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Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437375
07/30/18 11:13 PM
07/30/18 11:13 PM
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Blair Offline
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Thank you for checking in. It is good that you have a plan. Change takes time. smile

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437405
08/01/18 03:48 PM
08/01/18 03:48 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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I was very stressed this morning. Told Mrs H it had nothing to do with her behavior, just work issues and her health issues and DS's mental health issues etc. My cell phone died. My car needs to be repaired.
Was "funny" to watch all the looks run across her face. Then she just said "OK".
It is so much easier to navigate life and our marriage when I simply do not care as much about her reactions. And it isn't even any lonelier. It was far more lonely when I was trying to have sex and getting rejected. Trying to hold her hand and getting rejected. Now I don't ask for much and when I do ask for affection I rarely get rejected.

Last edited by holdingontoit; 08/01/18 03:48 PM.

Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437410
08/01/18 04:29 PM
08/01/18 04:29 PM
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Progress..

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437485
08/07/18 02:36 PM
08/07/18 02:36 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Another incident that I think shows progress.

Mrs H returned late last night from visiting DS. I was asleep when she arrived. This morning she got up early to get ready for work and did not speak with me. Eventually I said "welcome home" in a lighthearted voice. She snapped angrily "I am very mad at you for how you treated me yesterday". eek dunno

Mentally trying to remember what I did that was so awful. I texted her several times during the day yesterday to ask about her flight details. She never replied. Finally she called my cell. I was busy with something important at work so I admit I was somewhat distracted. But I tried my best to pay attention to her. I asked her how DS was. She said they had a great weekend hiking and biking. I said "great, does that mean you and I could do some of those things when you get back?" She said that her hip was feeling much better since she got the cortisone injection, so yes she is now available for outdoor activities. I said "wonderful, because it doesn't feel good to be jealous of your son". Then she arrived at the supermarket to do some grocery shopping for DS and we hung up.

So now I am wondering what is bothering her. My being distracted when she calls me at work does annoy her, but not usually to the extent of sending me to the doghouse afterward. So I asked her what I did that was so terrible. She said that she could not believe I accused her of defecating on me. Me: What? Her: Yesterday you told me that you think I treat you like crap. Me: when? Her: When you complained that I don't hike with you. You accused me of horrible things. Now in my mind I am having a flashback to our years of MC. All the arguments over what actually happened and never agreeing. I am NEVER going back there.

I told her I love her and I don't enjoy when she is upset, but I am never having these pointless arguments over what happened in the past. We remember the conversation differently. She told me that what I said hurt her feelings. I repeated that I don't like causing her to feel bad, but I did not concede that I said what she accused me of saying. She got very upset and said she can't handle these negative emotions at the start of the day and got in her car and left for work.

Back in the MC days I would have been devastated by her leaving in a huff. Today I was partly angry and partly amused. These days I refuse to get sent to the doghouse. She may say "go there" but I no longer listen to her.

I dropped my car off at the repair shop. Walked toward the bus stop to go to work. Realized the bus stop is in front of the supermarket so I went inside and bought some fat free greek yogurt for breakfast. Mrs. H told me that a buttered bagel is not healthy and I need protein for breakfast. So I texted her that I got healthy yogurt for breakfast so I can stick around a long time to annoy her. She texted me back a cute emoji.

So I think that went well. Maybe she expected me to fold up my tent and crumble at her feet when she complained. Maybe she thinks that my asking to go on a hike means she is back in control and has the power in our relationship. Doesn't matter what she expected. What matters is that I stood up to her and remained true to myself in the face of her provocation. And she was fine afterward.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437491
08/07/18 10:23 PM
08/07/18 10:23 PM
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catperson Offline
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Nice improvement!

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437492
08/08/18 04:01 AM
08/08/18 04:01 AM
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That IS improvement! (And way to get a greek yogurt instead a chocolate-covered Bear Claw!)

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437496
08/08/18 01:47 PM
08/08/18 01:47 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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She was cold again last night and this morning. Maybe it is just stress over DS. Maybe it is fear that I am no longer subject to her emotional manipulation.

I was pleasant. Not because I want to earn back her favor. I am at core a pleasant person. No, I just don't allow her moods to affect me anymore.

She made the rules for this marriage. For 20 years I complained and fought to change the rules. Now I have accepted the rules. Now she is the one who doesn't appreciate when her unhappiness seems to be irrelevant to me. It is not irrelevant. I don't like it when she is upset. But she made clear that, in our marriage at least, neither spouse is responsible for trying to do what they can to improve their partner's emotional state. it is up to each of us to manage our emotional state on our own. So I am merely allowing her the privilege of living by the rules she insisted on. And yes, I do get a bit of schaudenfraude satisfaction that, now that the shoe is on the other foot and she is the one coming to me for support, she does not enjoy being on the receiving end of her own prescription.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437499
08/08/18 03:03 PM
08/08/18 03:03 PM
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TC_Manhattan Offline
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My guess is that Mrs. Hold is stressed about your DS.
Give her time and perhaps she will share her concerns, preferably sooner than later.

Anything you can say or do to encourage her sharing?

Hang in there, Hold..

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437500
08/08/18 03:33 PM
08/08/18 03:33 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Yes, I think she is stressed about DS. I am as well.

Anything I can say or do to encourage her sharing? I will ask her what is on her mind. Not if anything is bothering her. Just what is on her mind. We shall see if she decides to open up.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437748
08/16/18 11:53 PM
08/16/18 11:53 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Going away for over a week. Mrs H and I had dinner together which we rarely do on weeknights. Mrs H encouraged me to enjoy the time with DD. I intend to.

Things at work are rocky. I am even more seriously depressed than usual. Asking my doctor to change my meds.

No news on DS. He seems OK on the outside but he seemed OK all this time. No further news from the doctor. Apparently it takes a LONG time to get the procedure approved by insurance. Mrs H is going to visit him next month. I am visiting the month after. And then God willing we will be together for Thanksgiving.

Mrs H and I bicker more than ever. I think it bothers her that I am not under her thumb. When she is prickly to me I am prickly back instead of being submissive. She doesn't like that. Not my problem. Which is sad for the marriage, but that is where we are. A few nights ago she looked at me. Sad look. I asked her what was wrong. She said she did not know what to do. Toward me. I said "you just be you". She said OK but I could see she was disappointed. She knows that her being her will not endear her to me. But she can't bring herself to act differently. That is OK, neither can I. She is starting to see how difficult it is to live with disappointment day after day. She feels guilty for being part of my pain. She feels guilty for not being able to help DS with his pain. I think she even realizes that her not helping me with my pain made it harder for DS to deal with his pain. Sucks to be her. I have sympathy as an intellectual matter but not as an emotional matter.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437750
08/17/18 12:00 AM
08/17/18 12:00 AM
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Orchid2 Online
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Originally Posted by holdingontoit
....... I have sympathy as an intellectual matter but not as an emotional matter.


Interesting observation. I can certainly relate.


Orchid
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437751
08/17/18 12:02 AM
08/17/18 12:02 AM
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She probably has no idea what to do about how she feels.

I'm glad your DS haa stabilized for now. Stay on top of him with the communication. Insurance does take a ling time to approve things. You might have to call the doctor and insurance every 3-4 days.

Are you feeling overwhelmed and exhausted from handling all of the extra stress? Could that be contributing to your depression feelings?

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437755
08/17/18 01:47 PM
08/17/18 01:47 PM
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Keep on keeping on, Hold.

Much of your bickering is probably a stress response from all the stuff you've got at work and the stress from DS.

Usually, added external pressures tend to exacerbate old behavioral patterns.
Don't blame Mrs. Hold. Don't blame yourself.

Just ride the wave for now...

Oh, and sending my best hopes for an expedient positive resolution for your crises.

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437756
08/17/18 07:20 PM
08/17/18 07:20 PM
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^^^What they both said.^^^

Hang in there brother. Weather the storm. It will pass.

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437801
08/19/18 03:59 AM
08/19/18 03:59 AM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Heard from the doctor yesterday. DS is not following up on getting the treatment procedure approved. So now we have to figure out how to nudge him in that direction without breaking the only connections that he says hold him back form committing suicide. I think this is on me because I fear Mrs H cannot address it with the necessary nuance and with a real time understanding of how her words might affect DS. She will be the first to say she often puts her foot in her mouth when discussing her feelings toward her loved ones. Her reflexive need to protect herself at all costs often kicks in and pushes her to say things she regrets. We cannot afford that here.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437804
08/19/18 04:34 AM
08/19/18 04:34 AM
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You get to follow up with DS then. It won't be easy, but you will be able to do it.

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #437806
08/19/18 11:50 AM
08/19/18 11:50 AM
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Is it something that given the circumstances you can work with his insurance to get approved on his behalf? The identification information they ask before they talk to you, you’ll have. It may be an intimidating part that could scare him off.


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #438184
08/30/18 12:12 PM
08/30/18 12:12 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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DS is not following up on his treatments and not returning my calls. Argh! He spoke to Mrs H yesterday, but she does not discuss treatment. Hopefully just a bump in the road. I got this.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #438186
08/30/18 05:13 PM
08/30/18 05:13 PM
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Do you have 'rights' to talk to his therapist?

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #438191
08/31/18 12:00 AM
08/31/18 12:00 AM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Yes, DS signed a HIPAA release and we have received emails from DS's therapist. That is how I know DS has not followed up with his treatment. Next step is to communicate with DS and find out why he has not moved forward.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #438214
09/01/18 01:24 AM
09/01/18 01:24 AM
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I'm so sorry this situation has not improved. You may have to start seeking out alternative steps. What does his therapist suggest as possible things that you can do? I know just being supportive is a big one.

I understand his depression may sit on him and be as painful as any physical malady.


Me: 50
XH: 13 - well, does emotional age count?
DD1: 24
DD2: 20
30 year partnership...

M: Dec, 1987
Bomb: May 12, 2014
D: Oct, 2015
Ratz.
I am learning how to surf!
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #438297
09/04/18 02:18 PM
09/04/18 02:18 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Spoke to DS last night for the first time in several weeks. He had been ducking my call. I asked him about the treatment. Clear he has no intention of pursuing it. Mrs H going out there this weekend. I go out next month. Then we all converge on the grandparents for Thanksgiving.

I know we are showing our love but love is not enough. He wants to die notwithstanding our love. Not sure how to motivate him to try to reduce the pain. Not sure how I give him hope that reducing the pain is possible.

I wrote to my doctor and asked for a new med in a family of meds I have never tried before. I need to lead by example/


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #438303
09/04/18 11:45 PM
09/04/18 11:45 PM
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It is a great idea to write for your doctor's advice also.

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Blair] #438309
09/05/18 05:05 PM
09/05/18 05:05 PM
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Utah
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Hold - how much extra-curricular reading/audible-books listening?

There are two books I would recommend in this order (they are both on Audible too):
The Hacking of the American Mind by Robert Lustig
The Mind Gut Connection by Emeran Mayer

The reason I'd suggest these, is how the diet and stress effect the mind through the gut. You might recall K-man's family has dealt with depression and gut problems for generations. My own family has it's own brand of crazy.

I'm appalled that a therapist would stick such a catastrophic label on a client on the first appointment without any testing. Fire that guy. That's reminiscent of what happened to K-man. I have no respect for that kind of so-called professional.


Consider that we don't have to live with the consequences of our advice in your life. Act according to what you can live with!
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #438310
09/05/18 05:57 PM
09/05/18 05:57 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Kayla: Thanks for the suggestions. Mrs. H is a big reader and likes to send books. She has sent me 2 self-help books recently. I imagine she will like the idea of sending a couple of books to DS.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
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