03:10 PM
10/17/18 03:10 PM
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Just so you know the energy behind my voice comes from currently watching my brother come down off an anti-anxiety med they put him on to taper off opiod use over a decade ago. He has been paranoid for years because of the damage to his brain caused by pain killers. prolonged use of a xanax family drug and anti-depressants has not helped. Now, 4 months from being able to see a psychiatrist (first opening in the schedule), a new doc decided to drop him off the xanax-type drug entirely. Nevermind the kidney failure stats, the terrible side effects of just stopping a medication like that. The reason why I call them "minor deities" is because of their all-powerful-control over someone's life once they get you hooked on big pharma solutions.

Hippocrates said, “Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." I've been studying while trying to help my brother. The paranoia and everything keeps him from being able to discern who and what is really helping or hurting him. Meanwhile fear is the dominant emotion he has.

Having seen what I've seen, I could NEVER encourage someone to go the big pharma route until they've cleaned up their diet (no processed or fast food) made up of lots of organic greens, clean protein, NO SUGAR, and no seed-based oils, along with added vitamin D and exercise for at least 6 - 12 months. .If the symptoms persist after the prolonged lifestyle change, then and only then would I seek out additional help.


Consider that we don't have to live with the consequences of our advice in your life. Act according to what you can live with!
Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: Kayla] #439346
10/17/18 10:48 PM
10/17/18 10:48 PM
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Understanding the effects of our choices on ourselves and others is important.

Is all conventional / man made medicine bad? No
Is all alternative, herbal, oil, etc. treatments bad? No.

Navigating to find what works best for us individually is a big challenge that many have not been educated or understand how to use efficiently. Add to the mix that individually the effects of all types of 'medicine' impacts how we learn how to make good and safe health decisions for ourselves and our families is a dynamic that adds to the difficulty and also can make much of the public vulnerable to addictions and in some cases false information.

The one common point is the need to be educated and truly learn our bodies plus be aware of our family's historical and current medical history.

jmo,
Orchid


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Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439350
10/18/18 04:15 AM
10/18/18 04:15 AM
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I think this all looks like a great start for another article, one on depression in marriage and treatment options.

Mg I hope you’re starting to feel better. I tried that tapping thing for anxiety in a 2 week crisis and it took my mind off of it to an extent. Here’s an article that says there is research behind it.
http://www.rogercallahan.com/evidence-depression.php
http://treasuretapping.com/tapping-therapy/


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439353
10/18/18 06:12 PM
10/18/18 06:12 PM
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mgellan Offline OP
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Complete and utter bullcookies. Read this:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/energy-medicine-noise-based-pseudoscience/

I'd believe a respected neuroscientist versus the web site of some guy flogging the therapy. If you think you've researched something, try searching for it on Science Based Medicine or Skeptoid, or even just search for the word and "scam" and you'll bust out of the echo chamber you're in and find objective evaluations. For the vast majority of CAM modalities you've find you can add an S - SCAM.

Mg


M:1990 DD:July2017 In Recovery DS16 DS14
O wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as ithers see us! -- Robert Burns
If you're going through hell, keep going. -- Winston Churchill
Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: NewEveryDay] #439354
10/18/18 06:33 PM
10/18/18 06:33 PM
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mgellan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by NewEveryDay

Here's how to be a discriminating researcher into SCAM modalities.

1. The study referenced in the article appeared in "Medical Acupuncture", a journal by Acupuncturists promoting acupuncture. Not a respectable, referreed scientific journal
2. The Fang 2009 study referenced as "Harvard Medical School" is referenced in this article as "Fang J, Jin Z, Wang Y, et al. The salient characteristics of the central effects of acupuncture needling: Limbic–paralimbic–neocortical network modulation. Hum Brain Mapp. 2009;30(4):1196–1206 [PubMed]" Oh look it's on PubMed. The referenced article is from Human Brain Mapping, which is a reputable journal but the article does NOT describe a ten year study at Harvard.

So two common techniques by pseudo-scientists - make shinola up and publish it in a journal that looks official but it's the newsletter of the organization that promotes the modality, and make shinola up and reference articles from scholarly journals that don't have anything to do with your claims.

It's the same crap as UFOs and Bigfoot. A whole industry of people sucking on the teats of the incredulous population who don't have a clue how to distinguish science from pseudo science.

Ok cue the "Oh it's all a conspiracy by Big Pharma" comments.

Mg




M:1990 DD:July2017 In Recovery DS16 DS14
O wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as ithers see us! -- Robert Burns
If you're going through hell, keep going. -- Winston Churchill
Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439355
10/18/18 06:37 PM
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Ah okay, I see the difference now. I know you were writing because you were hurting earlier and I’m not trying to add to it. Please keep us posted how it goes.


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439356
10/18/18 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mgellan
Complete and utter bullcookies. Read this:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/energy-medicine-noise-based-pseudoscience/

I'd believe a respected neuroscientist versus the web site of some guy flogging the therapy. If you think you've researched something, try searching for it on Science Based Medicine or Skeptoid, or even just search for the word and "scam" and you'll bust out of the echo chamber you're in and find objective evaluations. For the vast majority of CAM modalities you've find you can add an S - SCAM.

Mg


The swing for support of those even in the medical profession is interesting since at some point each science discovery or invention has a starting point in human history. So what did humankind do before that invention or discovery? Yes, the universe and all it's plants and stars still had orbits and existed and it took a while before the science studies properly identified the correct understanding of the benefits of orbits of the Sun, moon and earth, etc. That's just one example.

So science definitely has it's benefits and it's areas of caution. So does other treatments.

MG, we each have our own right to believe as we choose and to advocate for clarity of information. Finding truth isn't always easy in this world that we live in. Understanding it and knowing how to apply is the next challenge.

So is it proper to throw everything into one bag and label it as bad (i.e. scam)? You can and many have but when some of those applications actually help others, why deny it? Because it hasn't happened to you personally? Because we individually might be holding onto prejudices preventing us from expanding our knowledge and experience?

When someone is dealing with a lifelong illness and being told there is no cure, that is the diagnosis for the moment but the illness is lifelong. When a cure or potential cure is found, isn't it worth at least checking into it? Learn and ask proper questions so good decisions can be made? Isn't that reasonable?

jmo,
Orchid


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Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439358
10/18/18 08:36 PM
10/18/18 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mgellan
Originally Posted by whatsupdoc?
Keep being proactive and moving toward your goals. I see you are not settling for same old/same old.

Nope. Every day I say "Is this it? Is this all there is? Is that good enough?" and conclude "Good enough til the kids are gone. It's not worth disrupting my life and theirs for at this point." Not that I'm not going to try to change things for the better, but if it doesn't I'll be moving on once the kids are launched. I want to be admired for the incredible person I am, and have a relationship where someone offers as well as soaks up affection. I think the message at the MC is "Just because you're not cheating and are making me feel safe doesn't mean you're meeting my ENs." Old habits die hard I guess.

Mg



Disclaimer: I am not a doctor or scientist.

This post sounds to me like it could be grief that is being experienced. Perhaps you would be interested in researching DABDA (the 5 stages of grief).

Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: Orchid2] #439359
10/18/18 08:41 PM
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mgellan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Orchid2
The swing for support of those even in the medical profession is interesting since at some point each science discovery or invention has a starting point in human history. So what did humankind do before that invention or discovery?

Died before their first birthday. Or if they survived lived to a ripe old age of 35.

Originally Posted by Orchid2
MG, we each have our own right to believe as we choose and to advocate for clarity of information. Finding truth isn't always easy in this world that we live in. Understanding it and knowing how to apply is the next challenge.

Your right to advocate does not extend to recommending SCAM practices to people who are in need. Telling me that tapping will help me will just earn you a derisive snort. Some other less informed person might actually rely on it til the day they take their own lives. In other words, like your right to swing your arm ends at my nose, so the right for you to espouse your beliefs ends when you're going to cause someone harm.

I can tell however there's little more I can do to educate here so lets drop the discussion before I give up on these boards entirely.

Mg


M:1990 DD:July2017 In Recovery DS16 DS14
O wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as ithers see us! -- Robert Burns
If you're going through hell, keep going. -- Winston Churchill
Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: LivingWell] #439360
10/18/18 08:43 PM
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mgellan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by LivingWell

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor or scientist.

This post sounds to me like it could be grief that is being experienced. Perhaps you would be interested in researching DABDA (the 5 stages of grief).

(sigh) https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/supersurvivors/201707/why-the-five-stages-grief-are-wrong


M:1990 DD:July2017 In Recovery DS16 DS14
O wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as ithers see us! -- Robert Burns
If you're going through hell, keep going. -- Winston Churchill
Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439361
10/18/18 09:00 PM
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So you are positive that it is not any part of grief that is being experienced.

I am wondering about something that has to do with only trusting proven science. In a previous post, it was mentioned that your wife was reading HNHN and that she would be leading both of you through it. On what science is your trust in HNHN based and what makes your wife the best lay person to lead the way through it?

Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439362
10/18/18 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mgellan
Your right to advocate does not extend to recommending SCAM practices to people who are in need. Telling me that tapping will help me will just earn you a derisive snort. Some other less informed person might actually rely on it til the day they take their own lives. In other words, like your right to swing your arm ends at my nose, so the right for you to espouse your beliefs ends when you're going to cause someone harm.

I can tell however there's little more I can do to educate here so lets drop the discussion before I give up on these boards entirely.

Mg


MG,
Ok, I will step away from this discussion since I want to hold onto the respect I have for you as a poster and I don't want your positive helpful posts to others to be hampered.

Take care,
Orchid


Orchid
Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: LivingWell] #439363
10/18/18 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by LivingWell
So you are positive that it is not any part of grief that is being experienced.

I am wondering about something that has to do with only trusting proven science. In a previous post, it was mentioned that your wife was reading HNHN and that she would be leading both of you through it. On what science is your trust in HNHN based and what makes your wife the best lay person to lead the way through it?



I have wondered this too about you MG. Not every effective solution has to have scientific proof .

Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: mgellan] #439364
10/18/18 11:46 PM
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Good luck, God bless.


Consider that we don't have to live with the consequences of our advice in your life. Act according to what you can live with!
Re: Playing The Game of Life [Re: LivingWell] #439365
10/19/18 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by LivingWell
Originally Posted by mgellan
Originally Posted by whatsupdoc?
Keep being proactive and moving toward your goals. I see you are not settling for same old/same old.

Nope. Every day I say "Is this it? Is this all there is? Is that good enough?" and conclude "Good enough til the kids are gone. It's not worth disrupting my life and theirs for at this point." Not that I'm not going to try to change things for the better, but if it doesn't I'll be moving on once the kids are launched. I want to be admired for the incredible person I am, and have a relationship where someone offers as well as soaks up affection. I think the message at the MC is "Just because you're not cheating and are making me feel safe doesn't mean you're meeting my ENs." Old habits die hard I guess.

Mg



Disclaimer: I am not a doctor or scientist.

This post sounds to me like it could be grief that is being experienced. Perhaps you would be interested in researching DABDA (the 5 stages of grief).
I'm not a doctor or scientist, but I have worked side by side with doctors AND scientists for 40 years. I'm here to tell you that your black and white thinking is not reality. And all the scientists and doctors I know will tell you so.

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