Who's Online Now
1 registered members (Blair), 9 guests, and 39 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
 Trending Topics(Posts)
1.I declare myself MA's first official thread killer2
2.Am I still a doormat?2
3.Hearts Blessing1
4.Financial counselor says communication is key when mixing money and marriage - Grand Forks Herald0
5.Daughter says father made ominous threats if his wife sought a divorce - Portland Press Herald0
6.A Straight Spouse Of A Gay Husband Speaks Out0
7.Rise Above Past Relationship Failures - Psychology Today0
8.Toxic Relationship dynamics0
9.Ask Amy's very bad advice on affairs0
10.Women Who Don't Orgasm - Psychology Today0
*By replies in last 2 weeks.
In The Media(Posts)
Woman urges NC lawmakers to end child marriage: For her it was a ‘life sentence’3
COVID-19 and the Increased Likelihood of Affairs3
Does anyone remember this story?3
Validation to find-win-win slutions2
Things men want3
These Are The Signs You're Dating A Narcissist3
Girlfriend's 'controlling' list of 22 rules for boyfriend goes viral: 'She sounds crazy'9
What Divorced Men Wish They Had Done Differently In Their Marriages7
Alienation of Affection / Criminal Conversation9
Would you pay your ex a 'break-up fee'? - BBC3
more >>
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 8 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: NeverGuessed] #341227
03/22/14 04:22 AM
03/22/14 04:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
star*fish Offline OP
Board of Directors
star*fish  Offline OP
Board of Directors
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
NG…. huh? I didn't accuse you of plagiarism. I didn't understand why you would do a "clique translation" on a quote written by an author unrelated to this site. Sorry, it didn't make sense to me.

I'm glad TC's meaning was not lost in the portion that was left. Doesn't that mean that the meta-portion was not necessary to make his meaning known? It kind of proves my point doesn't it?


"Yes, I'll have the love combo, open faced with a side of respect and large a glass of forgiveness, easy on the ice please--my brother
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341228
03/22/14 04:33 AM
03/22/14 04:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
star*fish Offline OP
Board of Directors
star*fish  Offline OP
Board of Directors
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
poet…we were cross-posting. Telly only has one recent post I think…and it's in there.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "leaving people out". Are you saying that everyone should participate? It doesn't seem like most people would even want to.


"Yes, I'll have the love combo, open faced with a side of respect and large a glass of forgiveness, easy on the ice please--my brother
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341231
03/22/14 05:06 AM
03/22/14 05:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,933
poet Offline
Member
poet  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,933
No, I'm saying that some people would be left out if you took a vote or only put people in that were "trusted" by the usual posters who post here. For instance, most of the usual posters might pick CajunRose because they "trust" her. But, nobody would pick someone like me because I'm unpopular. Not that I would want to volunteer, but just using me as an example because I don't want to name anyone else. See where it got me yesterday?

Last edited by poet; 03/22/14 05:07 AM.

I thank God for all the times he saved my life, for putting all the people in my path who helped save it, and all the other people I met along the way.
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: poet] #341246
03/22/14 01:29 PM
03/22/14 01:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,804
NewEveryDay Offline
Advocate
NewEveryDay  Offline
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,804
Trying to recap to see whether I am up to speed here,

Mark started a thread because some folks were feeling and being silenced

One issue that was identified was rescuing

The proposed solution is eliminating harmful forms of meta discussion

The result would be folks would no longer feel silenced


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: NewEveryDay] #341253
03/22/14 01:50 PM
03/22/14 01:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
star*fish Offline OP
Board of Directors
star*fish  Offline OP
Board of Directors
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
oh ok poet….I understand. Believe me, this won't be selected by popularity. An understanding of how meta works and how to identify it would be the important thing.


"Yes, I'll have the love combo, open faced with a side of respect and large a glass of forgiveness, easy on the ice please--my brother
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341256
03/22/14 01:57 PM
03/22/14 01:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 794
NeverGuessed Offline
Suspended
NeverGuessed  Offline
Suspended
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 794
star*fish,

Ahhh, I got it now! My line that you said was written by a non-MA writer ("rise above it", etc) may well have not been directed at/to MA, but it was presented here as support for just such a "placid" reaction, so regardless of its genesis, I believe it would have been fair game for analysis/reply on this thread, yes?

And TC_M really did show he understood my position with his reference to the "shark-tank" attacks of the meta-powered (and pm-assisted) cliques. If you've never been spun 'round by such well-organized tactics, my friend, I envy you.

Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341259
03/22/14 02:00 PM
03/22/14 02:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
star*fish Offline OP
Board of Directors
star*fish  Offline OP
Board of Directors
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
Yes NED…that is a good recap.

The only thing I would add is that between the discussion about "silence and rescuing" and me starting this thread about meta, Marks thread was completely hijacked by meta, when it became too much to really save, it went to the TD where (where it reached some new zebra lows) and had to be locked.

meta-alert:
Click to reveal..
That could have been a very good thread. Mark made an honest effort to address a topic that was really relevant to many posters. He spent hours and hours on research and responses…and now it's just a joke in the TD.


"Yes, I'll have the love combo, open faced with a side of respect and large a glass of forgiveness, easy on the ice please--my brother
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341262
03/22/14 02:07 PM
03/22/14 02:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,398
T
TC_Manhattan Offline
Member
TC_Manhattan  Offline
Member
T
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,398
Originally Posted By: Starfish
I'm glad TC's meaning was not lost in the portion that was left. Doesn't that mean that the meta-portion was not necessary to make his meaning known? It kind of proves my point doesn't it?


Not entirely, as my response was to SW, and I don't know if she ever read it, let alone understood what I meant.

I am a bit concerned that the practice of parsing everything for meta will end up shifting much of the interpersonal dialogue on this forum to the underworld of PM's. If that dialogue were undertaken with hostile intent, it would be prudent to eliminate it from public forum. But that issue of free speech if it were, can be a very slippery slope. It can stifle healthy dialogue as well, and also can alienate folks who then end up not knowing what the underlying dynamics are/were.

The more we talk about this meta issue, the clearer the problem of hostile personalities infecting the forum becomes to me. Until recently, I have only been aware of the animosities on a subliminal level (probably because I was not involved.) Now the issue of meta, and how it can be used as a weapon of subversion is so much more obvious to me.

I hope my comments here do not constitute further meta.

My thoughts.

Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341263
03/22/14 02:12 PM
03/22/14 02:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
star*fish Offline OP
Board of Directors
star*fish  Offline OP
Board of Directors
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
NG,

Quote:
Ahhh, I got it now! My line that you said was written by a non-MA writer ("rise above it", etc) may well have not been directed at/to MA, but it was presented here as support for just such a "placid" reaction, so regardless of its genesis, I believe it would have been fair game for analysis/reply on this thread, yes?


No, the line was presented as something we might be able to include in an area where people could read about what constitutes meta-discussion and how to avoid it. I wouldn't mind a real analysis where you explained why it would probably be ineffective…but you did the same thing to me (discredit) that you complained was done to you.


Quote:
And TC_M really did show he understood my position with his reference to the "shark-tank" attacks of the meta-powered (and pm-assisted) cliques. If you've never been spun 'round by such well-organized tactics, my friend, I envy you.


You're new here. I was the "president" (until recently) from the beginning of this forum. Before that, I was the public enemy number one over on MB. You have no idea what I know about shark attacks. But it still doesn't make me want to get out of the ocean.

Maybe we "need a bigger boat" HA!


"Yes, I'll have the love combo, open faced with a side of respect and large a glass of forgiveness, easy on the ice please--my brother
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341264
03/22/14 02:18 PM
03/22/14 02:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
star*fish Offline OP
Board of Directors
star*fish  Offline OP
Board of Directors
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
TC…your comments are not more meta! I understand your misgivings too. It's going to take actually putting something into practice before we'll see if it helps or hurts. Right now we've done nothing, and even if we decide to try something…we're not locked into it if we see it doing more harm than good.


"Yes, I'll have the love combo, open faced with a side of respect and large a glass of forgiveness, easy on the ice please--my brother
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341267
03/22/14 02:30 PM
03/22/14 02:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,804
NewEveryDay Offline
Advocate
NewEveryDay  Offline
Advocate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,804
Star, you're right, there was the part that we were all talking about so many things at the same time on Mark's thread. But the days before it was closed, there was also so much good effort there that Miranda posted this

Quote:
Someone should compile a "best of" from this thread and make a notable post for it.


Poet, I think this is the post you are asking for, about the solution proposal of specific folks posting friendly self-edit reminders is 341113

The other idea was a sticky up at the top of certain forums 341091


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341269
03/22/14 02:34 PM
03/22/14 02:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,398
T
TC_Manhattan Offline
Member
TC_Manhattan  Offline
Member
T
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,398
Thanks Starfish!

And as for this part..
Originally Posted By: Starfish
Maybe we "need a bigger boat" HA!


well, maybe what we need is a harpoon.


Much of this dissent about meta, I think, is really about folks behaving badly, and letting their internal, personal demons wreak havoc on the board with overt displays of hostility. If that were eliminated, life would be soooo… good.

Meta is one of the only weapons they have.

Thanks again.

Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: TC_Manhattan] #341275
03/22/14 02:54 PM
03/22/14 02:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,120
S
SmilingWife Offline
Global Moderator
SmilingWife  Offline
Global Moderator
S
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,120
Originally Posted By: TC_Manhattan
Originally Posted By: Starfish
I'm glad TC's meaning was not lost in the portion that was left. Doesn't that mean that the meta-portion was not necessary to make his meaning known? It kind of proves my point doesn't it?


Not entirely, as my response was to SW, and I don't know if she ever read it, let alone understood what I meant.

I am a bit concerned that the practice of parsing everything for meta will end up shifting much of the interpersonal dialogue on this forum to the underworld of PM's. If that dialogue were undertaken with hostile intent, it would be prudent to eliminate it from public forum. But that issue of free speech if it were, can be a very slippery slope. It can stifle healthy dialogue as well, and also can alienate folks who then end up not knowing what the underlying dynamics are/were.

The more we talk about this meta issue, the clearer the problem of hostile personalities infecting the forum becomes to me. Until recently, I have only been aware of the animosities on a subliminal level (probably because I was not involved.) Now the issue of meta, and how it can be used as a weapon of subversion is so much more obvious to me.

I hope my comments here do not constitute further meta.

My thoughts.


I did read it including the paragraph that is now deleted. I didn't fully get what you were saying, but I think I do this morning. I have focusing on helping a newbie. I am being very conscience of meta and trying to just help him.

I too have never been involved in behind the scenes crap so a lot of this stuff goes over my head even though I've been involved with some of these boardies for 7 years.

Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: SmilingWife] #341276
03/22/14 02:57 PM
03/22/14 02:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,398
T
TC_Manhattan Offline
Member
TC_Manhattan  Offline
Member
T
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,398
Thanks, SW.

Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: TC_Manhattan] #341283
03/22/14 03:34 PM
03/22/14 03:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 13,424
midwest
Miranda Offline
Global Moderator
Miranda  Offline
Global Moderator
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 13,424
midwest
Originally Posted By: TC_Manhattan


The more we talk about this meta issue, the clearer the problem of hostile personalities infecting the forum becomes to me. Until recently, I have only been aware of the animosities on a subliminal level (probably because I was not involved.) Now the issue of meta, and how it can be used as a weapon of subversion is so much more obvious to me.




This is a problem for me as well. I am totally oblivious to this behind the scenes/under the surface hostility and animosity. You basically have to hit me in the face with it before I "get it" and I have a very hard time keeping track of who has a long standing beef with who. This probably makes me a poorly equipped to be a mod, honestly because I can't keep track of that stuff like others can.

It gets me really frustrated when I see bizarre stuff crop up that I can't make sense of then someone cues me in that it is due to something like that.

Last edited by Miranda; 03/22/14 05:23 PM. Reason: phone typos

When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: Miranda] #341303
03/22/14 05:17 PM
03/22/14 05:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,933
poet Offline
Member
poet  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,933
Thanks, Ned for the reference. I'm glad you were following my confusion and I happily read both posts that you pointed to.

Star* I have been thinking and mulling over your post about which forums constitute having no meta. I can't speak to the rest of them but I did have to say one thing about the Carport, where I have a thread. And, it's important to ME. I can't speak for others my thread, which is the one thread I have felt veritably *safe* where "safe" is a relative term, is bound by the rules of MA. And, nondestructive meta happens there already, to my knowledge. Now, you may have addressed this already, so I missed it, but:

I also know that, if not now, at least in the future, I plan to use it as my go-to thread when I know I will feel safe. Safe from onlookers and monsters who lurk in the MA darkness is key for me. If that forum is for people in crisis who need to feel safe, and sometimes feeling "safe" denotes a bit of banter between the participants, then I propose that *non-destructive* meta be allowed.

No one who is there (and I'm going to stop referring to *it* by name and hope others will too) is there because of meta. They are there to feel safe. Just sayin'


I thank God for all the times he saved my life, for putting all the people in my path who helped save it, and all the other people I met along the way.
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: Miranda] #341324
03/22/14 10:00 PM
03/22/14 10:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 794
NeverGuessed Offline
Suspended
NeverGuessed  Offline
Suspended
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 794
I have a very hard time keeping track of who has a long standing beef with who.

Miranda, you are a treasure for that reason!

For us mere mortals, who know EXACTLY who has been knifing whom, publicly and pm-ingly, I would suggest on the profile page, we have the anti-UBB buddies listing - "Members with whom this member shares an abiding contempt and hatred"

devil Oh, ohhh, can I moderate that?
angel Shut UP!

Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341327
03/22/14 11:23 PM
03/22/14 11:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,747
T
Telly Offline
Member
Telly  Offline
Member
T
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,747
Originally Posted By: star*fish
Telly!! omg! Really?

I'm actually hoping to avoid more PB if possible, and give people an opportunity to self-edit first…so they have some control over how it's edited. If they ignore that opportunity (and haven't broken TOS), the mods can edit and send it to the TD, where they can continue to debate-away from the help thread. If they've already broken TOS before they get a chance to edit…then they will be subject to regular moderation and moved to the TD. If they continue beyond that point…they'll almost certainly end up in the PB. The uproar about the PB is kind of amazing to me too.


LOL!!! Star*fish, was your 'OMG really?' about more time in the PB?

I'm sure your idea about moving things to the TD is better. (I'm chuckling to myself because I'm in the midst of developing "appropriate consequences" for my girls for their respective ages. Can't you just see that in the tone of my post?)

laugh


Last edited by Telly; 03/22/14 11:24 PM. Reason: clarity

Married 13 years
D10
D5
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: Telly] #341340
03/23/14 02:43 AM
03/23/14 02:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
star*fish Offline OP
Board of Directors
star*fish  Offline OP
Board of Directors
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
The "omg really" was my shock when you actually volunteered...somebody pinch me!


"Yes, I'll have the love combo, open faced with a side of respect and large a glass of forgiveness, easy on the ice please--my brother
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341341
03/23/14 02:53 AM
03/23/14 02:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,933
poet Offline
Member
poet  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,933
Hey Star*

My last comment was serious. I guess I didn't pose a question with it. Will you be putting restrictions on that?


I thank God for all the times he saved my life, for putting all the people in my path who helped save it, and all the other people I met along the way.
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341343
03/23/14 03:43 AM
03/23/14 03:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,747
T
Telly Offline
Member
Telly  Offline
Member
T
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,747
Lol!

Well, it's a topic for which I have some interest.

smile


Married 13 years
D10
D5
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341386
03/23/14 10:33 PM
03/23/14 10:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,918
Canada
*
*~aeri~* Offline
Member
*~aeri~*  Offline
Member
*
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,918
Canada
Quote:
I would be willing to participate on the "meta-alert" team.


Good job, Telly...I would be willing, as well.

There are times when I'm reading at MA when everyone else is still in bed or just not online. Perfect time to send out friendly reminders on meta.

There ya go, Star...two volunteers, already!


Married my best friend 7/23/05



Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: *~aeri~*] #341392
03/24/14 12:45 AM
03/24/14 12:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
star*fish Offline OP
Board of Directors
star*fish  Offline OP
Board of Directors
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,010
Poet raises the same questions and concerns that continue to come up from other posters as well. People seem worried that doing something about the meta-discussion will ruin the free flow of conversation and creativity on the forum, and some posters have expressed uneasiness about making a mistake.

Don't worry about making mistakes. TOS is not going change. So as long as you don't break TOS (and not many people do), then even if you post something meta, it probably won't be the destructive kind. As far as the free-flow of discussion...I really believe that there is come confusion about what is meta-discussion and what is only "off-topic".

Quote:
2. Off topic not meta-discussion

These are discussions that are not meta-discussion but are off-topic. On a forum about Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, a comment, post or discussion about the latest discoveries in biochemistry would be irrelevant and off-topic but not meta- discussion. So would a discussion about the artistic merits of Charles Baudelaire's Les Fleurs du Mal.

Either of these two subjects might conceivably arise in the course of discussing Atlas Shrugged but to remain on-topic the focus of the comment, post or discussion should be on Atlas Shrugged, not on these other subjects.

These discussions, whether on-topic or off-topic, would be first-order or object level discussions rather than meta-discussion (second-order discussion).


^^^^This is what I think most people are worried about losing. The majority of posts that meander around on free-flowing discussions around here...are still first order discussions. They may be off topic...but not meta-discussions.

It's the "second-order" (discussions about the discussions) that are meta. And even most of those are relatively low priority for any moderation.

There are four main categories listed:

1. Comments about the attributes of the particular discussion.
2. Comments about the attributes of a particular poster.
3. Comments about writing style.
4. Comments about the website or forum on which the discussion appears.

Please read the article and look at the examples. But even without the examples or any designation...most of you will recognize it when you see it.

Telly and aeri....if the board is willing to try this out, I'm pretty sure they would be thrilled to have you two as volunteers.




Last edited by star*fish; 03/24/14 12:46 AM.

"Yes, I'll have the love combo, open faced with a side of respect and large a glass of forgiveness, easy on the ice please--my brother
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341462
03/24/14 05:05 PM
03/24/14 05:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,747
T
Telly Offline
Member
Telly  Offline
Member
T
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,747
smile


Married 13 years
D10
D5
Re: meta meta everywhere and not a drop to drink [Re: star*fish] #341517
03/25/14 02:50 AM
03/25/14 02:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 141
K
KeepTalking Offline
Member
KeepTalking  Offline
Member
K
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 141
My two cents FWIW: I read a good portion of this thread, and despite being new to MA, have been a very active member on an addiction forum for 8 years, so I've seen meta and even participated in it in my less-enlightened days.

Anyhow, I feel my thread has had a good balance of comments and ideas, and a healthy differing in advice/comments from people who are obviously coming from very different places. I have not felt anyone disrespecting anyone else, and as the OP it has meant the world to me that these good people are thinking about me and about what I might NOT be thinking about in my muddled state, even if it's not something I really want to hear.

And precisely because people come here in a muddled state is it so vital to do a quick self-check and make sure we are responding to the OP and not to the other posters....that's mostly ego (at least it was for me when I engaged in it) and only in rare cases does it add to the conversation, IMHO. So even though I am in NO position to offer anyone any sort of counsel here on MA, I am in a position to do that elsewhere and try always to be mindful of the delicate state of a new arrival's emotions and turmoil.

Thanks to everyone who has engaged me in respectful and thoughtful conversation from different angles.


On particularly rough days when I think I can no longer endure, I like to remind myself that my track record for getting through bad days so far is 100%, and that's pretty good.
Page 8 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Moderated by  Fiddler 

Newest Members
Love_Smacked, starfire, JoyfulMimi, bruers, shattered72
2048 Registered Users
Latest Topics(Posts)
Hearts Blessing2
Woman urges NC lawmakers to end child marriage: For her it was a ‘life sentence’3
63 Marriage Facts1
COVID-19 and the Increased Likelihood of Affairs3
Updates Divorce Stats4
no more rainbow members?9
BR - The Art of War - Sun Tzu5
Questions & Answers About Marriage---responses from 7-10 year old kids4
seeing new members on mobile version5
Return of the Goddess31
Community Information
2048Members
1Penalty Box
6Suspended

42

Forums
8500Topics
463368Posts
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1
(Release build 20180111)
Page Time: 0.031s Queries: 15 (0.009s) Memory: 3.3822 MB (Peak: 3.7467 MB) Zlib enabled in php.ini Server Time: 2021-09-18 05:13:32 UTC