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Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: catperson] #411366
06/23/16 02:53 PM
06/23/16 02:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,611
wiser_now Offline
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I'm so sorry, Ally!

You said:
Quote:
I've been told by staff all of residency I'm not confident/ good enough.


What "they" say only matters if you believe them, especially when it comes to your confidence... and you seem to.

You have so many people supporting you and offering encouragement, yet you hear the negative. I completely understand and share this personality trait. Well, I *did* until I decided to change it... and it wasn't easy!

If medicine is what you're meant to do, I hope you will find a niche to grow in... and I'm not talking about sales rep territory. That's my domain, actually. smile

You are down so low that you aren't seeing clearly. I think you're exhausted. Nobody thinks straight under those circumstances.

I will continue to hope that you will be pleasantly surprised by your test results. Be sure to let us know. You have a lot of people here who care!


A happy marriage is a long conversation which always seems too short. --Andre Maurois

Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: AllyCat] #411371
06/23/16 04:02 PM
06/23/16 04:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 106
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Sonnambula Offline
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Sonnambula  Offline
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Posts: 106
Assuming that you did indeed fail the exam - and are really absolutely totŕlly sure that this is the case? - might there be someone who could go over the exam with you and explore the reasons why? A kind of post mortem?

Also, you desperately need help to counteract your continuous and deep-set negative thinking, a kind of counsellor or even some sort of a life coach type person or a mentor.

You have struggled with this seemingly on your own. I am hoping some structured professional help might give you some clarity and help you assess your options.

By the way, is your husband with you?

Thinking of you and hoping for a good outcome!

Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: Sonnambula] #411375
06/23/16 05:28 PM
06/23/16 05:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 20,616
B
believer Offline
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believer  Offline
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B
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 20,616
Negative thinking happens when a person goes through a long period of having negative things happen.

I went through about a 5 year period like that, and even though I had a lot of support from friends and family, I started always waiting for the other shoe to fall.

My husband, who had worked steadily for 15 years was out of work for two, right after my boys were born. We went through our savings, and luckily I had scrimped to pay his health insurance.

The first day he went back to work he had heart problems. He had angioplasty which turned into emergency heart surgery, then a long recovery period. The bad luck just seemed to go on and on forever.

You've had FOO issues, then met your husband worked hard went to school for years with little time for fun. Then your husband cheated (and that alone takes years to recover from), then got hooked up with this crew who would drive anyone into negative thinking.

I can't even imagine going through the disrespect, loneliness, yelling and berating, not being given a chance because they think you don't have confidence, and all the game playing at the end.

So, yeah, I would certainly have negative thinking.

Also, stereotyping may be involved. I've always felt that I didn't do that at all. My Canadian roommate has a Asian-American girlfriend that looks like a little doll, and young, about 20.

She's been in my home a lot, and I've spent hours talking to her. She even visits when he isn't around. She's friendly, sweet, and quiet. I thought she was a receptionist at the bio-tech company where he works. Silly me.

I bought her a book on taking a cruise to Antarctica because I knew she is going there in November. Imagine my shock to find out she is a research scientist with a PhD, has done years of post-doc studies, and one of the most respected in her field. She's going to Antarctica to do research for 6 months.

I did think that Antarctica was a strange place to take a cruise, but was absolutely gobsmacked because of the stupid assumptions I made.


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: believer] #411376
06/23/16 05:33 PM
06/23/16 05:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 13,405
midwest
Miranda Offline
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Miranda  Offline
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Posts: 13,405
midwest
Wow, B....

Just wow. I can't imagine how you must have felt. It sucks when we get caught with our metaphorical pants down.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: AllyCat] #411377
06/23/16 05:36 PM
06/23/16 05:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,611
The Dark Side of the Moon
AntigoneRisen Offline
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AntigoneRisen  Offline
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The Dark Side of the Moon
Ally,

I'm sorry to confirm that the world isn't "fair" and often we don't get the results we desire.

I'm here to tell you that the key to success isn't so much your knowledge or ability. Those who succeed are those who are resilient. Everyone experiences setbacks. Major setbacks. It's those that keep on going and find a way that succeed. In other words, we all get knocked down. Those that get what they want pick themselves back up and keep going.

In my experience opportunity doesn't knock. You have to go out, hunt that B down, and wrestle it to the ground. smile

In that vein, what are you doing to pick yourself back up?

~AR


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: AntigoneRisen] #411381
06/23/16 06:05 PM
06/23/16 06:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,344
AllyCat Offline OP
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AllyCat  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,344
Well...

Antigone,

I think I'm plenty resilient....I've gotten up many, many times. I wasn't accepted into medical school the first shot. Wasn't accepted in residency in first shot, and failed 2 courses in cegep (equivalent of last year of high school) and failed a whole semester in medical school! Then failing the licensing exam last year. There's a theme here. I fail.... a lot!

And then the nightmare of residency, of being told over, and over to quit. It was like beating a dead drum!

Compare to a male resident who was already a CERTIFIED general surgeon in Brazil. They told him *once* he wasn't good enough for cardiac surgery, so he quit and transferred to family medicine!!!

In the post mortem, I said to him "Why would you do this? Who cares what they think????"...but he was too devestated by being criticized.

Here's the thing. I've come to the point. Pros and cons, where for me,the suffering is no longer worth the pay-off. I've always wanted to be a doctor. But I can't stomach 4 years to be a family doctor. You have to WANT the end result to embark. I don't want the end result.

As to what I'm doing? Well there were people coming to visit the condo. And I'm looking for jobs. Not much else to do.

Son,

I want to tell you that I *could pass* I want to believe that with all my heart. Except everytime I even think about the exam, I cry. Ask Miranda.....all she hears is "I'm crying" or "I've been crying" Because I can't pass when it was WORST then last year. The exam literally was about 20% worst! If I didn't pass last year, there's no reason to think differently. They didn't kick me out of the room, they didn't ask me questions I didn't know, and they didn't cut me off when I was describing surgical procedures!

Beliver, wiser

My life has had a lot of negativity in it. That being said, I don't think this is the reason for the failures. I just think I needed more exposure to pacemakers. I mean it all comes down to that.

Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: AllyCat] #411385
06/23/16 07:44 PM
06/23/16 07:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 20,616
B
believer Offline
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believer  Offline
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B
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 20,616
Ally - My sister went to school for 4 years and got a teaching certificate. It didn't work out for her; she never actually taught. Then she went back to get an MS in biology. She never worked in biology. She had her first baby at 35, then decided to become an attorney. She started Harvard when she was 42.

She's been a partner in a law firm since shortly after graduation and absolutely loves her job.

You are still very young, even if you don't feel like it. You could stay home for a year, have a baby, raise cats, or whatever you choose to do. Then you can retake the test, or not. It would give you a chance to recoup and relax.

The rural FM sounds like heaven to me, but if it's something you wouldn't enjoy or would find impossible to do, I understand.

Here's part of what they do for those here who don't know -

"Approximately 80% of Canadians live in urban areas, while the other 20% are distributed in rural communities throughout the vast country (the second largest in the world by area, after Russia).

Family Physicians who choose to practice in rural areas can look forward to exciting opportunities, as they may be the only permanent physicians there (specialists may only be available on certain days or in a neighboring community). Rural Family physicians may do all the deliveries, work in the ER, assist in surgeries, and act as hospitalists. The Family Physician may be the first physician to assess and treat a trauma victim, and the physician leading a resuscitation in the ICU. These activities are not thought of as being part of bread-and-butter urban Family Medicine, but they are certainly not unexpected for a Family Physician practicing in rural Canada."

http://futureoffamilymedicine.blogspot.com/2013/04/family-medicine-in-canada.html


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: believer] #411392
06/23/16 08:14 PM
06/23/16 08:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,344
AllyCat Offline OP
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AllyCat  Offline OP
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Believer,

I've rotated in family medicine, both rural and otherwise. Some people enjoy it, but you usually know RIGHT away if your medical or surgical. It's A or B. And then there's the in between that end up in anesthesia or emergency medicine. It's just not for me. I already know that. If I did family medicine, I'd most likely engage in doing Botox shots all day and cashing a pay check. Quebec puts a strong emphasis on family doctors. We actually have very few real emergency trained doctors, it's family doctors in the ER. I despised my emergency rotation, was suicidal during my family medicine rotation. Hated the obstetrics they do. Refuse to do the gynecological part they do. Freaked out over the thought of having to interact with a child for the peds.

And I practically had a breakdown with every patient that came in with a cold. Because really... I had no idea how to handle it. Not to mention the ridiculous guilt that comes with people waiting 3-4 hours to see you... And you saying "it's a cold"

I literally cannot mentally cope with that. Just thinking about it... No. No. No.

It's not for me.

And Botox? Well it's an option. I won't be changing any lives. But plenty of people do things to earn a living.

It's different things for different people. My sister can't stand sick people. She's a hospitalist and as soon as a patient is *mildly sick* transfers them out so she doesn't have to deal with it.

My life? Send me the sickest, patient that is crashing and a step away from death. I'm very acute care/ cardiac surgery/ catastrophe. It's completely different states of view.

My sister thinks an IV is *invasive*

I think opening a chest in the ICU is normal.

The problem is, I've spent 7 years in the most aggressive, invasive specialty. And to cope with one of the least aggressive specialties. I argue only psychiatry and dermatology are on par with the amount of excitement (an unfortunately.. Fulfillment it would bring me)... It's also the type of care I could or could not offer. In cardiac surgery, you can put people on ECMO, install a mechanical heart... At the very limit of what science can do to keep you alive. As a family doctor, faced with a sick patient, what can I do? Transfer them to a hospital. You're having a myocardial infarction? Oh. Let me refer you to the ER. You have a wound infection? Let me refer you to ER. Oh. You need 2 stictches. Yes I can do that. Oh... They are on your forehead? Let me refer you. It was an extremely frustrating and annoying rotation.

Even made worst by the fact that I WILL have the medical knowledge. And skills. And have zero space to use them.

Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: AllyCat] #411395
06/23/16 08:56 PM
06/23/16 08:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 106
S
Sonnambula Offline
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Sonnambula  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 106
Have you thought about geriatric medicine?

Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: Sonnambula] #411397
06/23/16 09:16 PM
06/23/16 09:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 20,616
B
believer Offline
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believer  Offline
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B
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 20,616
That probably doesn't have enough surgery in it for Ally.

Looking at the forums re changing specialties, it seems there were a number that thought they'd like surgery, but hated everything about it. They wanted to switch to IM, EM, or FM.

Surgeons seem to love to be in the OR for hours and can hardly wait to get back there for more.

It leaves me cold.


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: believer] #411399
06/23/16 09:37 PM
06/23/16 09:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,381
TX
CajunRose Offline
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CajunRose  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,381
TX
There is always research, or related fields. Medical law. Healthcare Informatics. Robotics for healthcare. Teaching.

I will keep my fingers crossed that you will still pass, but even if you don't, there are many, many options for you.


Current spouse: Night. D10, D9, S7

About me

You can't direct the wind, but you can adjust your sails.

http://www.divorcedmomfinances.com
Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: CajunRose] #411400
06/23/16 09:53 PM
06/23/16 09:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 6,421
whatsupdoc? Offline
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whatsupdoc?  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 6,421
No advice but lots of positive thoughts going out to you.


Me: 50
XH: 13 - well, does emotional age count?
DD1: 24
DD2: 20
30 year partnership...

M: Dec, 1987
Bomb: May 12, 2014
D: Oct, 2015
Ratz.
I am learning how to surf!
Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: whatsupdoc?] #411402
06/23/16 09:55 PM
06/23/16 09:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,678
SoCal
Chrysalis Offline
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Chrysalis  Offline
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Posts: 5,678
SoCal
Ally, when do the results come in?


Chrysalis
Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: Chrysalis] #411412
06/24/16 01:45 AM
06/24/16 01:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,344
AllyCat Offline OP
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AllyCat  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,344
I'm on call in the ICU. My last call in Quebec. I will really miss taking care of patients. Despite hours and hours of crying, and doing nothing except lying in bed (well I did clean the condo...) had two visits, but no takers.....


I was just really happy to go to work... Because, well that's what I love to do right?

The exam results come in June 30th.

Today I spoke to the surgeon who is on the committee (he makes the exam) I told him the pacemaker question was crap, and about the issues I had during the exam. I was really angry.

He said to me "the examiner was a bit strange to focus on those areas... Totally not related to cardiac surgery... And not focus on the actual question"

Which sadly enough, I did know VERY well. And would easily have passed the exam if we had stayed on track.

He actually makes the questions. But he defended it by saying "oh i think the oral was well done in general"

JERK.

He just admitted that my examiner went off track.

Anyways. It doesn't matter. Doesn't change anything.

Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: AllyCat] #411417
06/24/16 04:19 PM
06/24/16 04:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 20,616
B
believer Offline
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believer  Offline
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B
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 20,616
How did last night go, Ally?

And when are you leaving that place?


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: believer] #411453
06/27/16 11:52 AM
06/27/16 11:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,344
AllyCat Offline OP
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AllyCat  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,344
Believer,

I have two more days in the OR. Right now I've discovered that I can watch "The Good Wife".... TV show, nearly all day and all night. I've never seen it, so it gives me 5 seasons of countless shows. It's at least a distraction that lets me get through the next few days.

I'm sad.

I get anxious.

I get panic attacks.

I haven't made any concrete decisions on my future. Only to say that I need to regroup. It's been a very hard few days.

I cry a lot.

Thankfully I only work 2 days this week. Or I would be able to handle it.

I think one of the things that is scaring me the most is checking the result and seeing "unsuccessful" in large bold letters. It's just I saw it last year, and it's traumatizing to me. The failing... Well I'm mentally prepared to fail. But somehow seeing those words is causing me to feel quite sick and scared on a daily basis.

Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: AllyCat] #411455
06/27/16 01:02 PM
06/27/16 01:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,539
B
Blair Offline
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Blair  Offline
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B
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,539
There is nothing you can do to change the result right now.

Compartmentalize that part for your brain so that you are ready to handle it. Make a plan for either way. Make a plan for what happens if it says Success. Then make a plan for Unsuccessful so that you know what your options are. You will always have options. Sometimes those options are hard to see from our perspective. You have many here who are happy to help brainstorm options for you if you would like that.

Sending happy thoughts and hugs your way.

Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: Blair] #411474
06/27/16 09:59 PM
06/27/16 09:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 20,616
B
believer Offline
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believer  Offline
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B
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 20,616
I suggest you see a doc for meds for the panic attacks, Ally. Yes, they are situational, but your situation has been going on for over a year, and it's a shame that you are sad, depressed and spending so much time watching "The Good Wife", though I enjoy it, too.

You've spent years working on getting your dream career, have what it takes to be a great physician, and it's just that dratted test in the way. It makes me very angry, but your time and work will not be wasted.

I hover between praying for a miracle, and hoping everyone else failed the test. I know that wouldn't be fair either.


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: believer] #411481
06/28/16 12:02 AM
06/28/16 12:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 6,421
whatsupdoc? Offline
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whatsupdoc?  Offline
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Posts: 6,421
No advice, just positive thoughts...

>also...
Actually, I read all 5 books of Game of Thrones.. once you slog 1/2 way through the fist book, it gets way easier to read and it goes really fast. It kept me from panicking out for about 2 weeks -

I don't even like fantasy fiction - but this was very good.


Me: 50
XH: 13 - well, does emotional age count?
DD1: 24
DD2: 20
30 year partnership...

M: Dec, 1987
Bomb: May 12, 2014
D: Oct, 2015
Ratz.
I am learning how to surf!
Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: whatsupdoc?] #411537
06/29/16 02:11 AM
06/29/16 02:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 20,616
B
believer Offline
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believer  Offline
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B
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 20,616
How is it going, Ally? What days are you working this week, and how are they going?


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: believer] #411560
06/29/16 03:10 PM
06/29/16 03:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,344
AllyCat Offline OP
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AllyCat  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,344
Well. I was supposed to be working this week, but they took me off the schedule. So I'm home. Very down. Results come out tomorrow. So it will be definitive tomorrow. I haven't made any progress on the future or possible jobs. But I think I need some time. It's only been 1 week since the exam.
So I need time to adjust. And make new expectations.

I feel sick in my stomach when I think about the future... But there's nothing to be done.

Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: AllyCat] #411562
06/29/16 03:17 PM
06/29/16 03:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,381
TX
CajunRose Offline
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CajunRose  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,381
TX
For today, don't think about it.

Pamper yourself in any way that works for you - bubble baths, a run, a day of binge-watching television, a visit to the zoo.

Find something that is just FOR YOU.


Current spouse: Night. D10, D9, S7

About me

You can't direct the wind, but you can adjust your sails.

http://www.divorcedmomfinances.com
Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: CajunRose] #411567
06/29/16 07:18 PM
06/29/16 07:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,344
AllyCat Offline OP
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AllyCat  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,344
Cajun,

I've just been watching TV. Not doing anything else.

I have a lot of anxiety.

My tummy is sick with the constant thought of having no idea what will happen with my life.

Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: AllyCat] #411568
06/29/16 07:39 PM
06/29/16 07:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,381
TX
CajunRose Offline
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CajunRose  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,381
TX
It is so scary not to have plans, or for your plans to be upended.

So scary.

It's okay to be scared and anxious.

It's also a good time to try to gently redirect your thoughts.

It's okay that you don't know what happens next. What happens next is going to be great. Regardless of what it is, it will give you an opportunity to build something wonderful.


Current spouse: Night. D10, D9, S7

About me

You can't direct the wind, but you can adjust your sails.

http://www.divorcedmomfinances.com
Re: Is it time to give up? [Re: CajunRose] #411569
06/29/16 08:01 PM
06/29/16 08:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,344
AllyCat Offline OP
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AllyCat  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,344
Cajun,

I feel like my life has been completely out of control for the past 3 years. I've never regained my footing, and it continues. And is likely to continue. I want to be strong and be able to move forward, but I'm overwhelmed. It's as though all of the suffering has come down to..... More suffering. I would just like a few months of relative peace. Of not living in constant fear of... Well life. This isn't really a way to live.

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