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Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442659
05/14/19 03:19 PM
05/14/19 03:19 PM
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catperson Offline OP
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Thanks, everyone. I will get that book.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442660
05/14/19 03:33 PM
05/14/19 03:33 PM
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Maybe ask him this simple question

Would you rather be with me in a simple apartment and a simple job or would you rather be alone in this big house chasing enough money to pay your American Express bill.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442664
05/14/19 04:57 PM
05/14/19 04:57 PM
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Cat congratulations on the new grand baby on the way! And how awesome with the 4 10s to have a day with the grand baby too smile


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442667
05/14/19 06:14 PM
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CP,

I think your H is a liability, like mine is. He once said that as long as I support him (aka: pay the bills, take care of the home and family), he could be a WS 'forever'. That was when he was a raging WS and he said it as he was running out of WS spew.

It was a truthful statement and it hit me between the eyes. From that point forward, I changed. I watched his actions and decisions that matched his statement. Shockingly sad and shocking again. Now I had to get over that shock because he ways were also sending us to the breaking point, emotionally, physically, financially and spiritually. I had to recognize it and I did.

I let him know I knew his statement was the truth. I acknowledged it with great pain in my heart but I soldiered on. When the day came to walk away and make the split evident (we separated), I began to regain myself. Still learning to do so but this time his effect is father away and I disconnect much easier.

I do take his calls and we talk on limited subjects. There is no need for total NC but I must stay disciplined in this regard.

WSt took us into bankruptcy. We came out of it. He said he can't get a credit card but I have managed to get a CC (since we separated) to improve my credit score. Amazing how less income gives me more money.

Yes, I can budget better because I no longer have to pay for his bills. He was using my bank account as his personal bank by always being angry at me.

In fact, it was observing those types of WS like attitudes that showed me how some folks like to use intimidation to get what they want (aka: bullying) while the 'bully' proclaimed he was a victim. Imagine that.

Now it is much easier to spot such a character. It helped me identify when my farther turned into an emotional WS with great manipulation and victim playing skills. Also, it helped me identify when others were walking down that same path.

You are almost at that same learning point but may be afraid or ashamed to admit it. It isn't easy to admit that the very person who should care for us the most, is in reality our own worst enemy and he/she doesn't planning on changing.

In fact when I see folks turn nice for a day (holiday, birthday, special event or just because their want something), it turns my stomach. I find it so hypocritical.

So even when watching the news and seeing folks toy and bully others by their words and actions, then see still other folks support it with the most ridiculous of reasons, it makes me sick. Yet it is what we see every day in the news and around us. The question is, do we have to live with abuse in our own homes?

jmo,
Orchid

Last edited by Orchid2; 05/14/19 10:49 PM.

Orchid
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442670
05/14/19 06:37 PM
05/14/19 06:37 PM
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I need to do more reading; it helps boost me up to be stronger. But I've been so depressed I've been reading fiction nonstop for the escapism. I did get him to fix the dvr, and I found my yoga bootcamp DVRs so I'm going to start focusing more on my must needs instead of other stuff. Also have gotten back on the selling bandwagon; placed ads for two items this week but no bites. I guess I just had to hit a new low to be willing to change my actions. And get past this damn fear.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442676
05/14/19 10:07 PM
05/14/19 10:07 PM
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One step at a time, Cat. Old habits and fears take time to change. Be sure to celibrate your progress as you go along.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442694
05/15/19 02:44 PM
05/15/19 02:44 PM
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midwest
Miranda Online
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Cat

I did the same thing, where I had to stop reading the self help and turn to fiction. Because I needed the RELAXATION. I desperately needed “down time”. Everyone needs and deserves it. But then you get to the point where you’ve sort of wallowed down in there and lost your forward motion. It’s a hard balance to strike. Don’t rip yourself up about it. Just start again where you are and realize that you needed a break to recharge your batteries, ok?

You’re going to get this thing. I believe in you. I’m proud of how far you’ve come already. Just do the next right thing, one little thing. Sometimes that’s just doing your best and not judging yourself harshly if you fall short. That’s a victory too!

Hugs to you

M


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442695
05/15/19 03:01 PM
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catperson Offline OP
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Thanks, Miranda. I did tell DH last night that I wanted him to pick out TWO things I could sell; he just grunted ok. This morning, he angrily stops me before I leave and says "So what the hell am I supposed to pick out to sell?" I said I don't care what, just anything. I said we have about 50,000 items in this house, and we only use a fifth of it (being generous), so we need to sell some of the rest to get out of debt. Then he tries to tell me he earned $130K last year and we're still in debt. I said, yes, we are, and we have to change things. I'm asking for things to sell because I'm following the Dave Ramsey road to eliminating debt, remember, we took the course 10 years ago; he growled 'I know what it is' so I said then you understand we have to change what we're doing.

And of course then he launches into his pity party of never having time off, working all hours of the night, and of course then launches into 'how far have you gotten into the real estate course' to switch this all back on me. So I just left.

And I checked the bank records when I got to work; he deposited half of what he says he earned. I will let him know.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442696
05/15/19 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by catperson
Thanks, Miranda. I did tell DH last night that I wanted him to pick out TWO things I could sell; he just grunted ok. This morning, he angrily stops me before I leave and says "So what the hell am I supposed to pick out to sell?" I said I don't care what, just anything. I said we have about 50,000 items in this house, and we only use a fifth of it (being generous), so we need to sell some of the rest to get out of debt. Then he tries to tell me he earned $130K last year and we're still in debt. I said, yes, we are, and we have to change things. I'm asking for things to sell because I'm following the Dave Ramsey road to eliminating debt, remember, we took the course 10 years ago; he growled 'I know what it is' so I said then you understand we have to change what we're doing.

And of course then he launches into his pity party of never having time off, working all hours of the night, and of course then launches into 'how far have you gotten into the real estate course' to switch this all back on me. So I just left.

And I checked the bank records when I got to work; he deposited half of what he says he earned. I will let him know.


You are taking a real estate course? That is cool. Interestingly enough I was just reading about this big lawsuit....it might interest you. https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/15/economy/real-estate-commissions/index.html Did you ever know I had my RE license? Never really used it. I love the business of house hunting and all of that though.

When you say you checked the bank records...you mean you looked at the entire last year and saw that he deposited half of the 130K? That is interesting. What is he doing with the rest of the money.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442697
05/15/19 03:46 PM
05/15/19 03:46 PM
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catperson Offline OP
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I think he doesn't really know what he earned. The way he handles money is so sloppy. Cashes a check sometimes, pays cash for products, etc. I don't even want to get into the mechanics of how he's not running his business the right way.

One of the people he's partnered with to build homes paid for me to take the course and for every house he sells, we'll get 3% commission. So the faster I get this done the faster we can earn money. But I've been so depressed I can barely make myself work on it. And there's IC telling me to take time for myself but I know every hour I take for myself is one less hour I could be working on real estate - so more guilt buildup.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442699
05/15/19 04:16 PM
05/15/19 04:16 PM
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midwest
Miranda Online
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Cat

You cannot do EVERYTHING to get you guys out of this mess. You have to know that. There are limits to how much you can do. And your therapist is absolutely correct, taking time for you, working on you HAS to be a priority. Even if it feels like it’s not “productive” in fixing the debt problem. It’s fixing a bigger problem. Trust me.

Hang in there.

M


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Miranda] #442703
05/15/19 06:21 PM
05/15/19 06:21 PM
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My WSt cut a bigger hole in our finances causing the leak of money to flow out faster than it came in, then he blamed me for it. When he couldn't blame me for anything extravagant, except Starbucks and doing nice things for some folks, he would get angry.

WS also claimed he made 2x as much as myself. Come tax filing time, the proof was undeniable that he made 1/3 of what I made in some years. He didn't like reality when it bit him. He would deflate back to reality but within 2 - 3 months he was fluffed up again and forget what got him into trouble the prior year. That vicious cycle lead him to become a Ws and then some. Sigh....... I look back and can see why I was always so exhausted. I was that gerbil on the wheel......

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/y6OUAm3Ci2w[/video]


Once we separated, he now has only himself to blame. Such a weight off my shoulders and I've got small shoulders (also under tall). wink

CP, your H isn't going to change because he knows he has you as his backup. Play that thought around for a while in your head. It may make you angry, frustrated and upset. Then you can go and find a way to manage your situation with less emotion, less commotion and more productivity.

The Ramsey way puts folks on a financial diet of sorts. I've heard of many stories how folks turned their lives around. I hope it helps you as well.

Take care,
Orchid

Last edited by Orchid2; 05/15/19 06:30 PM. Reason: Added the gerbil

Orchid
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Orchid2] #442704
05/15/19 06:45 PM
05/15/19 06:45 PM
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Monterey, CA
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Apologies for the t/j, but that hamster video is so hilarious! grin

Since the update, the UBB embeds are not working for videos or for images. frown

The way to embed a YouTube video is to open the drop-down list under Post Options and select "HTML and UBBCode". Then at the YouTube video, select "Share" | Embed then copy the gobbldegoo and paste it in the editing window here.

To wit ...



"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442705
05/15/19 07:49 PM
05/15/19 07:49 PM
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catperson Offline OP
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I feel a little better. I put a bunch of things online for sale. A while back when I complained about the money situation, his response was 'well, I'm wearing my shirts and pants 2 or 3 times in a row without washing!' And 'I ONLY buy the $3 meals at Jack in the Box' and so on. Like, that's not even a bandaid on what's wrong, you know?

One of the jobs I've been helping him with is at the car repair shop that has fixed our BMWs for 20+ years. I asked the owner last time I was there how much it would cost to get our LAST dead car up and running. The one I keep asking DH to get running; it's been sitting dead in our driveway for 4 years. It was far less than I thought. Of course I don't have the money for it, but if I can get the money and get it fixed, we could sell it for a good $8k. But I'm proud of myself for taking the initiative on something that's been DH's prerogative (cars) for 40 years.

Hopefully something will come out of this talk from this morning. I'm trying really hard to face my fears and just say what I feel (don't like my IC bugging me every visit, lol).

I think I might just offer to move upstairs if he doesn't want to address it all, as a response if he ramps up the pressure. Or just move out altogether. I have several people who will let me stay with them.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Fiddler] #442706
05/15/19 07:50 PM
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Thanks Fiddler for fixing that post. Plus I started googling for gerbils and got hamsters. Close right? LOL!!!

Either way, I didn't get to see that hamster relaxing. I feel more like those working that wheel and not getting in shape. eek

It's back to work for me....... where is that back to work emoji?


Orchid
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Orchid2] #442707
05/15/19 08:08 PM
05/15/19 08:08 PM
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How's this...


"Grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me."
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: Fiddler] #442708
05/15/19 11:15 PM
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I think it matches WUD more. smile

CP, sorry for the thread HJ.

Take care,
Orchid


Orchid
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442711
05/15/19 11:57 PM
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Cat - your H needs to make a brown hag lunch and take it with him. Then he could spend $1.50 - $2.00 on a large lunch and have a mid-afternoon snack. Then you bank what is saved.

Odds are he is not only eating $3 of stuff at a fast food restaurant. Plus a brown bag lunch would be healthier. (Maybe he would be less crabby and unkind too.)

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442714
05/16/19 02:26 AM
05/16/19 02:26 AM
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catperson Offline OP
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He will never make his own lunch.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442716
05/16/19 03:07 AM
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Blair Online
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Then he's not willing to look at this seriously. Ramsey recommends brown-bagging it and I think one cheat day every 1-2 weeks if I remember right.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442717
05/16/19 11:18 AM
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Cat, there are lots of suggestions here. For the most part, they are mere bandaids on a leaking dam.

I don't believe that one can inch their way to a solution that would require major life reorganization.
Don't fool yourself into thinking that baby steps are progress when what is needed is a wholesale change
in your life script/s.

I think the both of you are firmly entrenched into the habit of using each other as an excuse. That IS codependency squared.

Focusing on what HE needs to do or what he ISN'T doing does nothing to address YOUR personal issues.

Stop focusing on DH. And that starts with no longer allowing DH to use you as his excuse for his lack of progress/success,
just as you cleverly come back to using DH as your excuse for staying stuck in your despair.

Seriously, until you mentally disconnect your issues from his and vice versa, this crazy spiraling dance will go on forever
until one of you hits a major trauma or dies.

I am dead serious about this.
This is tough love. You are way beyond the point of baby steps or negotiating what the OTHER guy needs to fix.

Look in the mirror. There lies your biggest reason for being so stuck for so long.

My thoughts..

Last edited by TC_Manhattan; 05/16/19 11:26 AM. Reason: typos
Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442727
05/17/19 12:14 AM
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catperson Offline OP
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So, normally, I work 40-60 hours a week at my job, 1/3 of it at home. I'm taking tomorrow off cos I have a doctor appointment and a car appointment. I always have to put out our Friday newsletter so even if I take Friday off, I still have to log in on Friday, my day off, to push out the newsletter. So today I completed the newsletter early, with a lot fewer items than I normally carry (this is all based off of stuff my people send me throughout the week). It's really short. I'm doing this because I'm on vacation tomorrow and I've spent 2 years here never really taking a Friday off because of the newsletter. Of course, my self-guilt and -doubt is driving me crazy. It's ok, right? To do a short newsletter and fill it in next week?

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442742
05/17/19 01:54 AM
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Cat, why do you have to ask??

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442743
05/17/19 02:23 AM
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You're off tomorrow. You shouldn't have to log in on your day off and do extra work.

Re: I'm learning to talk [Re: catperson] #442745
05/17/19 02:31 AM
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CP,

While you shouldn't have to ask, the answer is yes, it is ok to have a shorter newsletter. You met the requirements (unless quantity is a requirement).

Your day off isn't even for fun, Dr visit and car repair appointment doesn't a fun day off make.

Your health and car will thank you later.

Just make your appointments and come home safely. wink

Take care,
Orchid


Orchid
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