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Scarcity #420777
03/27/17 04:08 PM
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SmilingWife Offline OP
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I can't figure out how to link it but I just listened to an NPR podcast on Hidden Brain called 'tunnel vision '.

Very interesting and goes nicely with the theory of emotional needs and how we are affected by not having what we need most.

I have been aware of how my mind starts to shift when Dh is out of work.....I get more and more irritable and I find that I become obsessed with the lack of job. Even as of course Dh works side jobs and we continue to pay bills and eat.....I can't think of anything except the lack of a job. It definitely begins to affect my feelings for my husband and I know people think that is terrible....like he is only good for a paycheck....but that isn't it . He is good for many things,,..I love him so much and he is a great husband and a really good godly man.

But once there is no job everything is clouded by my thoughts of it.

I imagine it feels similar to those who live in SSMs.

I remember when I was married to xh and he was so lacking in so many ways.....but when I filled out the EN sheets I put that financial support was a medium need.....I knew it was important but it didn't seem huge. Not like affection or family commitment because I was so starved for those. Thing is that is the one thing xh did well. He worked the same job and he did really well there.

Intellectually I know Dh has lost almost every job he has lost due to things beyond his control and that in some ways xh lucked out with his job situation. I know this....but I can't seem to shake the terror and irritation that grips me when things don't seem stable to me.

I believe I am the one with the problem here. Life is not stable for anyone really. And I have all I need materially. And I certainly don't want my cheating mean xh back just because he has had the same job for 20 years. That is repulsive and laughable. So I also,don't want to damage my relationship with my Dh by ragging on him and by being unkind to him when he is out of work.


Last edited by SmilingWife; 03/27/17 04:10 PM.
Re: Scarcity [Re: SmilingWife] #420780
03/27/17 04:21 PM
03/27/17 04:21 PM
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SW: Did your parents struggle financially? If so, did you see or hear them discussing their struggles?

Re: Scarcity [Re: Oblivious2678] #420782
03/27/17 04:38 PM
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SmilingWife Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Oblivious2678
SW: Did your parents struggle financially? If so, did you see or hear them discussing their struggles?


Oh yes. Mom was single from the time I was 7 on ( she is married now to a wonderful man but that happened long after we left home)

We always had food. We never had a utility cut off. My mom is well known and admired for her ability to raise us with next to no money. She did not keep any of it secret from me. She made a list of bills to be paid and a list of the paycheck coming. And showed me how we would make it through the month. I still pay my own bills the same way.

Maybe she told me too much. Shrug. She rarely seemed stressed about it. But my personality is much more anxious in general.

Re: Scarcity [Re: SmilingWife] #420785
03/27/17 05:38 PM
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I think that is why you are who you are today. Nothing wrong with it, but definitely need to be conscious of how you react to your irritability.

I remember at a young age hearing my parents discussing/arguing about finances. I don't recall specifics, but it was the root for me opening my own savings account at age 8. I constantly saved my money. To this day I am still practical and have a difficult time spending my money on my wants.

Re: Scarcity [Re: SmilingWife] #420786
03/27/17 05:56 PM
03/27/17 05:56 PM
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SW, I was married to someone who worked in a field that was feast or famine. The marriages where there were expectations of how much "feast" there should be vs how much "famine" would be tolerated suffered much more than the marriages where it was accepted that while there were indicators of how long periods of feast and famine might be, there were never any guarantees and things could change on a dime.

The trick was to enjoy the feast times while also saving for the famine that would undoubtedly come. Cost of living took into consideration that famines could be quite long at times. I worked outside the home when it was needed and I was able.

There was always enough for what I considered to be necessities.

SW, you've mentioned before that you want your money to go for fun and extras. That might not be realistic if Dh views your working outside the home as relieving some of his sole breadwinner responsibility. Sitting down and discussing expectations as well as what is willing to be done under various circumstances can go a long way to relieving the financial stress during a famine.

SW, I know how rattling it can be to feel like there's not enough. I get that way about having gas in my car. It wouldn't matter if I had a thousand dollars in cash in a drawer; I would be anxious and have a hard time sleeping if my car was on empty. To accomodate myself, I don't let it get below a quarter tank. If I couldn't afford more than a quarter tank of gas then I couldn't afford to drive for that time either.

Everyone has their thing. Mine's having a car at the ready. What's yours? What is Dh's? When you find the answers to those questions it can lead right into what you need in order to start managing the anxiety that comes when Dh is between jobs.

Re: Scarcity [Re: LivingWell] #420787
03/27/17 06:13 PM
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I was going to mention something like what LW is saying here. I find that I have a "scarcity" mindset about a lot of things if I'm not able to provide them for myself.

Whenever I have to rely on someone else entirely for something, I find I can get sort of titchy about the ebb and flow of it. It comes from a lack of resilience in that area. I don't know what will become of me if my "supply" is cut off. And that drives up anxiety no matter what I do. I don't have any control, and I don't have any recourse if the worst happens. It's a no win situation to be in. Of course you feel lousy!

So the trick is to build yourself some control and resilience! Control of course only comes by limiting your reliance on someone else. There's no other way. You have to get your own whatever, in order to control it.

But there are other paths to resilience... I think.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: Scarcity [Re: LivingWell] #420789
03/27/17 06:35 PM
03/27/17 06:35 PM
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SmilingWife Offline OP
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Thanks LW. When I took this job dh was making at the lower end of his potential but it was a low stress job in town. We were making it ok, but we thought a few extra dollars could help with this house remodel/fixer we bought. Almost immediately after I took my job he lost his. And we have been on a roller coaster ever since. He had a good job for 1 1/2 years...just as we relaxed and booked a big expensive vacation he lost it. And he has been laid off since last June. The same day that dss came to live with us.

So my job has mostly gone to surviving, not extras. But we have survived. We aren't behind and even managed to go on that vacation last summer.

I lose my cs in 14 months. I have been trying really hard to put that money back and not spend it at all. And I am also going continue building up our savings.

Details. The real issue is our difference in dealing with these normal life events. I feel frantic and he seems meh, no big deal.

Re: Scarcity [Re: Miranda] #420790
03/27/17 06:40 PM
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SmilingWife Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Miranda
I was going to mention something like what LW is saying here. I find that I have a "scarcity" mindset about a lot of things if I'm not able to provide them for myself.

Whenever I have to rely on someone else entirely for something, I find I can get sort of titchy about the ebb and flow of it. It comes from a lack of resilience in that area. I don't know what will become of me if my "supply" is cut off. And that drives up anxiety no matter what I do. I don't have any control, and I don't have any recourse if the worst happens. It's a no win situation to be in. Of course you feel lousy!

So the trick is to build yourself some control and resilience! Control of course only comes by limiting your reliance on someone else. There's no other way. You have to get your own whatever, in order to control it.

But there are other paths to resilience... I think.


My XH accused me of trying to control the money too much. And I brought that 'lesson' into this marriage and I started out not controlling and letting whatever happen. Since last summer when he lost his job I have been a nazi about money. I don't give dh access to what I make because I at least know I have enough to feed my kids. I tell him 'We need X amount in the bank by the first so I can pay bills.' I leave enough extra for him to buy gas for his truck, but there is nothing left for him to blow.

Last night I told ds I had transferred money to his account (reimbursement for fuel) Dh said, "I wish I had someone to transfer money to my account."

So I know resentment is being built on some level. But I figure if I do it his way *I* am resentful and the bills don't get paid. This way he might be resentful but the bills are paid and we keep eating.

Re: Scarcity [Re: SmilingWife] #420794
03/27/17 07:01 PM
03/27/17 07:01 PM
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So it is OK for him build up resentment toward you, but not OK for you ever feel any resentment toward him?

Every so often you mention that your DH sometimes feels like he is a second class citizen in SW's house. Well, maybe he has reason to feel that way.

Not saying your financial fears aren't real. Or powerful. Or worth addressing. Just saying that you are not treating him as an equal partner in this marriage. That is a risky strategy if you want him to stay with you long term.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Scarcity [Re: holdingontoit] #420799
03/27/17 08:38 PM
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SmilingWife Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
So it is OK for him build up resentment toward you, but not OK for you ever feel any resentment toward him?

Every so often you mention that your DH sometimes feels like he is a second class citizen in SW's house. Well, maybe he has reason to feel that way.

Not saying your financial fears aren't real. Or powerful. Or worth addressing. Just saying that you are not treating him as an equal partner in this marriage. That is a risky strategy if you want him to stay with you long term.


Well I prefer neither of us have resentment toward the other. Hopefully this job will be long term and he and I will come to an agreement on how to spend our money.

Re: Scarcity [Re: SmilingWife] #420804
03/27/17 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: SmilingWife
Well I prefer neither of us have resentment toward the other. Hopefully this job will be long term and he and I will come to an agreement on how to spend our money.


When your preference includes the cooperation of others, that is where the control factor goes out the window. Y? Because it depends on how much cooperation there is from the other side(s).

So you can contribute what is within your control and then what?

Re: Scarcity [Re: Orchid2] #420806
03/27/17 11:57 PM
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SmilingWife Offline OP
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Well orchid not sure what you mean. Lol.

We aren't completely incompatible. I have a way of doing things with bills and money and he doesn't balk too much.

Re: Scarcity [Re: SmilingWife] #420808
03/28/17 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted By: SmilingWife
Well orchid not sure what you mean. Lol.

We aren't completely incompatible. I have a way of doing things with bills and money and he doesn't balk too much.


Not saying you are incompatible. Saying that you have your preferences that require things happen that are not within your control.

Need to keep that as a consideration factor as you set your preferences.

So if he doesn't balk, is it fair to assume he is ok or not? Some persons keep silent when they are not sure, don't care, don't have an opinion, etc. Doesn't mean they agree or like it.

If the other person 'assumes' no input means agreement and if that is truly not the case, then what happens over time when it becomes evident that there isn't an agreement?

Example:

Spouse 1: You are leaving me? Why?

Spouse 2: Because I don't like the way you fix the bed.

Spouse 1: I thought you like me fixing the bed each morning. You run out of the room and leave me to fix the bed.

Spouse 2: I run out of the room because I don't know how to fix the bed and lived in fear of you forcing me to do it like you do and I can't.

Spouse 1: Why didn't you tell me? It's been 25 years.

Spouse 2: Because I didn't want to appear stupid. Anyways, I found someone else who doesn't care if the bed stays all messed up. I'm going away to be with her.

Spouse 1: Her? Who is she?

Spouse 2: The dog, I built an extra room in her dog house, complete with it's own bathroom and man cave. She won't mind........her bed is next to mine and we both like to curl up in our own beds.

Spouse 1: Hmmmmph.......

Re: Scarcity [Re: Orchid2] #420827
03/28/17 01:53 PM
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SmilingWife Offline OP
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The podcast was very interesting. A few of the things it spoke of were poverty and loneliness.

Society tends to think poor people are poor because they make bad decisions....often they make bad decisions because they are poor and they have the tunnel vision that comes with scarcity.

Same with loneliness. Lonely people begin to feel desperate for friends and then try too hard and appear socially awkward.

When we are scarce of a thing we develop tunnel vision and can't do anything well.

And I find it is true in regards to my husband not having a job. It becomes all I can think of. My mind is rapidly and constantly thinking of ways to cut back, things to sell, etc. I am thinking of the future and how it might be and becoming irritated at my life. And then when he gets a job I feel like the heavens have opened up and everything is going to be ok. (like that song, 'if we can make it through December, everything's gonna be alright come summer time.')

What I want is to stop that high and low feeling. I want to take the setbacks as they come and continue to enjoy the good things about my life.


Last edited by SmilingWife; 03/28/17 02:42 PM.
Re: Scarcity [Re: SmilingWife] #420830
03/28/17 02:41 PM
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That's what I'm talking about when I say "resilience" SW.

There's got to be a way for you to cultivate the feeling that you're going to be okay no matter what happens. To quell that horrible vulnerability that lurks inside you on this.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: Scarcity [Re: Miranda] #420831
03/28/17 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Miranda
That's what I'm talking about when I say "resilience" SW.

There's got to be a way for you to cultivate the feeling that you're going to be okay no matter what happens. To quell that horrible vulnerability that lurks inside you on this.


As you know I am a religious person. I do have faith. We just had a day long religious event on the topic of faith and how to cultivate it and trust that we will be ok.

And my mom.....she is constantly telling me to stop panicking. She doesn't understand why I am so freaked out all of the time about things.

I have had flashes of 'getting it.' Especially everytime it works out and things are ok...I think, 'oh duh, see, it always works out.'

I am better. I just want to as you say quell it more.

Re: Scarcity [Re: SmilingWife] #420841
03/28/17 05:57 PM
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Phone died and I lost my post. I'll take it as a sign that what I wrote wouldn't have been helpful, lol.

I will say this....

You mention faith. My faith tells me that I will always have what I need. And I do. Even after a drastic reduction in household income due to divorce and not being able to work full time.

Sometimes what I need are opportunities to learn new things so that I will continue to have what I need. I would say that I currently live a life of abundance. Another person might not experience my circumstances in the same way or view it the same way that I do..... because people can be very different in what they hold dear and what they need.

It posted before I was done....

That's why I encourage you to find out what is most important to you at this point in your life. Dh's work history might be providing for you in ways that you're not aware of yet. I find those kinds of things fascinating when I have enough hindsight to recognize it.

Last edited by LivingWell; 03/28/17 06:09 PM.
Re: Scarcity [Re: LivingWell] #420843
03/28/17 06:01 PM
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LW,

yes, sometimes what we need isn't "more" but the opportunity step outside of what is comfortable, and to go somewhere we weren't expecting to go.

Being in a crappy job where I have not gotten a raise in THREE years? It led me to do something that's going to take me where I need to go! Is it horrible to be in the job I am now? Of course it is.. Is it leading me to somewhere I'm supposed to be? I think it is.

Sometimes we rise from the ashes of something we think is horrible, to find ourselves somewhere we absolutely ARE supposed to be, and never would have found.

What you have to be able to do is count on yourself to land on your feet.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: Scarcity [Re: Miranda] #420844
03/28/17 06:17 PM
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Miranda, what you got from that job (besides the paycheck) might not provide what it used to. I'm thrilled for you that one of the benefits that you'll reap from the personal work you've been doing is that you're moving in a direction that is exciting and fulfillling for you. I'm looking forward to reading as much of it as you have time to post. smile

Re: Scarcity [Re: LivingWell] #420858
03/29/17 02:52 AM
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In my marriage, I have been the one who thinks in terms of "we have enough", and my husband has been one who thinks in terms of "OMG disaster is a breath away."

Anytime I have started to relax into a future that didn't scare the bejesus out of me, he destroyed that.

It took me a really long time (like decades) before I realized that he was offloading his anxiety about the future on me. Once I started agreeing with him and saying we need to sell the house and the kids and the dogs and I need to find a job doing SOMETHING IMMEDIATELY (I am 56 and qualified for nothing) he stopped ..... over a really long period of time. Selling the house shuts him up 100% of the time.

I think it is a REALLY bad plan for these two types of people to marry one another.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Scarcity [Re: LadyGrey] #420864
03/29/17 04:52 AM
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LG,

I'll be 60 later this year. I started my own business back in 2013 when I was 55.

Sharing that piece of info so you can see that being in your 50's isn't the end, for some of us it's a new start.

Add to that, last month son & I moved out on our own. Now that's kinda scary but we are doing ok.

If I can do this, so can you (trying new things) and a bunch of others. wink

Orchid

Re: Scarcity [Re: Orchid2] #420867
03/29/17 11:56 AM
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LG, what effect, if any, did it have on your kids?

Re: Scarcity [Re: LivingWell] #420870
03/29/17 01:56 PM
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I think I offload my anxiety on dh. smile I am consciously working to NOT do that. It is part of why I am exploring this scarcity thing....I really really want to feel less insecure in my life.

And LG you are more than qualified to do many things...I mean you have a law degree for Pete's Sake...but I know you know that and I don't think you really need to go back to work anyway.

Re: Scarcity [Re: SmilingWife] #420874
03/29/17 02:51 PM
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I'm 49 and going back to school to CHANGE CAREERS!

It's never too late. Not ever. If you are willing to dare greatly you can fly.

But I think SW is right. I don't think going back to work is the answer you are looking for. If it is, you could find a way to contribute


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: Scarcity [Re: Miranda] #420876
03/29/17 03:23 PM
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Orchid my word I thought you were 35 when I saw you online! I thought you just had your son very young LOL.


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
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