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Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Orchid2] #418820
01/25/17 06:34 PM
01/25/17 06:34 PM
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Thank you, Hold, for answering my questions. I don't think you give yourself enough credit for your outstanding patience.

She doesn't steal or lie anymore. So I don't think having a joint account where both your salaries are deposited and bills paid from is unreasonable anymore. I know it once was.

Also, involving her in its accounting would be reasonable, now. With separately maintained savings accounts--so that presents to each other come from there, with a budgeted allowance from the central account going monthly to each.

My DH was a shopaholic for many years. I didn't have it nearly as bad as you or Orchid did. Mostly because of my AO's and DJ's, my DH was afraid of me. Still...we've battled it throughout our marriage. Funny thing...as he conquered it himself, he got some self-confidence. And when I stopped attacking our marriage through justifications and AO's and DJ's and all the rest...well, it helped, too.

The switch comes from gaining the good dopamine drops from not spending greater than the ones for spending. Also, when we did have to make a larger purchase item, I would ask him to do it--the research and eventual purchase. That helped a lot. Along with the admiration and appreciation he received from doing it so well.

I had to own up to being a miser, too. He would get false self-acceptance and confidence from spending; very much like a substance addiction. I would get it from being falsely virtuous for not spending--sacrifice and pride from playing victim. Talking about it, as it happened, doing those honesty drive-bys really made the difference.

Your DW seems to talk to you more now than back when. What if you asked her to tell you every time she wanted to make a purchase and didn't? Would that be of interest to you?

I'm happy your goal is to stay married--you can't make her want to stay married. You know that. It's what you tell yourself. You're getting closer to empty nest--and easing of the huge monetary obligations--and I'm looking out for the marriage. It's a big change. And further--when you have lots of time together. Our goal was to retire together. Now what?

smile

LA


The Paradoxical Commandments

Married 28 years/Together 30
Recovered 10 years
MALovingAnyway@gmail.com
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: LovingAnyway] #418821
01/25/17 07:05 PM
01/25/17 07:05 PM
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It is interesting as the layers are peeled away what is uncovered.

I have always stated that for most (not all but most), the A is a symptom more than the cause. For many the A is part of a bigger problem.

In my WST's case, that is the revealing part. In his case, he has become his dad and mom's worst combination. Combination of taking their bad habits and weaknesses and letting it be nurtured within his soul. While some of his other siblings have decided to do similar but in a less combined and more destructive level.

There are many paths persons can take. On the flip side, I have seen 2 of his siblings (he has 11), resist those inclinations and become good, honest and faithful men. Only one of them is married, the other is divorced......a different story.

So Hold, what do you think is her real reason for these actions over all these years? Is it something you can afford to live with? It is a question I have wrestled with myself.

LA, thanks for your posts, it got me thinking and well.......we know how dangerous that can be. LOL!!!! wink

Take care,
Orchid

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: LovingAnyway] #418839
01/26/17 05:37 PM
01/26/17 05:37 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: LovingAnyway
She doesn't steal or lie anymore. So I don't think having a joint account where both your salaries are deposited and bills paid from is unreasonable anymore. I know it once was.


We can agree to disagree. She still asks to use the cards all the time. She is better about not "stealing" them and using them without my permission, but that does not mean that if I gave full access to her she would continue to always ask my permission before spending. I got burned the last time I gave her control. I am NEVER giving her full access. Ever again. There is NOTHING she can say or do that would convince me the reward of a "closer relationship" with her is worth the risk of financial ruin. Could I be any clearer?

Like I said, we have tens of thousands of dollars of credit card debt and no plans to dial down our lifestyle to repay that debt any time soon. When we discuss these issues, she gets very defensive. She is not interested in having a calm discussion of how we could cut back expenses and generate more funds available to pay down card balances. That is part of what causes me to decide that I cannot trust her with any level of control over our finances.

She doesn't seem to derive any emotional benefit from the idea of living without debt hanging over our heads. She just knows what she wants and pushes relentlessly for me to consent to paying for them. We have discussed her going to back to working full time outside the home now that both kids are out of the house and the cancer threat has receded (thankfully all treatments over months ago). She likes working part time for minimum wage because it provides a flexible schedule. Fine. Then stop asking me over and over again for expensive things we can't afford and pushing to spend more (can we go here? can we get tickets for this? can we get this for the kids?) rather than spending your times trying to come up with ways to spend less so we save more and can pay down more of our debt.

You seem to envision a partnership between us that simply does not exist. Maybe she wishes I treated her more as an equal. I tried that. It was horrific. I don't actually think she wants that. I think deep down she wishes I were more forceful, not more cooperative. But my being forceful terrifies her, so she fights tooth and nail any time I try to do more than veto overspending. I agree the "parent'child" dynamic we have on finances is a bad dynamic. But, like democracy, that doesn't mean it isn't the best dynamic available.

Look, I understand I am a big part of the problem. My fears and insecurities. My neediness. My unwillingness to go "all in" and become the best man and husband I can be. I am not saying this is entirely her fault. Just look how defensive I got when you suggested going back to having joint accounts. It is like I have PTSD.

When I say this is the best available dynamic, I understand that is in large part because of the constraints I am placing on finding a better solution. This is the best I can do without going outside my comfort zone. Maybe something better is available outside my comfort zone. But, as with trying to determine how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop "the world may never know".

Thanks for caring.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #418844
01/26/17 06:10 PM
01/26/17 06:10 PM
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Hold, the problem is not your unwillingness to go outside of your comfort zone.

It's that she is unwilling to even consider going outside of hers and growing up finally. She is locked into a perpetual state of irresponsible immaturity.

The way I see it, she's not 8 years old anymore. Long past time to grow up.
However, she has chosen the option of being Passive Master and it has been working for the duration of your relationship, so she has no motivation to consider changing.

The only part of your mutual dynamic that I don't fully understand is your fear that she could/would find anyone out there with more money than you who would have her.
The most I could see is that someone might come along and toy with her momentarily, then get the heck outta Dodge.. (Not that she wouldn't deserve it, either.) frown

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #418847
01/26/17 08:42 PM
01/26/17 08:42 PM
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You maybe needy but she is financially co-dependent on you.

Mine is the same way and can't see that fact. So now he gets to go off to lala land and figure out that $$$ has on emotion or loyalty. You either have it or not.

He took us to the point of filing bankruptcy....actually went over that cliff. Restoring my credit now is a big challenge as a result and despite my warnings and my constant income (except for a portion of 2013) out of 26+ years, he didn't listen.

So for me this separation is emotionally draining and makes me feel as if I failed but financially, my son and I should be doing better. Not great but better. Great will be a goal. smile

Hold, take a look at it from her real issues.......a selfish stance of which she shows no signs of changing. Start there and plan ahead.

I get that it takes a while and you want to wait until the kids are grown, the house is paid and all that catch up stuff. But if a hurricane blew in today and wiped all that out, wouldn't you start over?

I had to look at it that way. It helped. I focused on recovery for us not rescue for him. I could no longer fund his dysfunction.

jmo,
Orchid

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Orchid2] #418858
01/27/17 02:33 AM
01/27/17 02:33 AM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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TC is correct and incorrect. Yes it is partly her issues but it is also partly mine. That is why this is so difficult and poignant. If I were stronger, I could help her with her PTSD as to sex. If she were stronger, she could help me with mine. A it is, we both mean well but neither of us is healthy and whole enough to heal ourselves much less help the other. Tragic but all too common.

Orchid: Do not worry, I do have an ironclad boundary. I don't let us run up credit card debts in excess of our equity on our house. As long as I control the spending to stay within that boundary, and don't give her access to more assets or more credit, then even if we divorce we can sell the house, use the proceeds to pay off our credit card debt, and then start over with a clean slate. No, neither of us would have money available to put a down payment on a house, but with the kids grown that just means each of us would decide where to rent a small apartment and how much to pay for rent and that is what divorced people need to do anyway.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #418865
01/27/17 04:23 AM
01/27/17 04:23 AM
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I was quoting you...which was me saying "If this is true, then you can now have a partnership."

It's not true. You do have PTSD. And it's reasonable, understandable. You're not unique or wrong.

My offer was to challenge you to see this as ongoing financial infidelity. So you, being here on MA, could have a plan and a path to recovery. So you can really see your WW as she truly is--because she relentlessly pursues your permission to have affairs with spending.

Not asking for strength--asking for you to decide to walk the path of the BS to recovery. Which first takes telling her how traumatic her continued infidelity really is--every request outside the budget is like asking you "Can I bang him? How 'bout him? Will you buy him and me dinner, too?"

And the ongoing interest on such a debt is screwing you. You know that. That's a daily harm, accruing. Inside and out. To her and to you. So you contribute to actively harming your wife and marriage daily. That's harsh. Tell me if it's true. You might have thought your passivity was safe, that you weren't doing harm.

I'm asking you to be truly kind to your WW. Tell her how the debt is eating up true financial security. That you want to recover your marriage from her cheating. Which includes building trust, being honest, defining personal and marital boundaries, and stop hurting you.

Give her a path back; including working full-time, acknowledging and owning her choices throughout the marriage and every day to do harm to you and the marriage; and to actively commit to not doing harm to you and the marriage.

Because redemption is rooted in love. Without asking for her to stop, you enable her to continue. She may continue--you can decide to not aide and abet the guilt/shame spiral that continues it.

Her pleasure from spending is fleeting. The guilt/shame portion of the cycle gets longer, hurts more and more. It's an emotional cancer.

Mentally, your boundaries prepare for the marriage to fail eventually. That's your fail safe line. Yet your goal is to stay married, so that's an ongoing slow corrosion, really, isn't it? Against what you want most?

Begins with stating that you experience her as unfaithful and untrustworthy; as a partner attacking the marriage and yourself with deep pain.

You turned physical infidelity as a "I don't want to know" which translates to financial infidelity as well. But you've said that isn't true...you want to know when she does it and you hate to be asked over and over again for her to do it.

Give her the perspective and see if she wants to get to redemption. She can't see reward in being debt free until she understands the peril and pain of it.

She doesn't become a healthy partner until she stops being a danger.

Your job is to share and see what she wants most.

This isn't rating you as better or best husband. There is no rating system. You're you. She loves you. Whether you accept that or not. You're half of the marriage.

If you'll have this talk...then continue it. Each time she asks for something outside the budget--say "Ouch." Mean it. Feel it. Just like when she pulls away from your touch when you're feeling close--say "Ouch." That's your job.

Tell her that a marriage recovered from financial infidelity has no debt, deep savings, equality and trust. That you want to get there. You want that freedom and reward. And you want it for her, too.

It's not forceful...it could be essential.

You do so well in seeing each other's shortcomings and I hear a forgiveness that exceeds tolerance. Seems to me you've been treading water to avoid the torture of drowning and you've forgotten, you can fly.

LA


The Paradoxical Commandments

Married 28 years/Together 30
Recovered 10 years
MALovingAnyway@gmail.com
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: LovingAnyway] #418878
01/27/17 02:58 PM
01/27/17 02:58 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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This is why you are such a gem and were so sorely missed. I hope many others are reading so they can experience your beautiful eloquent words.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #418884
01/27/17 06:08 PM
01/27/17 06:08 PM
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LA that is beautiful.

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: LovingAnyway] #418900
01/28/17 01:30 PM
01/28/17 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: LovingAnyway
I feel like I've hijacked Hold's thread, though.

I think Hold has a no hijack is really a hijack policy on his thread - please correct me or edit me if I am wrong Mr Moderator Hold! smile smile smile

LA - there are lots of us who read on this thread and I agree with the others that it is nice to see you back again and I am sure we all appreciate your perspective!
At least I do!

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Rich57] #418901
01/28/17 05:55 PM
01/28/17 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: Rich57
I am sure we all appreciate your perspective!
At least I do!
Me two! yahoo


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Ace] #418902
01/28/17 08:14 PM
01/28/17 08:14 PM
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Agree!

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Blair] #418910
01/29/17 01:26 AM
01/29/17 01:26 AM
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I'm so happy to see you, Rich! And look at Ace posting, too. grin (And hello to Blair.)

Hold--though I appreciate your post, my initial reaction is one of your most artful dodges. I hope you're mulling what I suggested. I hope you feel the deep and abiding love so many have for you and your marriage. That's what evident to me.

I don't know about eloquent words. I write from total focus on you and a deep desire to aid you in some way. I can be wrong--you know I've been wrong many times. And incomprehensible, too.

I know you do feel deeply, sir. I believe your wife does also. And by numbing ourselves we see our partners as being fine or numb, also.

Accepting that you feel deeply and making it your life's work to not feel at all--well, that's gotta hurt. You know?

You're not alone. Been there...done that. Just gives the illusion of working. Change your premise, change your life, toots.

LA


The Paradoxical Commandments

Married 28 years/Together 30
Recovered 10 years
MALovingAnyway@gmail.com
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #418915
01/29/17 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: LA
Seems to me you've been treading water to avoid the torture of drowning and you've forgotten, you can fly.
LA


Originally Posted By: Hold
this is why you are such a gem and were so sorely missed.


Hold nailed it so sweetly and succinctly. You have been sorely missed, LA. I'm as delighted as the others to see you here again with your signature point-blank, direct line to the heart of the matter insights--classic LA! Welcome back.
[/hijack]

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: right here waiting] #418925
01/29/17 05:05 PM
01/29/17 05:05 PM
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((((RHW)))) Thank you!


The Paradoxical Commandments

Married 28 years/Together 30
Recovered 10 years
MALovingAnyway@gmail.com
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: LovingAnyway] #418933
01/30/17 01:43 PM
01/30/17 01:43 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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LA: It was a dodge after I composed a lengthy reply as to why I would not be taking your advice. I decided that your post was so heartfelt and pure and good I would not sully it with my negativity.

I know I am in pain. I know this path will never lead to peace or satisfaction. I am continuing on this path anyway. I didn't want my negation to stand as my direct response to what you wrote. What you wrote was profound and lovely. A wiser man would take your advice.

You are, of course, correct in everything you wrote. I am hurting myself and my wife every day. I intend to continue to do so until the day I die. That is why I keep telling everyone here that, while I wish I could bring myself to return to being the good-hearted and well-intentioned person that I used to be, I can't and won't. Not as regards to myself.

Toward myself, I have switched to the side of evil. To the side of intentionally causing pain. I get more payoff from causing myself pain than I ever got from trying to obtain pleasure or at least refraining from causing pain when I could. I know it is bad and wrong and a waste and that I will end my days with a pile of regrets. Nevertheless, I am going to continue doing it.

I am too lazy and fearful to do the work to move toward happiness. The mountain is so high and I am so small and I simply cannot bring myself to begin that journey. I know it is one step at a time and one day at a time. But you have to turn to the light and take that first step. And I prefer to stay here cold and alone and hiding in the dark. From myself. You are all so kind and generous to be there for me. But I am not for myself. So all that the rest of you hope for and wish for and would be willing to do to help is all for naught. Because I am not for me.

That is why I had for a time stopped posting about me, moved my old thread to storage and devoted my time here only to posting to others. Because only with respect to others can I accomplish anything worthwhile. I slipped and posted about myself when Mrs. H got the offer to go on the trip and I was so badly torn inside about whether to grant my blessing and financial support. So in a time of weakness I broke my promise to myself and posted about me. Hopefully in the future I will be strong enough not to make that same mistake.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #418943
01/30/17 07:33 PM
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Hold,

I got it. I'm very sorry I was obtuse. My own stuff got in the way.

I'm glad you broke your promise to yourself. Your threads have always been important to me. Your severe honesty helps me to see we are all separate again after my emotions identify the rope that makes us all one.

That's essential and I thank you for it. I had a fear flash realizing you moved your old thread to storage and might do the same with this one again. I think you miss your ongoing accomplishment by being you. I can know myself more through reading your posts and those who post to you.

What we see in others we have in ourselves. Your own heartfelt eloquence is easily seen in every post. I thought of myself as a seeker, searching for information to save my marriage and then, as a sharer. I realize we are always both, simultaneously. I'm grateful to find you doing both when I came back and didn't realize you'd stopped at all.

I'm grateful you slipped and broke your promise to yourself. I'm richer because of it. What I write to you is really just want I wanted to tell myself and couldn't find the words.

What you think of as a mistake, I cherish. Thank you for making it. I believe all your posts, in storage or not, helps others and the only say you get in it, is whether or not they can be found. Not whether they help or not.

Let them be found, please.

I'm okay you won't be taking my advice. There's not a win/loss column for me if you do or don't. What there is for me is the journey itself. Your journey helps others and your willingness to share it, even as you share your wise counsel for others, isn't negated because you won't take advice. The act itself is the connection in a world where by design, we are alone.

So I challenge your self-perception that your good-hearted and well-intentioned self is past tense. He persists. Deal with it.

smile

LA


The Paradoxical Commandments

Married 28 years/Together 30
Recovered 10 years
MALovingAnyway@gmail.com
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: LovingAnyway] #418951
01/30/17 09:26 PM
01/30/17 09:26 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Oh, I know he is still there. I keep him locked in the basement, chained to a radiator. He is in misery. I revel in his misery. It is what he deserves. Like I said - evil.

That is why the harshest personal attack I can post to someone is: don't be like me. Don't start down this path. It doesn't end well.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #418953
01/30/17 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
Oh, I know he is still there. I keep him locked in the basement, chained to a radiator. He is in misery. I revel in his misery. It is what he deserves. Like I said - evil.

That is why the harshest personal attack I can post to someone is: don't be like me. Don't start down this path. It doesn't end well.


But I (and possibly many others), want you to be well. Are we misguided?

I'm determined for me to be and stay well, least what is within my control. A man harping on me to eat better but gives me grief being the prime source of my high BP and other ailments isn't my idea of being healthy.

Still I can control what I eat and I don't live in a box. I enjoy my eating and wear it well. I wear a smile as well and like it to be genuine (like my food). smile

I wish that for you, good food and smile. Is that doable? wink

Orchid

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Orchid2] #418954
01/30/17 10:21 PM
01/30/17 10:21 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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The problem is that I do not want to be well. Or at least I am not willing to do the work to become well. I am comfortable in my misery and terrified of change. I fear that if I get well I will not be able to tolerate staying married to Mrs. H. I fear that I will make stupid mistakes during the process of getting well. I fear that I will break my marriage or my career or both if I try to move from the stable but unpleasant "here" to the stable and more pleasant "there".

Seems to me that you guys see me as treading water in the middle of a deep lake, and you can't understand why I don't swim to shore. To you, it seems that it requires enormous energy to stay where I am, and that it would be much easier once I got to one shore or another. North, south, east or west, it doesn't appear to matter which direction I swim so long as I get moving.

To me it seems like I am stranded on a small island. There is a fresh water stream, some coconut palms, and I can catch some clams on the beach. Very primitive living. Lots of work to maintain myself. But doable forever. To me, it seems like you guys are asking me to get into the ocean and swim to the mainland. To me, it looks very far away. The water is cold. The surf looks very rough. And I fear I will drown if I step foot off my safe little island. You guys want me to have a life beyond cold water and coconuts. You want me to be part of the broader world. You guys are telling me that the mainland isn't all that far and the water will feel warm once I get in and get used to it. You guys are saying that if I am too weak to swim that far today then I should start exercising so I become stronger and can make the journey. But I am weak and afraid. I am going to stay on my small deserted island.

I cannot tell you how terrified I am of change. My pulse is racing and my breathing is shallow and I feel tightness in my chest just thinking about it.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #418955
01/30/17 11:01 PM
01/30/17 11:01 PM
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You've given me a lot to think about.......eating lunch and meditating (kinda).

Will reply more later.

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #418975
01/31/17 06:26 AM
01/31/17 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
The problem is that I do not want to be well. Or at least I am not willing to do the work to become well. I am comfortable in my misery and terrified of change. I fear that if I get well I will not be able to tolerate staying married to Mrs. H. I fear that I will make stupid mistakes during the process of getting well. I fear that I will break my marriage or my career or both if I try to move from the stable but unpleasant "here" to the stable and more pleasant "there"..........

...........I cannot tell you how terrified I am of change. My pulse is racing and my breathing is shallow and I feel tightness in my chest just thinking about it.


The common word here is 'fear'. Giving you credit for the honesty of your challenges.

How deep is your fear? What things do you change that you are ok wtih?

Do you eat only 1 type of breakfast, lunch and dinner? Are you open to trying new foods? Visiting new places? Learning new tasks? Venturing on new projects? Reaching out to others?

Right here on MA must have been a change for you, right? Look at how well you have helped others learn how to recognize, accept and change. thumbsup

Can you narrow down your fields of fear?

You know Hold, I have more hope for you than my H and that makes me happy for you but sad for my now WST. Maybe that's why I find your posts so interesting. I'm trying to understand how a man who has a basically good family is willing to walk away from it all, even without a raging A (or so I'm told). He has never really ever stood up for us or with us. That saddens me and I feel bad for my son, who certainly does not deserve to be treated as such. Still it is who he is and I can't change that. I know this and that is why we had to separate.

I fear change also. Especially change like having to downsize from a family of 3 to a family of 2. To move to a new place and make it work. There is some unknown that makes me lose sleep. I have to work to stay calm knowing that I have no backup, no partner who can watch out and be there for myself and my son. I have to work extra hard to carefully check and recheck our paths/decisions.

I pray a lot, it helps. smile

Orchid

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Orchid2] #418987
01/31/17 02:42 PM
01/31/17 02:42 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Orchid2
I'm trying to understand how a man who has a basically good family is willing to walk away from it all, even without a raging A (or so I'm told).


He has demons. He is running from them. Staying with you means staying with the demons, because you know all his weaknesses and insecurities. He wants to be away from you so he can pretend he doesn't have them. Of course, they go with him. Of course, it would be a wiser choice to stay with you and face his demons. You would help him do that if he asked. But he will not ask. Because he would rather run away from his good family than face his demons.

I understand his choice. I too refuse to face my demons. The only difference is that when push came to shove I stayed. Not the noble choice so many here think it was. I didn't stay primarily out of love for my wife. I stayed primarily out of fear. And because I knew I would be weak and abandon my kids if I left. And I enjoyed the interaction with them too much to give it up. That was not loving so much as selfish.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #419008
02/01/17 12:47 AM
02/01/17 12:47 AM
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Well you are certainly more honest than my WST. At least your acknowledge your demons and maybe if your reasons are always for the right reasons, you are making a better decision than WST is.

That's probably why I still feel there is hope for you and your M.

See, I don't get the opportunity to fail or feel weak. I have no backup person in my life to be there for me. Not in the financial or marital sense. So I have had to toughen it up for years. I get browbeaten for fighting to survive and finally got tired of fighting.

WST does get to live with his own demons. Least they won't be coming out to bother me as much from now on.

What I believe I had influenced his is fun to have another A. Took the air out of that one by reminding him of how the last fling ended (in court with a 3 year RO as a keepsake). So he claims he is alone, I say I don't know. He gets mad but really, if he refuses to be transparent about where he lives, what are we suppose to think? So I honestly, don't know. He doesn't get it, or he does and doesn't like that version. Who knows?!?!?!?!

I think he lives next to a river (de'nial).

Don't go fishing there, it is stocked with stinkfish. eek

jmo,
Orchid

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Orchid2] #419014
02/01/17 01:38 PM
02/01/17 01:38 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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One call with Mrs. H exemplifies the situation. She called to ask if she could take some of her friends from work to lunch at a members-only club I belong to. I was angry at her for asking. Pouncing on me on the phone in the moment with her friends standing next to her after she already mentioned to them that she would ask me. Puts me on the spot where I am the bad guy. I hate that. I have told her so. she does it with the kids all the time and it drives me batty. Maybe if she asked in advance in private before discussing it with others I might feel OK about it. But when she pounces on me I feel attacked and violated. Just like she feels when I try to initiate sex "out of the blue". Part of why I don't initiate sex any more. I know how it feels to be asked for something you don't want to share.

But that is my problem. I want to be the type of husband who would say "yes, sure, it will be fun and a treat". But given all my frustration and resentment, I told her "no".

Yes, I had practical reasons. I was not there so there would be an added guest fee. And the place does not give checks at the end of the meal (they bill members monthly) so it would be difficult for the women to split the check among themselves (and I had no intention of treating the entire group - which to me is part of the problem). So I explained this to Mrs. H and she withdrew the request.

But I felt bad for wanting to say no. I wasn't looking to find a way to make it happen for her and her work friends. I was looking for justifications to say no. I hate being a husband who is looking for ways to say no to his wife. And I expect to be that husband for the rest of my life. Lucky I enjoy being depressed.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
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