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Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust #43688
01/02/11 06:16 PM
01/02/11 06:16 PM
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Northwest Washington State, US...
AlTurtle Offline OP
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Well, now we've taken some time pondering our own Lizard and how two Lizards can live peacefully, I invite you to share how you've applied your knowledge. This should be all about specifics.

Please share the good (what works for you), and the better (trials that didn't work at the time and which you can learn from).

For me this is now the most exciting stuff. Kind of like me teaching a couple something and then, when they come in next week, I ask, "What have you tried? How have things changed? What's up?"


Principles are simple. Applying them is a tough U-Do-It project. Go 4 it!
Al Turtle
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #43839
01/03/11 01:47 AM
01/03/11 01:47 AM
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Right now, I have applied the Lizard principle by creating space for both of ours. While we have resumed contact, it is limited in duration and subjects. Any triggering subject is tabled until we have something in place for mutual safety.

It's still early, but one change is that we can now interact without a lot of pain. We still need to work on a way to address the underlying issues.


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #43950
01/03/11 05:07 AM
01/03/11 05:07 AM
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I am noticing that when Lizzy acts up while I'm with my kids, it's usually because I need to set a boundary with them. I'm getting better at setting boundaries consistently, and noticing when Lizzy is activated. They've been acting up a lot lately and my stress levels were going through the roof, so responding appropriately to inappropriate behaviours is a quality of life issue for me, as well as good parenting.


we: me44 + my husband Pookie :9: + S9 + D6
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: flowmom] #43976
01/03/11 12:47 PM
01/03/11 12:47 PM
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I think the Undivided Attention (UA) time and Family Commitment (FC) time I learned about at MB was a great way to put into practice what I was learning about comforting my lizard. I planned and got in the habit of doing lots of things that were calming to my lizard, and it calmed us down as a family, too. Active things like taking a walk, going to the park, for a swim, or for a bike ride. I didn't worry about AOs the way I had in the house. I think part of it was that we were out in public, and I felt safe AOs wouldn't happen there, but the bigger part was that it gave our lizards something playful to do.


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: NewEveryDay] #43977
01/03/11 12:54 PM
01/03/11 12:54 PM
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Not really relationship-related, but I deal with a certain amount of social anxiety, HATE crowded places. Went to a gun show on Saturday, and the last day of a cool Mayan exhibit at the museum yesterday. I was a lot more aware of the lizard playing the role in my anxiety. I was able to do things to give my lizard some breathing room at each place and not have the anxiety ramp way up. Having an awareness that though I don't know why, when I'm getting an anxiety that doesn't make rational sense, that the lizard's in play... helps somehow.


Let me not be so vain to think I'm the sole author of my victories and and a victim of my defeats. -- ze frank
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: flowmom] #44002
01/03/11 01:57 PM
01/03/11 01:57 PM
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A quote just JUMPED at me this morning.

"Say it once ~ or twice ~ and then shut up"

Like many pieces of wisdom, I've heard this one in many ways and forms. In my Alanon program, one thing I've learned is that if I am saying something more than once or twice, to check my intent. Often, it's a good signal to me that I'm trying to control instead of letting someone figure out their own process.

My sister hates her job and wants to quit. I keep telling her, "Remember you need to find the next job before you finish this one." Totally MasterTalk. I want her to be happy, but also I don't want to support her when she comes to my door telling me she quit her job but can't get along at our parents' house anymore. But it's "outside my hula hoop." I want to stop being controlling to her like this. What a word! And I didn't even recognize it. Thanks for the articles.


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: NewEveryDay] #44080
01/03/11 04:19 PM
01/03/11 04:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
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Northwest Washington State, US...
AlTurtle Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: NewEveryDay
My sister hates her job and wants to quit. I keep telling her, "Remember you need to find the next job before you finish this one." Totally MasterTalk. I want her to be happy, but also I don't want to support her when she comes to my door telling me she quit her job but can't get along at our parents' house anymore. But it's "outside my hula hoop." I want to stop being controlling to her like this. What a word! And I didn't even recognize it.

Loved your input. How many of us have interesting reactions to people who do not do the "wise" thing? And instead do what they choose. Doing the "wrong" thing seems to be part of life, of learning "our lessons." Still tis tough to deal with them while they are doing this. Happens in my office all the time. Sometimes my "wise" thing, turns out to be flatly "wrong." I guess they are "right" no matter what they do. "It is either going to work out well or you'll learn something."

But to the issue of "controlling and bullying." Consider whether you are trying to control her (probably you are slipping that way), or is she controlling you (also probable). Or both. Take a look at the 2nd paper in Topic #3.


Principles are simple. Applying them is a tough U-Do-It project. Go 4 it!
Al Turtle
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: NewEveryDay] #44086
01/03/11 04:22 PM
01/03/11 04:22 PM
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AlTurtle Offline OP
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I like you all thinking about being with your family and thinking of all those Lizards. Since Lizard behavior is quite visible, I think this is a way of getting closer to your kids, too. Are they Safe or Unsafe? Are they Playing and Nurturing or Freezing and Submitting?

Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #45743
01/06/11 04:15 AM
01/06/11 04:15 AM
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I've got a BRILLIANT 15 year old boy at a private school who has no lizard behavior and it is scaring me to death.

This child would argue with God himself and not have his heart rate go up. As a freshman today he got called down for not having a written quote from Ghandi-- son was absent yesterday so didn't know the assignment ahead of time, but was able to rattle off from memory four quotes he had memorized over time because they meant something to him.

He got no credit for his knowledge of each quote and its historical context, which he also knew because it wasn't presented in the format the teacher expected,

I told him it was a comment on the system, not on him.

And we talked about how unsafe school seems to him because when he knows stuff a regular 15 your old wouldn't know, it is treated as suspect

But not to me...


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: LadyGrey] #45878
01/06/11 03:54 PM
01/06/11 03:54 PM
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Northwest Washington State, US...
AlTurtle Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: seekingbalance
I've got a BRILLIANT 15 year old boy at a private school who has no lizard behavior and it is scaring me to death.


You may need to look closer, I'm guessing. Is he breathing? That is the behavior of a Lizard.

Originally Posted By: seekingbalance
This child would argue with God himself and not have his heart rate go up.



I dont' know. He might be a kid we can all admire. He might be a confident and cocky teen who is shame based and arrogant. He might just be what John Lee called a " Flying Boy ." Certainly sounds pretty bright, tho I distinguish brightness from wisdom.

I am glad he is 15 and is now on his own. Glad you got him to this age and it should be easier for you now. (I imagine he was a handful when younger.) Should be quite a sight to watch. I love watching the unique journeys that the young take in growing up.

Thanks for sharing.



Principles are simple. Applying them is a tough U-Do-It project. Go 4 it!
Al Turtle
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #54006
01/19/11 02:47 AM
01/19/11 02:47 AM
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AntigoneRisen Offline
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I've applied the lizard information quite well in regards to interruptions. Any time I am interrupted, I call a time out immediately. This has mostly been working to make me safe, although the last time I did it my partner argued with me about the time out, and went into the punishing silent treatment again. I got myself away pretty quickly after that, because I will not expose my lizard to that anymore at all.

I have found that I'm very bad at identifying when other people's lizard, particularly my partner's, is triggered. I really need to work on that.


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: AntigoneRisen] #54212
01/19/11 04:09 PM
01/19/11 04:09 PM
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Northwest Washington State, US...
AlTurtle Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: AntigoneRisen
I have found that I'm very bad at identifying when other people's lizard, particularly my partner's, is triggered. I really need to work on that.


I spend time with couples on recognizing their partner's Lizardy state. I think I will start a Topic 1b on this.


Principles are simple. Applying them is a tough U-Do-It project. Go 4 it!
Al Turtle
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #54581
01/20/11 12:35 AM
01/20/11 12:35 AM
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The Dark Side of the Moon
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Thanks! That will be a very valuable topic for me, and I do not think that I'm the only one.


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: AntigoneRisen] #189286
12/17/11 03:42 AM
12/17/11 03:42 AM
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LadyGrey Offline
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Al, much of the conversation here centers on threats to the marriage surrounding infidelity or its lesser kin, intolerance and unkindness.

I'm wondering how to deal with issues which arise outside the control of the spouses. In my case, obviously it is breast cancer, but before this we had a child crisis and in the interim a job loss (what a FUN five years!).

For example, last Sunday I decided it was the right thing to do to go to the symphony with my sister and parents. I did not want to go, but I believed it was the right thing to do. I have a strained relationship with my parents and my sister does EVERYTHING with them, plus she is handling my next chemo since my husband will be out of town so it seemed appropriate to support her.

I was at the time at the nadir of my ability to fight infection due to chemo so going out in public was iffy. My husband did NOT want me to go, his position being - correctly- that he would be left to take care of me. My position was I needed to do the right thing by my parents and my sister.

I was in lose/lose. Lots of unhappy lizards. Lizzy is actually still sulking as she doesn't think I give enough weight to keeping us healthy through chemo - took a six mile walk today but other than that did not leave the house.

Any suggestions for when he and I have different opinions on my treatment and how I handle it?


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: LadyGrey] #189379
12/17/11 11:57 PM
12/17/11 11:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
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Northwest Washington State, US...
AlTurtle Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
I'm wondering how to deal with issues which arise outside the control of the spouses.
I really like you bringing this up. I believe that there will be problems that occur within the relationship, but there certainly will continue to be problems that arise outside the relationship. Before I get to your particular question, I just wanted to add that I believe a major drive toward building a marriage or durable partnership is to that you two form a resource group, a place to go, to use teamwork in dealing with the gad-awful stuff that can and will come at you from the outside. I don't think we are designed to face those thingies alone, but with a partner or even a community. To me it has been tragic to be confronted with life's struggles and to be alone.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
In my case, obviously it is breast cancer, but before this we had a child crisis and in the interim a job loss (what a FUN five years!).
I had not heard that you were struggling with breast cancer. I'm sorry to hear that.

But I'd rather hear it than not hear it. And this is one of those things that can seem to come at a person (death is another) that are so much easier to handle when you have a buddy and a team. I recall one of my friends in Florida who, facing breast cancer, created what she flashingly called her "Boob Team" to be her support system. Link to Hedy's stuff.

She and others like her can speak to your challenges way far better than I can.

However I can noodle around with you about the situation.

My first thoughts are on how to continue building and maintain the team you have (your husband and friends and family) while taking care of you.

To do that I would suggest you get very clear about your boundaries. Now, first of all, your body belongs to you. Anybody can share their thoughts about your situation, but always always always, the final decisions about your body belong to you. That's my firm belief. And, of course, you carry full responsibility for what you choose to do, think, feel about it. While it would be nice, at times, to pass that responsibility onto others, you can't.

The awesomeness of that "loneliness" can feel pretty heavy and that, I think, is why we have friends and good partners. So that we don't feel that loneliness too much.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
For example, last Sunday I decided it was the right thing to do to go to the symphony with my sister and parents. I did not want to go, but I believed it was the right thing to do. I have a strained relationship with my parents and my sister does EVERYTHING with them, plus she is handling my next chemo since my husband will be out of town so it seemed appropriate to support her.
I often get a bit cautious when people speak of the "right thing to do," but this was, and is, your choice and I would fight for your right to make it.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
I was at the time at the nadir of my ability to fight infection due to chemo so going out in public was iffy.
I can see that.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
My husband did NOT want me to go, his position being - correctly- that he would be left to take care of me.
Well, you had his views, and that of your sister and your parents, and it's still your decision - not his or theirs.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
My position was I needed to do the right thing by my parents and my sister.
I'm with your. Only you can make that decision - that decision of what you think is the right thing to do.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
I was in lose/lose.
I don't get this. Seems to me a win/win - you are doing what you believe is the right thing - including all the input people have give you. What can you do that is better? Nothing. I salute you.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Lots of unhappy lizards.
Yup, that's why we have cortexes to let us make progressively wiser and wiser decisions. Only way we can make wiser decisions is to go ahead and make our best decisions, look at them later and decide we can next time do better. Gotta make 'em decisions in order to learn.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Lizzy is actually still sulking as she doesn't think I give enough weight to keeping us healthy through chemo - took a six mile walk today but other than that did not leave the house.
I suggest that you don't chat with Lizzy enough, tell her you are doing your best with 1000s of factors (which is more than she can do). Show her how you are doing your best and learning and she'll begin to trust you more. Gad how my Lizard loves that I can learn from my decisions!

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Any suggestions for when he and I have different opinions on my treatment and how I handle it?
Well,in my team, when it comes to one of these kinds of things (my right knee has finally worn out its cartilage, Sandra needed a hip replacement last winter, etc. --- hey, I'm 69!) we chat about lots of options, we share a lot, we don't rush if we are allowed time. But the final decisions about my body are mine, and those about Sandra's are her's. I firmly believe and maintain this and so does she. Makes decisions a lot easier - though still "heavy" at times.

Share more, if you want. I may have said some things that will trigger your thinking. So much the better.

(Personally, if I had breast cancer, I would call Hedy Schleifer that day. I would want data from a survivor.)


Principles are simple. Applying them is a tough U-Do-It project. Go 4 it!
Al Turtle
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #192163
01/01/12 03:15 AM
01/01/12 03:15 AM
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LadyGrey Offline
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Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
I'm wondering how to deal with issues which arise outside the control of the spouses.


Originally Posted By: Al
To me it has been tragic to be confronted with life's struggles and to be alone.


I can't say whether it is tragic or not, but it is certainly the way I have dealt with my life. I always viewed it as a sign of strength that I could handle everything on my own, except then one day you can't and that really sucks.

Leaving my husband aside for the moment, my brother and sister have been huge support. The experience has caused me to redouble my effort to build close relationships, tolerance and understanding between my own children.

You are a sibling longer than you are anything else. I remember the first time I read that thinking "that can't be right", but it is.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
In my case, obviously it is breast cancer, but before this we had a child crisis and in the interim a job loss (what a FUN five years!).


I did try to track down the link but it didn't lead to much of a discussion of her cancer that I could find.

Originally Posted By: Al
However I can noodle around with you about the situation.

My first thoughts are on how to continue building and maintain the team you have (your husband and friends and family) while taking care of you.


I don't want anyone taking care of me, period.

Originally Posted By: Al
Now, first of all, your body belongs to you. Anybody can share their thoughts about your situation, but always always always, the final decisions about your body belong to you. That's my firm belief. And, of course, you carry full responsibility for what you choose to do, think, feel about it. While it would be nice, at times, to pass that responsibility onto others, you can't.


You haven't met my children.

I say that tongue in cheek -- they were in fact quite vocal about my treatment. I don't have any regrets about my choices, at least not yet, but in truth my children have sufficient power that I would indeed do something I was unconvinced was in my best interests (upcoming drama being Tamoxifin for 5 years which I am against) so that there is no way they could be mad at me if I die of this.

I have lived most (all?) of my life hedging against people being mad at me. That goal has governed 90% of my decisions.

Originally Posted By: Al
The awesomeness of that "loneliness" can feel pretty heavy and that, I think, is why we have friends and good partners. So that we don't feel that loneliness too much.


This particular experience has thrown challenges at me in this department that I haven't even begun to process. I had chemo on Tuesday, today is Saturday and my parents haven't called to see if I am OK. How do I feel about that? I have no idea -- probably not good but now is probably not the time to look at it.

I am again faced with the question of whether to ask my mother to accompany to my easy infusion on Tuesday. I don't fully understand why I continue to consider this an option as I neither need nor want her there.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Lots of unhappy lizards.


Originally Posted By: Al
Yup, that's why we have cortexes to let us make progressively wiser and wiser decisions. Only way we can make wiser decisions is to go ahead and make our best decisions, look at them later and decide we can next time do better. Gotta make 'em decisions in order to learn.


The problem here being the decisions have to be made so damn quick. Crisis/response. It is territory with which I am intimately familiar -- actually probably most comfortable, but when the buzz of that fades, there is life to be lived and THAT is what I am not good at.

I'm the one you want around in the crisis though.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Lizzy is actually still sulking as she doesn't think I give enough weight to keeping us healthy through chemo - took a six mile walk today but other than that did not leave the house.


I have made peace with this, sort of. Getting healthy has to be my priority and right now that means doing little else besides sleeping (UNREAL -- 14-16 hours/day) trying to eat well and exercise. I am doing better at not feeling guilty.

My husband has done an absolutely superb job of leaving the decisions to me -- the symphony was an aberration and of course I got sick the next week. He gets really mad when anyone else expresses an opinion, but that is understandable seeing as how he is no doubt biting his tongue a lot.

I have to watch the getting secretive thing -- I can feel myself back tracking in not telling him things I am thinking/feeling/planning because I don't want to upset him. I had a health incident earlier this week I have been slow to discuss because I wanted the answer before I brought it up -- like it is going to be resolved by a blood test.

I have serious control issues -- Miss Lizz LOVES when she thinks I am in control -- then SHE does all the sleeping.

Last edited by LadyGrey; 01/01/12 03:16 AM.

Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: LadyGrey] #192248
01/01/12 08:37 PM
01/01/12 08:37 PM
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Northwest Washington State, US...
AlTurtle Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Originally Posted By: Al
However I can noodle around with you about the situation.

My first thoughts are on how to continue building and maintain the team you have (your husband and friends and family) while taking care of you.


I don't want anyone taking care of me, period.
I think you misread or I mis-wrote. You taking care of you adequately is the goal. Perhaps I should have written "while you are taking care of your" and my thought would have been more clear.

Originally Posted By: Al
Now, first of all, your body belongs to you.
You haven't met my children.[/quote]No I haven't. But I've met you a little. Enough to be able to imaging that you often/sometimes have and may still permit others to interfere with "you taking care of you."

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
I say that tongue in cheek -- they were in fact quite vocal about my treatment. I don't have any regrets about my choices, at least not yet, but in truth my children have sufficient power that I would indeed do something I was unconvinced was in my best interests (upcoming drama being Tamoxifin for 5 years which I am against) so that there is no way they could be mad at me if I die of this.
Yeah. My point exactly. Power, tis all about power. In most cases about power given away to others.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
I have lived most (all?) of my life hedging against people being mad at me. That goal has governed 90% of my decisions.
Glad you are getting rid of that. It's a habit not worth much, I fear.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
I am again faced with the question of whether to ask my mother to accompany to my easy infusion on Tuesday. I don't fully understand why I continue to consider this an option as I neither need nor want her there.
Confusion to me, seems like "clarity" right before it happens. Asking Mom so she won't be mad perhaps?

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
The problem here being the decisions have to be made so damn quick. Crisis/response. It is territory with which I am intimately familiar -- actually probably most comfortable, but when the buzz of that fades, there is life to be lived and THAT is what I am not good at.
Yup. Could lead you to be attracted to crises, even help create them, cuz they are familiar to you. (Am I getting a picture of your childhood here?)

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
I'm the one you want around in the crisis though.
Probably. But then if I want to take time to solve my crisis, you might not be much help. Might be a pain.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Lizzy is actually still sulking as she doesn't think I give enough weight to keeping us healthy through chemo - took a six mile walk today but other than that did not leave the house.
Yup. I've come used to the idea that the part of me that wants to die is a real challenge for my Lizard. However, I'm learning that as I get older this is not completely the case.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
I have made peace with this, sort of. Getting healthy has to be my priority and right now that means doing little else besides sleeping (UNREAL -- 14-16 hours/day) trying to eat well and exercise. I am doing better at not feeling guilty.
Hooray.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
My husband has done an absolutely superb job of leaving the decisions to me -- the symphony was an aberration and of course I got sick the next week. He gets really mad when anyone else expresses an opinion, but that is understandable seeing as how he is no doubt biting his tongue a lot.
I think he sounds like a perfect Imago Match for you, offering the kind of "learning-to-deal-with-anger" as an adult practice you could use.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
I have to watch the getting secretive thing -- I can feel myself back tracking in not telling him things I am thinking/feeling/planning because I don't want to upset him. I had a health incident earlier this week I have been slow to discuss because I wanted the answer before I brought it up -- like it is going to be resolved by a blood test.
YUp. Practice takes stretching into new behaviors. Moving forward and slipping back a bit at times seems normal.

Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
I have serious control issues -- Miss Lizz LOVES when she thinks I am in control -- then SHE does all the sleeping.
Makes the improvements in Boundary skills all the more valuable. Bless Miss Lizz.


Principles are simple. Applying them is a tough U-Do-It project. Go 4 it!
Al Turtle
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #205827
02/08/12 07:32 PM
02/08/12 07:32 PM
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TACticGAL Offline
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TACticGAL  Offline
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I have made the decision to move on from Ex#2. He's not willing to address the deal breakers in our relationship, and past performance has shown me that he will tell me that he will, but then will not.

So... I'm moving out into the dating world, and have already had a situation where I'm pretty sure I did something to freak his lizard out, though in honesty it may not have had anything to do with me as a person, just that actually being on a second date and having things go well might have done it.

Anyway, I'm wondering if there are ways to tell when someone else's lizard is about to freak when you don't know them very well.


Let me not be so vain to think I'm the sole author of my victories and and a victim of my defeats. -- ze frank
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: TACticGAL] #205950
02/09/12 01:24 AM
02/09/12 01:24 AM
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AlTurtle Offline OP
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AlTurtle  Offline OP
Retired Therapist
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Northwest Washington State, US...
Originally Posted By: TACticGAL
Anyway, I'm wondering if there are ways to tell when someone else's lizard is about to freak when you don't know them very well.
Good question. For me the best answer has been to get very aware of all the kinds of lizardy things that people do, which most people are unaware or untrained to see. Over the years I've come to see lots of Flee, Freeze, Submit, Fight stuff and my goal, like yours perhaps, is to become aware of this before the new person's Lizard goes completely whacko.

I think that Lizards almost always give lots and lots of warnings. I don't think they want to go whacko. They want someone to "notice" and "back off." And so I believe the only way I am gonna be caught off guard by someone's reactivity is if a) they have already built up to a pretty high level of panic before I meet them or b) I am just blind.

To deal with the first situation I keep a special watchful eye on people when I meet them. This happens all the time when people walk into my room. I pause for a moment to look at the person (maybe not in the eye) and to get a sense of "how they make me feel." Looking at them, how does my Lizard feel, on a scale of 0 - 10, "nice and safe" to "whoa! what's going on here."

To deal with the second situation I learn more and more about myself and my blind spots. Where am I, have I been, unaware of what is going on in other people. It really has helped to reduce my own narcissism and self-centeredness over the years. I try to never assume that people are feeling the way I am feeling. Mostly I use my learnings about my Lizard to help.

Seems to be a lifelong project. Oh, and given the Map of Relationship, new people are going to be scary and scared and resistant and blockheaded, just like the last one --- tho differently. Good luck.


Principles are simple. Applying them is a tough U-Do-It project. Go 4 it!
Al Turtle
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #205952
02/09/12 01:26 AM
02/09/12 01:26 AM
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TACticGAL Offline
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TACticGAL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: AlTurtle
Oh, and given the Map of Relationship, new people are going to be scary and scared and resistant and blockheaded, just like the last one --- tho differently. Good luck.


Yeah. Back in the dating world is the last place I wanted to be at this point in my life, but it is what it is. I need to get out there now and make the best of it, and make better choices than I have in the past.

I hope. smirk


Let me not be so vain to think I'm the sole author of my victories and and a victim of my defeats. -- ze frank
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: TACticGAL] #372722
01/08/15 02:25 AM
01/08/15 02:25 AM
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LadyGrey Offline
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How do you calm your lizard when your lizard declines to give you data on what has her so agitated?


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: LadyGrey] #372758
01/08/15 04:05 PM
01/08/15 04:05 PM
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Northwest Washington State, US...
AlTurtle Offline OP
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AlTurtle  Offline OP
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Northwest Washington State, US...
Good question and straightforward answer. I've lived studying the Lizard for a bunch of years and done a lot of figuring out.

In general, my Lizard never tells me anything. It just does what it does. This seems the original "actions are louder than words." It is my task, my cortex thinking brain's job to figure out what it is saying by its actions.

First clue is a) is it into fear (death), or b) is it into safety ("we're gonna live"). AND to what degree: slight, minor, major, panic/frantic.

Second clue is when did it start to feel fear? Often the "onset" is pretty quick and dramatic and noticeable. Sometimes I don't notice it for a while, so I have to guess at the "onset."

Third clue is what was going on at the time of the "onset" both in my world (where was I, who was there, what changed or happened) or in my inner world (what was I thinking about, recalling, visualizing, dreaming).

Over time I have found patterns that point to the triggers to my Lizard's fear.

Calming a Lizard is the process in reverse. I look for memories of when my Lizard is calm or playful. I then look for what I am doing at the time, where am I, who am I around. Then I move in those directions in order to calm my Lizard - remembering that it will always take at least 20 minutes for my efforts to work.

I recall being on my ship in the Navy in the middle of a typhoon. Sure we were all going to die. Lizard was wild - mucho seasick. Lots of drowning at night imaginations. Suddenly someone told me that one of my responsibility pieces of equipment was getting torn overboard. I and my crew ran out on deck, in the middle of the night, and lashed the antenna that had broken loose down to a railing. During that whole event and for sometime afterwards, I wasn't scared or seasick or anything. Lizard was awake but focused. I think my lizard like focused tangible work much more than calm physically quiet nightmares.

I bet there are lots of clues you have as to what triggers, and when, your lizard. One problem that comes to mind is when people tell you that something is not scary and your Lizard sees it as scary. I always trust my Lizard to be right and consider those people a source of danger.

Good luck.


Principles are simple. Applying them is a tough U-Do-It project. Go 4 it!
Al Turtle
Re: Topic 1a: Applying "The Lizard" - Building Trust [Re: AlTurtle] #373020
01/09/15 11:11 PM
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AntigoneRisen Offline
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One of the difficulties I've encountered is that the lizard's reaction may be due to something that isn't readily apparent. The connection often eludes the cortex.


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

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