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BR: 50 Shades Of Gray #245355
07/06/12 10:21 AM
07/06/12 10:21 AM
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Lil Offline OP

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Since the other thread has gone, I needed to start a new one for my pokes at the series.

I do have to say that now I mostly skip the sex scenes, the books are getting better, Just started 50 shades of freed and am about halfway thru.

Warning, profanity if you click on this.

Click to reveal..


Last edited by lildoggie; 07/09/12 08:28 AM. Reason: change title

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Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: Lil] #245367
07/06/12 01:19 PM
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I know this has become a cultural phenomenon, and I will usually read those kinds of books just to know what everybody is talking about (for instance "Hunger Games")....but not this one. All the women I know are reading it, and say "you have to!". I'll be interested to see what y'all have to say about it.


"Yes, I'll have the love combo, open faced with a side of respect and large a glass of forgiveness, easy on the ice please--my brother
Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: star*fish] #245372
07/06/12 01:42 PM
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I was just at Amazon.com, and saw the top five best-selling books for the Kindle. Number 1 was Fifty Shades of Gray. Number 2 was the second Fifty Shades of Gray book. Number 3 was the third Fifty Shades of Gray book. And coming in at number 5 was the bundled Fifty Shades of Gray Trilogy.


**Formerly known as Cuthbert Calculus**

"There is enough sadness in life without having fellows like Gussie Fink-Nottle going about in sea boots."

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Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: Gladstone] #245376
07/06/12 01:56 PM
07/06/12 01:56 PM
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TACticGAL Offline
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With the other thread gone, I'll re-state my review of the books.

They are definitely smut. Not that I think that's a bad thing, but these books go way beyond the typical Harlequin romance so far across the line into p0rn that you can't see the line from where these books sit.

Worse in my estimation, they are badly written smut. Hackneyed cliche's, cardboard one-dimensional characters, and the fact that she apparently ran out of ways to describe certain acts and body parts... That they started life as Twilight fanfic says all that needs said about them. Now, granted, E.L. James herself says they're not great, that she was working through her midlife crises with writing, and this is what fell out. She's almost embarrassed about them in every interview I've seen. I think she's a nice lady who's a mediocre writer who accidentally stumbled on fame and except for the money, really doesn't care for it. I wish her the best.

It seems that the books have re-energized a number of people's sex lives and that's never a bad thing. Anything that gets people in lackluster marriages with little sex thinking and talking about what they want and need can't be a bad thing.

As someone with a number of friends in the scene, I can also tell you that the BDSM aspect of it is so badly done, it's cringe-worthy. I hope and pray that anyone who is interested in that scene get better reference material before embarking.

So all-in-all, it's a mixed bag for me.

I can't get YouTube from work, so I will just list the vids that had been shared that one simply MUST go watch on this subject:

Ellen DeGeneres reads 50 Shades
Gilbert Gottfried reads 50 Shades
Dr. Ruth reviews 50 Shades

Enjoy!


Let me not be so vain to think I'm the sole author of my victories and and a victim of my defeats. -- ze frank
Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: TACticGAL] #245391
07/06/12 02:30 PM
07/06/12 02:30 PM
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poet Offline
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Originally Posted By: TACticGAL
They are definitely smut. Not that I think that's a bad thing.


Gees, why would anybody think that it's a "bad thing?" Maybe, if they happen to be one of the growing number of people who fell victim to divorce because porn and prostitution ruined their marriages.

Originally Posted By: TACticGAL

It seems that the books have re-energized a number of people's sex lives and that's never a bad thing. Anything that gets people in lackluster marriages with little sex thinking and talking about what they want and need can't be a bad thing.


Or, maybe it gets people in bad marriages to go outside the marriage for sex. I don't know. I haven't read the book, and I don't intend to. But, porn is porn no matter how you twist it. It seems to me that "people in lackluster marriages with little sex" should consider something other than porn to think and talk about "what they need."

Originally Posted By: TACticGAL
As someone with a number of friends in the scene, I can also tell you that the BDSM aspect of it is so badly done, it's cringe-worthy.


I do not know what BDSM means but if something is "cringe-worthy" to me, I stay away from it. I don't like to cringe. I know a lot of people who like to watch horror too. There's an old saying about horror. Those who watch horror movies like to be horrified. I would think the same goes for cringe or porn. Those who like to watch/read about porn, like to have porn. Just MHO.

Originally Posted By: TACticGAL


I hope and pray that anyone who is interested in that scene get better reference material before embarking.


There is a good clinical book out there for sex problems in a marriage called "Passionate Marriage."


I thank God for all the times he saved my life, for putting all the people in my path who helped save it, and all the other people I met along the way.
Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: poet] #245398
07/06/12 02:55 PM
07/06/12 02:55 PM
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TACticGAL Offline
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Originally Posted By: poet
Gees, why would anybody think that it's a "bad thing?" Maybe, if they happen to be one of the growing number of people who fell victim to divorce because porn and prostitution ruined their marriages.


I didn't say everyone had to think it was OK, I was just clarifying that it's not an issue for me. I fully comprehend that there are lots of people out there who have been badly hurt by p0rn, and I do not want to ever minimize that. It's just not been an issue in my life.

ETA: I also wanted to make it crystal clear for anyone who has NOT read the books that they *are* flat-out p0rn. There's been debate in several forums I've been on whether bodice ripper style romance novels are or are not p0rn, and IMNSHO the 50 Shades books are 100% p0rn and there shouldn't be any confusion on the subject. If you're against p0rn, don't read these.

Originally Posted By: poet
Or, maybe it gets people in bad marriages to go outside the marriage for sex. I don't know. I haven't read the book, and I don't intend to. But, porn is porn no matter how you twist it. It seems to me that "people in lackluster marriages with little sex" should consider something other than porn to think and talk about "what they need."


Ideally, of course people shouldn't need p0rn to stimulate conversation about their wants and needs in the bedroom. We don't live in an ideal world.

Originally Posted By: poet
I do not know what BDSM means but if something is "cringe-worthy" to me, I stay away from it. I don't like to cringe. I know a lot of people who like to watch horror too. There's an old saying about horror. Those who watch horror movies like to be horrified. I would think the same goes for cringe or porn. Those who like to watch/read about porn, like to have porn. Just MHO.

(...)

There is a good clinical book out there for sex problems in a marriage called "Passionate Marriage."


BDSM is bondage, domination, submission, sadism, and masochism. (The "S" gets used twice but BDSSM looks wierd.) The way the books handle the subject isn't reflective of the reality of the "scene" and can be pretty dangerous emotionally and possibly even physically if translated directly into real life. My veiled reference to getting better reference material wasn't related to "normal" sex, it was specific to the BDSM. There are actually some good books out there for people who are interested in it, that focus on the safe, sane, consensual mantra of those in the scene.

Last edited by TACticGAL; 07/06/12 03:00 PM.

Let me not be so vain to think I'm the sole author of my victories and and a victim of my defeats. -- ze frank
Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: star*fish] #245415
07/06/12 04:01 PM
07/06/12 04:01 PM
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The Dark Side of the Moon
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Since I'm now finished with "The Grand Design", I won't be reading this. razz wink

Did I have you fooled with the first clause? At least a little?


Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: AntigoneRisen] #245438
07/06/12 05:18 PM
07/06/12 05:18 PM
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
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I read all three. The writing will not be winning any Pulitzer's. And yes, it is erotica, and it would likely be triggering for some. If it could help someone who needs to spice up her sex life and her spouse is on board, then hey, yee-haw.

I do see some issues with it though. First, there ARE going to be people who may seek to look outside their M if their hubby doesn't suddenly become Christian Grey. I don't fault the book for this - I mean, anyone who decides to stray from their M to seek out a real life Christian is...in need of some help IMO. But I also have read that there are wives out there who suddenly think they want their poor unsuspecting H's to become overnight "Dominants." That is pretty unfair. Also, though I would not pass nay kind of judgment on what consenting Couples do behind their own closed doors, I would think going out to seek certain experiences without doing some research could be dangerous. I especially worry for single ladies who read this and then go looking for a "Dominant" who will buy them an audi and show them some wild times. They are just as likely to end up with someone who is psycho or an online predator.

I will never understand people who cannot distinguish fiction from real life. It is just like the Harry Potter paranoia or the big flap over The DaVinci Code. They are works of fiction. Expecting them to translate into real life does not make sense to me.

I will say that I think the best book was the third one.

Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: herfuturesbright] #245441
07/06/12 05:32 PM
07/06/12 05:32 PM
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I wish I could still access the "review" I wrote in the TD. Shame it was all deleted/stored before I could get it copied here.

Anyways...my MIL who bought me 50 Shades for my bday is actually READING my copy, as we speak.

Needless to say, her son (my H) is horrified. LOL


Married my best friend 7/23/05



Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: *~aeri~*] #245444
07/06/12 05:46 PM
07/06/12 05:46 PM
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
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Love. It.

Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: herfuturesbright] #245474
07/06/12 08:52 PM
07/06/12 08:52 PM
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TACticGAL Offline
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Originally Posted By: herfuturesbright
I will never understand people who cannot distinguish fiction from real life. It is just like the Harry Potter paranoia or the big flap over The DaVinci Code. They are works of fiction. Expecting them to translate into real life does not make sense to me.


AMEN!


Let me not be so vain to think I'm the sole author of my victories and and a victim of my defeats. -- ze frank
Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: *~aeri~*] #245499
07/06/12 10:45 PM
07/06/12 10:45 PM
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Gateway to the West
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Originally Posted By: *~aeri~*
Anyways...my MIL who bought me 50 Shades for my bday is actually READING my copy, as we speak.

Needless to say, her son (my H) is horrified. LOL


laugh1

Last winter I was invited to a Pure Romance party (it's like a Pampered Chef party but instead of cookery, they sell sex stuff). By Mr. Nots aunt. My MIL kept calling me and SIL to go.

We just couldn't.....way. Too. Inappropriate. For either of us.

Just couldn't see me attending that party with my MIL, all of her sister, and Grandma. Turned out one of the sisters daughter was the consultant!!!!

Can you imagine trying to sell your Grandma certain sex toys?!??!??

Not that I'm a prude by any means but....I found my limit..... eek

ETA---> I have been to other Pure Romance parties and I actually find them done rather tastefully. It's an excellent way to find new "ideas" for redoing the bedroom... wink
I just don't need my MIL or Grandma to give me decorating advice


" If you couldn't change your partner when you were together, you sure aren't going to now that you aren't together..." Words of the teacher of the court mandated parenting class...and the ONE thing that stuck out to me!!!
Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: Not2fun] #245501
07/06/12 11:00 PM
07/06/12 11:00 PM
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Lil Offline OP

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Finished the third book last night, and I am in agreement, it was the best. Having said that I found the 2nd better than the first. The emails are still the best bits of the books

The sex - its a little more rough and tumble than perhaps the normal for marital SF BUT not much more. I assume the author knows that since 'Christian' frequently describes their love life as being vanilla. I havent explored in great depth, or eve shallow depth what the BDSM lifestyle actually entails, but even I can tell that a suede flogger and one riding crop makes for pretty underwhelming accessories.

I particular liked the little excerpts at the end of the third book that went into Christians POV instead of it always being from Ana's. Ana's character I wasnt so fond of. She cries alot, spends a great deal of time angsting over irrelevant stuff and nags.

Overall they are a light read. I dont know how they compare to what I heard called "Mills and Bondage". I downloaded slightly more risqu books from Amazon and worked out where my comfort zone for erotica is. DH got a few additional happy nights. The author is making a crap load of money and can enjoy a similar lifestyle to the one she portrays in the books. Some people might be offended by the books, but I would think they are the people who wouldn't like books with a strong sexual content anyway.


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Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: TACticGAL] #245525
07/07/12 12:56 AM
07/07/12 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: TACticGAL
Originally Posted By: herfuturesbright
I will never understand people who cannot distinguish fiction from real life. It is just like the Harry Potter paranoia or the big flap over The DaVinci Code. They are works of fiction. Expecting them to translate into real life does not make sense to me.


AMEN!


Me neither! But there are a lot of men who are porn/stripper addicts who can't. Many good marriages have been ruined by that.


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: believer] #245527
07/07/12 01:37 AM
07/07/12 01:37 AM
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I agree. That is why unless a woman has a firm grasp on reality and good boundaries.....I think that erotica and romance novels can be just as destructive to a marriage as video/pictorial pornography.

Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: herfuturesbright] #245552
07/07/12 04:24 AM
07/07/12 04:24 AM
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hug highfive hug highfive


Formerly Baba, Stellakat, Bubbles

"Please remember that what I say here in this post is ONLY my opinion and it is not meant to offend in any way!"
Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: Kittycat] #245570
07/07/12 05:08 AM
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Lil Offline OP

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I entirely agree that porn and erotica are two sides of the same coin. I just think that as far as reading material goes, 50 shades is pretty naff, and for the average reader not much more that a bit of escapism.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: herfuturesbright] #245588
07/07/12 10:28 AM
07/07/12 10:28 AM
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Larry Offline
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Originally Posted By: herfuturesbright
I agree. That is why unless a woman has a firm grasp on reality and good boundaries.....I think that erotica and romance novels can be just as destructive to a marriage as video/pictorial pornography.


No question about it. And visual porn holds the same risk for males. It is that the way brains are (on average and mostly) wired, males find things visual to be interesting, while women are more attracted to the verbal, which also translates to the written in somewhat higher percentages than males. That said, a decent percentage of males are also attracted to the written, and seem to process it via the mechanism of "Visualizing" the course of what they read. I can go into more depth with those theories if anyone is interested.

There are huge variances and nuances in the genre of "Prurient" interests, which then can be categorized into culture blocks, with most people falling into various "Fetish" blocks that tend toward roughly 10 or 12 major blocks of interest here in the States. The UK is a somewhat different story for some reason, where I learned there were upwards of 52 clearly defined segments. How I learned that is a totally funny story by itself.

Just for the record, "Prurient" is a Supreme Court used word that indicates interest in something that could be considered "Sexual." Most folks haul around some baggage on that subject, for sure, as part of the reproduction of the race imperative in all its flaming glory.

In marriages that have a high level of "Intimacy" between the couple, there is a corresponding reduction in the appeal of the prurient, which in turn translates into a respectably high level of a long term and emotionally satisfying relationship, in my somewhat learned opinion.

I can reference Mark Gungor for the latest lay teaching on how brains are wired.

The reason I picked HERF to use for a response is her comment about "reality and good boundaries" and the "Destructive" factor for relationships. Her comment is dead on accurate and needs explaining a bit more.

The two sides of attachment to prurient influences outside a relationship are male (visual porn) and female (written porn). I call it porn just to have somewhat of a hold on the whole subject. This includes stripper bars for (mostly) men and romance novels for (mostly) women, not just the more usual categories.

Let me use just one tiny sampling of one category to make the point.

Romance novels are an incredible influence on many, if not a fairly high percentage women. There I said it. And I meant what I said. Here is the reason.

Harlequin and Silhouette (now defunct after Harlequin bought it) clearly have an influence on at least some level of PEA poisoning of the brain. And we all know how that works, or should. I will say that the influence to destroy a marriage is not as dramatic as that of porn addiction in males, but that is a drama statement and a weighting, not otherwise definitive.

I have checked out the only two forums on the net that have any part of sexuality in a marriage and they aren't very informative. This is a shame since that element of a marriage hauls around a huge percentage of influence on longevity and whether or not someone enjoys a lifetime of emotional satisfaction with their marriage relationship: dare I say "Life itself?"

Who knows, I may start writing on the subject of "Intimacy," and I don't mean doing a clone of "50 Shades of Gray."

wink

Larry


Last edited by Larry; 07/07/12 10:31 AM.

It's often the truth we hide from ourselves that causes the most damage in life.

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Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: Larry] #245600
07/07/12 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Larry
Who knows, I may start writing on the subject of "Intimacy," and I don't mean doing a clone of "50 Shades of Gray."


And, who knew that would give me an idea. I may start writing on the subject of lack of intimacy in a marriage because of it.


I thank God for all the times he saved my life, for putting all the people in my path who helped save it, and all the other people I met along the way.
Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: poet] #245608
07/07/12 02:43 PM
07/07/12 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: Larry
Who knows, I may start writing on the subject of "Intimacy," and I don't mean doing a clone of "50 Shades of Gray."


Originally Posted By: Poet
And, who knew that would give me an idea. I may start writing on the subject of lack of intimacy in a marriage because of it.


And, it gives me the idea of starting a thread about books like The Bridges of Madison County, The Notebook and other emotionally charged romanticized fiction.


A happy marriage is a long conversation which always seems too short. --Andre Maurois

Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: wiser_now] #245614
07/07/12 02:58 PM
07/07/12 02:58 PM
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
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I think it is important to be careful about labeling inanimate objects. For example, Facebook is not evil. It is how one chooses to USE facebook and how weak their boundaries are that determines whether it is beneficial or dangerous. A book is just a bound collection of words. But, books can affect people differently.

I grew up in a strict church. I remember that sometimes people got drunk secretly at the prom. We all know some people end up going somewhere and "losing their virginity" after the prom - it is statistically one of the biggest virginity losing events (it really is). However....was the prom in and of itself evil? My church thought so and declared it a "sin" to go to the prom.

For someone who has firm boundaries and a firm grasp of the difference between reality and fantasy...I think an occasional Nicholas Sparks or Nora Roberts or even E L James novel is probably really not a big deal. However, if a woman is highly discontent in her M, has a tendency to mistake daydreams for reality, and has weak boundaries......they should probably be avoided.

Men do tend (in statistical generalities) to be more visually oriented. I think most men/boys at some point are curious and probably look at a picture or two. If a man has strong boundaries and healthy intimacy with his wife and a grasp of reality, then it might not be a big deal on occasion. Of course this would depend on whether the couple is in agreement, just like with the woman reading those novels. However, if a man has weak boundaries, has a history of cheating or addictive behavior, or is not giving his wife the intimacy she needs, he should steer clear.

Perhaps it is baggage from the very strict church, but I hesitate to make sweeping generalizations of others' behavior, especially when it is in moderation. But I think if someone is having a steady diet of this kind of thing they should probably check themselves to make sure it isn't affecting their relationships or their view of what relationships should be.

Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: herfuturesbright] #245624
07/07/12 04:05 PM
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Those are good points, HRF.

I've never had a problem with my guy watching porn, and have even watched along if I could keep from laughing out loud.

However, some men replace intimacy with their wives with porn. My view is that the porn causes the problem. I doubt that men turn to porn because they don't have intimacy with their partner. It is the other way around.


"I feel sad that I focused so much on his potential and so little on mine."
Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: believer] #245638
07/07/12 05:09 PM
07/07/12 05:09 PM
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I have to agree, believer. I have a couple of friends whose H's got deep into porn, and they were having physical intimacy in their M's on a very regular basis. In fact, with one of them (which was also the case in my own M) the wives actually would have liked MORE sex rather than denying the H's sex.

I think that the occasional use of porn might have something to do with sex.....I wonder, though, if porn addiction really has anything to do with how much sex one has at all. It seems to me to be a much deeper thing.

Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: herfuturesbright] #245649
07/07/12 06:15 PM
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Carolina Blue Heaven
I think one real danger of porn is when it is the only kind of sex "education" that young men receive. That is what happened to my husband, along with the conservative teachings of his church that basically good girls don't and bad girls do and stay away from the bad girls! Marry a good girl and have sex to have children, but remember that good girls don't like it. I can see how that becomes marry a good girl, have an affair with a bad girl.

I have not read the 50 Shades series, but was recently in a group of women discussing them. A 25 year old had read them and said they were okay. A 50 year old had read them and was obsessed with them and insisted that we all MUST read them as well. A 40 year old and me,55, knew about the books but had no interest in reading them. And a 68 year old who knew nothing about them at all.

As the 50 year old gushed on and on about the romantic love story and how the s&m was just a small part of it, the 68 year old finally interrupted and said, "so it is a work of fiction obviously because no 20something man knows anything about real love and romance. It sounds like Twilight with some porn thrown in instead of vampires. Why would a grown woman waste time reading that? I'm 68 years old and do not know how much time I have left. I'm not going to waste it on THAT."

Re: 50 Shades Of Gray [Re: peppermint] #245660
07/07/12 07:08 PM
07/07/12 07:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,611
wiser_now Offline
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wiser_now  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,611
Originally Posted By: peppermint
I think one real danger of porn is when it is the only kind of sex "education" that young men receive. That is what happened to my husband, along with the conservative teachings of his church that basically good girls don't and bad girls do and stay away from the bad girls! Marry a good girl and have sex to have children, but remember that good girls don't like it. I can see how that becomes marry a good girl, have an affair with a bad girl.

I have not read the 50 Shades series, but was recently in a group of women discussing them. A 25 year old had read them and said they were okay. A 50 year old had read them and was obsessed with them and insisted that we all MUST read them as well. A 40 year old and me,55, knew about the books but had no interest in reading them. And a 68 year old who knew nothing about them at all.

As the 50 year old gushed on and on about the romantic love story and how the s&m was just a small part of it, the 68 year old finally interrupted and said, "so it is a work of fiction obviously because no 20something man knows anything about real love and romance. It sounds like Twilight with some porn thrown in instead of vampires. Why would a grown woman waste time reading that? I'm 68 years old and do not know how much time I have left. I'm not going to waste it on THAT."


I totally agree!

I haven't read the books and I won't... I don't like romance novels. The closest I get is the classics. I'm more of a non-fiction girl.


A happy marriage is a long conversation which always seems too short. --Andre Maurois

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