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Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story #40044
12/24/10 10:46 PM
12/24/10 10:46 PM
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Here is a brief time line to get things started:

1998: FOM and I started working for the same organization and became strictly friends and nothing more. DH was well aware of the friendship. Let's complicate things a little more and add that FOM's SIL was my best friend since 1997.

Jan 2003: Things took a turn and secrets started

May 2003: We moving into FOM's neighborhood which fueled the A.

Sept 2003: I ended the A

March 2004: DH and I took a trip alone to HI. We bonded and both started doing things to improve our marriage. The better things got between us the more guilt I felt over the secrets and the closer I came to losing my mind.

From Sept 2003 until Sept 2004: I began secretly reading relationship books, books about affairs, posting on a message board, doing online research and reading anything I could get my hands on to help me make sense of what I had done. While doing my research I was finding a lot of helpful info I started to apply to our marriage, the more I did I found DH following along. Asked DH to read a few books along the way. I slowly progressed toward a nervous breakdown.

Sept 2004: I secretly started therapy because I felt like I was having a nervous breakdown.

Dec 13, 2004: Confessed a downplayed version of the A to my DH who had no idea it had happened or that I was having a nervous breakdown. He said and did nothing for 2 weeks.

Dec 30, 2004: DH was ready to talk.

Jan 3, 2005: DH confronted FOM via email. FOM immediately sent me an email, which I promptly deleted unread, then replied to DH with a few lame emails about how his W already knew and it was in the past in his house.

Jan 4, 2005: FOM gave his notice at work, but agreed to stay until they found his replacement. It took 8 months to find a replacement.

Feb 2005: DH exposed to FOM's W. She knew of the A, knew it wasn't sexual, but did not know it was physical.

July 2005: DH took a job where I work (His old contract required a 90 day notice), FOM who also worked there started working from home

Oct 2005: DH started his new job, FOM quit, put his house on the market and moved before it sold.

May 2006: NC officially started because FOM's house sold and he was gone from the area for good.

To be continued......

Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Lifechoice] #40045
12/24/10 10:47 PM
12/24/10 10:47 PM
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Lifechoice Offline OP
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This is broken into 2 parts because it's how I posted it elsewhere. I decided it would be pain to try to combine the 2. I updated it.

Part 1

My FOM and I were strictly friends and coworkers for 5 years before we crossed the line. We did nothing in those 5 years that I would not have done in front of my H or his W. My DH was completely aware of everything and was OK with the friendship. Things changed in Jan 03 when the secrets started. It started with secret emails, then flirting, that went on until May 03 when my family moved into FOM's neighborhood. This was my DH's idea to move, not mine. Unfortunately, it fed the A since we lived around the corner from each other. The A lasted from May until Sept, 03. I was a nervous wreck. I knew I was going against every core value I ever had, but didn't stop it.

Thankfully we never crossed the biggest line. FOM and I did not have sex, intercourse or any other kind. Our A was mostly emotional, but we did have physical contact. I ended the A short of having sex because I couldn't do what we were doing.

In March 04 my H had a business trip in Hawaii and I went along. It was the first time in 13 years we had taken a trip w/o our children. To this day I call it our marriage saving trip. We bonded like we had never done before. I started working hard at improving our marriage and he was following along. It got to the point I knew, in all fairness to him, that I had to tell him about my A.

My original plan was to take the A to the grave, but I am NOT a person who can internalize anything. As our marriage improved my guilt grew and grew to a point that I couldn't take it anymore. I ended up falling head first over the deep end because of the guilt.

I was very conflicted because I started to see both sides. On one hand I knew I needed to tell my H, but on the other hand I was afraid he would leave me. Besides that I had FOM playing mind games with me telling me if I told my DH I would be ruining 4 lives or if I told he would say I was lying and making it all up, he told me to just forget it and pretend it never happened, he even told me to go to confession at church and that would take care of it. I could go on, but won't. FOM actually started to make me feel like I was crazy. I couldn't understand how he could just let it all go and I couldn't. I didn't know what the heck was wrong with me.

I became irrational in my thinking and very paranoid that my DH would find out. I was still working with FOM, lashing out at him and acting like a total nutcase. He kept telling me to just forget about it and I couldn't. No matter how hard I tried the fact I had cheated was always on my mind, there were constant reminders everywhere I went, I was having severe anxiety, shaking all the time, I wasn't sleeping well, my mind was all over the place and I was a total mess.

Finally in Sept 04 I saw a therapist because I felt like I was losing my mind. My H was not aware that I was having any problems or that I went to therapy. I hid it all from him.

On Dec 13, 2004 I sat DH down and told him about the A. He said and did nothing for 2 weeks. I was so confused because I was sure he would have some sort of a reaction and I had hoped he wouldn't walk out the door, never looking back. He acted like he didn't care or so I thought. In all reality he did care, but didn't want to have the typical reaction. Finally after the 2 weeks he couldn't take it anymore and he wanted to talk about it. That night we talked for several hours and I answered every question he asked. I knew the importance of telling him the truth because I had been on a women's message board that dealt with infidelity. I give credit to a group of really great ladies, BS's and WS's, who helped guide me in the direction to confess to my H and help me restore my sanity when I was teetering on the edge of having a nervous breakdown.

On Feb 3, 2005, as I was on my way out the door to work, he asked me to give him all the details. He said he HAD to know everything because of the visuals he was having in his mind. It was the most humiliating day of my life to tell my husband what I had done with another man. When I was finished telling him everything he thank me for not having sex with the FOM. He also said very calmly "You know you have used your one and only chance, right?" There was not a question in my mind how very serious he was about that. I knew he was hurt to the core. It brings tears to my eyes because I still can picture the look on his face as we sat on the couch that day.

For a long time I tried to make myself feel better and think my A wasn't as bad as it could have been because we never slept together. My DH had to tell me a few times that it isn't what we didn't do, it's what we did do that matters and hurts like heck.

I beat myself up for a very long time and it took me a long time to forgive myself. I was letting the A define who I was. It wasn't until I was able to accept that person in me then I could finally move past all of that part of it.

Hindsight I'm still not sure how much of the 5 year friendship with FOM was actually an EA. I like to believe it was simply a friendship because my DH knew everything, but there was flirting and such going on. I also found out much later that his W was unaware of our close friendship.

When I went through withdrawal, according to my therapist, I mourned the friendship, not the A. I didn't have any problem at all giving up the A, I had a really tough time giving up the friendship. For our entire friendship FOM was my "go to" guy whenever I was stressed about something. For all those years he sat and talked with me, listened and offered up advice. THAT is what I missed when the friendship had to end. As time went on and I learned more and more it was actually the calming effect he had on me that I "needed" so much, IOW it's what I was addicted to. I was losing my mind because the person I went to to calm me down became the source of my stress. Pile on top of that the tremendous amount of guilt I had because my DH was finally becoming my "go to". UGH, it was a total nightmare.

What I didn't really realize at the time was that remaining in contact with FOM fed the addiction and made withdrawal impossible to overcome. Once he was gone it was amazing how different it felt to not have the constant reminders in my face. It still took me a while to get through withdrawal.

My FOM saw the very worst of me because I acted like a nutcase, totally embarrassed myself because I couldn't control my irrational behavior. Logically I knew I was acting like a psycho freak yet was unable to control it and that it is a very scary place to be. Thankfully in therapy I learned Cognitive Behavioral Therapy which allowed me to sort everything out in my head. Therapy was the best gift I ever gave myself. There were so many underlying issues that lead to my choice to cheat it was nice to be able to work them out and see how it all fit together.

I know I have come out a much better person than I was before. It was a long, hard road, but worth it. I love my DH to my soul, I know he loves me unconditionally. For many years I thought he didn't love me at all and just stayed married to me because he thought he had to. I learned a lot about myself through this ordeal. I'm in a really great place and so is our relationship.

To be continued....

Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Lifechoice] #40046
12/24/10 10:48 PM
12/24/10 10:48 PM
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Part 2: Post confession thoughts

DH and I did not do it the MB way because we didn't know about it. Even though my confession was a year after I ended the A I was still working with FOM and he and his W still lived around the corner from us. At the time I only worked a few days a month, but that was enough for me to keep one foot in the fog. I still babbled a lot and did a whole bunch of things I shouldn't have.

The big difference was I wasn't hiding it from my DH and thought it was OK. I was telling him every time I emailed FOM, I was showing him closure notes I felt I needed to send (pretty sure I sent at least 5), told him about all contact I had with FOM, etc, etc. DH kept "approving" everything I wanted to do. I'm sure it was killing him.

After my confession I didn't feel my DH was having the "right" reaction so I was trying to force him to have, what I thought was, the typical BS reaction thus doing and saying things to rile him up. Hindsight, it was very mean, but not meant intentionally, I honestly believed I was helping him.

I am the type of person who needs to talk about something in order to work it out, he is the type who needs to process things on his own. This was a major stumbling block for us. We had no communications skills whatsoever, so our first step was to figure out a way to communicate.

We started out by emailing each other if we had something difficult to talk about. We did this because it eliminated actually seeing the reaction of the other person. In the subject line we would put "Brutal Honesty". That was the indication to the other person to be ready for something difficult. For a while we would email our responses back and forth and eventually it developed into us being able to talk about things we never could before.

My need to talk and his need to process took a toll on us. The more I tried to force him to talk, the more he needed to process, the more paranoid I became which led to me bugging him all the time.

Anytime he went to his office to process my mind went nuts. I was sure he was sitting down there making his plans to leave and I was driving myself crazy over it. It took us a while, but we came up with an agreement that if he needed to process he had to tell me so and I had promised to leave him alone. Once he finished processing whatever it was he needed to, he then would tell me something small about it. It eased my paranoia when he explained that he was only sitting in his office "fire watching", relaxing and thinking.

I kept expecting my DH to be mean to me, but he wasn't he kept killing me with kindness. It made my head spin. It didn't make sense that he was not being mean, I certainly deserved it. I can say killing me with kindness when I expected him to hate me softened me to him. All of a sudden I started to like him more. When he first started doing it, my thinking was along the lines of this. "No, no ,no, don't be nice to me, I want to blame and hate you, I can't do that when you are being nice."

As time went on and I started to really appreciate my DH the guilt hit HARD along with a lot of very unhealthy anger toward FOM. It took me a long time to get over the guilt and anger. I beat myself up over and over again. Finally I had to make the decision to stop doing it, but not before I was a major pain to my poor H. I have a friend who knows the whole story and she often said my DH deserves a medal for what I put him through.

The way I was able to stop the guilt and anger was to finally accept everything about the A and who I became during it. It took me a long time to really believe just because I was that person for a short time, it didn't define who I was forever.

Even though DH and I were well on our way in rebuilding there were still a few things standing in the way. While doing online research I ran across MB and their forum in Jan 2007 and started reading things I thought pertained to our situation. I quickly found that the MB forum is frequented by male BS's and since DH isn't the type to share his feeling I wanted to get into the mind of other Male BS's. MB forum seemed to be the place for that. I read tons of post from the male BS POV and it really helped me cut DH some slack when he didn't want to share his feelings.

Although I had accepted that I turned into a total nutcase toward FOM I still wasn't sure WHY I acted like such a psycho-freak when I was the one who didn't want the A and ended it. The forum really helped me explain a few things that happened and why I acted like I did during my A and when I was still in contact with FOM. The explanation of the alien, the fog, the addiction, the babble, etc described me and made me understand so much. It really helped me make sense as to why I became so irrational. I remember asking my therapist what the heck was wrong with me that I could not just walk away without acting like a psycho-freak. Knowing why certainly made it easier to accept and let it go.

As if things weren't complicated enough with FOM being a coworker and neighbor, at the time of the A my best friend was his SIL (married to FOM's brother) That is a whole story in itself. She did not know of the A when it was going on, but did find out about it from my DH a few months after I confessed. She said she suspected, but without proof didn't feel right to say anything to either myself or my DH. Once my DH told her about it she and I discussed every detail ad nauseum. As time went on it became hard to be friends with her because I needed to let things go but couldn't because her and I talked about everything. I needed to have NC with not only FOM, but also his family. We have since severed ties with her and her H and I can now see how very unhealthy it was for us to remain friends. Former best friend and her family still live behind us, but we do not talk.

My DH still doesn't like to talk about anything and I am OK with it because I don't feel paranoid that he is going to leave me. I have accepted his way of dealing with things.

So here we are a little over 7 years since I ended the 9 month long A, approaching 6 years since my confession and 5 years of NC. The biggest thing we learned was how to effectively communicate. Pre-A during our entire marriage we locked into power struggles and got nowhere. Now we know how to avoid them or stop them if they start.

We are closer than I ever thought we would be and our marriage is pretty darn good We didn't follow any specific plans, we just utilized information from many different resources. We learned to respect and care for each other and best of all, we finally learned how to love each other the way we each need to be loved.

Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Lifechoice] #40049
12/24/10 10:59 PM
12/24/10 10:59 PM
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I'm LC's H and here is my side of the story. From the time LC and I married, we have been struggling for a better relationship. I, like my father, am very goal oriented and thru the years worked very hard to provide for our family. LC has also worked very hard during this time, despite also having to raise 3 DD. From 1988 to 1992 I was traveling 5 - 6 days a week with my job and this all changed when I decided to go to medical school. Over the next 4 years LC was essentially a single mom as I was away during the days at school and home at night to watch the DDs while she worked second shift. Our youngest was born while I was in medical school in 1995. We spent very little time together (by ourselves) and always did family events. This drove us further apart because we were moving in different directions and not communicating our goals to each other. At that time my goal was to push my career forward by doing residency at a top notch facility. This meant we had to move from Illinois (where both our families live) to another state. Her goal was to stay in Illinois and for me to do my residency in Chicago. Match day came and we were moving. She freaked out and didn't talk to me for days. Over the next 5 years I worked 60-90 hours per week in residency and moonlighting in local emergency rooms. Again, I was trying to provide for the family and in turn neglecting spending time with LC.

In the fall of my first year of residency, LC was hired at another local hospital where she met FOM. FOM, his brother and I became "good friends" and spent some of our time together. Little did I know that FOM had other plans. I never thought anything mischievous was going on between him and LC, because LC would never be capable of having an A. In May 03, LC mentioned there were several house for sale in the subdivision which we now live. I wanted to buy acreage in the country, but we did look and fall in love with our current house. LC will say that I made the decision to buy it, but she was involved as well. Ironically, FOMs brother became our neighbor behind our house. FOM would frequently stop by our house (more than his own brother's house). He was always at our parties, campfires, or sitting out on the patio. In all actuality, he was jealous of what I had and he wanted to become me (or replace me). LC loves to talk and one evening we were sitting in front of our house when she asked me a question (cannot remember what it was) to which I replied that I didn't have anything to say about it and went inside the house. I'm not sure if I was just exhausted, or bitter, or what was up with me. But this fueled the A, because it pushed her right into FOMs hands. We were both miserable in our marriage and she took comfort in his spending time with her. Over the summer they had ample opportunity because I worked all the time and the DDs were frequently away.

In March 04, we went to Hawaii without the kids and finally bonded like we had never bonded before. I was more relaxed and she was more understanding. Our relationship was finally on the right course until DDay (December 13, 2004) when the p**p hit the fan. Just months prior to this, LC was making FOMs life a living nightmare with e-mails and outbursts at work. I still had no idea what was going on with FOM, but I felt a little sorry for him. When DDay occurred, I felt nothing for him at all. I felt mortally wounded by LC. I was in complete shock and immediately the walls of defense came up. Both LCs and my parents had divorced just prior to us getting married because of affairs. Now this. I am not one to talk about my feelings, especially when I have been so deeply wounded. I couldn't understand why LC would do this after all the sacrifice we had made to get here. Was I not providing enough for the family? I was not abusive, or a druggie, or a drunkard. I took several weeks to "process" this, to search my feelings, to decide what to do. After 2 weeks, LC and I finally spoke in detail about everything. 6 weeks later I wanted all the graphic details, because every time I had some down time all I could do is visualize her in his bed and I needed to know what all had occurred. I know that LC wanted me to go hurt FOM, the trouble was that if I did I would have probably killed him and that wouldn't have solved anything. I also realized that I was as much to blame for the marital problems as LC, but not for the A.

It was my negligence of our relationship that sent her out to find what she was missing here. I realized that I needed to change too. It wasn't like either of us had good role models for successful relations. We adopted "Brutal Honesty" as our way of communicating difficult matters and eventually were able to just talk with each other. After reading many books on relationships and figuring out what our individual love languages are, we began the road to recovery. It hasn't always been a smooth ride because on certain things we are complete polar opposites (like shopping, camping, and talking), but we are trying to please each other by fulfilling the needs of the other. We are also spending some much need "we time" without kids in tow. This is something that we were missing the first 18 years of marriage, but desperately needed. Each day LC and I work on making our relationship better. It is no longer a power struggle, we make compromises, we acknowledge and respect each other's opinions, and we have fun. As for trust (the foundation of any relationship), the line has been drawn in the sand clearly and I trust that LC will never have a need to approach it again.

Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Docp_] #40109
12/25/10 03:02 AM
12/25/10 03:02 AM
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Thank you, Docp. And LC.

LA


The Paradoxical Commandments

Married 28 years/Together 30
Recovered 10 years
MALovingAnyway@gmail.com
Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Docp_] #41806
12/29/10 09:15 PM
12/29/10 09:15 PM
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Like LA, I'd like to thank you both for resposting your story. I'm attempting to cut/paste subsequent posts from the Construction Zone. I apologize in advance if it doesn't work.


Originally Posted By: Larry
#26086 - Mon Nov 22 2010 05:17 AM Re: Success Stories Construction Zone [Re: Docp_]


One More Year! Registered: Fri Sep 03 2010
Posts: 2244
Loc: West Texas


Hi Doc, good to see you here. Your story is typical of so many in your line of business - but you know that. And your story is so typical of many in other lines of business as well, where one spouse has to spend their time on career instead of family; military, traveling reps, doctors, some lawyers, and so forth.

Thank you for posting. This is a safe place to discuss issues and problems.

One thing stands out in your story; when adversity hit, both of you hit the books, the instruction manual(s). Good for you!


Originally Posted By: TimeHeals
#26096 - Mon Nov 22 2010 05:50 AM Re: Success Stories Construction Zone [Re: Lifechoice]



© Registered: Sun Nov 07 2010
Posts: 692
Loc: Tennessee

Originally Posted By: Lifechoice

Hindsight I'm still not sure how much of the 5 year friendship with FOM was actually an EA. I like to believe it was simply a friendship because my DH knew everything, but there was flirting and such going on. I also found out much later that his W was unaware of our close friendship.

When I went through withdrawal, according to my therapist, I mourned the friendship, not the A. I didn't have any problem at all giving up the A, I had a really tough time giving up the friendship. For our entire friendship FOM was my "go to" guy whenever I was stressed about something. For all those years he sat and talked with me, listened and offered up advice. THAT is what I missed when the friendship had to end.



I was wondering if you had read Shirley P. Glass's book, "Not Just Friends"? I ask this because your situation is not that uncomon, and the items that I highlighted above are pretty much covered in detail in that work.

I also read some of your H's response, and I see he is almost taking responsibility for your affair, and while your marriage had its issues prior to the affair, I wonder if those might not have been solved in some other way had the affair not taken place. I think it's fair to take responsibility for one's contribution to the state of the marriage prior to the affair, but I really do hate to see the BS taking responsibility for the affair.

And there is an opportunity to learn something simple and yet profound here: Friendships with members of the opposite sex other than your spouse that involve confiding your deep and intimate thoughts can ultimately lead to more and more of your boundaries coming down and an affair that pushes your M into a crisis it may or may not survive.

As I said, you're not alone. This problem seems to be happening more and more, and part of it may be that this message about simple boundaries is getting lost among all the other messages we are bombarded with on a daily basis.

And there is another simple message: the way we keep the bond alive with our spouses is by confiding our deepest, most intimate thoughts, but we have to trust that they will listen and not sit in judgement or invalidate these things or we will not feel safe to share them.



If this works, I will transfer Lifechoice's response to TimeHeals from the Construction Zone.

Thanks,
Ace




We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Ace] #41813
12/29/10 09:23 PM
12/29/10 09:23 PM
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Hopefully this will work, too. (I'm attempting to transfer LC's response to TimeHeals reply.)

Here we go!

Originally Posted By: Lifechoice
#26596 - Mon Nov 22 2010 05:28 PM Re: Success Stories Construction Zone [Re: TimeHeals]


Member Registered: Mon Aug 30 2010
Posts: 155

TimeHeals,

Thank you for your thoughts.

Yes Not Just Friends was one of the first books I read after I ended the A. Post-A I quickly learned how typical my situation was. My A was so textbook my name could be in most of the books I've read

The reason I "sort of" still question things from 98-03 is because I didn't hide anything from my DH, sadly even the flirting. I use to be very flirty with everyone and always felt it was innocent and safe. I do not feel that way about flirting anymore and don't flirt with anyone. I also didn't hide from my DH the fact FOM was my "go to" guy. I never discussed anything with FOM that I didn't tell my DH about. Quite often I would tell him how FOM was able to de-stress me about such and such. A few times when I needed a guy to help me do something, if my DH wasn't able, he suggested I call FOM and see if he could help me.

As for his W not knowing about our friendship, I always assumed she knew the same stuff my DH did. It wasn't until after I ended things FOM told me his W didn't know how close we were. In hindsight and knowing this now I'm sure in social situations I probably shared things with her she didn't know about because I assumed she did.
Originally Posted By: TimeHeals

I also read some of your H's response, and I see he is almost taking responsibility for your affair, and while your marriage had its issues prior to the affair, I wonder if those might not have been solved in some other way had the affair not taken place. I think it's fair to take responsibility for one's contribution to the state of the marriage prior to the affair, but I really do hate to see the BS taking responsibility for the affair.



I agree his post does read that way and at one point he did try to take responsibility for it. It took him a while to accept it, but he does know he is not responsible for the A at all. Even when he tried to take responsibility I always told him, although we both were responsible for the state of our marriage, the A is all mine and none of it was his fault. His post was actually written a few years ago and posted on MB. I also have a copy of it in my personal journal. When I asked him if he minded posting it here he agreed to it, but pretty much just copied and pasted it from my journal. I asked him if he thought he wanted to update anything and he declined.

What he posted here is slightly different than the one on MB, but pretty close which is why he registered to post it vs me posting it and giving him credit. We didn't want to violate any copyright rules since there is an almost identical version posted on another board.
Originally Posted By: TimeHeals

And there is an opportunity to learn something simple and yet profound here: Friendships with members of the opposite sex other than your spouse that involve confiding your deep and intimate thoughts can ultimately lead to more and more of your boundaries coming down and an affair that pushes your M into a crisis it may or may not survive.

As I said, you're not alone. This problem seems to be happening more and more, and part of it may be that this message about simple boundaries is getting lost among all the other messages we are bombarded with on a daily basis.

And there is another simple message: the way we keep the bond alive with our spouses is by confiding our deepest, most intimate thoughts, but we have to trust that they will listen and not sit in judgement or invalidate these things or we will not feel safe to share them.



ITA! It is all about boundaries. I honestly never really even thought about them, now you can bet I think about them all the time.


Thanks to Lifechoice, Docp and TimeHeals for additional insights into why you have been successful.

Ace



We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Ace] #41919
12/29/10 11:54 PM
12/29/10 11:54 PM
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Thanks Ace for taking the time to move everything over here!

Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Lifechoice] #42737
12/31/10 02:26 PM
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I just re-read this entire thread and again want to commend both of you for your candor and time in sharing your stories.

One thing comes to mind....and my DH and I have the same scenario.

Might it have been different for Docp in his response to LC's confession if she and FOM had actually had intercourse.....repeatedly....in his marital bed?

As a BS, it seems like it was easier for me to forgive because my then-WH did NOT even meet OW in person, let alone exchange bodily fluids with her. (Crass as it may seem, that's the reality. Their intense emotional connection ~ including phone & email sex ~ and related difficult withdrawal from the addiction was horrendous enough.)

By no means do I intend to minimize what LC or my then-WH did; I merely am commenting on what may be perceived as "degrees of offenses" and I may start a thread related to it possibly entitled "EA, E/PA, PA....Is One Actually Worse Than Another?"

This brings up another point: LC and my then-WH confessed for different reasons. She confessed because she chose to of her own volition but my then-WH confessed because he was forced to by his adult 20something DD/DS. This might also be a future thread possibly entitled: "WS Confession or BS Exposure...a Comparison ~ Does It Really Matter?"

Thoughts?

Thanks...and Happy New Year!

:hny!:

Ace



We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

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Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Ace] #42870
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Quote:
Might it have been different for Docp in his response to LC's confession if she and FOM had actually had intercourse.....repeatedly....in his marital bed?


YIKES! I don't even want to think about what his reaction to that would have been. Docp told me after my confession he didn't think he would have been able to stay if FOM and I had slept together. Of course we all know we really don't know what we would do until we are staring it in the face.

Docp posted once or twice on a BS board and every single person told him not to believe me that there was no sex involved. Thankfully he did believe me.

It bothered me for a long time especially when it came to my coworkers that many were convinced we had sex. Since they worked with both FOM and myself many formed their own opinion and the rumors flew for years. It was very hard to ignore and I REALLY wanted to set the record straight. Docp just kept reminding me that no one elses opinion mattered except his.

I can list several reasons off the top of my head why FOM and I didn't have sex (if anyone wants to know them I will share). The opportunity was there, thankfully we never took advantage of it.

Quote:
By no means do I intend to minimize what LC or my then-WH did; I merely am commenting on what may be perceived as "degrees of offenses" and I may start a thread related to it possibly entitled "EA, E/PA, PA....Is One Actually Worse Than Another?"


I am one who minimized what I did and believed my A wasn't as bad as others because we didn't have sex. Docp reminded me many times it isn't what we DIDN'T do that was so hurtful it was what we DID do.







Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Lifechoice] #42902
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LC, I wanted to say thank you so much for sharing your story, and to your DH as well. Our stories have some similarities (though sadly I DID jump off that final cliff). I also went pretty whack-a-do on FOM. Your words are the first time I have heard anyone else say the things I felt and went through. FOM wanted to "take it to the grave" as well, and when it ended he just went on with life like it hadn't happened while I was unraveling. I feel less crazy knowing I'm not the only one.

Your DH seems somewhat like mine too. He made no bones about how much I had hurt him....but he also wanted to recover and make our M better. I said on another thread that even though I knew at the time he was rare, I didn't realize just how rare.

I hope to read more of your story and what you all are doing now. You say you are a talker and your DH is a processor. We are the same, so I might pick your brain. smile

Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: herfuturesbright] #43290
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I'm always happy to help. What I put here is just the tip of the iceberg. It was ugly, I acted like a fool, and totally embarrassed myself. It's very scary to feel so out of control and not be able to stop yourself.

My goal is to help people avoid making the same mistakes I did and/or learn lessons from my mistakes.


Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Lifechoice] #71015
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Originally Posted By: Lifechoice
I can list several reasons off the top of my head why FOM and I didn't have sex (if anyone wants to know them I will share). The opportunity was there, thankfully we never took advantage of it.


I'd like to know. scratch

Again, thanks for sharing your story, LC. If these reasons might give others a glimpse of how to avoid what you went through and might stop short of a full-blown PA, it might be helpful for you to list your reasons and how you succeeded in avoiding this.

Thanks,
Ace



We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Ace] #71522
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Originally Posted By: Ace
Originally Posted By: Lifechoice
I can list several reasons off the top of my head why FOM and I didn't have sex (if anyone wants to know them I will share). The opportunity was there, thankfully we never took advantage of it.


I'd like to know. scratch

Again, thanks for sharing your story, LC. If these reasons might give others a glimpse of how to avoid what you went through and might stop short of a full-blown PA, it might be helpful for you to list your reasons and how you succeeded in avoiding this.

Thanks,
Ace



Since you asked here you go smile

These are in no particular order:

1. I was best friends with FOM's SIL and many times over the years pre-A she commented on how "wild" FOM was in college and how he often picked up women in bars for one night stands. I am a self-proclaimed germaphobe, I know my history and know I do not have any diseases. Since I knew he was "wild" I certainly didn't want to catch something from him if he had something.

2. Early on I flat out told him I had never had sex with someone I was not in a committed relationship with. I also mentioned since we were both married and a committed relationship was not possible we would never have sex. That same day I told him another reason we would never have sex was because I wasn't willing to cheapen sex by having it in cars, sleazy hotel rooms, etc. The opportunity was certainly there many times and neither of us pressed the issue. This was almost like a game for me. I reminded him often about the no sex rule, mostly in a teasing, game playing sort of way.

3. I am incredibly fertile and did not want to risk getting pregnant.

4. I knew having sex with him would make things "weird" and I just didn't want to go there. My needs were being met w/o involving sex so why bother.

5. He was a terrible kisser and I often thought he would totally suck at sex. IOW, I wasn't willing to ruin the fantasy by experiencing it in case it sucked.

6. Even when we were being physical I never felt the need for sex.

I have no idea what his stand was on it because he never pressed it either. I suspect he felt like I did that his needs were being met w/o sex being involved. He probably just wasn't that into me smile

During a few make-out sessions he would abruptly announce it was probably time I leave. At the time I thought it was odd, had my opinion as to why, would feel victorious because of my "we will not have sex rule" and left.

Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Lifechoice] #72233
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Thanks for sharing that, LC. It does give a broader picture of your journey and the inner struggles you overcame and continue to conquer.

Originally Posted By: Lifechoice
I'm always happy to help. What I put here is just the tip of the iceberg. It was ugly, I acted like a fool, and totally embarrassed myself. It's very scary to feel so out of control and not be able to stop yourself.

My goal is to help people avoid making the same mistakes I did and/or learn lessons from my mistakes.


Might you consider posting some of these ugly aspects at a later date in the newly created Way Station? You could possibly link such a thread here so posters could read about your success subsequently to hearing how dark and twisted (you said 'ugly, right?) your thoughts and actions were back then. Your journal thoughts from your near-nervous breakdown may enlighten others experiencing the same oppressions.

Thanks for making time to post here, LC. If my request for the ugly details is too daunting, I understand. But often, we have not because we ask not!

Ace


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

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Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Ace] #72270
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Originally Posted By: Ace
Might you consider posting some of these ugly aspects at a later date in the newly created Way Station? You could possibly link such a thread here so posters could read about your success subsequently to hearing how dark and twisted (you said 'ugly, right?) your thoughts and actions were back then. Your journal thoughts from your near-nervous breakdown may enlighten others experiencing the same oppressions.

Thanks for making time to post here, LC. If my request for the ugly details is too daunting, I understand. But often, we have not because we ask not!

Ace


I'll think about it. It was so long ago and I'm not quite sure I want to revisit it again. Some of it I remember clear as day other aspects are getting harder to remember the further away I get, some of it I rather just pretend didn't happen blush.

It's an interesting place to be that's for sure. It was like having 2 people in me. There was a rational person who knew how to act and what to say and then there was a psycho-freak person who couldn't keep her mouth shut and couldn't stop irrational behavior. I remember asking my IC what the heck was wrong with me that I couldn't control myself. I knew better, just sometimes couldn't stop myself from saying something or acting out. It was so beyond who I am and how I normally act.

Even now when I think about it, it was such a no-brainer to just say nothing and walk away, at the time I just couldn't do it though.

Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Lifechoice] #73319
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oh look, here it is! How did I miss it? Thank you both for sharing it and dragging up the memories...I'm not sure I'd be able to remember the details if I tried.


Married 20 years (this year) ~10y since dday(?)
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Which way do you like yourself? ~ Stosny
Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Squeaky Tree] #97639
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I wasn't going to post about this but as more time passed I think it might be of value to someone at some point.

A few weeks ago I'm pretty sure I had a FOM sighting. It was from afar which is why I'm not 100% sure it was him and since I didn't take any time to study this person I can't be 100% sure. If it was not him this person looked like and had the mannerisms of him.

So how did it make me feel? The first thing I thought about was what Dr H says about NC for life. Somewhere in one of his books I read about how a person will always have feelings for the OP, yada, yada, yada. In my case that was not true. Other than the initial shock and thinking "Holy Crap that sure looks like FOM", I felt nothing. I have thought about it several times since it happened and thankfully still nothing. I admit I was a bit afraid as time passed the unhealthy anger would surface, I would start to think about the A or start to obsess over things involving the A. Now that several weeks have passed I can say none of those things happened.

I still believe NC for life is necessary, but I no longer wonder what would happen if I see the FOM. I still don't ever want to be in the same room as him or face to face with him, but I feel good that due to my history I was able to walk away as if nothing happened.

I have wondered if I would feel differently if I was 100% sure it was him. I honestly don't believe so.

I cannot stress enough how time away from the A is such a huge factor in being able to see it for exactly what is was. crazy

So no one wonders, Yes, I shared it with Docp right after it happened.

Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Lifechoice] #97647
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Thanks for sharing, LC. The FOM in my sitch doesn't live in the same state....in fact, I don't know where he lives because he left our state to go to grad school, and he might be finished.

If I did see him, I would not approach him or speak to him and would tell DH. Right now, there is a part of me that probably would feel some anger, but not because of pining. More because of anger at myself for not A)not doing that B)being too stupid to realize that my life would never be the same and it would never go away.

Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: herfuturesbright] #97677
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Originally Posted By: heremainsfaithful
Thanks for sharing, LC. The FOM in my sitch doesn't live in the same state....in fact, I don't know where he lives because he left our state to go to grad school, and he might be finished.

If I did see him, I would not approach him or speak to him and would tell DH. Right now, there is a part of me that probably would feel some anger, but not because of pining. More because of anger at myself for not A)not doing that B)being too stupid to realize that my life would never be the same and it would never go away.



Part of my uncertainty that it was him is I did not believe we would ever be in the same place at the same time ever again. I kept thinking there was no way it could be him because it didn't make sense he would be where he was.

What you said above about the anger is exactly where I was after the A ended and for far too long. My anger was so bad that I was acting irrational. All along I thought it was anger at FOM. As time went on I realized it was misplaced anger toward him when I was actually incredibly angry at myself. I took me a looooong time to see it for what it was.

Another thing that contributed to it was I was trying to bottle up ALL the negative emotions I was feeling in regard to the aftermath of the A. Most stemmed from the fact I felt so foolish for doing what I did and became very hard on myself. It took taking a long hard look at myself and actually allowing myself to feel my negative emotions. Both were extremely hard to do in regard to the A.

I'm not typically one to bottle my emotions and most of the time wear them on my sleeve. In regard to the A I would get to a certain point in feeling my emotions, then cap it because it sucked so much to feel them. UGH, there were so many and they combated each other I don't even like to think about my mental state at the time blush. Therapy definitely helped that's for sure, lol

Last edited by Lifechoice; 04/25/11 12:16 AM. Reason: typo
Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Lifechoice] #97797
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Quote:
Part of my uncertainty that it was him is I did not believe we would ever be in the same place at the same time ever again. I kept thinking there was no way it could be him because it didn't make sense he would be where he was.

What you said above about the anger is exactly where I was after the A ended and for far too long. My anger was so bad that I was acting irrational. All along I thought it was anger at FOM. As time went on I realized it was misplaced anger toward him when I was actually incredibly angry at myself. I took me a looooong time to see it for what it was.
Another thing that contributed to it was I was trying to bottle up ALL the negative emotions I was feeling in regard to the aftermath of the A. Most stemmed from the fact I felt so foolish for doing what I did and became very hard on myself. It took taking a long hard look at myself and actually allowing myself to feel my negative emotions. Both were extremely hard to do in regard to the A.

I'm not typically one to bottle my emotions and most of the time wear them on my sleeve. In regard to the A I would get to a certain point in feeling my emotions, then cap it because it sucked so much to feel them. UGH, there were so many and they combated each other I don't even like the think about my mental state at the time blush. Therapy definitely helped that's for sure, lol


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
WOW!!!!!

That was POWERFUL!!!! Thank you LC...... hug

Not2fun


" If you couldn't change your partner when you were together, you sure aren't going to now that you aren't together..." Words of the teacher of the court mandated parenting class...and the ONE thing that stuck out to me!!!
Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Not2fun] #123331
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I decided to add something to our success story.

On June 8 Docp and I celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary. We took a fabulous trip to Scotland and enjoyed every second together.

As were were flying home I was thinking about how much we have been through over the last 25 years, good and bad. An 8 hour plane ride gives a person a great deal of time to think. In reflecting it's unbelievable how fast the time has gone by. Of course in thinking about the years I thought about 2003. In 2003 I was convinced I was done with my marriage, I didn't like Docp very much and picked a fight with him on our anniversary. I remember it like it was yesterday and not wanting anything to do with him at all that day. I was already setting myself up financially to leave and although the A hadn't become physical yet the secrets had already started.

When it came to years 2003-2006 my trip down memory lane was not very pleasant. I felt a full range of emotions while thinking about what we went through separately and what we survived together. I realized how easy it would be to become down on myself over my poor choices, but I knew I didn't want to go there. So instead I though about our recovery journey and saw how far we have come. Over the years I have gone from not liking him very much and planning my escape to feeling so blessed and appreciative to have him in my life.

I would not wish the wild ride of recovery on anyone, but I am glad we both stuck it out and did the work we needed to do to makes things better. I am beyond lucky to have such a wonderful husband who I cannot imagine being without.

Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Lifechoice] #220543
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Hey LC and DocP,

A fairly new poster was asking about FWW's and recovery and I linked a post to this thread for him. I thought I'd bump it so it might help others, too.

How are things? It's been nine months since your trip to Scotland to celebrate your 25th. Congratulations! Hope all's well.

Ace



We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

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Re: Docp and Lifechoice's Success Story [Re: Ace] #222253
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Originally Posted By: Ace
Hey LC and DocP,

A fairly new poster was asking about FWW's and recovery and I linked a post to this thread for him. I thought I'd bump it so it might help others, too.

How are things? It's been nine months since your trip to Scotland to celebrate your 25th. Congratulations! Hope all's well.

Ace


Thanks for bumping this up, I hope it helps someone. I re-read it and my part seems too long and a bit confusing at times though. Oh well, can't change it now, lol. It's hard to believe how many years have gone by.

Things are really good for us. Thanks for asking smile

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4th of July was a significant day in my A thus making it a HUGE trigger for my DH so I thought it would be a good time to add to our success story

Since my confession I have dreaded what was going to happen every 4th of July. Yesterday I was reflecting back over the last 7 years and am so happy to see how far DH and I have grown individually and as a couple.

The first year after my confession DH had been triggering for about 2 weeks prior to so by the time the 4th rolled around things were bad. I was a nervous wreck and started the day out by pulling my vehicle out of the garage and crashing into our oldest DD's car. I ripped her passenger side mirror off and broke my tail light. The day went downhill from there and by night time we were both emotionally exhausted just trying to survive the day.

As the years passed I have noticed his triggering has gotten shorter and shorter and things started to feel like they've gotten better. This year for the first time I found myself not nervous at all as we approached the 4th. Although I was watching for his typical signs of triggering I didn't notice any, I think this is a large part on why I was able to remain calm. As we have for the past 7 years we kept things very low key. We had a nice day spending time with our girls and by nightfall DH seemed to be doing OK. When it was time for bed I asked him what he thought of the day and he said it was good. I fell asleep feeling like we may have reached a "new normal"

This morning I thought about how we went from an emotional exhausting day in 2005 to a good day in 2012 and the answer is we have both done A LOT of work to get here. I remember initially how hard it was to work on myself to change the things about me that allowed me to have an A. Following my EP's was like learning to walk. It was awkward, I felt out of sorts for a long time and I found myself feeling like I was tripping over myself to follow my new rules. I am happy to say now it's easy and normal to follow my EPs.

Thinking about my EPs made me think about the saying "Once a cheater, always a cheater" and how I make it my mission to never be that person again. Is that person still in me? Yes, but it comes down to choices about what I do with that person. IMO, to remain faithful a FWS makes a choice every single day to stay on the right path. Here is what I mean by that. For the last few years I have been volunteering at a hospital. I sit at an information desk and encounter a lot of people. If a good looking man walks up to my desk and is overly friendly, do I want to flirt with him? You betcha! Do I? No way, because that is what got me in trouble in the first place. I use to think it was ok to benignly flirt with people and have it mean nothing. Now that I know better I can consciously make the choice to flirt or not and I always choose to not go there.

As a couple, DH and I seemed to have settled into a great place. I feel like we have a marriage I personally never thought we would have. I'm having a hard time putting my finger on what it is that makes it feel so great because there are so many things. I guess the biggest things are mutual respect, communication, letting go of the ridiculous power struggles we use to have, learning what each other's Love Language is and, most importantly, speaking it. I have said it before and I will say it again Dr Chapman's The Five Love Languages was key in saving our marriage. For me, it also answered the big question of "Why". After I read it I knew exactly why I had an A. For my personal healing I had to know why I cheated in order to fully get over it.

It took me a long time to get here, but now I feel like I'm happy and content and this is a really good place to be smile

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