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VIBrations #9923
10/12/10 09:10 PM
10/12/10 09:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 932
Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Vibrissa Offline OP
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Vibrissa  Offline OP
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Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
I LOVE this little Blog section. I think it is great. I thought I'd chime in with one of my own.

It feels like I'm constantly marinating ideas on one topic or another. Thoughts and concepts float around in my head until I can wrap my head around them and make sense of them. I had toyed with the idea of starting a journal to get all the thoughts out, but maybe this blog will serve that purpose.

Here's what's been rattling around my head for the last few days. I know - it's pretty long so if you make it to the end, CONGRATS! Really this is just a place to get everything out of my head for a little while grin


The Giver The Taker and Balance
on the importance of self-introspection

There are 2 elements that make up most people and manifest themselves within a relationship. The Giver and The Taker. I know that I have experienced both within myself, sometimes at the very same time.

The Giver is the part of us that wants to make others, particularly our spouse, happy. It's that part that flutters when our spouse smiles after we give them a present. It's that secret grin we hide as we plan a pleasant surprise for our partner.

The Taker is the part of us that wants to ensure we are happy. It's the part of us that screams "NO" when we know we are tired and need a nap and couldn't possibly add one more thing on our plate. It is the part of us that craves a hug after a long, exhausting day.

Two sides of a coin, neither better or worse than the other. The danger comes when a balance is not struck between the two.

Imagine a cute little puppy. He has a Giver and Taker as well. His Giver will lick your face til your skin is raw just to share his love with you. His Taker will knock over a child to get to his favorite bone. The only way to govern that puppy is to train him, to provide outside guidance to reign in his urges. The dog can be trained to control the Giver and Taker.

So can we.

Now that training can come from outside stimuli as well. When we are young our parents can help shape it. Religion and social conventions can also help.

However, the most powerful and effective tool for shaping our Giver and Taker – that which provides the balance of the two – is our intellect. It is what interprets the desires of the Giver and the Taker and, ultimately, it is the arbiter of all our choices. We can try to pin the responsibility of our choices on external stimuli, parents, religion, social convention, but ultimately responsibility lies within us for allowing those external stimuli influence over our choices. (and yes, some of those stimuli have enormous and sometimes overwhelming influence over us but that is another post)

So how do we navigate the Giver and Taker? How do we find the balance?

Perhaps, the key is knowing they exist and working to understand WHAT exactly it is they want: self-introspection.

A year ago DH and I bought a house. Our first house. We were so excited to finally move out of our apartment. In that apartment we had a trash compacter. It would hold a TON of trash. When the trash bin was full, DH would take it and put it outside our front door and take it with him to the dumpster the next morning on his way to work. It was a gated apartment complex that didn't allow pets, so there was no fear of animals getting into it.

When we finally moved, we bought a trash can – no compacter. It seemed like we went through SO much trash now. That can was always full. I would take the full bags out of the can, and tie them up and put them in the garage, for my husband to take to the dumpster across the alley.

After a while DH started to dislike this arrangement. The trash in the garage attracted critters.

So we had to find another solution. He started leaving the full trash bags in the kitchen right by the trash can. It wasn't a great solution, but I figured I could live with it.

After a few months I started getting into a really clean kick. Taking some flylady principles I started a program of keeping the house clean. Those bags of trash sitting in my kitchen began to become an irritant. But...I couldn't put them in the garage, and I didn't want to take the trash out to the dumpster. I kept meaning to bring up the issue with DH so we could find an alternate solution, but for some reason I never thought of it when we were actually together so we never had the conversation.

Then this Saturday NOTHING seemed to be going right. None of it DH's fault – it was just one of those days designed to test patience and I was failing miserable. I came home from running errands in a temper. DH noticed and offered to take the baby to run a few errands. While he was gone I proceeded to do some housework and throw myself a lovely little DJ party in my head.

What did my mind fasten on? The trash, sitting in my kitchen. I'm a mom – I work 40 hours a week, I barely have time to think much less try to stay on top of my house, DH never helps me, always sabotaging me keeping the trash in the kitchen...on and on and on....I was getting myself really worked up. Until I heard DH's ringtone on my cell. I calmed myself down and answered. He was offering to buy me lunch so I wouldn't have to worry about cooking for the family. He asked how I was doing. I honestly replied "It is one of those days, I need a bit of time to calm myself down." He said he was sorry I was having a rough time and if I needed anything from him to just ask.

Hard to be mad at someone working to make your life easier.

After he hung up I folded laundry and spent a little time with my Giver and Taker.

What did my Taker want? The trash taken out.

What did my Giver want? A happy husband.

My Giver didn't want DH to have to take out the trash RIGHT when it was full – sometimes it was raining, or cold, or he was tired from a long day. My Giver wanted to ensure that this chore wasn't an inconvenience to DH. My Giver shuddered at the thought of nagging him to take out the trash.

But my Taker wanted that trash gone. It was annoying and frustrating, and with all the other chores I do, I DIDN'T want to be the one taking the trash out as well. My Taker was a half-step away from SD my husband into taking out the trash when I wanted him to.

"So, what do I REALLY want" I asked myself? Because SD-ing and nagging weren't options my Giver would accept.

Really, I just want the trash out of my kitchen. I want to put it back in the garage where it is out of the way. My Taker would LOVE to just throw it in the Garage and let my husband deal with it if he doesn't like the critters. My Giver absolutely refused to do something my DH already stated he dislikes.

THIS is the impasse that is reached in conflict and negotiation so many times. When you focus on what you THINK you want and the ONLY solution you perceive as the RIGHT solution.

Solution 1: Trash in garage attracting critters. DH miserable, me happy.
Solution 2: Trash in kitchen. DH happy, me miserable.
Or Solution 3: Me resort to SDs and DJs to MAKE DH take out the trash when I wanted him to. EVERYONE unhappy

There HAD to be a better solution. So I asked my Taker again: What do you want? Really, I just want the trash out of the kitchen. I don't care WHEN it gets taken out, I just want it out.

And then the solution was apparent. I just had to get something to keep the critters away from the trash in the garage and then we'd all be happy.

So when DH got home I asked him about trying out a trash bin in the garage to put our trash in and he can empty it out Saturday mornings while we do our chores. He was willing to give it a try.

I know it's a bit simplistic and silly but I've found that if I spend time actually trying to figure out what I WANT, not trying to figure out my ideal solution, but identifying the problem itself, often the win/win solution just presents itself. Sometimes it takes a little while to get there.

MB lays out a guideline for successful negotiation, the second step of which is Identifying the problem from both perspectives. I think that THIS is where most negotiations get hung up – they begin arguing the 'only possible solution' from each perspective instead of answering the question What do I want? At the core, What do I want?

At least, that is what I've found in my own marriage.

Now some problems are much bigger, more complicated and require real efforts at brainstorming and thinking outside the box, but you will never find an acceptable solution if you can't distill the essence of what it is you and your spouse want. In order to do that, you have to be willing to ask yourself and get to the core of the absolute most basic thing you want. Not how you want it met, or the problem solved, but the actual want itself. Sometimes that is hard for me – I'm not that great at communicating, even with myself.


Moi: 33
DH: Kenichi 33
M: 8/2005
DD 6 yrs
DS 3 yrs
Ze Blog
Re: VIBrations [Re: Vibrissa] #9952
10/12/10 11:26 PM
10/12/10 11:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,780
NewEveryDay Offline
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Vibrissa, welcome to MA! Great to see you making yourself at home smile


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: VIBrations [Re: NewEveryDay] #9957
10/12/10 11:40 PM
10/12/10 11:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,611
wiser_now Offline
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[Linked Image]

Oh my gosh, I love the name of your blog and I can so relate to what you wrote about the trash - which is about so much more, really! Excellent beginning... I will be following with interest.



A happy marriage is a long conversation which always seems too short. --Andre Maurois

Re: VIBrations [Re: wiser_now] #9961
10/13/10 12:04 AM
10/13/10 12:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,309
Colorado
LovingAnyway Offline
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A wonderful post, Vibrissa. I love the way you charted your self-struggle, then brainstorming, and offered it to your DH.

I'm really glad you're here. Thank you so much for creating a blog and sharing. I think you laid out a great process to addressing bigger, more complicated issues as well.

LA


The Paradoxical Commandments

Married 28 years/Together 30
Recovered 10 years
MALovingAnyway@gmail.com
Re: VIBrations [Re: LovingAnyway] #9975
10/13/10 12:37 AM
10/13/10 12:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
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herfuturesbright  Offline
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The Castle Aaaggghh...
Yay V! Even if you're blog titles does make me think of the Beach Boys smile

Re: VIBrations [Re: herfuturesbright] #9992
10/13/10 02:14 AM
10/13/10 02:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 932
Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Vibrissa Offline OP
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Vibrissa  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 932
Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Beach Boys you say?



Moi: 33
DH: Kenichi 33
M: 8/2005
DD 6 yrs
DS 3 yrs
Ze Blog
Re: VIBrations [Re: Vibrissa] #10060
10/13/10 02:01 PM
10/13/10 02:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
herfuturesbright Offline
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herfuturesbright  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 17,282
The Castle Aaaggghh...
AAAACCCKKK! My eyes! My ears! The horror!!!!

Re: VIBrations [Re: herfuturesbright] #10072
10/13/10 02:16 PM
10/13/10 02:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 932
Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Vibrissa Offline OP
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Vibrissa  Offline OP
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Posts: 932
Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
hehehe....


Moi: 33
DH: Kenichi 33
M: 8/2005
DD 6 yrs
DS 3 yrs
Ze Blog
Re: VIBrations [Re: Vibrissa] #11549
10/18/10 01:10 PM
10/18/10 01:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 932
Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Vibrissa Offline OP
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Vibrissa  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 932
Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Just want to update.

Spent the weekend away from the forum and enjoying my family. It was REALLY nice to completely focus on them and not keep wondering what was going on on-line. I need to find more balance in my life.

I'm still very supportive of Marriage Advocates, plan on posting more in the future (I've got about 3 blog posts currently in the works), but I won't be able to get on much in the next couple of weeks...work is FINALLY starting to pick up! YAY!!!

Take care all!

Vibs


Moi: 33
DH: Kenichi 33
M: 8/2005
DD 6 yrs
DS 3 yrs
Ze Blog
Re: VIBrations [Re: Vibrissa] #11603
10/18/10 03:07 PM
10/18/10 03:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,747
T
Telly Offline
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T
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Posts: 1,747
Do you work from home, Vibrissa? (What does Vibrissa stand for, btw? I'm sure it's obvious, but I miss things sometimes. :-))

Glad to hear you had a nice weekend, too!


Married 13 years
D10
D5
Re: VIBrations [Re: Telly] #11860
10/19/10 12:11 AM
10/19/10 12:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,309
Colorado
LovingAnyway Offline
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LovingAnyway  Offline
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Posts: 2,309
Colorado
I'm glad work is picking up for you, Vib...sounds like what you've been wanting to happen.

Look forward to your blogs (multiples?) or more posts to your blog (which is incredible)...Thank you for the update.

LA


The Paradoxical Commandments

Married 28 years/Together 30
Recovered 10 years
MALovingAnyway@gmail.com
Re: VIBrations [Re: Vibrissa] #12212
10/20/10 12:19 PM
10/20/10 12:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 126
S
Saynomore Offline
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Posts: 126
Hi Vibrissa!

So good to see you here! I am reading like a mad woman and plan to read blogs today. I feel like a kid in a candy store. Funny to find that many of the "lost" were banned. I figured they were all enlightened. Looking forward to your posts.

God's Blessings,

Say

Re: VIBrations [Re: Vibrissa] #31277
12/02/10 05:06 PM
12/02/10 05:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,451
Ace Online
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Ace  Online
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Originally Posted By: Vibrissa
Just want to update.

Spent the weekend away from the forum and enjoying my family. It was REALLY nice to completely focus on them and not keep wondering what was going on on-line. I need to find more balance in my life.

I'm still very supportive of Marriage Advocates, plan on posting more in the future (I've got about 3 blog posts currently in the works), but I won't be able to get on much in the next couple of weeks...work is FINALLY starting to pick up! YAY!!!

Take care all!

Vibs



Hey Vibs.....glad you got some time to re-connect with your family.

How's it going now?

Looking forward to reading your 3 blog posts-in-the-works you mentioned several weeks ago.

Thanks,
Ace


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: VIBrations [Re: Ace] #37809
12/19/10 06:08 AM
12/19/10 06:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 932
Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Vibrissa Offline OP
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Vibrissa  Offline OP
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Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Dipping a toe back in - we'll see how we do.

I've spent a lot of time thinking and writing. Sorting my thoughts. Thought I'd share some:

Prologue
I was about 16, sitting with a handful of ‘friends'. I don't remember what it was we were talking about but somehow the conversation turned to me and my vocabulary. "You use too many big words Vibrissa" my best friend stated. "Yeah I can't understand you half the time" chimed in my boyfriend. "I usually have no clue what you're talking about." "Yeah" "Hey new limit: you can't use words of more than 3 syllables'. Ha ha ha....

We weren't friends much longer, but that's another story.

Dethroning the DJ Queen

I'll admit I'm arrogant and can be a bit of a condescending B. I felt smarter than most kids in high school, my husband readily admits he thinks I'm VERY smart. (I'd always mentally translate this into "smarter than HIM").

I used to not have a problem with that.

Early in our marriage (though one could argue we're still in the ‘early' phase of our marriage) Kenichi (as DH wants to be called) and I went to a church conference and one of the talks given was by a well known therapist in our area. He had a presentation on hurtful behaviors in marriage. I don't remember all of them but they were things like, name calling, stonewalling, stuff like that. The last one was contempt.

I thought to myself - "How could anyone feel contempt for their spouse? I'll never feel that for Kenichi. He's so wonderful" *siiigh* and I snuggled into Kenichi on the bench. (Note this was about 6 months into the marriage).

I sat and listened to the presentation as the speaker described contempt. Basically it was acting condescending, thinking you were better than your spouse. On and on. I had a little nagging sensation in the back of my mind. But I said to myself "It's nice that DH acknowledges that I'm smarter than him. It isn't contempt, I REALLY AM smarter than him."

For the next 4ish years off and on I'd remember that talk. I'd remember the bit about contempt and think to myself "I really AM smarter than DH, it's a good thing he realizes this."

Yes, I said that.

Feel free to smack me.

Early on when we were dating our ability to speak openly to one another was one of the FIRST things that attracted us. Our first date- which turned into 3 straight days of being nearly inseparable- was a process of completely revealing ourselves: deep, dark secrets, struggles, trails, embarrassments; the good, the bad and the ugly.

It was a big reason we got married, the fact that we could share everything with one another without fear or hesitation.

And then somehow, over the next 4 years that quality erroded. That element faded slowly, more and more over time.

Until, about 18 months ago, I was sitting in my favorite chair reading Love Busters by Dr. Harley. I was reading it for a Book Club, more as a mental exercise than to learn anything - or so I thought. And then I came to the chapter on Disrespectful Judgments. There was a questionnaire for one person to answer, to determine whether they felt they were being Disrespectfully Judged. Now as I was reading I'd been reading portions and snippets to Kenichi. So I decided to give him the quiz. At first, when I told him what it was, he refused. I had to cajole him into it. I had to promise not to get mad.

He answered yes to nearly ALL the questions.

I felt like I'd been punched in the gut.
I asked if he avoided telling me things, and he replied "Yes"!

I thought we had this great intimacy, I thought we shared everything. But my attitude, my actions had created an environment where he was afraid to tell me things, afraid of me getting upset. Afraid of me, basically, calling him or acting like he was stupid.

I played a huge role in our lack of intimacy - and I'd been trying to tell myself for years after hearing that talk.

We've been working to reclaim the intimacy we lost and it has been a two pronged effort in our home:
1) Kenichi works to be more willing to share his thoughts/ feelings.
However, this can ONLY happen if:
2) I create an environment in which it is safe for him to express himself.

I've found that because our choices and behavior affects one another, we can get trapped into cycles.

Negative cycle: Kenichi shares something -> I shoot him down/ argue -> Kenichi feels bad-> next time there is something to share he doesn't -> less intimacy -> I have less understanding, or compassion for my husband -> I am less capable of understanding his views so when Kenichi shares something -> I shoot him down/ argue.

VS.

Positive cycle: I implement behaviors that create safety for honesty -> Kenichi shares something ->I listen and respond positively -> Kenichi feels loved and accepted -> Kenichi more willing to share in the future -> More intimacy -> More understanding and compassion -> A safer environment for honesty.

We BOTH have to work at it.

There are several things I've actively worked on to stop my DJs:
1) STOP interrupting.
2) ACTIVELY listen to understand - don't wait and assume I've heard him b/c I want to just make my point. We often agree a lot more than I think we do.
3) Disagree in a positive way - don't seek to undermine, win, make Kenichi feel dumb.
4) Realize that Kenichi is my PARTNER, and not my adversary. Our marriage isn't a contest to be right or smarter.

All of this hinges on Respect for Kenichi.

I interrupt because I feel I know more/ read more and so my husband should defer to my greater knowledge. I'm smarter than Kenichi and so it is my job to educate him. This is so profoundly disrespectful.

Kenichi's thoughts and opinions CANNOT be wrong, that is the nature of opinion.

Kenichi's life experience leads him to conclusions that may be different than mine. His life experience is just as valid as my own.

I have to work to treat him respectfully, and at first it was hard. I had to remind myself that my goal in life isn't to be ‘right' but to understand and love my husband, to slowly become ‘one' with him.

It's been easier, but we have by no means perfected this. However we have seen less stress and tension between us. Sometimes Kenichi will look at me and say "It feels so good to be able to talk to you again".

THAT is worth so much more than being ‘smarter' or ‘right'.

Epilogue
A while after our realization, after we'd been working on improving honesty I told Kenichi about the talk we'd heard and my little rationalizations that "I really WAS better" and "It CAN'T be contempt if you really ARE better" than your spouse. I told him about how occasionally I'd remember that talk and repeat my excuses to myself. I told him I should have listened then! He laughed at me and said "Good job babe" in his little sarcastic way, and I laughed with him.

At least I figured that lesson out eventually....now on to the next.


Moi: 33
DH: Kenichi 33
M: 8/2005
DD 6 yrs
DS 3 yrs
Ze Blog
Re: VIBrations [Re: Vibrissa] #37810
12/19/10 06:19 AM
12/19/10 06:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,451
Ace Online
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Ace  Online
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Originally Posted By: Vibrissa
I have to work to treat him respectfully, and at first it was hard. I had to remind myself that my goal in life isn't to be ‘right' but to understand and love my husband, to slowly become ‘one' with him.

It's been easier, but we have by no means perfected this. However we have seen less stress and tension between us. Sometimes Kenichi will look at me and say "It feels so good to be able to talk to you again".

THAT is worth so much more than being ‘smarter' or ‘right'.

Epilogue
A while after our realization, after we'd been working on improving honesty I told Kenichi about the talk we'd heard and my little rationalizations that "I really WAS better" and "It CAN'T be contempt if you really ARE better" than your spouse. I told him about how occasionally I'd remember that talk and repeat my excuses to myself. I told him I should have listened then! He laughed at me and said "Good job babe" in his little sarcastic way, and I laughed with him.

At least I figured that lesson out eventually....now on to the next.


Wow, girl...what growth! If only my H and I had sought/learned what you are at your age. Good for you.

Might Kenichi ever read, register and post here? It'd be great to have his perspective of this 'growing in intimacy' process, too. Or maybe not.

So what's the next project?

So glad you tip-toed back in. We've done a little expanding and remodeling since you first posted, haven't we! What do you think?

Ace


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: VIBrations [Re: Vibrissa] #37915
12/19/10 08:19 PM
12/19/10 08:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,416
right here waiting Offline
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right here waiting  Offline
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Welcome back, Vibrissa. Glad things are going well for you, and that you're still moving down the path...

Re: VIBrations [Re: right here waiting] #37934
12/19/10 10:11 PM
12/19/10 10:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,611
wiser_now Offline
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WELCOME BACK, Vibrissa!!!!!


A happy marriage is a long conversation which always seems too short. --Andre Maurois

Re: VIBrations [Re: wiser_now] #38067
12/20/10 08:23 AM
12/20/10 08:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 915
K
kilted_thrower Offline
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Awesome posts! It reminded me this weekend that I had to ask my wife to quit interrupting me 11 times in one discussion until I finally told her that when she could quit interrupting me we could finish the conversation. She admitted that she assumed she thought she knew what I was going to say before I said it (which usually was not what I was going to say).

So we're working on this issue ourself.


Some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great. I just am great. --K. Powers

Somebody may beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it. --Prefontaine



Re: VIBrations [Re: kilted_thrower] #38109
12/20/10 01:47 PM
12/20/10 01:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,451
Ace Online
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Ace  Online
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Originally Posted By: kilted_thrower
So we're working on this issue ourself.


Warning....slight TJ:

To KT and anyone else reading this who has a good marriage,

It'd be great if you all y'all* could start thinking of tips like this for the (((MAgnify your MArriage))) forum.
*(Had to acknowledge that Vibs is from Texas...LOL)

Thanks,
Ace

[/TJ]

Last edited by Ace; 12/20/10 02:34 PM. Reason: to add link

We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: VIBrations [Re: kilted_thrower] #38146
12/20/10 03:32 PM
12/20/10 03:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 932
Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Vibrissa Offline OP
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Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Thanks for that Ace heh.

Originally Posted By: kilted_thrower
Awesome posts! It reminded me this weekend that I had to ask my wife to quit interrupting me 11 times in one discussion until I finally told her that when she could quit interrupting me we could finish the conversation. She admitted that she assumed she thought she knew what I was going to say before I said it (which usually was not what I was going to say).

So we're working on this issue ourself.


Oh KT it is SOOO hard. It was so gut wrenching for me to look at myself and realize what my constant interrupting MEANT about how I felt about Kenichi.

The part I bolded, in particular, can be such a trap - and one I've found easier to fall into when our marriage is GOOD! I assume because we get along so well and think alike so much that our thoughts are ALWAYS the same, that I can read his mind.

Kenichi's approach when I would interrupt him was to just stop his side of the conversation. He'd just look at me... and I'd realize he wasn't talking back, and I'd stop talking and he'd keep looking at me, then I'd realize what I'd done. Interrupting kills conversation, so rather than accept my interrupting, he just stopped. He'd let the conversation die - because I'd killed it. I'd think back and realize what I'd done and apologize and then literally bite my tongue while I listened to him finish.

Ace - saw that section of the site. Got some ideas for it!


Moi: 33
DH: Kenichi 33
M: 8/2005
DD 6 yrs
DS 3 yrs
Ze Blog
Re: VIBrations [Re: Vibrissa] #38160
12/20/10 04:04 PM
12/20/10 04:04 PM
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kilted_thrower  Offline
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I kinda like what Kenichi does; I'll have to remember that. This is hard for me to accept this kind of behavior because I don't engage in it. I have a pretty firm grip on AOs and DJs and realize I choose to do these things and so I do not do them. I choose to get upset and yell or be snappy. I choose to interrupt, etc.

Now my last post on my blog, I did engage in DJs. Sadly I knew I was DJing when I was doing them. I can't remember the last time I had an AO though. I spend so much time raising my voice in class and yelling on the coaching field that I do not do this at home.

My wife used to be a huge OAer. But I don't engage people when they get like that. I know it used to frustrate my wife for me to tell her, "I will not be treated like you're treating me. I am not a child. If you're going to talk to me disrespectfully." When she wouldn't listen to that, I'd simply get up and leave. It didn't take long before the AOs stopped.

It's funny how marriage can be soooo stressful yet soooo rewarding at the same time.


Some people are just wired for success. I had no choice when it came to being great. I just am great. --K. Powers

Somebody may beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it. --Prefontaine



Re: VIBrations [Re: kilted_thrower] #38200
12/20/10 05:06 PM
12/20/10 05:06 PM
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Posts: 932
Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Vibrissa Offline OP
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Vibrissa  Offline OP
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Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Quote:
This is hard for me to accept this kind of behavior because I don't engage in it. I have a pretty firm grip on AOs and DJs and realize I choose to do these things and so I do not do them. I choose to get upset and yell or be snappy. I choose to interrupt, etc.


Not to minimize what your wife is doing, because it IS damaging to y'all's marriage, but just because you make an ACTIVE choice does not mean she is. Interrupting becomes a bad habit. At one point I made the choice to begin interrupting, but the motivation wasn't to hurt my husband. Eventually the habit becomes entrenched.

Each time your wife interrupts she is NOT thinking "I want to hurt KT right now" she isn't even thinking "I know this bothers KT but I don't care I'm gonna do it anyways." It is a HABIT and as such, doesn't involve any real thought or pre-meditation on her part.

I say this so that you don't ascribe malice to her behavior or allow yourself to build resentment over it.

Now, in no way is what she is doing ok, not by a long shot, but when our spouse is hurting us we have to do our part to keep from magnifying the hurt, making it worse, or retaliating.

Kenichi understood it was a habit and I wasn't INTENDING to hurt him. He didn't give me a pass, but he didn't get angry at me either. He just pointed out when I did it, let me know it hurt/ frustrated him and we moved on. He was consistent, EVERY time I interrupted he pointed it out, because it was a habit, I honestly wasn't SEEING the behavior. But we approached this as a team effort. It wasn't my problem alone to solve, but OUR problem. So he pointed it out, I realized and apologized, and worked to monitor my words more closely, and thanked him for his patience and help. Over time it has become less and less and our conversation has improved SO much!


Moi: 33
DH: Kenichi 33
M: 8/2005
DD 6 yrs
DS 3 yrs
Ze Blog
Re: VIBrations [Re: Vibrissa] #38665
12/21/10 01:29 PM
12/21/10 01:29 PM
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Ace Online
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Ace  Online
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Originally Posted By: Vibrissa
Ace - saw that section of the site. Got some ideas for it!


Thanks for posting your thoughts there, Vibs.

KT, hope you wander by the Magnify Marriage forum and post your awesome words of wisdom, too. In fact, I just thought of a thread I want to post that will improve my healthy habits and I will need your insights. I think I'll call it "How do I Kill My Emotional Eating Habit?"

I've tweaked the title abit but here's the link to "Mad/Sad -> Grab Food! How to Change Emotional Eating." Please check it out and post any tips you might have for those of us fighting the urge to binge when upset. In the meantime, there are many other excellent tips on the few threads we have so far on that new forum.

Great blog you've got going here, Vibs. Looking forward to reading more.

Ace

Last edited by Ace; 12/21/10 02:03 PM. Reason: to add link to thead this post inspired on the (((MAgnify))) Marriages forum.

We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: VIBrations [Re: Ace] #64970
02/04/11 06:41 AM
02/04/11 06:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
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Texas - that narrows it a bit ...
Vibrissa Offline OP
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Vibrissa  Offline OP
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Ok - I've had a few posts running around in my head, but I really need to sort through some stuff. One of the main reasons I hang around this place is my mother.

My mother had an affair when I was 2 years old, and my brother only 3 months old. By the time my brother was 8 months old she was remarried to her affair partner - my step father. Growing up, I always felt like I was cramping her style. Her new family was my step-father and her new daughters. It was always embarrassing to go to visit after I moved to my dads and have a good friend of hers ask "Who are you?" To have her respond "This is my daughter." and the inevitable reply "I didn't know you had another daughter." When I wasn't in her house it is like I didn't exist.

I stopped living with her at age 12, at around 15 she moved 200 miles away so I didn't have to see her as often and I felt a sense of relief. My relationship improved as I was able to put some distance between us and limit the amount I depended on her and how much I confided and talked to her.

Since that time our relationship has ebbed and flowed, but it always follows the same pattern. I try to have a relationship with her, I reach out to her to involve her in my life and then she turns on me, she tosses me under the bus. The last time it happened was because I made the mistake of trying to live with her again. It lasted about a month before she threw me out of her house, refused to go to my wedding, and had my step-father write a VERY nasty letter to my future in-laws detailing what a horrible person I was and why their son shouldn't marry me (my in-laws, bless them, threw the letter away after reading the first sentence, recognizing it for the garbage it was). We didn't speak for over a year. Until her suicide attempt, where I again reached out to her.

Things have been ok, but again I keep reaching out to her, involving her and my sisters more and more in my life. For some reason, I am always hurt by these relationships. Now that my sisters are older, having a relationship with them is painful as well. The whole family is... twisted. When my FIL found out who my family was, initially he was very wary of me. Until he got to know me and realized I was nothing like them. He told me this a couple years back.

After reading and watching affairs on here and other places I've come to see my mother's marriage for what it is: the product of an affair. The mind twisting the affair required has never been fixed. They exist in in every day and it permeates much of what they do. They loudly proclaim values they undermine with every chance they get. They judge and tear down, while presenting a good front. They'll preach about loyalty while their knives find their way to your back.

They're toxic and they hurt me and yet I constantly seek to involve them in my life. I allow my sense of obligation to push me into a relationship.

The problem is that now, the negativity is coming into my own family. It affects me, and thus it affects my husband and my daughter.

But she's my mother, and they are my sisters. There has to be some way I can allow them into my life without allowing them to negatively impact my life.

And then there is the issue of confrontation. I've implied that I know about my mother's affair, but I've never told her I know. She has never apologized to me for it. It is the elephant in the room that I try to ignore. I don't want to talk about it with her, because I don't want to hear her justifications, I don't care to see her cry and protest and heap guilt upon herself - turn it into being all about her. But sometimes I look at her and think "You destroyed my childhood for that pig of a man who doesn't even treat his daughters right. Who ignores and neglects and has mentally checked out of your lives. You destroyed my childhood for THIS."

It's gotten harder this last year, after lil'bit was born. Now I KNOW what a mother's love feels like. I KNOW what it is to hold your precious daughter, and feel that love. And she threw it away, for herself - her selfish selfish self. She turned my childhood into hell, loving me she did it, unless of course she doesn't love me - I've never really been sure. She loves my DD thats for sure.

So how do I have a relationship with this woman? And keep it from dragging me down? Keep it from affecting my marriage and my child? What are the appropriate boundaries?

She's already started pressing for overnights with lil'bit. I will NEVER allow my daughter to sleep at her house. EVER. Already I can see the seeds of our next big blow out coming. I can sense the ugliness brewing. Because I was stupid enough to invite her back into my life and try to treat her like the mother I wish she was.

And then there is my sisters, who I do care about - but who don't know the truth. They don't know what their parents did, they can't understand my reluctance to involve myself with that family. The last time this all came to a head, the told me vicious things, they said horrible things about my father and it was so hard to not tell them the truth. To not tell them that the reason I don't trust them is because my mother has lied to them, because she destroyed my childhood stability.

My husband met my mother way before he met my father. He'd heard her talk about him. He was prepared to meet a monster - until he met my father and realized all the trash my mother spewed was lies. Justifications for her future actions. Lies that my sisters believe. Lies that prejudice them against me - as they cannot understand why I would love and prefer such a ‘horrible' person (I cannot imagine a better father than the one I was blessed to have, any sense of balance or normalcy I have I attribute to his influence).

I know this isn't strictly marriage related, but, maybe some of you have some ideas - some advice, anything.


Moi: 33
DH: Kenichi 33
M: 8/2005
DD 6 yrs
DS 3 yrs
Ze Blog
Re: VIBrations [Re: Vibrissa] #65059
02/04/11 01:56 PM
02/04/11 01:56 PM
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Ace Online
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Ace  Online
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Originally Posted By: Vibrissa
Ok - I've had a few posts running around in my head, but I really need to sort through some stuff. One of the main reasons I hang around this place is my mother.

...

I know this isn't strictly marriage related, but, maybe some of you have some ideas - some advice, anything.


Hi Vibs,

First things first:


hug hug hug{{{{{{{Vibrissa & Family}}}}}}} hug hug hug

So glad you're here for YOU and for those you help.

I'm slammed at work and dealing with family challenges so I have little time to post but saw you were blogging again and wanted to let you know how much I (and I'm sure others) appreciate you.

I only disagree with your statement that your post is NOT marriage related....of course it is. We are the sum of our environment and experiences, both of which we bring to our marriages.

More later.

Ace



We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

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