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Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443386
06/27/19 12:59 PM
06/27/19 12:59 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Blair: Partly that she doesn't feel loved or valued. I told her I love her the best I know how to do, and I am sorry if that isn't enough.

Orchid: I did not tell her "of course I like you". Not sure if the absence of that response had any impact.

She is less in denial than she used to be. She admits she had anxiety and PTSD. She admits that she finds it easier to manage the anxiety and PTSD now that she has access to different meds based on her cancer. And because the anti-estrogen drugs she takes have eliminated her migraines and her hormonal fluctuations.

I think the big thing for her is that I snap at her when I am annoyed by something she says. She doesn't like that. I think she "picked" me originally in large part because I was so meek. These days I am not so much less meek as less invested in her. As I have said often, a big part of my meekness and fear around her was about her power to control access to sex. I never wanted to raise my voice or have an irritated tone because I knew that would cause the doors to clang shut. Another part of the meekness was because she was so beautiful and so sexy I knew she could replace me at a moment's notice. Now she is older and scarred and still pretty but not the bombshell she was before the surgery. And we don't have sex. So I am less terrified of her leaving me or cheating on me. She tells me all the time that I have to take care of myself because she would be lost without me.

So the roles have reversed. She is now the person who is afraid their spouse might leave or stray and is desperately clinging to me. When I raise my voice, it scares her. Like her getting a tone in her voice used to terrify me.

I may be a small person of poor character, but I must say this: I much prefer being on this side of that dynamic. I have never been here before and it feels great.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443494
07/08/19 02:39 PM
07/08/19 02:39 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Wow, interesting anniversary weekend.

Mrs H started in a good mood. Very affectionate. She wanted to have sex. Anniversary is one of the 3 days per year (her birthday, Valentine's and anniversary) when I have promised her that if she asks for sex, she will get some. I know how much it hurts to be rejected on those occasions. She asked, and we tried. I was very gentle (she complimented me on that the following day), but it was still too uncomfortable and she asked to stop within a short period of time. We cuddled afterward.

The rest of the weekend she picked at me and accused me of all manner of insulting behavior. Some things I did. Some things I should not have done. A couple of times I snapped at her from frustration.

She said she did not appreciate being snapped at, especially after she had sex for the first time in a long while (her words). I apologized. Total surrender. There is nothing to discuss. A big part of why I refuse to have sex with her most days of the year is that her having sex is such a big deal to her that she expects me to fall down at her feet profusely thanking her for it. Which I cannot bring myself to do. When we first met, I did exactly that. I was so happy to have someone who would have sex with me once every week or two that I kissed the ground she walked on. I think she married me in part because I behaved that way. Now I am not so horny and desperate and I simply do not feel the overwhelming thankfulness. And I won't pretend I do.

Makes it very clear to me that we should never have sex. She needs a reaction to it that I cannot provide. May have to rethink the "never say no on the big days" rule.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443500
07/08/19 07:12 PM
07/08/19 07:12 PM
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Maybe she’s surprised you still dislike her so much after sharing something so intimate and special together.


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443501
07/08/19 07:43 PM
07/08/19 07:43 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Another reason to never have sex. She needs too much reassurance after sex that I am "safe" for her. That she can be vulnerable to me and I will not betray her trust.
But I am too frustrated and resentful for a single episode, let alone a not particularly successful one, to cause me to react in puppy dog fashion. I am far from infatuated with her.
This is our standard template. There isn't anything I am able to provide that overlaps with what she needs. And vice versa.
The only mistake was in trying to have sex at all. Once I toss the "3 exceptions" rule, we won't have to worry about making that mistake again.
No need for me to tell her that. She would not see it as reassuring "don't worry, you will never have to open yourself up to me again". She would see it as an accusation "no point in trying because you'll never be good enough".

Nothing wrong with her not wanting to have sex with someone who dislikes her. The problem was me consenting to sex despite knowing that I still resent her so much.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443502
07/08/19 08:09 PM
07/08/19 08:09 PM
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After a lifetime of replaying the same old script, it is no wonder you harbor such resentment.

Bottom line is that puppy Is broke and there ain’t no fixin’ it..

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443503
07/08/19 09:35 PM
07/08/19 09:35 PM
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I think she initially thought she was doing you a favor, but then it hurt her too much so she took her anger and disaapointment out on you. I would agree that you should probably never have sex with her again. I'm sorry, Hold. I know that hurts.

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443507
07/09/19 01:59 AM
07/09/19 01:59 AM
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Unfortunately I think TC and Blair are right. 😕

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443525
07/10/19 02:20 PM
07/10/19 02:20 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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I seem to be out of the dog house. Amazing how not reacting at all to her pouting shortens the pouting duration. Just like when our DD was 3.

On the other hand, she does feel free to be honest about listing my shortcomings. Which is fine. I truly am glad to hear her honest feedback. I asked her if we should buy the protection plan for an item I bought yesterday. She said "well, are you really going to box the thing up if it breaks and send it back? Or are you going to pay for the insurance and then never use it?" And I said "pay for the insurance and never use it, which means it would be dumb to pay for the insurance". I like her knowing my shortcomings and staying anyway. I guess she got hurt enough over the weekend to tell herself "screw it, I am going to admit to how I feel. If he gets insulted and pouts, so be it." Which in my view is how marriage should be. And if she thinks that being honest about my flaws would push me to leave her, she doesn't know me as well as she thinks she does.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443526
07/10/19 03:05 PM
07/10/19 03:05 PM
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By the end that’s where Daryl and I were. It was rather remarkable. To know we each had love for one another and were willing to stay no matter what those flaws and annoyances might be? The sense of security and freedom it brought? The contentment and acceptance? The feeling of love and being accepted? Miraculous!


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443602
07/16/19 02:46 PM
07/16/19 02:46 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Did not want to keep hijacking WuD's thread.

Originally Posted by WhatsUpDoc
Hold: I would definitely adorn the cloak. These costumes appear “medieval” ( rudimentary), but in actuality the attention to detail, craftsmanship is impressive. Great pride is taken. I know.

Elf, huh? Leather elf? Bet that is a sight! Wizards wear gowns, at least you can catch a breeze! The type of material is important, too. Breathable.


Yes, the leather outfit is quite a site. Especially with sword strapped to my back, daggers on my chest, drinking horn, etc. But the pants alone weigh 5 pounds and with several layers on top it is HOT in the summer. Better as spring or fall attire.

Yes, I got robe (=gown) made of cotton. Cotton cloak with hood that I may or may not wear. And a tall pointed felt hat. All solid grey. Think Gandalf the Grey. Yes, it needs to be adorned. I was thinking silver and grey norse rune beads would be good. They are made to be weaved into hair but I am thinking they would make great items for the robe or for a necklace. Will give it more thought as to how best to attach it. Thanks for confirming my attitude that it does need adornment.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443603
07/16/19 03:44 PM
07/16/19 03:44 PM
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You could also embroider symbols onto the cloak, with full thickness embroidery floss (use easy back stitches/ transfer pen or carbon paper to accurately transfer design) and add the beads/stones embedded into the embroidery image itself: center or dangle.
These could be around the bottom or running down the lapels. Different floss colors/ stone colors could represent different incantations or spells.

If you can use leather tools, you can punch holes through hide (or heat a compass point and poke through hide) and wire/embroider beads that way. These could be on your gandolf style satchel, or shoulder strap for weapon.


Me: 50
XH: 13 - well, does emotional age count?
DD1: 24
DD2: 20
30 year partnership...

M: Dec, 1987
Bomb: May 12, 2014
D: Oct, 2015
Ratz.
I am learning how to surf!
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443604
07/16/19 10:18 PM
07/16/19 10:18 PM
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Great ideas!!

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: Blair] #443606
07/16/19 10:34 PM
07/16/19 10:34 PM
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HI
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HI
I'm still trying to visualize HOLD making his outfit. So interesting to see the details he is designing.

Truly impressive and restores some of my faith in guys again. wink Seriously Hold, keep up the good work. It means a lot to see talent not brought out and shared. smile smile

jmo,
Orchid


Orchid
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443762
08/02/19 12:33 PM
08/02/19 12:33 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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I got a stencil of Celtic patterns. I am going to paint a border at the sleeves and neck of the robe. I am thinking of using Tulip black metallic fabric paint. It says it is designed to appear wet after it dries. I am thinking a pattern that glitters in the sun is a nice touch for a wizard, and silver border on grey robe does not create enough contrast.

I got the rune beads and a Norse pendant on a steel rope chain. With the beads on the rope chain (necklace) it is very heavy but looks excellent. I think very few people will notice that the necklace is Norse but the robe's border is Celtic.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443763
08/02/19 02:37 PM
08/02/19 02:37 PM
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If anyone notices, wizards will wander!


When we open to this moment and don't judge it or try to change it, even when we're suffering and wish it were otherwise, we tap into the spaciousness of mind that allows us to move forward skillfully, with discernment and joy. -- Sharon Salzberg
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443764
08/02/19 10:51 PM
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Nice!

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443767
08/03/19 11:41 PM
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Tough week. Mrs Hold sick. I had a stressful week at work. She chided me this morning and I snapped at her. Then went to run an errand. She called to say she may want a divorce. She says I am now not only not on her team, but an enemy. I think I am now on the team with the jerks who raped her. Serves me right. I have not been as good a husband as I should have been these last few years. I let my frustrations and resentment stand in the way of my love. I may soon find myself missing all that I took for granted.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443768
08/04/19 03:00 AM
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Hold the prospects of financial impact of divorce alone should make it worth it to do the work to recover your marriage. One free of financial infidelity and debilitating resentment. I think it’s the path of greatest happiness for you both. And if you don’t like it you could always divorce later.


"I have everything I need." and "I am exactly where I am supposed to be." ~Louise Hays
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443769
08/04/19 03:30 AM
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Maybe Mrs. Hold will work with you to create a better marriage and work through resentments? Are you both willing to work together? Although I wouldn't recommend asking until she isn't sick anymore.

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443770
08/04/19 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by holdingontoit
Tough week. Mrs Hold sick. I had a stressful week at work. She chided me this morning and I snapped at her. Then went to run an errand. She called to say she may want a divorce. She says I am now not only not on her team, but an enemy. I think I am now on the team with the jerks who raped her. Serves me right. I have not been as good a husband as I should have been these last few years. I let my frustrations and resentment stand in the way of my love. I may soon find myself missing all that I took for granted.


Ah. The scales have fallen from her eyes. Life is shorter than we think. Maybe you both might find the final stretch more enjoyable apart?

You haven't been on her team for a long time now. Maybe to her face, you prevaricate, but behind her back you mock her and make contemptuous judgments. Would you be able to stop doing that now, even if you wanted to?

Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443771
08/04/19 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by holdingontoit
..She called to say she may want a divorce. She says I am now not only not on her team, but an enemy. I think I am now on the team with the jerks who raped her. Serves me right. I have not been as good a husband as I should have been these last few years..


Hold, please do not let her bully you into submission. By your own admission over the years, you know how much that sucked/sucks for you. She is threatened by your feeling okay not to be locked into the old emotional blackmail where she controls your every mood and waking thought.

You have finally been healing your own personal wounds and she doesn’t like that sense of lost control. Do you really want to crawl back into that dark hole?

The only way forward together is to do so on equal terms. Anything less than that is very unhealthy for you both. Do not let her rock your boat. Tis up to her to choose to join you as equals, or not.

My thoughts..

Abusive Power and Control



Last edited by TC_Manhattan; 08/04/19 05:03 PM.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443773
08/05/19 01:07 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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We shall see. Yesterday she cried and told me that no one cares about her. I don't care. The kids don't care (they don't call her often enough). No one cares except her mother.
Strangely, that made me feel better. If she is angry with everyone, then maybe this is more her being upset by her visit with the doctor than about me in particular. I texted the kids that Mom got a bad report from her doctor. They both called yesterday. Mrs Hold did not want to speak with DD in the morning but took the call from DS in the afternoon.
I think she is very upset by the medical news. It isn't awful news (she isn't going blind any time soon), but she has already done all the available treatment and there are still symptoms. So she is dealing with a situation where the symptoms may or may not resolve on their own, and there isn't anything she can do to affect that. Interesting how so many things are a matter of perspective. The doctor thought she was delivering good news. The treatment provided partial relief. The treatment provides no relief at all about half the time, so Mrs Hold was in the better half. But Mrs Hold views the report as bad news, because she only got partial relief and you can't do the treatment again for a while. So she is stuck with the symptoms. And she hates that.
Also, she thinks she has been super nice to me lately, and I have not been sufficiently appreciative. I think she is referring to her offer of sex a few weeks ago. Well, if I ever needed evidence why sex has to be absolutely positively off the table for us, this is it. She is always in a bad mood for weeks after we make an attempt. Not falling for that again.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443774
08/05/19 01:32 PM
08/05/19 01:32 PM
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"Look, dear. We are getting older. No way around it. Our bodies are getting more banged up year after year. We have a choice. We can try to co-exist in relative kindness, or not. The "not" way involves much frustration and loneliness. Do you want to be changing your own lightbulbs in 10 years? I don't want to be alone without you in 10 years. We can't replace the memories we have made together. So let's pick the way of kindness and try to ride this out, together. I love you."


Chrysalis
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443795
08/07/19 02:59 PM
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holdingontoit Offline OP
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Emotional talk last night. She said I do not care about her. She said something like "I was so nice to you, I even tried to have sex with you". I told her not to worry, she never has to do that again. I don't see us ever having sex. She said "that is not what I want to hear. Married people have sex. What are we if we don't have sex? What can we do to bond?" I told her we can hug and cuddle and kiss. She was not at all comforted. She said I was being mean to her. I said "as between sex and you, I choose you. You know how obsessed with sex I am. What more can I do to show you that your feelings matter than to voluntarily give up sex in order to stay with you?"

We went back and forth a couple more times. After that I said "we did 8 years of marriage counselling and never agreed on objective reality. We aren't going to agree on whether my behavior last week was loving or mean-spirited. I think I made an effort to cater to your needs. You think I didn't, and in fact that I disrespected you repeatedly. We are not going to agree on how to view my behavior."

We shall see where this leads.


Solutions? There are none. There are decisions.
Re: Am I still a doormat? [Re: holdingontoit] #443796
08/07/19 05:32 PM
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Radical honesty can be refreshing.
It can also instill sheer fear and panic.
Fasten your seatbelt..

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