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Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442994
06/03/19 03:05 AM
06/03/19 03:05 AM
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SmilingWife Offline
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Wow cat. Just wow. I am always the maddest at myself when I do something I didn’t want to do.

I think the good news is you see the patterns and you are learning about yourself. Have you ever tried to get him to go for counseling? Or ever given him an ultimatum?

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443004
06/03/19 12:00 PM
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TC_Manhattan Offline
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Originally Posted by catperson
But who wants to stay angry to get parity?


Here’s another way to think of it..

Anger is what you, Cat, need to rev up the energy to stand your ground and defend your sovereignty, your own personal boundaries, from his constant impositions (read: attacks).

Anger in your case is empowerment.
It is the opposite of wallowing in guilt and depression.

I think you need way more of that to get yourself moving in a positive direction.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: TC_Manhattan] #443005
06/03/19 12:10 PM
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“The Energy of Boundaries: Anger

Amazingly almost all of us have seen cats practicing Boundary skills. Most cats have great Boundary skills. You will never see two cats sleeping together where one is being boss. Watch them. They have warriors. Watching cats is a fascinating way to learn. (It might be worth explicitly noting that all my images about Boundaries are military and about war. This is intentional.) The energy behind good boundaries and all Boundary skills is ANGER. If you have been taught to suppress your anger, you have also been taught to have no boundaries.”

From Al Turtle: Boundaries For Individuals - The Essay

Boundaries For Individuals

Last edited by TC_Manhattan; 06/03/19 12:23 PM. Reason: Fixed link
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: SmilingWife] #443006
06/03/19 01:13 PM
06/03/19 01:13 PM
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catperson Offline OP
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Originally Posted by SmilingWife
Wow cat. Just wow. I am always the maddest at myself when I do something I didn’t want to do.

I think the good news is you see the patterns and you are learning about yourself. Have you ever tried to get him to go for counseling? Or ever given him an ultimatum?
The one time I was ready to pack my stuff and leave, he agreed immediately to MC. He went a few times, refused to do the homework (she asked him to come up with 3 positive things to say - about ANYTHING - each day. He tried the first day and just said he couldn't think of anything. I gave up. Then he just started making excuses for not attending. I went and was mad at MC and she just said 'cat, this was never about him; you trying to fix him; it was always about you.' So that's why I've been trying to fix myself.

Thanks for the link; that's helpful. I also just got The New Codependency in the mail and will start reading it as soon as I finish the series I'm reading.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: TC_Manhattan] #443007
06/03/19 01:14 PM
06/03/19 01:14 PM
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catperson Offline OP
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Originally Posted by TC_Manhattan
Originally Posted by catperson
But who wants to stay angry to get parity?


Here’s another way to think of it..

Anger is what you, Cat, need to rev up the energy to stand your ground and defend your sovereignty, your own personal boundaries, from his constant impositions (read: attacks).

Anger in your case is empowerment.
It is the opposite of wallowing in guilt and depression.

I think you need way more of that to get yourself moving in a positive direction.

You're right. Anger is actually just me valuing myself. I just want to find a better way to manage it.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443008
06/03/19 01:17 PM
06/03/19 01:17 PM
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catperson Offline OP
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I will add that, a year ago, when he called me if I was out like that, I would have dropped whatever I was doing and run home to help him. So I'm holding some boundaries now.

I also know that, a few years ago, he wouldn't have even asked me - he would have just told me to get dressed, we're leaving. So I was able to make that stand - that I'm not his servant, he can't just tell me to do something, maybe I don't WANT to do what he's doing. So for the past few years, he's humbled himself to ask me every time he wants me to go do band stuff, or help him with a job. I can tell he hates it, after 35 years of me doing whatever he wants, but he knows I'll say no now if he just tells me.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443021
06/04/19 01:28 AM
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It's good that you have more of a boundary now than you did five years ago. Now, to channel your anger into more solid boundaries. Practice in the mirror every day when you are alone.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443022
06/04/19 02:22 AM
06/04/19 02:22 AM
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catperson Offline OP
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So I didn't go to help him today when he unloaded his truck and carried all his equipment upstairs. I sat outside and read, worked on dinner, took a shower, watered the flowers. It was hard, but I feel better for having chosen not to help, for once. He even cleaned up the kitchen after dinner and put food away while I paid bills.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443237
06/15/19 02:39 PM
06/15/19 02:39 PM
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catperson Offline OP
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I think I've hit a turning point. I feel a huge weight lifted; let's see if it's permanent. I was in therapy, talking as usual about standing up to DH and getting the "what's the worst that can happen" that I get from her every single time, lol. And as I was preparing to leave, I mentioned that he's afraid of me leaving, and she seemed shocked. She stopped what she was doing and said 'What? He's afraid you'll leave him?" I said yes, he always has been. She just said "Cat, you have all the power. You always have had all the power!'

And ever since then, when I look at him, I just feel like being honest. We've had a discussion about money, one about his negativity; he got fired from the band he did sound for, and I pointed out it's because nobody wants to work with him, he makes everyone feel miserable (he does; he's always griping at them, I watch him work with them and I watch them biting their tongue all the time). I stood up to him when he said again that he brought in $130,000 last year and told him that I had checked, and he'd only deposited $63,000, so I didn't know where the rest of the money went. I brought up the huge water leak we have, cos he hasn't said anything about fixing it), when I normally would have been afraid of him getting angry (he sees such things as me pointing out his failings), but I did it, he got angry, and I stood up to him and survived, lol. I put his laundry on the couch and it just sits there until he does something with it; he finally folded it and it sits on the coffee table now, lol. He'll figure it out.

I'm not even that opposed to sex because I feel more in control. So all in all, I think I'm finally taking the next step.

Just sayin' I know this is exactly what you guys have been telling me for YEARS - I know. I guess it just took seeing the shock on her face to make it really sink in. It was like "Cat, duh!"

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443244
06/15/19 03:19 PM
06/15/19 03:19 PM
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Good for you Cat! So happy for you! Keep being in control. You being the genuine person you are with control can only mean good things ahead for you because you are not one who would abuse that control. So awesome!

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443245
06/15/19 06:04 PM
06/15/19 06:04 PM
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You aren’t ready until you’re ready. Now would be a good time to go back and re read a chunk of your thread. You’ll see things with fresh eyes, and some of the advice you’ve gotten in the past will be helpful in different ways now.


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443248
06/15/19 07:11 PM
06/15/19 07:11 PM
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Orchid2 Online
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Cat,

The things and events that make us change are amazing and most times quite inconsequential, right? The fact is you recognized a turning point that had been there for a long time but it also took time to acknowledge.

That's why what we are dealing with is so difficult. Still certain turning points will now come easier because you have opened the door to that possibility. Don't let it rush in but better to let it sink in and get firmly rooted in a positive way.

I learned when I stopped trying to help WSt improve and instead let him learn on his own that it was much better for me. When I stopped making our meals only around what he liked to eat (he doesn't like seafood, eggplant and a few other things), our lives (son and I) became more refreshing . I had to learn not to feel guilty going out to eat without him and not getting him food to go. He didn't want to be courteous and let us know his schedule, I wasn't going to stop what we were doing to accommodate him.

It was hard, it went against my very nature of being a nurturing person but as a WS he fought being nurtured in a family way so I had to recognize it. Then the true selfish side of him with the facade of being a caring person became more evident. Like my father and some of his siblings/parents, WSt had multiple personalities. One he showed in public, one he showed to his friends, one he showed to his relatives and one he showed to us (his family). So other folks were confused. Most couldn't believe how a nice guy can be so abusive in subtle manipulative and greedy ways. Most refused to believe it and that in turn bred the bad behavior. Slow learners figure it out eventually but by then a lot of damage is usually done to the ones most abused, usually the family.

That is what happened in our case. Learning not to care about those in denial, slow learners or stubbornly stupid folks, was actually better for me. While I like to do things to help folks, I no longer allow myself to help recognized manipulators and if you pay attention you can recognize manipulators in general. They do leave a trail of tell tale signs that can be recognized.

So going forward, I recognize persons with ill intent and in turn those kinds of folks recognize those who see them for what they are. In many cases, they actually treat me with more respect because when they don't, I'm not afraid to stand up to them.

I had one case where a client threatened to quit my services. I told him that was a good idea because I had said at the start that eventually all my clients will need to quit when they get organized enough to not need my services. Talk about undoing his true intention (to cave to his demands - accepting his ranting and raging episodes). That shut him up. Remember, I can't change his personality completely (even his mom told me he was an angry man and difficult to get along with) but with me he starts to rant, I give him the friendly reminder (don't argue but stand firm) and he has been backing down enough to where we can still get work done. He is borderline to be let go but for now he has learned not to push my button to the point of no return. Not yet anyway. wink

So it isn't just how we deal with our spouses, it is how we deal with those we have to deal with in life.

Glad to see you progress.

Your progress is important, to you and good for you. smile

Keep up the good work. highfive

Orchid


Orchid
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443252
06/15/19 09:49 PM
06/15/19 09:49 PM
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Blair Offline
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Good for you, Cat!!! light

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Oblivious2678] #443253
06/15/19 09:59 PM
06/15/19 09:59 PM
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catperson Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Oblivious2678
Good for you Cat! So happy for you! Keep being in control. You being the genuine person you are with control can only mean good things ahead for you because you are not one who would abuse that control. So awesome!
Thanks, Obl. It's like everything he does, I have a 'lens' on now that I see him through. He just mowed the lawn and came in and said 'you shouldn't have let me mow without putting mosquito spray on! I'm covered in bites!' and I just said 'well, better get some benadryl and take a nap' instead of feeling sorry for him or taking responsibility. Nice feeling.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Miranda] #443254
06/15/19 10:00 PM
06/15/19 10:00 PM
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catperson Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Miranda
You aren’t ready until you’re ready. Now would be a good time to go back and re read a chunk of your thread. You’ll see things with fresh eyes, and some of the advice you’ve gotten in the past will be helpful in different ways now.

Good idea. I think I'm going to read the book I got in first, The New Codependency (after I finish the series I'm reading, 1 1/2 books to go). But now that I'm taking an hour out each day to go sit in the back porch and read, that won't take long! I know you all told me to do things for myself, but this one thing I've been doing, sitting every afternoon, no matter what he's doing, has really made a difference; I just didn't realize how much of a difference it would make, doing something for me.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443255
06/15/19 10:05 PM
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Orchid, we had the same thing - totally different person around us. And for 20 years, I scheduled meals around him, never went out without him, but I'm pulling way back. Half the days I don't even offer or bother to cook. We have plenty of leftovers if he's hungry. He has started cooking more (especially on the days he wants sex, lol). My next step will be the boundary thing - be rude to me and I leave, no matter what emergency you're in.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Blair] #443256
06/15/19 10:06 PM
06/15/19 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Blair
Good for you, Cat!!! light

Thanks Blair!
Feeling hopeful. I took some more pictures of things to sell today, gonna work on my budget, and go sit out by the pool and read.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443408
06/30/19 02:28 AM
06/30/19 02:28 AM
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Well, I'm officially a grandma! DD28 was due July 4 but she was feeling really off yesterday at work (we work at the same place). Sure enough, she woke up at 1am in contractions and called me. This lucky lady not only got to use an epidural (I didn't), but she had her daughter at 7:18 in the morning. Six hours. She pushed (I was there helping her along with her husband) maybe 8 times total and by the time the doctor walked in the room, out plopped the baby! #CharmedLife

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443410
06/30/19 02:39 AM
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Congratulations!!!!

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443415
06/30/19 03:57 PM
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Congratulations Cat and family I’m so happy for you!


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443417
06/30/19 08:04 PM
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Congrats !! And born on my birthday smile

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443419
06/30/19 09:28 PM
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Thanks guys! Getting ready to leave the hospital. They check out tomorrow morning.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443421
06/30/19 10:06 PM
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Orchid2 Online
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“Ho‘omaika‘i ‘ana iā ‘oe Tutu Cat! / “Ho‘omaika‘i ‘ana iā ‘oe Kapunawahine Cat! - Translate Congratulations Grandma Cat. thumbsup

All the best to the new mom and dad. May their journey begin on helping this new life get off on the right foot.

Aloha,
Orchid


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Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443422
07/01/19 02:24 AM
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Thank you!

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #443435
07/02/19 11:34 PM
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Congratulations!!!

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