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Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: believer] #248892
07/24/12 12:42 PM
07/24/12 12:42 PM
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F&I:

Hope you get to drop in occasionally.


I am still bad at golf, but I keep trying.

I hope your DD is doing well, also.

SFB


Finding an ethical way to deal with pain, fear, disappointment etc..is part of the experience of becoming a stronger person...one who is driven by compassion instead of compulsion...ie I have a legitimate reason to be stressed out right now...however, my response to it will determine how others percieve me, and myself. (quoting Star*Fish)
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: FireAndIce] #248913
07/24/12 02:14 PM
07/24/12 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: FireAndIce
Just checking in for a moment!



Glad to see your post, FI. Sorry to hear about your mom. Hope you stop in more and I'm looking forward to your body language info when you can get to it.

Ace

Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: believer] #248995
07/24/12 08:07 PM
07/24/12 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: F&I
On another note? I think closing the TD has given a spiritual lift here. Something happier now, more focused.


If I recall correctly, you suggested this -- your contribution and opinions matter. Not to say the BoD wouldn't have done it anyway, but I probably wouldn't have been so in favor had I not traced the impact on the overall tone.

You have great insight.


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: LadyGrey] #248999
07/24/12 08:20 PM
07/24/12 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: LadyGrey
Originally Posted By: F&I
On another note? I think closing the TD has given a spiritual lift here. Something happier now, more focused.


If I recall correctly, you suggested this -- your contribution and opinions matter. Not to say the BoD wouldn't have done it anyway, but I probably wouldn't have been so in favor had I not traced the impact on the overall tone.

You have great insight.


Yes she does. I wish I had a pocket schoolbus.

Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: SmilingWife] #249003
07/24/12 08:28 PM
07/24/12 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: SmilingWife


Yes she does. I wish I had a pocket schoolbus.


Ditto. I have remembered some of the great schoolbus fireandice advice, and still use it. I REALLY look at writings/letters with a whole different mindset from before.


Last edited by lildoggie; 07/24/12 08:29 PM.

AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: Lil] #249636
07/28/12 07:44 PM
07/28/12 07:44 PM
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FireAndIce Offline OP
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I was browsing some old posts elsewhere that I had made, and found this one:

The question was "IF YOU'VE BEEN MARRIED FOR 30 PLUS YEARS, HOW DO YOU KEEP THE MAGIC ALIVE?"






Short answer: I resisted the urge to kill him when he sorely needed it.......JK!!!!!!!

Real answer:

1-We worked as a team toward common goals most of the time. We share a vision of where we want to be in the future, a common idea of what and where we want to go together, and we work together to get there. (We POJA'd when POJA wasn't cool.)

2-We have always accepted who the other person was and never tried to change one another.

3-We do not, ever, make disparaging remarks about one another to other people. We also do not call one another bad names, even during arguments.

4-We tell each other that we love each other, frequently, and do things so that the other person knows of our love.

5-We have mutual respect for each other's minds and bodies, as well as emotions and needs.

6-We take care of each other when one of us is sick. This includes bringing medicine, helping with dr. visits, and all the rest - including cleaning up messes if needed! You can never know how much you can feel loved until you are really sick, and someone takes good care of you when you really need to be taken care of.

7-We admit it when we are wrong. And apologize when we are stupid. Which, seems to occur frequently.

8-We make sure we laugh together.

9-We are gentle when we need to be, rough when it's called for, and silly the rest of the time. Most of the time, it's not hard to be silly, given the vast amount of stupid things we seem to get ourselves involved in doing - or that just OCCUR around here. For example, right now, the dog is snoring, so any number of puns could just explode momentarily from that!

10-We try always to come from a place of love. This allows us to remember to allow for forgiveness, gentleness, tranquility, smiles, tenderness, intimacy, and friendship.

There's probably more.

But the formula basically has worked for 32 years.

Despite his affair, I love him. It has been difficult to work back to a place to believing and understanding that even during his affair he never stopped loving me. He lost his way, caught up in his own fears of aging, a sense of distance from me, and loss of closeness to me that our own errors in maintaining vigilance over our love resulted in. We both can see what havoc is wrought when our guard is let down, and we fail to invest our time and attention in our relationship with one another.

Never again will that mistake be made. We are now much more aware of the "magic", which is really

hard work
attention to one another
vigilance
love
dedication
focus



So, no magic. Remember - there ain't no fantasy, a marriage is what YOU make it.


Some of you might have known me as Schoolbus.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: FireAndIce] #249637
07/28/12 07:50 PM
07/28/12 07:50 PM
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FireAndIce Offline OP
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This was one in response to a WH who was working on and manipulating a teenaged daughter into "understanding" and "supporting" his affair, because it was his chance at "finding true happiness and true love" blah blah blah. The girl was of course taking daddy's side, because kids believe in true love, and are easily swayed in matters that are encased in "love and happiness and pursuit of dreams".

My advice to the BW:





Your comment about your WH wanting to be "in control" of everything right now is really correct. He is working on the weakest link in the chain - your 14 year old. It is not a surprise to me that he is doing this. He understands teenagers, and knows that they tend to support the person they perceive as the underdog, or the person they believe to be "seeking their happiness". Chances are he has positioned himself with her as both of these - to embolden his stance and to get her on "his side". He is a pig, because he is manipulating her and HE KNOWS IT.

The way to fight this is with questions back to her.

When she comes to you standing up for him, do not fight or argue with her. Only ask her questions, and when she responds, don't argue - just nod your head and say things like, "I see" or "Maybe your perceptions are missing another point of view". Say nothing more, and do not engage her in any discussions regarding what she believes as her dad's needs or wants.

Your questions should be open-ended, and allow for her to state what she things aloud - because teens have a need to express ideas and hear their own opinions on things from their own mouths. Additionally, they want to be "heard", not corrected, guided, lectured, etc. If you present her with this open forum type of systematic listening, she will ultimately hear herself arguing "the wrong side"....and come to understand - without any help from anyone else - exactly what her father is doing and why it is wrong. You do not need to guide her, lecture her, or even stand your ground. It will amaze you.

When she stands up for him and chastises you for doing anything through this process, or criticises your stance:

Questions to ask sound like this...

I hear your disagreement with my approach. What would your approach be?

I understand you believe he is pursuing his happiness (or whatever the soup of the day is!), what do you believe happiness to be?

You're telling me that you believe it was incorrect for me to _____. Maybe you have heard of other ways to do this, and would like to offer me a suggestion for another way. Tell me your idea so I can hear what you have to say.

I can tell you are upset about ________. I want to know your ideas on what might repair things, or ways to better handle this situation.



After she responds, you only say things like:

Hmmmm.

I understand why you believe that.

Your life experience would probably lead you to believe that, so I do understand where you are coming from.

Thank you for sharing your feelings with me. I guess we just disagree on this one.

I know that for now you are torn between me and dad. I love you, and at some point maybe you will want to hear why I feel the way I do. For now, I am happy you were able to share your feelings and ideas with me.



Don't engage in useless fighting with her. Everything you say and do goes straight back to him, and IT WILL BE TWISTED. Guaranteed. During your Plan B, you can actually Plan A him by being a terrific mother, and by working as strongly and lovingly as you can with your kids, and fighting to love DD14 through this mess and his terrible influence.


She will ultimately thank you for it.

And yes, I know, it is just one more stressful job to do - that you never would have had to do if not for his affair.


Some of you might have known me as Schoolbus.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: FireAndIce] #249639
07/28/12 07:54 PM
07/28/12 07:54 PM
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FireAndIce Offline OP
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Here is one I posted to a man whose WW was making some tries to repair the marriage, but he wasn't sure if he wanted a divorce, to try again, or what:




Let's say you decide to divorce your wife. What can you expect to go through?

You will experience a rollercoaster of emotions. For the first few days and weeks after d-day (the day you discovered the affair), you will have moment-to-moment emotional swings the likes of which you have never before encountered in your life.

Your mood will go from crying, to melancholy, to zoned-out, to desperation, to panic, to hopeful, to elation, to anger, to resentment, to depression, to mania, to despair, and back again - and all in the course of an hour sometimes.

One day can seem like an eternity, and the next can fly by so fast you didn't realize it happened. You might feel like you are losing your mind, because your wayward spouse can say something that sounds almost logical, yet you know it is a lie - but you want to believe it. Inside your heart, you know that your WS is "in there" somewhere, and you might get glimpses of that person you once knew, and when you do you so desire to trust that glimpse, and then the rug is pulled out from under you again. You see what you believe is truth, you don't trust it, you forget things, you look back over your past and wonder "was that REAL, or was that fake?".

As the weeks go by, you find out enough information about the affair that you begin to piece your world back together, at least some of it. You wonder if what you know is true. You wonder if you should reconcile, or if you should walk away. You want to reconcile some of the time, and at other times you think you should throw in the towel and just be done with the whole darn mess. Maybe everyone would be better off if the marriage was over. Five minutes later, or the next day, you wonder what you were thinking, and you believe that the marriage should be recovered, and start thinking about ways to work on that.

After three months or so, you wonder about how the marriage ended up where it was. That initial shock is over, and you have figured out that the blame for the affair itself really isn't on the betrayed spouse - it belongs to the WS. Some of the pieces of the marital problems belong to the BS, others to the WS. You begin to pick up the pieces that belong to you.

As the months pass, you hit the six month mark, and around then you begin to be angry again. You get good and mad, because as a BS, you wonder why YOU have to deal with the fallout of the affair, you have to deal with the pain, and why the WAYWARD seems to go along, LA-LA-LA-LA-LA and seems to just skate away unscathed?????? How does this happen, after the nuclear bomb that WS dropped in the marriage?????

And the rollercoaster of emotions seems to have hills and valleys still, but they are not moment-to-moment, but more like you have up days and down days, or perhaps weekly. Maybe certain things trigger you, perhaps that restaurant you know the affair couple went to, or that shirt you know the WS wore on the movie date that one night when they said they were going to work late.

You hate movies, or you are more careful about choosing them, because you now realize just how many of them have affair themes, affairs included in the plots, or have jokes about affair sex or casual affair scenes in them.

You lose many friends, because you just do not want to deal with people who are cheating on their spouses, or in affair marriages (affairages). You can't hang out with them anymore, because it makes you hurt to the very core of your soul. From your own lips, you hear yourself cursing movie stars and others who openly and cavalierly betray their marriages.

There is a pain you carry, deep inside your body. The pain does not leave you. When you awaken in the morning, it is there before you open your eyes, and greets you as your first thought: "Your spouse betrayed you. You still feel this hurt, and it is embedded in your soul. Some of the pain has been shaved away overnight, but not so much that you might feel the difference." When you close your eyes at night, you know that thought will be your last: "Try to sleep, your love has killed your heart, it hurts........."

And in your dreams, you know that the pain will also echo there.


Know that this will be the scenario, for about two years. The pain and the mood swings and the triggers - they fade over time. They do. It takes time, and work, to get yourself to the point where you can go to sleep and wake up and it NOT be your last thought and your first thought. It does change over time.


About two years, if you decide to divorce your wife.
That means, she will not be there to help you get through this. You are on your own.



Now, if you decide to recover your marriage?????


Same scenario as above. Because the emotional deal is the SAME, either way. You will still hurt. There is no getting around that. You will still have to go through the recovery cycle.

The difference is that if you divorce, you deal with the court issues, separating "stuff", legal paperwork, attorneys, money/finances, all of that. And you do it alone.

My advice is for you NOT to decide on divorce for at least six months. Mainly because you will change your mind so many times between now and then - just because of the rollercoaster ride. And if you do decide to divorce six months from now, there would be a more thoroughly though-out decision made at that point. At least that works in your favor, and allows things to cool off.


If you remain married, you work on your issues as a couple. Your wife and you focus on what went wrong, fulfilling your emotional needs together, she works on making restitution to you, you rebuild the marriage as a new one with the rules you jointly create to protect it from affairs in a better way. MB gives you the plans.



But either way, it is a long, hard road to recover from what has happened. You have a difficult choice to make.

My husband has had five affairs (of varied types), and I had a one-night stand (over 35 years ago). We are recovered. It IS possible to repair a marriage, to fall in love again, and to make your relationship work. Start with the foundation of love, and rebuild from there. I am not saying it is EASY. Worthwhile things are seldom easy.

But they are worthwhile.


Schoolbus


Some of you might have known me as Schoolbus.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: FireAndIce] #249641
07/28/12 08:30 PM
07/28/12 08:30 PM
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FireAndIce Offline OP
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There were a few posts on forgiveness that I found that I had forgotten about. I like them, still, and so here they are:

The fist post was to someone asking if it was possible to forgive the OW after an affair:


I have to tell a little of my story so you can understand my thoughts on forgiveness.

I am the survivor of rape as a child, and of a series of rapes by a family member, and also of felony child abuse. I have had a lot to "forgive" in my life, the affair notwithstanding.

I know something about forgiving.

I had failed to move through the pain of the trauma of my childhood, and lived in the moments of those traumas day after day after day. It didn't take much to trigger my anger and pain, just a thought, a flash of a memory, even a moment of a song. Rages of anger, crying, hysteria even, were pretty common in my life. Whenever I had a disagreement with someone, I drew on the darkness of those events to fuel the energy behind the disagreement of the day - although it wasn't even related! There was plenty of anger to fuel any fire.

There came a time when it became apparent that I had to make a move - a choice between continuing on the path I was on, or finding a way to a new life without this anchor holding me to the past. I could not find anything to release the hold, because no amount of reading on rape or abuse held the "answer" I sought - there was NO answer to get rid of the triggers, the pain, the movies. No answer.

NO. ANSWER.

And I found myself thinking about moving forward, and leaving the events behind, because there had to be a way. I began to think about how the perpetrators win, every time. How they had control of me, how they had strength and power. How the events had strength and power. Even though they happened so long ago, they seemed to happen NOW, and the men were still right there with me. And I began to think of the men. What their character was, who they really were, inside of them.

I saw it clearly, right then and there. Those men were NOT strong men. They were broken men. They were weak in character, lost souls. They were dark in spirit, weren't they? Inside of them was guilt. They had no ability to stand up proudly and talk of their accomplishments without the truth of their actions scratching at their doors. They would forever be running from their memories of what they had done, wondering if they would be caught today, tomorrow....

They were lost and broken men.

They were weaker than I was. They were actually more in need than I was, and in that instant I realized that I "won". I stood stronger than they did - and somehow understood that they were the ones who should be losing sleep (and probably were).

I saw their brokenness. And then, I could forgive them.

It was in that moment that my healing from anger began. It was though the world was made new, and whole.

There was color and sound again, in a world once black and grey, muffled. The world came alive with smells and sounds and light and color, and I was alive and breathing, whole and new.

That anchor to the past? I heaved that anchor in that moment. I have been free of the memories of the abuse, the rape, and the rest, and have truly forgiven. And I have helped many people since then do the same.

Hope this helped.



The short version of this is:

Find in the other person his brokenness. In that brokenness, you will find your ability to forgive, for you will see the other person's human soul.





Some of you might have known me as Schoolbus.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: FireAndIce] #249642
07/28/12 08:31 PM
07/28/12 08:31 PM
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FireAndIce Offline OP
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The second was in response to a question about whether or not the person you forgive has to offer remorse or restitution to gain true forgiveness:




I never received an apology from the rapists.

How could they ever apologize?


Yet I have forgiven them.

Do I wish them "well"? Neither do I wish them well, nor harm.
I don't interact with them. They don't interact with me. I do not wish them harm, nor well, as to me they are no longer meaningful to me, if that makes any sense. They are not anything to me in my life, except people who once did something unthinkable to me, who were broken and lost and now are forgiven by me.

As for the OW. For any person in an affair.

I listen to the justifications. I hear the so-called reasons. I see the twisted logic, the cries of neediness. I listen to the pain of people lost in the world, looking to find what they think is lost in their hearts, and *I* know is in their own home yet they search elsewhere, and they can't seem to see it or listen to advice that it is right there at HOME. I see them break vows that they themselves don't believe they would have broken. How can I not see THAT brokenness???

I recently had an encounter with OW in my case. I saw her in a bar/restaurant, and was triggered by the event. But was I angry with her? Did I "lose" my forgiveness of her?

No.

Because she is STILL a very broken person, and was at the time of the affair. At the bar, she was hitting on a man (she is still married). She still goes out, seeking something....what is it she seeks.......she hopes to find it in the pants of another man......of almost any man.....in the act of having sex...

I saw the panic in her eyes
I saw the look of neediness
How could I not see her brokenness?
How could I not see her as a pathetic soul, lost in the world?

How could I not cry for her?

And knowing what I know of her, how could I fail to forgive her in her brokenness?



Forgiveness was a gift I gave myself.


Some of you might have known me as Schoolbus.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: FireAndIce] #249643
07/28/12 08:32 PM
07/28/12 08:32 PM
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FireAndIce Offline OP
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This was in response to the idea that if one reached a point of feeling "indifferent", was that something that was not the same as "forgiveness"?



I could never have gotten to this point with the rapists if I hadn't forgiven them.

They held too much power in my life.

When I realized they were broken people, I was able to forgive them. To understand them as broken, lost souls, then I was able to understand enough to forgive them. It was over the course of time, certainly, that they became "non-issues" in my world to the extent that they are now. But I can say that immediately after I forgave them, their power was reduced by so much that I took control of my life, whereas before the forgiveness point, THEY WERE IN CONTROL OF VIRTUALLY EVERY EMOTION I HAD, in spite of myself.

Once I forgave them, I was able to move away from them over time.

Had I not forgiven, I would have carried these men with me forever.

A very heavy load. For with them, I carried my anger and theirs, too.

My rage, and theirs, too.

My pain, and theirs, too.

My darkness, and theirs, too.

My guilt, my shame, my hurt, my sleeplessness, my bitterness, my desperation, and theirs, too.

In the moment I saw their brokenness, I saw my own.

In the moment I forgave them, I released them from my life, and along with them I released all that they brought with them.

No longer did I carry them with me.

And the events that they brought upon me - somehow, I took control that day over those events.

I won.

By forgiving them, I gave MYSELF the gift.

I freed MYSELF.



It sounds counter-intuitive. It is the absolute truth nonetheless.

No, the movies didn't disappear magically. But I will tell you that the change that day was magical. I took control, and was able to make the movies stop, the anger stop, the rages stop, all of it. My world changed because of the choice to forgive. The perspective of my LIFE changed in the choice to forgive.

It was in the immersion of forgiveness that my life changed.

It was a choice I never regretted.


Some of you might have known me as Schoolbus.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: FireAndIce] #249655
07/29/12 12:50 AM
07/29/12 12:50 AM
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Yay F&I! Thanks for finding and reposting these. smile Great to "see" you again!


42.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: Jayne241] #249657
07/29/12 02:17 AM
07/29/12 02:17 AM
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Lil Offline

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F&I,

I'm going to link the forgiveness ones to the BS guide. The divorcing one would be really good on the D forum......

smile


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: Lil] #249662
07/29/12 03:04 AM
07/29/12 03:04 AM
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LadyGrey Offline
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Thank you for taking the time to post those -- I find the whole body language thing fascinating -- particularly the teeth.

Who knew?


Bidden or not bidden God is present.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: LadyGrey] #249941
08/01/12 05:22 AM
08/01/12 05:22 AM
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You wouldn't believe how self concious I got about my teeth for a few months after reading these....


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: Lil] #250488
08/05/12 05:14 PM
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FireAndIce Offline OP
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If you want the perfect example of how to be sexy with your teeth?

Check out Farrah Fawcett.

Her smile was captivating. She had "it". Look at how the corners of her mouth pull back toward her earlobes, and how she lines them up. Also the softness of her eyes, and the way she keeps her eyes open while smiling.

The smile that is sexy has slightly different eyes than the one that is "girl next door". Also the amount of teeth displayed. She had this DOWN. I remember an interview with her once that I read from a body language expert a very long time ago, and they talked about it. She said she practiced it in the mirror, so she could get it right and natural. She sure found the winning pose.


Some of you might have known me as Schoolbus.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: FireAndIce] #251527
08/11/12 01:57 AM
08/11/12 01:57 AM
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FireAndIce Offline OP
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I began to realize tonight that I really do have a rare kind of job.

I was offered yet another part time job.


Now, I don't want another part time job. I work full time, and don't want extra side work. They tempted me. They said, "What can we do to get you interested in this work? We pay very well, and we will do whatever it takes to have you join our team. We really need you and your help on our cases."


Sure.


Sound familiar?


It is the lure. The temptation. That extra side action, that temptation, of something that sounds good. Something more than what you have.

They will do "whatever it takes". Like an affair partner who will do that for you. They will do that - sure! At first. Until you are snared. Then what? It turns into the JOB. The routine. That same old deal - and the real JOB comes out. The real person who is no longer putting on a show for you.


They pay well. Yeah. They meet your needs to lure you in. Then, when you are on the job, you are the employee. The rules are the rules, and you are nothing special. Same deal with an affair. You are the boyfriend or girlfriend, and you are NOT SPECIAL. You serve the needs of the affair partner - and don't think that for one minute that if you drop your guard you won't be last week's boyfriend or girlfriend.


I was flattered. Sure. I am needed, and I am in demand.

But the last thing I really need is some side action, to try to keep up with the demands of satisfying two employers (needy love interests), and trying to tell myself that dividing my time and energy will serve everyone equally well (because it won't).




Some of you might have known me as Schoolbus.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: FireAndIce] #251555
08/11/12 04:10 AM
08/11/12 04:10 AM
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The Farm
Jayne241 Offline
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The Farm
smile I'm really pleased to hear that folks see what a valuable resource you are! If I had crazy amounts of money, I'd be trying to offer you a retainer for consulting on practically all my interactions!

Very interesting analogy, too.


42.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: FireAndIce] #251570
08/11/12 05:49 AM
08/11/12 05:49 AM
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catperson Offline
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catperson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: FireAndIce
If you want the perfect example of how to be sexy with your teeth?

Check out Farrah Fawcett.

Her smile was captivating. She had "it". Look at how the corners of her mouth pull back toward her earlobes, and how she lines them up. Also the softness of her eyes, and the way she keeps her eyes open while smiling.

The smile that is sexy has slightly different eyes than the one that is "girl next door". Also the amount of teeth displayed. She had this DOWN. I remember an interview with her once that I read from a body language expert a very long time ago, and they talked about it. She said she practiced it in the mirror, so she could get it right and natural. She sure found the winning pose.
That's Texas women for you. wink

Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: catperson] #254293
08/29/12 11:33 PM
08/29/12 11:33 PM
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Posts: 550
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FireAndIce Offline OP
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FireAndIce  Offline OP
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I've been gone for a bit. We had a death in the family, and I had to go and support my brother through a rough patch.

I talked with my elderly Aunt today, and she really gave me a lift. She was talking about my younger daughter.

Now I have to explain that this Auntie M and I have not lived in proximity to one another since I was about 9 years old. We've stayed in contact, by phone or cards, over the years. She is now 80 years old, and we are friends on FB. She has also friended my daughters, and has gotten to know them.

Last winter, my younger daughter's tour took her through a city about 60 miles from where Auntie M lives. AM wanted to meet DD in person, but the weather was terrible that day, with rain, wind, and nearly freezing temperatures.

AM asked her own daughter for a ride to meet my DD. AM told me that her own daughter told her she was crazy, that the weather was horrible, she was 80 years old, and that she should skip driving an hour to meet someone she only really "knows" from Facebook. AM told her that this was her Great Niece, that this was family, and that she had grown to love DD, and they had a connection.

Well, her daughter was convinced, because this 80 year old Auntie was going those 60 miles, one way or the other, and she might as well give in and drive her.

Auntie M said when they got to the restaurant, she went in and saw DD there, and knew her right away. They hugged, they talked for a few hours, and they had a wonderful time. Auntie M said that it was as though they had always been friends, had known each other forever, and she would not have missed it for anything - even would have gone through a blizzard to meet this girl.


Today, DD had me send a very special work of art to Auntie M. DD and Auntie M are still in touch, and talk frequently. DD is an artist and made a very special angel for AM, and one for my mom (AM's sister) that matches.

My mom has cancer, and AM is not able to visit due to distance and her age. My mom has hung her angel on her wall, and Auntie M will hang her angel on her wall. These sisters now have sister angels to watch over them.


It's funny, but these two people - my elderly aunt and my darling daughter - both believe that spending those efforts to meet someone, to embrace them, even if you only get a few golden hours together, are worth everything.

One is 80, one is 28. I learned something from them. My DD will drive here to see my Mom, traveling an hour and 15 minutes one way, when all she can squeeze in for a visit might be an hour. But she says that hour is precious, because her grandma matters. She must get this from her Auntie M, who would drive through bad weather to see her great niece.

I am surrounded by people who love. Even though they live hours or days away.


Ice.





Some of you might have known me as Schoolbus.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: FireAndIce] #254311
08/30/12 01:11 AM
08/30/12 01:11 AM
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catperson Offline
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Man, you have me tearing up. I wish I had a family like that.

Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: catperson] #254731
09/01/12 12:24 AM
09/01/12 12:24 AM
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Posts: 3,550
Ace Offline
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Ace  Offline
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claps

Thanks so much for sharing about the love you've cultivated in your DDs, Ice. Your story is more like an inspiring Fire..... I think I might even share a similar one on my blog.

Ace



We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: believer] #259985
10/06/12 02:49 PM
10/06/12 02:49 PM
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poet Offline
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poet  Offline
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Thank you, Fire


I thank God for all the times he saved my life, for putting all the people in my path who helped save it, and all the other people I met along the way.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: Ace] #259986
10/06/12 02:49 PM
10/06/12 02:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 550
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FireAndIce Offline OP
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FireAndIce  Offline OP
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They found more metastases this week, in my Mom. She has them now in her spine, in addition to her lungs.

We talked about her pain level, and I asked her why she doesn't complain about pain. She asked me why she should, because the idea of complaining makes little sense to her.

She and I think alike.

We could complain, and after that, we have accomplished one thing - we have spoken negatively. Nothing has moved forward, and we have simply expressed the bad feelings about a problem, and not yet solved a thing. Better to say, "Time for a pill," she mused.

Another conversation this week pig-tailed to this one. A man I know, who is elderly, asked me about my happiness level. He, too, is going through some medical issues, and we were talking together. I told him about my Mom, and he said, "How do you manage to get through that and stay so happy all the time?"

That's not hard to answer. Not after the conversations my Mom and Dad and I have had.


Here's basically what I told him:


Every day we wake up and have a choice. We can embrace the day as a blessing or a drudge. We can look forward to spending time with one another, and know that we can live in the very moments we have left, and spend those moments laughing and having fun and making jokes and loving each and every minute, or

we can spend those moments talking about how unfair it all is, crying, and making each other miserable.

Which way would be the best use of our time together? Rejoicing and loving in one another's life and being, or crying and being tedious? We choose to make every day positive and fun. We buy flowers, we go out when Mom can. We watch football games over the telephone "together", by calling each other whenever there's a score or a bad play, to razz each other, and we do it every Sunday. My Dad and I do laundry together on Sundays while we watch the game, over the phone!

Mom and I call each other when someone on TV uses a word that isn't a word, and she keeps a notebook of them, and their "definition". Whenever I go over, we look at the newest entries and laugh and laugh.

We call about how much rain they got, and how much rain we got, and we are in a competition every time it rains. Dad and Mom seem to win more often, but we keep trying.

There are simple things, every day, that keep us happy. It is in those things that we find the ground beneath our feet, that keeps us going when the news of new metastases hits, or when the tumor has grown, or whatever. These simple things help us to realize that every day together is a blessing, and that nobody has a guarantee of tomorrow, cancer or not, and that we must look at the moment right now


and breathe it in


to be sure that our lives are well-lived.



This lesson, this conversation, held by three old folks.


But actually brought to us via the lyrics of a song written by the youngest among our family, my daughter.


Who seemed, at the moment of the diagnosis of my Mom's cancer, to be the oldest.

I wish I could share those lyrics with you.


Some of you might have known me as Schoolbus.
Re: Fire and Ice - and everything in between [Re: Ace] #259987
10/06/12 02:50 PM
10/06/12 02:50 PM
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FireAndIce Offline OP
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double post

argh


Some of you might have known me as Schoolbus.
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