My story has played out in the closed access part of this board, but in this post I'll lay out what my situation was before D-Day and how it's played out in the 5 months so far. Hopefully this story, and the ongoing status reports and analysis, will help those whose spouse is engaged in multiple affairs, in particular when R has a low probability of success, according to common wisdom.

As for the marriage before D-Day, I'll freely admit I have been heavily addicted to online gaming since the middle 90s and it has been a problem for my marriage. That means spending a LOT of time in front of a computer either at the kitchen table or in the basement, from the moment I returned home from work til bedtime if nothing else was happening. This of course allowed WW to have considerable time and freedom while I was at home gaming or dealing with carting around DS13 and DS16 to their various sports and events (which I bore the brunt of since she was often late home from work.) There’s never a reason that justifies the decision to betray your marriage, but I will own up to 50% of the problems with Marriage 1.0 that led to her horrible decision making.

WW tended to be disrespectful and badgering, barking at me and the kids from the moment she walked in the door, trying to enforce a level of Domestic Support that we were unwilling to support while being aloof and unaffectionate. Sex was phoned in on Saturday nights to keep the complaining to a minimum but lacked any intimacy at all. I turned away and stonewalled, and we drifted further apart as the kids grew older. Over the past couple of years it became obvious something was up with staying up late texting, hiding in the bedroom or downstairs, and hiding the phone/tablet when I walked into the room.

In July 2017 I discovered through access to her email (and her eventual confessions) that WW had indulged in four ONS as well as three longer As with local APs, stretching back almost 20 years, in a marriage of 27 years and a relationship spanning 35 years, since we were 17 and in High School.

I'm not going to get into the details, but the longer affairs generally followed classic "Not Just A Friend" situation for the most part. WW had a lot of issues with abandonment in her OF so a combination of stress and neglect enabled her confiding in the APs, growing closer, and eventually crossing into a EA then PA. The APs were generally having problems in their own marriages, often with wives with-holding sex, which seems to be a recurring theme – bonding on mutual commiseration and meeting important ENs. The main rationale was neglect, and it made the trail of small decisions leading to rationalizing the betrayals easier. The same feelings appears to have made WW willing to engage in ONS while travelling, which she did often for her job.

Upon revealing I knew about the affairs and being told to either stop the As or pack her bags, WW completely ditched the APs and readily agreed to any conditions that I cared to set. She went NC with all APs either initially or when a week or two later she recounted the full extent of her betrayals. She agreed to both IC and MC. And she expressed contrition, committing herself to trying to regain my trust, and keep our family together. I agreed to allow her to stay to attempt to recover the marriage. In return I went cold turkey on gaming, and committed to meeting her ENs.

Our first marriage was completely destroyed by serial adultery. This blog is the story of Marriage 2.0.

Mg

Edited due to disappearing text

I edited your post above so it would appear.

TY!!

Mg

I went for limited disclosure. I went after the BSs of the two APs I knew about, but the BS I *thought* would be rational and methodical, holding off on her own confrontation with he WS, turned out to be irrational and impulsive so everything blew up quickly. So I had to confront my WW immediately. The good news is that she capitulated and agreed to NC immediately. However, I should have gone further with disclosure for the APs that she admitted to after our initial D-Day. I in fact never did any disclosure for three local APs I learned about after the facts, settling for NC only.

Some of you might be shouting right about now "Why not? How can you end the affair without disclosure? What about the BS and her need to know the truth?"

When I disclosed to localguy1's wife, a family died. Not violently in the conventional sense of the term but with a lot of emotional violence, intense hatred, and disclosures to the kids that will probably be with them for the rest of their lives. When I called BS I cautioned her not to do anything rash. Rather the opposite occurred, max drama all around.

And there's the problem. Calling the other BS's probably would have an identical result since by all indications they would react similarly. A couple more sets of damaged kids. And with all evidence pointing to the As essentially over even before D-Day, it starts to look more like revenge than disclosure simply to end the A. And I inflict on her what I'm experiencing now as far as the emotional fallout.

Just couldn't do it, despite knowing full well it was the best thing to do. Just couldn't do it. I'm willing to assume the risk. And I *don't* recommend anyone do the same, you can't expect to get as lucky as I did with WW just caving immediately and falling in line.

Perhaps one day I'll discover that I was lulled into rugsweeping by my WW, but at this point I am pretty certain that the timing of discovery was just such that the A chemicals were virtually depleted and the level of shame and fear in WW was max which resulted in the immediate positive results I saw.

But I just couldn't do it.

Mg

Mg, I'm in the "couldnt do it" camp. My adult kids still don't know. It would have damaged them.

We are making it work.

I guess conventional wisdom says that serial cheaters are lost causes. Either some underlying pathology is involved or they are addicted to the affair process, enjoying tastes of forbidden fruit while able to eat cake at home. I found an online article from a serial cheater that seems to typify the type:

https://thoughtcatalog.com/anonymous/201...-relationships/

At the end of the day this person is being utterly reprehensible. "I never believed in monogamy, because I don't think that humans are built for it in any meaningful way" would probably be a surprise to her boyfriend she intends to marry. Perhaps it takes a D-day for someone like this to see the toll that infidelity takes on the betrayed spouse to smarten up and realize how callous and evil such an attitude is. If not, one suspects that the person is indeed a sociopath.

I don't believe, however, that every serial cheater is in this category. I have to believe someone who has totally dysfunctional boundaries and a long term problem in their marriage can fall into affairs repeatedly without it being an addiction. And I have to believe that the situation is fixable if the person is willing to make substantial changes. I have to believe this since I'm staying married to a serial cheater I guess!

Dr. Harley, on whose MarriageBuilders books I've based our recovery plan with MrsMg, made a point on his radio show that in dealing with multiple affairs, that the conditions that enabled the affairs need to be eliminated before you can be sure that a multiple WS just doesn't go back to their old ways when the opportunity presents itself. Drastic lifestyle changes need to be made.

So lets analyze what the enablers were in my marriage:

1. Lack of attention to ENs of Recreational Companionship, Conversation, Affection, Physical Attractiveness and Admiration, all of which are readily fulfilled by APs
2. Lack of attention to Domestic Support EN which offered another grievance to push her over the line
3. Freedom to pursue a SSL with lots of time to spend away from home with APs
4. Freedom to engage in As while travelling alone
5. Overzealous respect for her privacy allowed WW to conduct As through email and texts relatively openly

Clearly, the response needs to be:

1. Focus on meeting ENs that are important, and in the order of importance. Harley's Emotional Needs Questionnaire is a very useful tool that both spouses complete. The answers can be surprising.
2. As in 1.
3. We need to be one integrated unit instead of two individuals who simply co-habit and co-parent. Straight to work and straight home if possible. Shop together. SLEEP TOGETHER ALWAYS. Harley says a massive amount of As can be avoided with even that simple rule.
4. No more solo travel. If there's a conference one spouse wants to go to then the other spouse goes along or you don't go. Again, sleep together always.
5. No secrets. Open access to phones, email, bank accounts, everything. While I can't say I'm a fan of Harley's the Policy of Radical Honesty questionnaire the Policy is a sound one, along with the Policy of Joint Agreement which obviously means everything is open and out on the table.

So the focus of my recovery plan is basically concentrate on our ENs, live a completely integrated lifestyle (a massive change) ALWAYS sleep together, and no secrets.

MrsMg is on board for the ride and doing well. She has been devastated at the depths of pain she's watched me go through and is striving to do whats necessary to allow me to avoid triggers.

This gives me hope that we can make it through this and come out the other side.



Mg

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, hardwood floors in the family room are done! Need to stay off them til probably Saturday but since we plan on painting the whole upstairs (mostly to get rid of the last of the now-horrid artsy-fartsy sponge painted walls that were there when we moved in 19 years ago lol) we'll need to get moving on finishing that room if we want to have it reassembled for Sunday night.

Interestingly we are loath to actually load up the family room with furniture again... it's so beautiful when it's empty with the brick fireplace, two big windows looking out on a farmer's field and the newly renewed floor! The TV needs to go back there (although MrsMg is really enjoying having the TV and loveseat where the kitchen table normally is! A 55" TV that looks smallish in the family room looks massive when you're 8' away!) but we're thinking of decluttering and not putting a shelving unit that was full of crap back in. Since we live in that room 90% of the time decluttering would make it more restful!

Since I had to pull speaker wire out of the baseboards when we prepped the room for the refinish I'm really loath to put it back. Looking at wireless options for the surround speakers that need to go on the back wall...

Mg

I have enjoyed reading your story. You were quick to act and tell me choices. That alone is one of the biggest things BHs fail to do early on and it never ends well when he allows her to cake eat.

I don't like radical exposure either. And I don't think kids need t know IF the marriage has a shot at recovery. Once it is clear the marriage won't survive I believe kids of the marriage need to know the truth. Not all the gory details, but the main truth.

As for telling a BS? If I had absolute proof of the betrayal, I would tell. Many people disagree, but I wold want to know. I was married to a serial cheater and no one told me. Don't you WH's you had know what your WW was doing?

But at any rate, you have the right to not discuss it with anyone.

Yes I would definitely want to know as well.

MG, you definitely took the bull by the horns and that is admirable. A lot of BS' enter into a fog full of insecurity, depression, and dependency. You avoided that fog. Nicely done and I wish you continued success with Marriage 2.0.

This was a HUGE point of contention at the MC. Mostly because of how close the OM lived it was possible and even probable that OM's kids would attempt to contact my kids, despite being at different schools and not being in any other activities together. On the flip side DS13 and MrsMg have an occasionally rocky relationship (DS16 is the apple of her eye) so disclosure would drive that down a not so good path. DS16 would probably turn on me and tell me it was because I neglected MrsMg, which is true but no excuse.

At the end of the day we changed the kids phone numbers and didn't tell them. Not happy with the decision, and if one of the kids asked I'd tell them the whole truth, but it is what it is.



One of the ONS was a friend who spent 5-6 years with us in Scouting. He and WW were paired up with the girls patrol we took to a Jamboree and spent most of a week together while I was in the oldest kids patrol that did all the challenging stuff. I presume that went a long way to starting an EA. He's dead to me, but I love his kids very much. And his wife is an absolute firebrand, so I have no doubts disclosure would result in his wardrobe hitting the lawn. At the same time I have no proof but WW's confession. Having disclosure hanging over his head (he knows what happened with localguy1) means he'll respect NC as well. My marriage trumps his BS's need to know unfortunately.

The other longer term affair that had petered out by D-Day was constantly whining about hating his wife and their shinola relationship etc. He seemed to have a great relationship with his kids (based on a few dozen emails I have read.) So disclosing to his wife (who I don't know but have stalked on FB etc.) would probably result in the guy being cut loose, and the kids being impacted. And do I want this guy on the loose? Nope. I want him trapped in his marriage. Do I want disclosure hanging over his head so he respects NC? Yup.

Just a little more rationale I guess. Thank you for your support <3

Mg

I know. It erodes my soul to keep this secret for these horrible people. Just another shinola sandwich I have to eat because of WW's bad decisions.


Thank you so much for your support <3

Mg

Found this article again, need to print it out and digest it before commenting but I think it has some value...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/surprised-love/201201/once-cheater-always-cheater-maybe-not

Mg

Spent the weekend either Xmas shopping with MrsMg or painting the family room. I'm not sure DS16 really understood the objective tho...



Mg

Ha!

Pretty color

Love it! These are fun memories you'll look back on and enjoy.

You can probably tell which one is the archer and which one is the football lineman and lacrosse goalie

Mg

So back to "Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater... Maybe Not"...

I find that the "Type IV: Benevolent Neglect Affairs" are very close to what I think I've experienced. The Child Focused Marriage and Parallel Lives affairs are resonating with me since my life was generally disconnected from MrsMg to a great degree either through my gaming activities or because I have a heavy workload of kids stuff that because of her job I wasn't getting a lot of help with. That led me to often neglect her Domestic Support EN since I figured I was carrying my share of the load by doing most of the child care duties whereas she was able to do the housework when she eventually got home from work.

And of course as I've already surmised the longer term As were NJF type stuff. The only off thing is the spat of ONS (although really the last one was probably a NJF A that got disrupted early by D-Day) that apparently happened after the localguy2 thing broke down... I guess that was more about the Parallel Lives Affair thing and being 51 in a marriage that was disconnected. I dunno that stuff bothers me more than the longer term NJF As because it's not really clear why it happened. When I ask FWW she just says "I was crazy."

I guess I should be happy that the prognosis for Type IV As is that they can be recovered from. Certainly things are going fairly well except for the impacts on the As on me - I constantly have to resist lashing out right now for daily little challenges - I guess barely suppressed rage is a stage I'm in atm. I sure hope I don't run into an AP right now

Worth reading the article if you want to try to understand what makes your WS tick.

Mg

First of all hope you all had a very Merry Xmas and a safe and Happy New Years celebration!

It was a good year, we went to my brother's for Xmas dinner since we've hosted for several years in a row so there wasn't the usual stress for MrsMg to be the perfect hostess - which stresses everyone around her! It was just breakfast with the kids and grandparents then a quiet day before heading off to dinner.

We were off all the week between Xmas and NY so it was more painting and renos - we ordered laminate countertops in the end because they came in under $1500 installed (CDN!) so not too bad. We can afford that every 20 years or so. We also ordered ceramic tile floors that complement the counters so the kitchen is going to get a total makeover.

Unfortunately the ugly pink tile backsplash has to go. Started taking tile off a small section this weekend, wow what a miserable experience In one spot the drywall came off with the tile so I had to patch a big chunk of the wall. Not looking forward to the big section but at leasy I have it down to a science, using a flat screwdriver with a long handle to dig into the grout then lay it flat and hammer it to pop the tile off. Really tedious and lots of prep to do for the new stick-on tile sheets we're considering.

I find myself discouraging acquisitions that are not for the house (MrsMg has a hankering for a new stove for example) and happy to do stuff that increase the sale value of the house. I guess I'm still not 100% confident we won't see WW pop up again, even after almost 6 months of Marriage 2.0.

New Years was a difficult time for triggers, considering I saw a lot of tender emails wishing for time together from localguy1 from two years ago. I've been conciously avoiding make any reference to the As but MrsMg sure picks up on when I'm triggering which helps I guess.

Thank you for your support in 2017 and wish everyone all success in 2018!

Mg

Now those are scary words all together! You're doing great with a renovations, but you are wise to not overdo it in areas you won't have resale value.

OMG I know right? What the heck were they thinking?

Well of course my expectation is that we will live here until they wheel us out feet first... an expectation that has become less certain in the past 6 months (!) but still an expectation. So even if it's not an investment that would return in a quick sale, still worth investing in. Not to mention I'd be trying to assume the entire mortgage and buy WW out if the fecal matter hits the fan.

Gives us something to do together that deposits lots in the Love Bank, not such a bad thing!

Mg

You may want to just take the whole wall down and put up new drywall. The waterproofness of dryboard back when pink tile was installed is not as good as today anyway. It's really easy, and would probably be quicker than taking down individual tiles. If you can, though, save the tiles and sell them on ebay. Lots of people are looking for that retro stuff.

Meh, the wall I damaged was an interior wall and only had a 2'x3' patch of tile on it so I just skinned it with drywall mud and sanded, it's flat enough to put the new covering on now so mission accomplished.

Counter guys are coming Tuesday to measure and quote for the new counters so I'll get a timeline for when I need to tackle the main part of the kitchen. Hopefully I'm adept enough at removing the tile I won't damage the wall this time. Putting up a new wall would be tons tons tons of disassembly of cabinets etc. so I think I'll just continue with removal.

These pink tiles are probably not what you're thinking of, they are 2"x2" and only 20 years old so into the trash with them!

Finished staining the trim on the new windows, they install it unstained so I tried gel stain and left them up, worked a treat!

Mg

Sounds like you're doing awesome work!

Domestic Support was a big problem on my side (i.e. being crappy at it) with Marriage 1.0 so there's a backlog of stuff to do!

Ceramic tile floors for the kitchen, dining area, and entrance area came in at $3,500 installed (gulp!) but they'll last longer than I will, so probably a good investment. If a buyer walked in and saw the current stuff they'd turn around and walk out... after that it's just the upstairs bathroom (raze and start again) and the garage door and the job jar is empty.

MrsMg is pumping money into the new joint savings account now (wonder where it went before?) so we're on track to cover these expenses, put a chunk on the mortgage when we can put a lump sum on it, and still have enough for a vacation next year. We took out some equity on the house when we renewed the mortgage, zeroed out all credit card etc. debt and left a chunk in cash for renovations. It sure helps our house has more than doubled in value since we bought it in 1999!

After D-Day we cancelled all credit cards except one joint VISA, opened a joint chequing where all the mortgage and tax payments come from, and a joint savings account for savings we're both contributing to. We each have our own chequing and savings accounts where our cheques get deposited but more and more is ending up joint.

A leap of faith I guess for the joint accounts but MrsMg has pretty much handed me the keys to all her finances, so not even sure she could log into her accounts at this point lol. Huge departure from Marriage 1.0 when we had separate accounts and just split up the bills. I'm very good with money so works for me!

Mg

OMG that $3500 was just labour, total cost was $5700, not going to happen LOL. I guess I'll have to watch some youtube videos and do it myself!

Not a lot of work happened this weekend, we bought blackout drapes for the family room otherwise it's too bright to watch TV in there, and did some shopping with the kids. Nice to have a fairly slack weekend, especially when the temps got up to 0C when they've been hovering around -30C for weeks!

Mg