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Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Orchid2] #389144
07/11/15 03:11 PM
07/11/15 03:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 13,405
midwest
Miranda Offline
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Miranda  Offline
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It occurs to me that we are pushing hard on Cat to stay like she pushes hard on me to stand up to my husband. I don't know if this will make her feel unsafe (my reaction) or supported.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #389146
07/11/15 03:16 PM
07/11/15 03:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,611
wiser_now Offline
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Originally Posted By: catperson
Maybe I'm not 'gentle' enough or maybe I'm not empathetic enough, IDK.


I've felt exactly as you do, cat, and I *am* empathetic. I have been gentle. I have said rough things wrapped in the kindest possible wording and have still been told I'm being cruel.

There is no "winning" if the point is to make everyone happy.

I think there's probably one rule we can all follow and get along:

Don't be an a$$hole.

The rest is up to the reader.


A happy marriage is a long conversation which always seems too short. --Andre Maurois

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: wiser_now] #389230
07/12/15 04:12 PM
07/12/15 04:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,188
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LivingWell Offline
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LivingWell  Offline
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Catperson, in case you are still reading....

I've been thinking about this situation a lot. It's still hard for me to understand how someone who has the second highest number of posts at MA (yes, I know that I said third earlier.... I used to be able to accurately count all the way to ten lol crazy ) doesn't feel like they "fit" at MA.

In re-reading the last few pages, this stuck out to me...
Originally Posted By: LivingWell
Originally Posted By: catperson
But I've had several people here now tell me that my 'method' is at least not helpful, at worst harmful...

For them. At that particular time.

Not for everyone. And not every time.

There are reasons that MA created different types of forums for different types of posting. I'm wondering if you're applying how your method of posting is received to every forum. I'm thinking that your method of posting might be better received in the Enough is Enough forum than in protect forums (such as the Way Station).

I'm also wondering if you've considered inviting someone to move their thread to a forum like Enough is Enough, or even the ThunderDome, so that you would know that your type of posting was what they found helpful and wouldn't give you the idea that there wasn't a place at MA where you fit.


Originally Posted By: catperson
I'd just rather stay away than make more people feel bad.

I can't help wondering if you're one of the people that feels so bad that you no longer want to post.

I'm still not trying to talk you out of leaving. Having felt like I don't fit at MA a number of times (one of those times is now, btw), I know how valuable looking at the why of it has been for me. I'm posting my thoughts in case it might be valuable to you, too.

Last edited by LivingWell; 07/12/15 04:13 PM.
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: LivingWell] #389232
07/12/15 05:02 PM
07/12/15 05:02 PM
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believer Offline
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I hope you don't leave, Catperson. Yes, we need gentle, sympathetic people, but also straight-talkers. You've given me advice that smarted at the time, but proved to be the only thing that worked for me. It would be an awful shame for your voice to be silenced.

Thinking of you.


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: believer] #411115
06/16/16 08:38 PM
06/16/16 08:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 20,483
catperson Offline OP
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Hi all, NED asked me to update, so here's my update, as short as I can make it. haha

Left job in medical district for one about 10 miles from my home in oil & gas and 8 months later (Feb. 2015) got laid off, thanks to the low gas prices. I've been doing temporary, contract, or online work ever since, trying to find a real job. Still no luck. I even applied for merchandising jobs and was told I wasn't qualified! Got a contract job an hour away since last August but they reduced my hours to 16 a week two months ago, so financially I'm not even treading water. Ever since last February, DH's car hasn't been working and he wouldn't get it fixed; he just took my car (since I wasn't working anyway, right?). So for at least a full year, I never had a car to drive and in a suburb, that means you can't go anywhere. Luckily there is a tiny stripmall with one restaurant here, so I would occasionally walk there for lunch when I was so stir crazy I was about to have a heart attack. And when I got this contract job, he drove me, so I had to depend on his crazy schedule to go and and get picked up.

I've applied to probably 500 jobs in the last 15 months. Have realized I am WAY undertrained (and too old) for today's job market - everything's electronic. I used to be the one pushing for technology, but it's passed me by. And I'm so depressed lately (yes, on ADs) that I'm literally doing good just to get the basics done and whatever work I've got scheduled done, let along take the time for online training. House cleaning? What's that? I barely get the dishes done every few days. But at least the ADs are keeping the panic attacks at bay now.

DH got laid off a month after I did. Fortunately, one of his clients called him an HOUR later and offered to fund him starting his own business. I've been asking him to start his own business for 20 years. It's working pretty well, though we're not making that much money. On the days I don't have work, I often go with him to help him install electronics, to save that little bit for profits. Though he keeps his business separate from us so I have no idea what his money really looks like. And of course he won't take any of my advice, even though when he asked me if he should start the business, I said only if you let me give advice and you listen to me. And he won't hand any of the work over to me.

Our debt has about doubled in the last few years, between the last TWO companies gypping him out of the money they owed him in commissions - to the tune of about $40,000, and starting this company where he's not making enough yet to see any profits. I'm at the stage where I just have a pile of bills and see what I can pay this week and what will be paid late. Oh, and joy, I had to get insurance and the absolute cheapest I could get was an HMO for $1200/month with $15,000/year deductible. So that's a struggle just to afford that, let alone everything else.

I even lowered myself to ask my brother for a loan (shudder), only to find out that since he got divorced and she walked off with hundreds of thousands of his money, and he was 'retired' at his job, he now considers himself 'too poor' to loan me anything. He probably has a million or two in savings and retirement, but he can't loan me $5000 until I find a job. Story of my family.

I've been on about 10 interviews in the last year (and have another one tomorrow), lost every one. I think it's because of how I look. I've gained so much weight this past year it's not even funny (and wine has been my friend way too much, so that's not helping - I know, I know, you don't have to say it). And I'm only 5 ft tall to begin with. I'm starting to get white hair. And I didn't have a picture on LinkedIn because I think I'm so ugly that I couldn't stand a single picture I would take decent enough to post, so I think the interviewers were surprised and disappointed to see how old and unattractive I am. Finally found one half-decent picture and I put it up on LinkedIn this week so I could avoid any more disappointments. At least they'll know what they're getting before they set up an appointment.

DD25 is a bright spot, though she's had a horrible year, too. She moved in with her boyfriend this year March 1; the same day she moved in with him, HE got laid off. And he just two weeks ago finally got a job. So they've both gone through pretty much all their savings and she's having panic attacks regularly about money. But she did get a great job to get her through the next year til she finishes her Masters degree. She plans to get a real job at that point, get married in another year, have kids, and once the kids are here, go back for her PhD. Pretty good head on her shoulders.

Oddly enough, the only other bright spot in this whole sh*tty year is my DH. I FINALLY started getting to the point that I could tell him what I think, why I'm unhappy, what I want. And he's been responding really well, for the most part. When he's an ass, I say so.

Like I've been fixing our lawn for the past 4 or 5 months, getting the weeds out. He didn't like what I was doing in one place, he wanted to not do that part but instead install a patio addition, and I said 'do you mean after the other 3 projects we're supposed to do out here?' (3 projects he's started outside but never gotten around to, just like the wood he bought to refloor the bedroom or the closet system he bought but never installed). Anyway, after I said that, he said 'Well at least I'm bringing money in.' I was shocked; after all the mismanagement of money on his part that I've dealt with and never said a word, and me continuing to get higher paying jobs to cover the debt he was creating, the ONE time in 36 years I've been out of work and he says that?

So I didn't speak to him for several days, and then I told him why. And he apologized, and agreed. And he's been night and day ever since. He's remodeled a bunch of stuff upstairs when I said I had wanted to do it. He's fixed a bunch of things. He's stopped snapping at me. He actually talks to me and asks me about my life (such as it is). He's made other changes.

And I told him a month ago how horrible I felt that I didn't have a car, when he has TWO cars in our driveway he won't get fixed. Not that I have anywhere to go (and no money), but that I am completely dependent on him and have no say. So he finally got the car running. Still not inspected (3 months late) and still has things wrong with it, but it runs. And he only did that because I told him how unhappy I was (and because DD25 chewed him out after I told him and he called her to cry on her shoulder about how unfair I was).

So I'm gaining more courage and he's opening his eyes and ears.

It's a miracle, I tell ya!

Now if I could just get a job...

Anyway, I'd appreciate it if y'all refrain from telling me how to fix all this. I already know it, and I really don't have the fortitude to deal with justifying myself.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #411116
06/16/16 09:01 PM
06/16/16 09:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 13,405
midwest
Miranda Offline
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Miranda  Offline
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midwest
Oh Cat....

I'm so sorry to hear about the job and money stuff!!!! That's TERRIBLE.

Of course maybe the silver lining is that your husband is learning to straighten up and fly a little bit right? What a wonderful blessing that would be, huh?

Good luck with the interview. I won't give you advice, because honestly the work thing is a hot mess for us oldsters. I live in mortal terror of losing my job too.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Miranda] #411120
06/16/16 10:19 PM
06/16/16 10:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 20,483
catperson Offline OP
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catperson  Offline OP
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{{{Miranda}}} Thanks. The interview's just for a six-month contract, but hey, it's better than 16 hours a week, right?

What ticks me off is that I interviewed for a city job six months ago and they were so psyched that they set me up for a second meeting with their boss, saying they HAD to have me in their department, and on the second interview, she said it was just so she could meet me, but she wanted me for a 'higher level' job than the one I applied for but it wouldn't be ready for a month or two. So I left without a job, and then never heard back. Eventually, I figured out that the new mayor who just came in put a moritorium on hiring and even laid people off, including the boss who was going to hire me. ugh!

My timing sucks SO BAD!

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #411121
06/16/16 10:52 PM
06/16/16 10:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,071
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SmilingWife Offline
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Cat thank you for updating. I have really really missed you and I've been worried about you too.

Your progress with your Dh is amazing. I always felt he has so many good qualities and I hoped you two could find a way to mesh productively.

The job situation. Ugh. No advice from me. I am about to be 51 and haven't worked except for this gig I've got now for over 16 years. I am terrified at times too.....but I try to go with the flow AND I filled in at the front desk of my boss's shop a week or so ago...so I am hopeful I can do more of that and maybe have the job when his aunt retires.

Oh and dss15 is coming to live with us. He has told his mom and everything.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #411122
06/16/16 10:54 PM
06/16/16 10:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 629
Deep South
BBski Offline
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Deep South
Catperson, I am so sorry about your job sitch. I also live in mortal fear of losing my job.
So good to hear from you though. I've missed your very sage advice.
I'll keep you in my thoughts that a job will come up for you.


Me 59; XH 60
Married 34 yrs, together 39 yrs
DD30 (married w/1 1/2 yr old GS) & DD25
DDay Nov. 7, 2012
He moved out Feb 15,2013
D final July 2014
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: BBski] #411124
06/16/16 11:22 PM
06/16/16 11:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 20,483
catperson Offline OP
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catperson  Offline OP
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SW, thanks. I've been following your story. I'm SO psyched that you may soon be able to do for your SS as you have for your son. He needs it SO badly.

Everyone who talks to me is SO inspired by my work history (all big companies). But when it comes down to it, they want an expert in this or that, and I never pushed to become an expert in anything. Kicking me in the butt.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #411125
06/16/16 11:23 PM
06/16/16 11:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 20,483
catperson Offline OP
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catperson  Offline OP
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BB, thanks. I'm just taking one day at a time, as well as just being ready to 'disappear' so everyone else could get on with their lives. Not by my hands, just...trying not to be too invested, you know?

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #411129
06/17/16 12:29 AM
06/17/16 12:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,389
Utah
Kayla Offline
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Kayla  Offline
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Cat - I went back to school when I was 55 and will be 57 when I complete my masters. It's a tech type field, which will put me at the same pay grade I'm at now, but the difference will be remarkable in that I can earn six figures, knowing that's how much I make before the end of the quarter after I've worked my fanny off! (Sales is a bit on the rough side of life).


Consider that we don't have to live with the consequences of our advice in your life. Act according to what you can live with!
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Kayla] #411130
06/17/16 12:37 AM
06/17/16 12:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
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catperson Offline OP
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If I could afford to not work for the next year, that would be great. But I spend about 15 hours a day searching for jobs and applying and doing part-time side jobs just to pay the bills.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #411133
06/17/16 02:44 AM
06/17/16 02:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,389
Utah
Kayla Offline
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Utah
I'm working 60 hours a week, and dealing with some fairly serious health issues right now. I know it's stressful but age should not be a barrier. I'm only taking two classes, but may actually have to scale back to just one.


Consider that we don't have to live with the consequences of our advice in your life. Act according to what you can live with!
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Kayla] #411138
06/17/16 12:05 PM
06/17/16 12:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,400
Not quite here
Squeaky Tree Offline
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Squeaky Tree  Offline
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Not quite here
Oh Cat, Great to hear from you! The interesting thing in all this crapness that you've all been through, is that right now, in this update, you sound so calm and able to cope. You actually sound quite fresh and less stressed.

I hope that the job stuff sorts itself out soon and the money starts coming in again.


Married 21years (this year) ~12y since dday(?)
DD16 DS14
Which way do you like yourself? ~ Stosny
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Squeaky Tree] #411144
06/17/16 12:56 PM
06/17/16 12:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,611
wiser_now Offline
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Hi Cat,

Welcome back! I had written something and then realized you didn't want to hear it just yet. So, I've removed it. Take care and glad to see you're here!


A happy marriage is a long conversation which always seems too short. --Andre Maurois

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: wiser_now] #411154
06/17/16 02:14 PM
06/17/16 02:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,741
NewEveryDay Offline
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NewEveryDay  Offline
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Cat it's so good to see you! And good for you for speaking up, you so deserve it!!!

I'm sorry to hear about the job situation, what a stress, no wonder you are depressed! I know you're not looking for advice, but my little one was saying things just like you, and I thought, oh, that's just how teenagers feel, or something like that, but it was a sign she really needed swift action. It took a lot of work but at least for now she has meds, an IC, and a psychiatric nurse practitioner and for the first time in a few years really seems like herself again. They had to double her dose of ADs to get her the relief she needed. And trying to find the right meds made the problems much worse before they got better, that was the scariest part! Actually all of us in both houses are on meds now but if we need it we need it what else can we do?

Would you tell your DH or your daughter what you told us, maybe they can get you more help without you having to do the lifting alone? My mom was in the hospital a few times these last few years, and they weren't taking good care of her, so she asked my brother to hire a private duty nurse, and he arranged it and let us all know so we could split the cost. She was sick and could hardly breathe and couldn't arrange it on her own but she knew she could count on my brother.

Edited to add, Cat, I just reread your post, if you don't want to ask them for more help, feel like it will get better on its own in time, that happens too, I trust your judgment, no need to justify.

And I'm so proud of your daughter! She always had a great head on her shoulders, just like her mom! A Master's, how awesome!

Last edited by NewEveryDay; 06/17/16 02:22 PM. Reason: added more

"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: NewEveryDay] #411163
06/17/16 04:15 PM
06/17/16 04:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,085
SFB Offline
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Cat;

Welcome back. I am sorry that so much sucks about your job sitch.

I will have to comment on one thing... You need to get your head in your husbands business. Protect yourself. What is going on there?

SFB


Finding an ethical way to deal with pain, fear, disappointment etc..is part of the experience of becoming a stronger person...one who is driven by compassion instead of compulsion...ie I have a legitimate reason to be stressed out right now...however, my response to it will determine how others percieve me, and myself. (quoting Star*Fish)
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: SFB] #411170
06/17/16 05:13 PM
06/17/16 05:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,017
holdingontoit Offline
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I agree with SFB. He doesn't have to share decision making with you, but he should share the financials. Otherwise no more volunteering to help him. Oh, and refuse to sign a joint tax return if he won't show you the financials. You are asking for problems later by signing something under penalties of perjury where you don't actually know whether the numbers are accurate. If he doesn't think you are trustworthy to know the financials, that is a good sign HE is not trustworthy for you to rely that everything with the business is going OK.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: holdingontoit] #411175
06/17/16 06:49 PM
06/17/16 06:49 PM
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Posts: 1,389
Utah
Kayla Offline
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I also concur - having had an under-earner husband who was self employed I had to force the issue when he got caught using his free time to violate our marriage in other ways besides financial

If he isn't paying the bills he needs to be working on getting a job and do the business on the side until it's producing.


Consider that we don't have to live with the consequences of our advice in your life. Act according to what you can live with!
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Kayla] #411176
06/17/16 07:10 PM
06/17/16 07:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 20,483
catperson Offline OP
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He's not hiding anything. I have access to all our other financials. It's just that his partner opened up this account at another bank. I'm not signing on anything. He's paying his $6000/month into my account every month; I just don't know anything about what's being done with the rest of the money. He tells me all about it, like when he doesn't have enough to pay this or that for the company; I just don't have access to the account.

When I say he's not including me, I mean that I'll make suggestions and he just continues to do what he wants. Like he wanted a letter to send to his last company who didn't pay him his commissions, so I wrote the letter and emailed it to him...a month ago. When I ask if he did anything with it, he just says no and if I try to discuss it more, he just says he doesn't have time. He hasn't ordered business cards, has been out for three months, he prints some on the printer and just cuts them up. When I asked yesterday, he said he wants to redesign it and hasn't had time. Just stuff like that.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #411179
06/17/16 07:31 PM
06/17/16 07:31 PM
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SFB Offline
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Cat:

That makes me feel a lot better.

SFB


Finding an ethical way to deal with pain, fear, disappointment etc..is part of the experience of becoming a stronger person...one who is driven by compassion instead of compulsion...ie I have a legitimate reason to be stressed out right now...however, my response to it will determine how others percieve me, and myself. (quoting Star*Fish)
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: SFB] #412287
07/24/16 06:58 AM
07/24/16 06:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,592
Mary Emma Offline
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Cat,
this is very serendipitous. I am having late night insomnia and was looking through very old emails, years old. I read years ago that you would have loved to be a librarian. Guess what- one year of easy schooling and you can be certified. Take out a student loan and do it, that is my opinion. The library field is full of people that switched careers, you would fit right in.
I am rooting for you.


Me 41
H 40
S 9
S 6

I want to live in a world where George Zimmerman offered Trayvon Martin a ride home to get him out of the rain that night. -Bishop G. Brewer
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Mary Emma] #412312
07/25/16 02:01 PM
07/25/16 02:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,381
TX
CajunRose Offline
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TX
Hi Cat!

Somehow I missed your original post.

I miss you - I am glad you are back here occasionally.

I'm sorry about all the job difficulties you are having, but I am proud of you for not giving up, for getting help (ADs), and for finally standing up for yourself to your husband.

Maybe that's the silver lining to the job losses - you are in position where you have to ask your H for what you want/need, rather than make arrangements for yourself, and he is able to respond because he feels more needed now.

I have my fingers crossed that you will find something.


Current spouse: Night. D10, D9, S7

About me

You can't direct the wind, but you can adjust your sails.

http://www.divorcedmomfinances.com
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Mary Emma] #412372
07/27/16 01:18 AM
07/27/16 01:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 20,483
catperson Offline OP
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catperson  Offline OP
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Posts: 20,483
Originally Posted By: Mary Emma
Cat,
this is very serendipitous. I am having late night insomnia and was looking through very old emails, years old. I read years ago that you would have loved to be a librarian. Guess what- one year of easy schooling and you can be certified. Take out a student loan and do it, that is my opinion. The library field is full of people that switched careers, you would fit right in.
I am rooting for you.
Mary Emma, thanks for the information you sent me. If I didn't think libraries are disappearing, I might invest in it. Still might.

At the same time, with no income on my side, we are SO in debt I can't even pay the monthly bills, so I asked my brother for help. He has tons of money, even told me recently that I'm the recipient of his will and he apparently has a lot of money. So I asked him for a loan to get out from under our credit card debt. He recommended bankruptcy.

Of course my H reneged.

So...who knows? College is the last thing on my mind. But I do appreciate the thought.

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