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Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: NewEveryDay] #335158
02/12/14 03:52 AM
02/12/14 03:52 AM
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Jayne, Orchid, I am really looking forward to seeing where this all leads. It seems like a good time for change, when your DHs are so unhappy with status quo that they are picking increasingly unproductive methods to get your attention. I am hoping that validating, coming to understand that status quo isn't working for either of you, and a sense of curiosity will lead you to explore options that will lead to satisfying marriages that will last a lifetime. Or at a minimum long-term respite from living with active passive aggressive behavior.


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: NewEveryDay] #335169
02/12/14 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: NewEveryDay
Jayne, Orchid, I am really looking forward to seeing where this all leads. It seems like a good time for change, when your DHs are so unhappy with status quo that they are picking increasingly unproductive methods to get your attention. I am hoping that validating, coming to understand that status quo isn't working for either of you, and a sense of curiosity will lead you to explore options that will lead to satisfying marriages that will last a lifetime. Or at a minimum long-term respite from living with active passive aggressive behavior.


Me 2.

I have no desire to be right all the time. I get accused of it but that's not my style. That was one measuring point for me when he did his A and both he and the OW ragged on me for thinking I was perfect.

Stupid A folks...... if there was one thing I knew, it was that I am not perfect. Not then or now. In fact that dumb excuse was often hurdled at me by the very ones who knew their buns were on the hot seat and they were desperate to divert attention elsewhere. Well, I'm not perfect but I am a pretty focused person so trying to throw me off track only pisses me off big time and welp..... the Ws and OW were doing a good job of that.

Moving forward to now, Ws moved towards being an Xws but not quite to the H stage. He's got that name but since he still holds onto that 'you think you're perfect card' plus he doesn't face his own or own his issues, it just makes meeting him more than 1/2 way even harder. Y? Because my boundary has planted itself on 1/2 way. I used to go past that a lot but found it only gave me a world of more work, less appreciate, cost more $$ and gave me a lot of hurt plus disappointment. Not much value for all that extra suffering. So my taker said move over giver and the giver got kicked back to the 50% line.

H knows this. He is ok with settling for less. Let's see, he is ok with me settling for less. He isn't interested in self-improvements......not from what I have seen. This man isn't getting older. He is now 51 and his grumbling is starting to put permanent marks on his face. Sigh......looks like he may be stuck with that face.

I know that when we get older our mouths tend to droop. Saw that in older folks many years ago and it was a small fear, I would be like that. Guess what? I am. frown Ok, laughter is good medicine, right? I need a double prescription. LOL!!! grin

I can look mean though......least my son thinks so. eek oh yea.....and some of my clients. wink

Ok Jayne, looks like we have challenging lives on our hands. What are we going to do?

Orchid

Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: NewEveryDay] #335178
02/12/14 01:19 PM
02/12/14 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: NewEveryDay
I'm talking about when someone makes a choice they would otherwise consider poor behavior, like cat's example of breaking the bowl, unless they consider the bowl-breaker *justified*. They are entitled to this because the other person pushed then so hard. Whether the other person was actually pushing them or not.
And IMO, I'm learning that the ONLY choice in situations like that is to show them a consequence. Without emotion, without punishing, just saying ouch and oh, here's your consequence. With the hope that, like kids, they eventually get it and decide to stop. (Although I'm not sure that works with anger issues.)

My H is a lot better than I paint him out to be. More earnest, more wanting to please me, pretty much every day. And 75% of time with him is pleasant, he's not being passive aggressive, not out to hurt me to soothe himself, like Miranda's husband, or dead set on not giving anything, like Jayne's husband seems to be. So it's worth it to explore fixing this. But when you have someone like the other husbands listed, when I KNOW Miranda and Jayne and Orchid are great people who most certainly do a lot to make their husbands happy and still get that from them...I just don't know the solution.

As has been said, you can't change them. But then what? Settle? Give up? I guess it still circles back around to boundaries. As usual.

Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Orchid2] #335220
02/12/14 04:10 PM
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Since in my judgment, this is still relevant to Jayne's situation, I am choosing to continue it. Hopefully it won'te be seen as a threadjack.

Originally Posted By: Orchid2
Orchid: Ok......where do we start? Realize that more things to consider can make finding the real issue/symptom harder.
I'm a bit confused by this. Are you saying that sticking with just one possibility (that may very well be "wrong") will make finding the "real" issue easier? What I'm advocating is that once the judgments are identified, that they be "suspended" - at least temporarily until more information is obtained. The problem with judgments like "you don't care about me" is that they tend to make obtaining that information less likely. More specifically - if you are interacting with someone who judges you in a negative way, are you more or less likely to be open and honest with them?

Originally Posted By: Orchid2
Originally Posted By: Fiddler
In brief: separate observations from judgments, recognize that judgments may be right or wrong, and notice how those judgments affect your beliefs and perspective about your spouse.

Orchid: This is the crux or near it, right? Judgements, are they always wrong?
See bolded phrase.

Originally Posted By: Orchid2
Observations vs judgements is that left for each person to decide? What happens when one sees it as an observation and the other insists it's a judgement? 2 different directions and no one is looking where the other went.
Observations are things that are ... well, observable. They are areas in which both spouses can objectively agree. For example, it is an observation that the jeans were on the chair at one point and were on the floor at another. It is a judgment that he threw them on the floor because he didn't care about your feelings.

Originally Posted By: Orchid2
Now for me, I do 'attempt' to look at me before I say something. I try to check to see if I am making a big thing out of nothing or having to say something because I need to. That's not an excuse, it is what I do in most situations.
From my perspective, "big thing" and "nothing" are both judgments. The more important question is whether it is something that I can accept as-is without resentment. If not, then it is something that is detrimental to both myself and to the relationship. Perhaps the reluctance to address a "small thing" is the belief that it will lead to a fight or argument.

Originally Posted By: Orchid2
Yet the recipient thinks I am making an issue over 'everything'. Can't tell you how devastating that can feel when I know that is not true. Then to hear the other use it as the excuse NOT to address the issue, well.....let's just say this Orchid doesn't like it. frown
This is evidence that he has felt unsafe - criticized, blamed, etc - and perhaps feeling that he can do nothing "right." IF this is the case (and note that these are judgments, so they may or not be), then addressing conflicts in a way that he feels "safe" will go a long way. How to do that is where I'm headed with this - and it takes unraveling a lot of this to get there.

Originally Posted By: Orchid2
He's ok with things as is but most people would not be. I am in the 'most people' group.
The more specific you can get with what "things" are not okay, the more likely it will be possible to resolve them. By teasing apart judgments from observations and focusing on what is observed, it becomes easier to work together as a couple to mutually acceptable outcomes. Without the "mutual" part, any "solution" will likely be sabotaged by one (or both) spouse. Instead of having a problem come between a couple, the idea is to get to a place where you are working together to solve it. Getting to that point, in my experience, requires unraveling a lot of stuff. To paraphrase Einstein, the kind of thinking that got a couple into their problematic situation will not get them out of it. If the status quo is acceptable to one spouse, then it is the other that must change their thinking if there is to be a satisfactory outcome.


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Fiddler] #335249
02/12/14 06:20 PM
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Fiddler,

Yes, we must keep this thread in line with Jayne's topic. I have thrown in my experience to show this challenge may not be as unique but it is still a hard one.

So from what I read on your post, it seems there is this box which I must find so H & I can communicate. Is that correct? I am not adverse to being told I am off base and need to readjust. Just need to be shown how to readjust. When it works, great. When that readjustment is just an attempt to deflect from the real issue......well that is where I have a problem.

You mentioned being judgmental in any given case can be 'right or wrong', it is not fair to assume that one will assume they are always right. Sometimes we ask a question to find out only to be met with utter silence or a deflective sarcastic remark (well, look you do other stuff that's bad/messy/dysfunctional, etc.)? Each time failing to address the real issue, the reason and work for a solution.

After all this talk not wonder we don't have more solutions happening.......to much bickering or one sided conversations (a highly judgmental conclusion, is it warranted)?

Guess my confusion is that when one does come to a conclusion or make a statement, why is it easy to say 'that's judgmental' and walk away? What are we suppose to do now?

Orchid

Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Orchid2] #335360
02/13/14 06:44 AM
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I see at least three topics I want to pursue, so please don't think that posting your on experiences is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

I'm just not up to posting right now, but I am reading. Thanks to everyone who cares enough to take the time to post. I am reading and it helps, and as soon as I can I will follow up with these different paths of discussion.


42.
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Jayne241] #335364
02/13/14 07:32 AM
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Jayne,

Didn't mean to go off topic. Please know that you have our support. I too am hoping to catch a piece of your 'aha moment'. smile

Hugz,
Orchid

Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Orchid2] #335421
02/13/14 05:25 PM
02/13/14 05:25 PM
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Aw, y'all weren't off topic! Please continue the discussin. I'm just laying low for now because I feel like everyone (present company excluded!) yells at me. But please, keep discussing.

When y'all have solved all my problems I'll let you know! Lol


42.
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Jayne241] #335482
02/13/14 09:03 PM
02/13/14 09:03 PM
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WHAT MAKES YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE YELLING AT YOU!?!?1?

oh.

oops.

Love ya, Jayne!

(Hang in there. wink )


Married 13 years
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Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Orchid2] #335491
02/13/14 10:10 PM
02/13/14 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Orchid2
So from what I read on your post, it seems there is this box which I must find so H & I can communicate. Is that correct? I am not adverse to being told I am off base and need to readjust. Just need to be shown how to readjust. When it works, great.
I think of it more as a channel of communication rather than a box. The idea is that by responding in a heart-centered way (i.e. seeing both myself and the other person as "okay") regardless of where they are, that they move into their heart. The key is to stay with the other person and discern from what they express where their pain is and what they want. I have found it is nearly impossible for a person (IRL) to keep attacking when they are met with understanding and empathy.

Originally Posted By: Orchid2
When that readjustment is just an attempt to deflect from the real issue......well that is where I have a problem.
It all depends - what the "real" issue is a matter of perspective in my view. I have found that validation actually makes it more difficult for one person to permanently run a topic off the rails. I have some specific ways of keeping things on the topic I wish when the conversation has started with something I want changed. That is, in this context I am also validating myself more than if I'm simply listening to the other person without an "agenda" of my own.

Originally Posted By: Orchid2
You mentioned being judgmental in any given case can be 'right or wrong', it is not fair to assume that one will assume they are always right.
I think most people do believe their judgments are "right." This is what makes them problematic when two people have diametrically opposed opinions - and which is why it is important to at least identify judgments, where the disagreements often lie, and observations, which are objective.

Originally Posted By: Orchid2
Sometimes we ask a question to find out only to be met with utter silence or a deflective sarcastic remark (well, look you do other stuff that's bad/messy/dysfunctional, etc.)? Each time failing to address the real issue, the reason and work for a solution.
Yes, this is a tactic that is sometimes used, and often works for the person. That doesn't mean we need to buy into it.

Originally Posted By: Orchid2
After all this talk not wonder we don't have more solutions happening.......to much bickering or one sided conversations (a highly judgmental conclusion, is it warranted)?
I assume this is referring to the fact that some issues in relationships keep coming up again and again and never result in a mutually satisfactory outcome, despite much time, energy, and effort being expended. My guess is that all the conversations serve to continue the impasse and harden the respective positions. I see validation as an important tool (although not the only one) in moving forward and breaking the cycle.

Originally Posted By: Orchid2
uess my confusion is that when one does come to a conclusion or make a statement, why is it easy to say 'that's judgmental' and walk away? What are we suppose to do now?
I'm not advocating saying that or walking away (although the latter may sometimes be necessary). Calling something a judgment is itself a judgment!


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Fiddler] #335613
02/15/14 01:12 AM
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Okay, I'll take the lack of responses to mean that nobody got too riled up with the most recent posts. I want to try to move things forward a bit. Let me start by restating the core conundrum:
  • You need to make a request of your spouse that will (possibly) require a change in what they have been doing or saying
  • Nobody - least of all your spouse - likes to be told what to do
  • You can only change yourself - you cannot change your spouse
What options does that leave? It seems bleak.
  1. You conclude that it's hopeless and give up
  2. You can tell your spouse what you want them to do. In which case, they may...
    1. Joyfully agree to the requested change without reservations
    2. Acquiesce and go along with the request, even though they don't want to, and do it with resentment
    3. Agree to the requested change, but fail to do it, or do it for a bit and then stop
    4. Resist the request and refuse
With option a., the change you wished for will not happen, and it is likely that resentment will build in you. Even if not, then a want or need in you is going unmet.

So look at option b. - you tell your spouse what you want them to change - using the most well-crafted "I message" of course!

If option i. happens, then hooray - problem solved! What are the chances though?

If option ii, then you may have solved your problem, but now have created one for your spouse.

If option iii., then you're pleased for a little while, but when it reverts back to the same-old same-old, you now see your spouse as being passive-aggressive or even untruthful.

If option iv., then you've now added one more conflict to the mix. Not only is your need not being met, but you likely start to see your spouse as an unfeeling jerk who doesn't care about you.

I have probably left some out, so please chime in if something you've experienced is not listed here. Or if you have a solution to this conundrum, then share that too!

ETA: I will get to the one I have soon...


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Fiddler] #335624
02/15/14 04:59 AM
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Aha! To the crux of the matter!

My comments/additions in blue...


Originally Posted By: Fiddler

What options does that leave? It seems bleak.
  1. You conclude that it's hopeless and give up This is the present plan.
  2. You can tell your spouse what you want them to do. In which case, they may...
    1. Joyfully agree to the requested change without reservations
    2. Acquiesce and go along with the request, even though they don't want to, and do it with resentment
    3. Agree to the requested change, but fail to do it, or do it for a bit and then stop
    4. Resist the request and refuse
    5. give no verbal or visible reaction
    6. appear to be receptive by smiling but giving no verbal response, so I continue talking, but he is actually not receptive and is getting angry/resentful/something so I stupidly think we have achieved connection



I promise I will address other comments soon...

Last edited by Jayne241; 02/15/14 05:03 AM.

42.
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Jayne241] #335626
02/15/14 05:55 AM
02/15/14 05:55 AM
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Hi...do you know if the way your husband is...now:

Is how he always has been?
Is how he coped in his FOO?
Is how he copes with people at work?
Is how he is with women?
Is how he is with most people?
Is how he is with his friends?


I am trying to figure out how entrenched you guys are in the present dynamic...


Formerly Baba, Stellakat, Bubbles

"Please remember that what I say here in this post is ONLY my opinion and it is not meant to offend in any way!"
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Kittycat] #335668
02/15/14 07:18 PM
02/15/14 07:18 PM
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http://www.familiesonlinemagazine.com/stonewalling.html#.Uv-8_vldV8E

AR found this article. It was in another post.


Formerly Baba, Stellakat, Bubbles

"Please remember that what I say here in this post is ONLY my opinion and it is not meant to offend in any way!"
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: herfuturesbright] #335670
02/15/14 07:33 PM
02/15/14 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: herfuturesbright
Quote:
Of course you are not a "bad person" - and neither is he - otherwise, why would a good person like yourself choose to marry him, and even choose to work on the marriage in the aftermath of much suffering?


I think the question in this statement is the really BIG consideration.


I'm a little late to this thread, but I did want to say that the premise in the above - you, a good person, would not have chosen to marry a not-good person - is not valid as a means of proving that the person you have married is, in fact, a good person.

Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Jayne241] #335762
02/16/14 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jayne241
Originally Posted By: Fiddler
What options does that leave? It seems bleak.
  1. You conclude that it's hopeless and give up This is the present plan.
  2. You can tell your spouse what you want them to do. In which case, they may...
    1. Joyfully agree to the requested change without reservations
    2. Acquiesce and go along with the request, even though they don't want to, and do it with resentment
    3. Agree to the requested change, but fail to do it, or do it for a bit and then stop
    4. Resist the request and refuse
    5. give no verbal or visible reaction
    6. appear to be receptive by smiling but giving no verbal response, so I continue talking, but he is actually not receptive and is getting angry/resentful/something so I stupidly think we have achieved connection

You have no idea why you have gotten these responses. And because you have experienced (v) and (vi) - and perhaps some of the others as well - you are now resigned to nothing ever changing.


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Fiddler] #335765
02/16/14 04:25 PM
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I think for me sometimes I am so pereplexed and frustrated by the results I get that I don't expect that I just throw up my hands and say "this will never work I might as well forget it"


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Miranda] #335771
02/16/14 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: Miranda
I think for me sometimes I am so pereplexed and frustrated by the results I get that I don't expect that I just throw up my hands and say "this will never work I might as well forget it"
And you've been content with the outcome of this approach.


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Fiddler] #335775
02/16/14 05:22 PM
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Aha moment:

I am reading but not replying, because to reply requires carefully thought out responses. And they are still "percolating." Actually, I prefer a metaphor of "proofing", or maybe "rising" as in bread starters. Almost no one uses a percolator anymore, do they?

Smilar to, it's easier to post an off-the-cuff post or email a reply than it is to post or email to someone or about something you really care a lot about.

A thread Ace just bumped is also very apropos for me.

I should just pick one sub thread and post whatever my current thoughts are, otherwise I'll never get started.


42.
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Jayne241] #335776
02/16/14 05:37 PM
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Yeah jayne, that happens to me, too, there is so much good stuff there I want to have a response that reflects at least as much care and consideration for my life and my experience as these folks have shown me! But often I've posted as like the ast cry of the onld thinking before zi shift to the new stuff that the others on my thread are talking about. So I am so caught up in making these changes in my life that is unfolding that it's the time when I least can come back and talk about it.

For me a rough draft response is good, and I can go back and revisit the content when I'm not so busy in making the actual changes.


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Orchid2] #335778
02/16/14 05:49 PM
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Quoting the posts i am replying to since they are a bit upthread:

Originally Posted By: Miranda
Originally Posted By: Orchid2


Example:
H: Why do you leave the mayo out? You know it will go bad.

W: I just took it out 2 minutes ago to make sandwiches. I am still making the sandwiches.

H: Oh.

Commentary: The need to jump to wrong conclusions instead of asking with care is more the norm than not. Now the sandwiches get mad with a bit of hot anger instead of mustard. Do I put that wilted piece of lettuce in his sandwich? Just kidding but you know the feeling may well up at times. Not doing my best just goes against my grain.....making it quite difficult to do less. eek frown



The quoted example is the mildest form of what goes on in my home over and over again every single day. It is the over riding color of every discussion that ever takes place. Always there is that judgment of my being careless, or inept or stupid or I don't know what. And then I become defensive, and then I get called out for being defensive.


Originally Posted By: Orchid2
Originally Posted By: Miranda
The quoted example is the mildest form of what goes on in my home over and over again every single day. It is the over riding color of every discussion that ever takes place. Always there is that judgment of my being careless, or inept or stupid or I don't know what. And then I become defensive, and then I get called out for being defensive.


Well it is a mild one as well, just a current one for me. I can post stronger ones but I can see that we get it. wink

My question is why.......what am I missing or doing to create what is felt like a hostile environment? Where I don't feel comfortable enough in my own home when H is home?

He was a WS but that alone is not an indicator. This is a much deeper issue, one which has pretty much worn me out.

If anyone can shed some light on this topic that can help us get to the crux of it and yank out the cause, please.......let me know. I will also need to know what tools (crowbar, pliers, saw, wrench, screwdriver, staple remover, scissors, etc.) I need.......do I go to the hardware or surgical supply store? Guys??????

jmo,
Orchid


My H does,this as well. What has worked for me is when I point out to him that he is assuming the worst and/or implying that I am stupid. Sometimes matter-of-factly, sometimes with humor, sometimes with the formulaic "when you say ____ I feel ______."

I am lucky in that after I started doing this consistently, he started sheepishly admitting it. I also had modeled being willing to apologize, and had accepted his apologies graciously. I'm not saying y'all haven't; I realize I am lucky that my H has been open to seeing that he does this. I didn't realize that other H's did it too.

I am trying to think of examples but none come to mind. Except one, that sometimes a boyfriend would do, which was a huge turnoff to me: if we are eating out and getting up to leave the restaurant, while I am gathering my stuff - putting on my coat, reaching for my purse - he will say "don't forget your car keys" before I've even had a chance to reach for them. Like, I am pulling on my coat. Of course I don't reach for my keys and hold them in my hand as I am trying to pull on my coat. I don't like the implication that without their assistance I would have forgotten my keys. I could react jovially, but that just reinforces their acting like they have to tell me what to do. Probably my getting annoyed at such behavior weeded out potential mates who would be more prone to treating me thusly.


42.
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Jayne241] #335784
02/16/14 06:08 PM
02/16/14 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jayne241
My H does,this as well. What has worked for me is when I point out to him that he is assuming the worst and/or implying that I am stupid. Sometimes matter-of-factly, sometimes with humor, sometimes with the formulaic "when you say ____ I feel ______."


Orchid: Good way to deal with it.

Originally Posted By: Jayne241
I am lucky in that after I started doing this consistently, he started sheepishly admitting it. I also had modeled being willing to apologize, and had accepted his apologies graciously. I'm not saying y'all haven't; I realize I am lucky that my H has been open to seeing that he does this. I didn't realize that other H's did it too.


Orchid: It's a positive sign on his part. Small but positive. Recognizing the positive signs are important but it doesn't mean it stops there. Mine makes some improvements. Backslides a bit at times and then moves forward. Since H comes from a large family, he is now seeing that others in his family have bad habits or mistreat others in ways that he finds unacceptable. It has been a teaching lesson for him as well.

I can connect the dots and so can others but it is often a challenge for those in the midst of their personal need to change/improve to see how important it is. Denial, minimizing may be come more the norm and then constantly sidestepping the need to basically improve one's manners and treat people with respect is kept in the dark. Getting H to see that has been difficult, he does see it and then he doesn't. Frustrating because it seems like such a simple concept. Treat people with respect.....hey, that includes your wife.

Originally Posted By: Jayne241
I am trying to think of examples but none come to mind. Except one, that sometimes a boyfriend would do, which was a huge turnoff to me: if we are eating out and getting up to leave the restaurant, while I am gathering my stuff - putting on my coat, reaching for my purse - he will say "don't forget your car keys" before I've even had a chance to reach for them. Like, I am pulling on my coat. Of course I don't reach for my keys and hold them in my hand as I am trying to pull on my coat. I don't like the implication that without their assistance I would have forgotten my keys. I could react jovially, but that just reinforces their acting like they have to tell me what to do. Probably my getting annoyed at such behavior weeded out potential mates who would be more prone to treating me thusly.


Orchid: Not sure if it is the mom in me but I am guilty of that. My problem is I want to avoid problems so making sure/double checking/reminders is my go to a lot. I do it to myself as well but I can see where it can irritate some. I weigh their irritation against the problem and well...... in my case when I don't say something and a problem comes up as a result......I get blamed. So add to those reasons....... I don't like to get blamed either. Been that way since I was a kid because my parents enforced the most ridiculous rule that I would get in trouble if someone else's kid did something wrong, even if we were not at home and in some cases I wasn't even near them when the 'crime' was committed. eek Small stuff like friend jumping on the bed at their house in their room and I was in the living room watching TV. Seems I was the oldest and should have known better. I did, that's why I wasn't with them. They said their mom let them jump on the bed. Who was I to argue? So I left, still I got in trouble. That wasn't good parenting on their part and now, I have to work hard on that habit of mine. Letting H leave stuff when I know it is in the wrong place but not causing major issues, is hard to do but it's a compromise. When he can't find where he put things.......he realizes it wasn't because I moved them and he can't complain I reminded him to put things away.

It's hard.........it can go both ways. I guess it is the reason behind the reminder that is the real issue. Avoid a problem or just being a jerk?

jmo,
Orchid

Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Orchid2] #335796
02/16/14 07:13 PM
02/16/14 07:13 PM
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Jayne241 Offline OP
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I definitely know from firsthand experience that it is required of any mom who doesn't want to continuously pay to replace items! Also I can see how being blamed for someone else forgetting the keys would lead one to preemptively remind them. Thanks for the insight into why someone might have developed such a habit. "Seek first to understand..."

For whatever reason they might have done it, I am thankful that I weeded out the guys who were most prone to do it.


42.
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: herfuturesbright] #335797
02/16/14 07:16 PM
02/16/14 07:16 PM
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Jayne241 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: herfuturesbright
Quote:
Of course you are not a "bad person" - and neither is he - otherwise, why would a good person like yourself choose to marry him, and even choose to work on the marriage in the aftermath of much suffering?


I think the question in this statement is the really BIG consideration.


The book I want to eventually pos excerpts from focuses on this. It focuses on "seeking to understand" and I think on coping mechanisms, instead of just b'ing about how horrible such people are.


42.
Re: Jayne's "Aha!" thread [Re: Jayne241] #335812
02/16/14 08:10 PM
02/16/14 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jayne241
I am trying to think of examples but none come to mind. Except one, that sometimes a boyfriend would do, which was a huge turnoff to me: if we are eating out and getting up to leave the restaurant, while I am gathering my stuff - putting on my coat, reaching for my purse - he will say "don't forget your car keys" before I've even had a chance to reach for them. Like, I am pulling on my coat. Of course I don't reach for my keys and hold them in my hand as I am trying to pull on my coat. I don't like the implication that without their assistance I would have forgotten my keys.
Or, like in my case I told DH Friday that I wanted to finish the living room in the morning (still needed to seal the new tile) so I could put the room back. Spend all day Saturday looking at solutions because the ones I give are ignored; he has to keep searching until he finds a solution HE discovers. We end up with none. So we come home and I start mopping the new floor with the water/vinegar solution given in all the sites I've found and he says no, wait, you have to use cheesecloth first. Which he had all afternoon/evening to say, but didn't, until the very moment I start pulling the bucket over to the floor. To me, that's a form of immasculation and I truly think he does it on purporse, waiting until I'm poised to start. So I spend all night on my hands and knees rubbing cheesecloth all over the entire 1000 square feet. And then again today, he tells me we're going to the grocery store to get a polish, despite me telling him what a FLOOR INSTALLATION DEALER told me over the phone the night before, to never ever put a sealer on porcelain tile. But H knows best, right? Not the professional. So then I get ready to clean the living room floor today with the stuff we bought anyway and just as I'm getting ready to do it, he says no, we're doing the dining room. I was in tears by then. Why am I even alive, if my brain is so worthless, you know? So I just quit. He's doing it all himself. Again.

And he has no clue why I'm so upset. (and yes, told him)

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