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Re: Sometimes... [Re: LadyGrey] #408547
04/29/16 06:41 PM
04/29/16 06:41 PM
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Monterey, CA
Fiddler Offline
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Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Originally Posted By: fiddler
So then perhaps you expect your mother to have exactly the same thoughts about it as you.
Yes, I do.
Okay, now think about a time when your mother was not doing what you would have done. How do you react when you think of that moment and are believing the thought "My mother should see this as I do"?

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Perhaps the belief that we should be studying for inquiry is this one: I believe there is a baseline level of behavior that we are entitled to expect from those who claim to love us and those we claim to love.
That would indeed be a useful one to inquire into.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
In my opinion, my mother's decision to stay at home (actually, she may have had cards that day -- all my chemos were on Tuesday and Wednesday which are days she plays cards, the reason offered by my father for why she never showed up) during her daughter's surgery for cancer falls far below that baseline.

As in, like an affair, there is simply nothing that makes that even remotely OK.
This would be a useful scene to use in the above question about how you react believing that she should see things the same as you. So there you are in the hospital with chemo, and there she is at home playing cards. In that moment, what are your reactions when you believe the thought "she should be here with me" and she isn't?

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Originally Posted By: fiddler
Look around you - in this moment, is your mother anywhere around?


Yes, she's in my head. At the moment, no one is around me except a black lab. But I'm influenced in my mood by those not present.
So then even when not present, your mother can cause you to feel badly? Is she the one who is doing it to when she's not around, or are you doing it to yourself with what you are believing? (I'm assuming that the black lab is 100% innocent of any of this).

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Originally Posted By: fiddler
There are eight beliefs in Miranda's statement that are excellent candidates for inquiry. Like you, she may believe that holding onto those beliefs somehow keeps her "safe." Rather, they are more likely the cause rather than the cure. Or they could be the cure - but one will never know unless they are investigated and questioned
Tell me, please, how in any universe what my mother -- my very own mother -- did is OK.
What this inquiry is about is not determining whether someone else's actions are or are not acceptable or okay. It is about examining the extent to which our own beliefs are the cause of our suffering. When the beliefs about her actions have been inquired into and questioned, then a clearer evaluation of her actions is possible. Starting with unquestioned beliefs leads to pain and suffering - which I believe you experience around this area.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Originally Posted By: fiddler
If you are 100% convinced that what you are believing is not only true, but protecting you, then there is no room for inquiry.

Not so my friend. I can want to be that person who understands my mother and loves her regardless.
That may very well be the result of this inquiry. What I hope we are starting with is a process so that you can understand yourself and love you, regardless.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
In the way of that is my profound and unshakeable belief that the fiduciary duty owed from mother to child is the highest duty imaginable.
This is certainly "in the way" as you put it. And I'm not suggesting that you put this thought aside; rather, question it. If it is truly true, then it (or any other thought) can certainly stand questioning. So can you absolutely know that it is true that the fiduciary duty owed by a mother to her child is the highest?


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: Sometimes... [Re: Fiddler] #408822
05/05/16 04:58 AM
05/05/16 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: fiddler
This would be a useful scene to use in the above question about how you react believing that she should see things the same as you. So there you are in the hospital with chemo, and there she is at home playing cards. In that moment, what are your reactions when you believe the thought "she should be here with me" and she isn't?


Shame.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Sometimes... [Re: LadyGrey] #408832
05/05/16 02:26 PM
05/05/16 02:26 PM
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Posts: 6,208
Monterey, CA
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Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Originally Posted By: fiddler
This would be a useful scene to use in the above question about how you react believing that she should see things the same as you. So there you are in the hospital with chemo, and there she is at home playing cards. In that moment, what are your reactions when you believe the thought "she should be here with me" and she isn't?


Shame.
Nothing else? No resentment or anger? In that moment, you have thoughts such as "she should be here with me" or "She doesn't love me"?


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: Sometimes... [Re: Fiddler] #408835
05/05/16 03:32 PM
05/05/16 03:32 PM
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Maybe some resentment. But mostly shame that I'm not good enough to merit her attention even in such exigent circumstances.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Sometimes... [Re: LadyGrey] #408836
05/05/16 05:19 PM
05/05/16 05:19 PM
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Monterey, CA
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So the primary belief behind the shame is "I'm not good enough."


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: Sometimes... [Re: Fiddler] #409082
05/10/16 03:33 AM
05/10/16 03:33 AM
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LadyGrey Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Fiddler
So the primary belief behind the shame is "I'm not good enough."


I've been mulling this over and I think you have presented me with a tautology:

1. It is a belief, in which event is is subject to inquiry, or

2. It is a fact.

I think there is a huge range of truth between those two axis.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Sometimes... [Re: LadyGrey] #409113
05/10/16 02:19 PM
05/10/16 02:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,208
Monterey, CA
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If you believe it, it is a "fact." Perhaps a part of you is convinced that "I'm not good enough" is some kind of "objective" fact ... like 2 + 2 = 11.

The purpose of inquiry is to look into our reactions to our beliefs and investigate whether what we are believing is indeed the only "truth" - or are there other, possibly opposite beliefs that are just as "true" if not "truer." A "fact" is 100% resilient in the face of inquiry.

So ... thinking of yourself in that situation, lying in the hospital bed with your mother outside not coming in, what are your reactions in that moment when you are believing "I'm not good enough"?


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: Sometimes... [Re: Fiddler] #409315
05/13/16 12:23 AM
05/13/16 12:23 AM
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LadyGrey Offline OP
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Well, this has been an interesting mental journey.

The fact is that I didn't even notice my mother hadn't shown up until she showed up.

My sister was there with my husband. I had to be at hospital 1 at 6 am to have a dye injected into my nipple. When we arrived, late because my husband had a sudden memory loss, my sister was there.

We then went to hospital 2 after another memory loss and my sister was there.

I know that's what I always expected -- that for sure my sister would be there and for sure my mother wouldn't --would happen because otherwise my mother's absence would have been mentally noted.

When she completed her drive by visit, I remember shaking my head and saying out loud, "wow. just wow." But I didn't think, "I'm not good enough" at that point. I concluded that years later.

My dad didn't even get out of the car.

I think, Fiddler, that my feelings about my mother are grounded in fact. The trick seems to be to keep those feelings at bay when I'm not around her. She can ruin a perfectly good day for me simply by my recalling that she exists. That's a pretty damn powerful 85 year with congestive heart failure and diabetes.

Last edited by LadyGrey; 05/13/16 12:24 AM.

Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Sometimes... [Re: LadyGrey] #409432
05/16/16 03:27 AM
05/16/16 03:27 AM
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LadyGrey Offline OP
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We lived in Houston when I was in middle school, and my sister and I used to lay out in the backyard on towels on the grass with foil surrounding our bodies, slicked up with baby oil mixed with iodine and don't bother asking because I have no idea what the point of the iodine was and lemon juice in our hair so it got real crunchy.

I loved the crunchiness because it meant something was happening which meant that Frank Habersham might like me which was my life's dream at age 12.

Forty years later I found out that Frank is gay. So there you go. My first love could never love me back.

Damn he was cute.

My sister had a melanoma many years ago. My husband who is olive skinned just had a piece of skin the size of a quarter excised from his upper lip, and dear God please spare me from this man ever being actually sick.

I'm going for a skin check this week. I despise preventative health care. They want you to actually filter the 176 symptoms you have into something that might be medically relevant and you are at a serious disadvantage in this competition because you didn't go to medical school.

Speaking of cancer -- and we are -- I get to have ANOTHER endometrial biopsy, and I'm proud of my response which is if you are so keen to find out what is going on in my uterus, you have to knock me out first. I'm not doing that again, ever.

The drug I take for the breast cancer leads to an increased risk of endometrial cancer ergo the doctor's interest.

My interest is to have my lady parts removed as they are serving no legitimate purpose at the mo, and I'm not going through this every year. I haven't even had the annual mammogram that leads to the follow up mammogram that leads to a sonogram that leads to "you are fine -- what are you so agitated about anyway?"

May is cancer month.

June is wedding month.

Let's hear it for June!


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Sometimes... [Re: LadyGrey] #409443
05/16/16 02:32 PM
05/16/16 02:32 PM
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Next time you remember your mother exists, do what I do when I remember why Mrs. H and I will never have sex again: stand straight and tall, tilt your head slightly to the left, raise you right hand above your head and give the sky (or ceiling) the finger and say "f you, f you, and f you" with steadily increasing levels of fervor.

I find this allows the anger and guilt and pain to flow up through my finger and out into the universe where it can dissipate. And then I go back to my regularly scheduled routine of ignoring my feelings.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Sometimes... [Re: holdingontoit] #409747
05/23/16 02:57 AM
05/23/16 02:57 AM
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LadyGrey Offline OP
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I am unsure what I should be doing right now.

My daughter marries in a month and I don't have a glimmer of a toast. I'm unsure about how I am supposed to feel about her marrying. She's 27 and he is 32 and they have been together for 6 years so it's not too soon.

I don't think it would matter who she was marrying, I'd still be freaked out. I am my daughter's one and only. We just went through too much unadulterated grade A crap together. I'm her person.

So I'm trying to consciously pass that mantle -- often heavy -- to my soon to be son in law who I quite like.

It is a very hard thing to do -- to say when she calls me about some mess up of hers (and there are many) -- well, what does your fiance think?

There is a still, dark part of me that adores these phone calls and revels in the fact that she called me first.

But I know that isn't the right path. Husband first, mom second and I will defend that position with my dying breath.

Mom second. That's a toughie for me.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Sometimes... [Re: LadyGrey] #409749
05/23/16 03:34 AM
05/23/16 03:34 AM
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There are always times you will still get called first. My mom's a retired nurse, I've almost always called her first for medical emergency questions. Maybe you're the specialist at calming her nerves when they're shot when she's alone. Sounds good to me.

But I hear you, there are times also that she'll call her H first, too. What a huge transition!


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: Sometimes... [Re: NewEveryDay] #409754
05/23/16 03:51 AM
05/23/16 03:51 AM
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Posts: 10,860
HI
O
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HI
Do you have your dress?

Re: Sometimes... [Re: Orchid2] #409776
05/23/16 01:36 PM
05/23/16 01:36 PM
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Amazing job seeing the dynamic and determining to do what is best for your D and SIL and not selfishly doing what is best for you. Well done Mama Bear!


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Sometimes... [Re: holdingontoit] #410025
05/27/16 02:19 AM
05/27/16 02:19 AM
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LadyGrey Offline OP
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I accidentally went to a yoga class on Tuesday.

You may think that one can't accidentally go to a yoga class, and you would be wrong.

I showed up for my usual barre class but the instructor was sick so we got Yoga God instead.

I have never been to a yoga class before and was aware of my shortcomings going in.

I was never going to be the class star but I wouldn't have anticipated that I would become so intrigued with Yoga God I was worse than even I would have thought.

Yoga God is about 9 feet tall. He did a forearm handstand, waving his legs around in the air like, "would someone please change it to ESPN." He puts the palms of his hands under his feet. I've never seen anything like it.

He was easy in his body and his spirit.

I want that for me, not to be confused with I want him for me.

I may go to another yoga class intentionally. Or I may not.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Sometimes... [Re: LadyGrey] #410046
05/27/16 01:05 PM
05/27/16 01:05 PM
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LG,

I have been wanting to get into yoga for about 100 years.

Can't seem to find the time to do it. I live in the country and work in a Podunk town. Any class would require me to DRIVE to the city and attend AFTER work, and this requires me to WILLFULLY SEPARATE from my husband during what he views as HIS TIME.

If you do explore this option, please let us know how it goes. I would definitely be interested in/inspired by your experience.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: Sometimes... [Re: Miranda] #410059
05/27/16 04:22 PM
05/27/16 04:22 PM
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LG - I signed up for personal training sessions, with the stipulation that I would be learning yoga for balance and core strengthening, as I had none. This was the only way I could work around my healing knee without re-injuring it.

It has helped, especially the breathing part of it. I'm not doing hand-stands, but I can hold a tree pose for over a minute now, on either foot.


Consider that we don't have to live with the consequences of our advice in your life. Act according to what you can live with!
Re: Sometimes... [Re: Kayla] #410440
06/02/16 09:53 PM
06/02/16 09:53 PM
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LadyGrey Offline OP
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I am going to prove to you beyond a reasonable doubt that you just never know what is going to happen next.

Saturday afternoon I felt kind of crummy with a sore throat. Saturday night I spiked a fever of 102 with a sorer throat. Sunday I planted 12 flats of flower in a fog and spiked another temperature of 102. At this point, I was certain I had strep throat and as there is no after hours/holiday care where I live except the $500 cost of entry ER, I called my dr. sister-in-law for some penicillin which she reluctantly prescribed. I took 5 tablets between Sunday morning and Monday morning when I woke with my chin swollen tight as a drum and red as an apple. I couldn't swallow at all.

My husband and I were waiting at the door of the clinic at 8 a.m. with no appointment. By 11 I was in the CT scan which makes that $500 look like Trevi fountain change. By 2 I was in the hour and a half drive ambulance ride to the big city as the infection was compromising my airway. At 6 this morning I was in surgery to remove from my throat the necrotizing fasciatas a/k/a flesh eating bacteria and some other thing that is also "potentially fatal" and it was a "very good thing" we came as quick as we could as the bacterial was eating through the muscle which gives it free rein through the respiratory tract.

Now you have to be just a little impressed.

I'm going to be fine or if I'm not they haven't told me so.

I'm just taken by how we never, ever worry about the right stuff. I stew more than I should about the cancer getting me and here I was hours away from at the very least a serious situation which started as a sore throat and fever.

My husband has been amazing though the whole thing. He sat there and let me yell at the doctor for giving me inconsistent information. He brings me whatever i want which isn't much -- at this rate I may actually make my goal of weighing the same thing on my daughter's wedding day as I did on my own. He held me when I cried. He sits for hours and hours in that uncomfortable chair, refusing to go home no matter what I say. He just couldn't be more wonderful and his actions make me love him in a more active way than I have for a long time.

Again, this was a situation where I could have ducked and weaved around accepting his help, but it didn't even occur to me. I could have fought back against my need for him using many of the passive aggressive weapons in my arsenal, but I wasn't even tempted.

I heard a young woman witness one time about her experience of becoming sick on a missionary trip and how hard she fought to keep people from "wasting their time" by taking care of her, how guilty and useless she felt. The youth minister pointed out to her that she was depriving the other kids from experiencing the joy of ministering to her in the center of God's will for all of them. That stuck with me and I have thought of it many times over the last couple of days -- this notion that in fighting my husband's loving desire to care for me I am frustrating God's plan for us. It helps with my own fear and guilt.

And Percocet takes care of the rest!


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Sometimes... [Re: LadyGrey] #410441
06/02/16 10:10 PM
06/02/16 10:10 PM
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midwest
Miranda Offline
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<3


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: Sometimes... [Re: Miranda] #410442
06/02/16 10:20 PM
06/02/16 10:20 PM
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OH my word! That is terrifying LG. Wow. Where does such a thing conform?

As for your husband.....my heart melted just a little toward him....and I would like to remind you that my Xh ( who often reminds me of your Dh) was always at his best in a crisis. Good job on letting him step up.

My sister told me one time 'it is a privilege to care for people you love' . I have never forgotten that.

Re: Sometimes... [Re: SmilingWife] #410455
06/03/16 05:15 AM
06/03/16 05:15 AM
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Yay for Percocet in situations like these. But, I am sorry about the expensive and painful weight loss. What a blessing that your H is helping you! Hugs for you, Sweet Lady.

Re: Sometimes... [Re: Blair] #410480
06/03/16 03:50 PM
06/03/16 03:50 PM
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Sorry this happened to you, but thanks for sharing such a heart warming story. Kudos to both you and your H. Glad it looks like you will fully recover from the infection.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Sometimes... [Re: holdingontoit] #410485
06/03/16 04:49 PM
06/03/16 04:49 PM
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southern USA
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Oh, my goodness! frown I'm so glad you got treatment pretty quickly, LG. That's super scary stuff!

It's so nice to hear how your relationship with your H has changed and improved. I'm happy for you. smile

Lori


"To know what is right and not do it is the worst cowardice."
wife...mom...nana...happy smile
Re: Sometimes... [Re: at peace] #410506
06/03/16 07:03 PM
06/03/16 07:03 PM
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Holy cow, LG!!

You know, I've always thought that you had a special reason for being here.... special work to do for your own benefit as well as for the benefit of others. And that doing your work and sharing the nitty gritty of it would bless many people.

So glad that you will still be around. smile

Re: Sometimes... [Re: LivingWell] #410512
06/03/16 07:34 PM
06/03/16 07:34 PM
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You're in my thoughts and prayers, LG! Yikes and more yikes! Scary stuff!!


A happy marriage is a long conversation which always seems too short. --Andre Maurois

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