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Am I still a doormat?
#414070
09/22/16 01:51 PM
09/22/16 01:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,052
holdingontoit
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,052
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Mrs. Hold has an amazing opportunity. As most of you know, she had cancer last year. Surgery. Chemo. Radiation. The whole ugly intrusive course of medicine. But it seems to have worked. She has a scan in a few weeks that will hopefully show no signs of cancer.
A good female friend of hers just got divorced. Part of her settlement was a bunch of frequent flyer miles that expire at the end of December. She invited Mrs. Hold to go on an expensive vacation paid for with the expiring miles.
Mrs. Hold loves to travel. I can't afford to take her on lots of fancy trips and when we weren't getting along so well I did not enjoy going alone with her so for a number of years we only went away with the kids. She is really excited about going.
She discussed it with me and at first I was opposed. You know, all the MB things about time together and protection against cheating and all that. The friend is not a "party girl" but she is recently divorced and might be looking for some positive affirmations. She is available and Mrs. Hold isn't. And guys are going to circle around two attractive unattached females.
Then again, the trip is in December and that is my busy season at work and Mrs. H and I don't see much of each other that month anyway. So a couple of weeks of her having fun and me bearing down at work is not such a bad idea.
We had a long talk about situations and protecting yourself. Similar to the talk we had with D19. I told D19 "never leave a party alone with a boy unless you intend to have sex with him, because once he gets you alone late at night he might not take no for an answer - especially if you both have been drinking." So I told Mrs. H no getting walked back to her hotel room. Take an Uber and no sharing with him. If he is staying in the same hotel, do not get in the same elevator alone. Make up an excuse why you need a bellhop to come to your room and go to the font desk and get one. She looked at me like I am crazy to think she would cheat or that she has any interest in another man. I told her it is not her level of interest that worries me, it is his.
Finally, I told her: if anything happens, I do NOT want to know. That is a secret you take to your grave. Do not feel entitled to unburden your conscience at my expense. You did the crime, you do the time by having it eat away at you ever waking moment of every day for the rest of your life. I told her that seems like a fair punishment to me.
I am so torn about whether I am being a fabulous husband by letting her go or being a wimpy doormat.
Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
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Re: Am I still a doormat?
[Re: holdingontoit]
#414089
09/22/16 06:57 PM
09/22/16 06:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,972 South
Oblivious2678
Member
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Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,972
South
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Hold, I totally feel your anxiety about this, believe me I do, but it's one of those situations where you have to trust her judgement. She's a grown woman.
Your explanation about sex, the feeling, the meaning, the enjoyment...totally on the same page as you here too.
You are definitely not a doormat. I see you as a man who knows what he wants, is now wearing it on his sleeve, and communicates it in a civil, caring manner.
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Re: Am I still a doormat?
[Re: Orchid2]
#414110
09/23/16 01:27 PM
09/23/16 01:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,052
holdingontoit
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OP
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Posts: 7,052
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Cat: I did tell her all this. I am not worried about her, I am worried about them and want her alarm system activated. And I do think the trip is good for her, which is why I agreed to spend the money to make it possible. Despite our mountain of credit card debt and the fact that she will miss 3 weeks of work and need extra spending money when she gets back. it is not free for us even if her friend covers all the hotel costs. This is still going to cost us several thousand dollars.
NED: Good point. She has expressed similar feelings. I will pay attention and reassure her that there has been no misbehavior on my part. Because there hasn't been.
Orchid: Don't worry, the end game will almost certainly not be needed. And it is not a threat of physical punishment, financial mistreatment, or anything so dire. If she confesses to having cheated (and be clear, I don't think she will cheat, and I don't think she would tell me if she did), then I would tell her I do not intend to divorce her. I would tell her I intend to stay with her to serve as a daily reminder of how much she hurt me. Or we can call the kids and tell them Dad is divorcing Mom because she cheated on him while away on vacation. Her choice. Like I said, LG's worst nightmare. My point to TC was not to focus on what my end game is. Was just telling him that I don't plan my moves out 5 steps ahead. I plot it out farther than that.
Guys, I honestly don't worry that she is seeking to meet someone else or that she would have sex with anyone else. I honestly believe she finds the thought of having sex with another man disgusting. As I told her, the idea of these conversation is not to accuse her. It is to warn and protect her. She may not have any intentions to do wrong. But the guys who are going to be circling her may well have intentions of trying to trick or entice her into straying. And she has been "out of circulation" for a long time and is not used to being at bars or nightclubs without me and without being in a large group of women. The dynamic with only 1 or 2 women at a bar is different than with your H or with a large group, and I want her to be aware and on guard. Just like we warned our D before college of several situations she may well find herself in and how to respond. Forewarned is forearmed. Instead of thinking "how nice this guy is being, what a gentleman", I want her to think "OMG he is doing exactly what Hold said he would do to try and worm his way into my confidence". I do not care if she is "unfair" to or "mistreats" some guy with honorable intentions. I want to make sure she escapes the clutches of anyone who has dishonorable intentions. Extraordinary protections is my mantra.
Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
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Re: Am I still a doormat?
[Re: holdingontoit]
#414633
10/11/16 07:20 PM
10/11/16 07:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,887 HI
Orchid2
Ambassador
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Ambassador
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,887
HI
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Hold, I read your posts and feel your suffering. The uncomfortable position our choices in marriage have put us in. Some of it was our contribution but if we have made our personal improvements to the best of our abilities, enough so that we are comfortable with who we are and still we are made to settle for less or don't feel wanted, then life doesn't have that 'happily ever after' affect. In fact most R or M's don't have the 'happily ever after' affect, that's fantasy for the most part. Y? Because we are not perfect. Still the current condition of your M is more than not being perfect. There are some strong feelings translating into actions or non-actions of which both you and your W have accepted. Not wanted maybe but accepted. I can relate. Sad to say, my H (former WS) has made choices that have hurt and saddened our M as well. He knows it and chooses to continue as such. He periodically does do nice things but that is not what he is known for. Y? Because he is known for not caring vs caring. In his case he displays characteristics of narcissism even if on a mild basis. Ever watch the movie Blended with Adam Sandler and Drew Barrymore? I saw only the 2nd half last night but the scene where her XH comes to babysit the kids and Adam Sandler shows up and the XH pretends he and Drew's character are reconciling, then skipping out on their son's baseball game is a prime example of how a narcissistic person can show up in our lives. Your R with your W maybe for different reasons. That plus the article I posted in the Thunderdome forum about identifying a narcissist was quite revealing to me. It sort of put a clearer definition to what I have been experiencing and witnessing for years.  I'm glad you are able to post your feelings. It has been helpful to me. Thanks, Orchid
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Re: Am I still a doormat?
[Re: AntigoneRisen]
#415036
10/19/16 06:56 PM
10/19/16 06:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,052
holdingontoit
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OP
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Posts: 7,052
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No use beating a dead horse. She is going. I warned her to be on the lookout for vultures circling. As you say, she is a grown woman and knows how to deflect male attention if she wants to deflect it. Now that her radar is turned on she won't be caught unawares.
Anyway, I don't think she has ever been as happy to be married to me as she is now. She never displayed this level of pleasure with our relationship when dating or during honeymoon. when she talks about going away, she keeps saying that she wishes I could go with her.
As I said before, I am not worried about her wanting someone else. I am worried about her newly divorced friend wanting some male attention and Mrs. Hold being too nice to be a wet blanket toward the person who is paying for her cruise. And as we all know, once you involve alcohol and being alone with a man, it ceases to be solely a question of the woman's autonomy.
Has she recently gone out with a group of female friends and gotten drunk and silly? Yes. But with a group. Less chance of being pulled away from a group. Here it is just Mrs. Hold and the divorcee. If the divorcee decides to take a man back to her cabin, now Mrs. Hold is alone and drunk on a cruise ship. At that point, it is not her I distrust.
I am not drawing any fixed boundaries here. There are no limits on what we have agreed she can do. She is a big girl and she can decide for herself. I have just told her that if she chooses foolishly, don't confess to me. And if she confesses to me, I am not giving her the easy way out. I will stay with her and hold it over her head for the rest of her life.
Yes, I know, not a very pro-relationship way of communicating. Yes, allows some of my underlying hostility to leak out. "Leak" is being generous to me. I don't care. Which part of "I have no intention of doing any further work to resolve my conflicted feelings toward her" have I not been crystal clear about? She knows I have underlying hostility. She knows where the door is.
I know how much she loves to travel. I know we wouldn't be able to afford this for a couple of decades, if ever. I am glad she has this opportunity to indulge her lust for travel and adventure. But I know once the dopamine kicks in, people's boundaries tend to loosen. So I warned her to be on the lookout for that.
Otherwise I hope she has a great time. She will come home happy and excited. She will thank me for not objecting to her going. She will be even more thrilled to be married to a wonderful guy like me. Hey, I have to give her some reason to stay despite my underlying hostility. I am a fool, but I am an exceedingly aware and calculating fool.
Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
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