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Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: oceanbreez] #203109
01/31/12 05:58 AM
01/31/12 05:58 AM
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catperson Offline
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Plan B is for when you discover that you are suffering immensely from his wayward acts. It's when you realize that you cannot control him, and that continuing to be around him HURTS you.

Once your spouse cheats, you have ONE CHOICE, that's worth a damn - walk away.

If your spouse doesn't want you, you have ONE option - MOVE ON.

It takes a long time, but most betrayed spouses eventually hit the same place - realization that you cannot control your spouse.

You can want, wish, beg, plead, pray for...all you want. But you ccan't make your spouse want you. That is HIS choice.

Until you hit that realization, you're controlled. Once you hit tthat realization, you have the power.

Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: catperson] #203118
01/31/12 06:34 AM
01/31/12 06:34 AM
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Ok let me tell you cat exactly how im feeling as we speak..

I do not contact him by phone, text, email.. nothing! no contact, nada! I sorta went dark on him i dont know if i did it to punish him or to help me.. i think its favoring me more than him. BUT i would like to reconcile.. should i plan B or should i stay dark. i have mixed feelings.. my D papers are still sitting on my lawyer's desk waiting for me to sign and i still havent gone to sign.. i dnt think im ready smirk


Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: oceanbreez] #203125
01/31/12 07:26 AM
01/31/12 07:26 AM
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Hi ocean,

The way I understand Plan B is that it's the same as 'going dark' for your sake, to protect you from the daily drama.

To be the most effective, you would Plan A (show him the best YOU there is) and then before going dark, establishing a go-between person (intermediary) who will relay messages regarding the kids or health, but nothing else. The Plan B letter spells out the only conditions upon which you'll accept your H back. The road should be very narrow with explicit conditions defined.

Until you have become confident that you understand how it works (and only when you have an intermediary who knows what her role is), don't start Plan B.

If you're not ready to sign your D papers, don't sign them. But don't have any illusions that if/when you implement Plan B, you will convince your WH to end the A and come home. He may do neither, he may do one or he may do both. If so, it should be on YOUR terms as described in your Plan B letter.

Hope that helps.
Ace


We're overcoming decades of marital dysfunction including abuse, passive aggression, gas-lighting & infidelity (both of us).

Our Weird and Ongoing Story
Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: Ace] #203160
01/31/12 04:25 PM
01/31/12 04:25 PM
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^^^--- I agree.


42.
Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: Jayne241] #203294
02/01/12 12:28 AM
02/01/12 12:28 AM
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Thank You.. makes sense now =)) im just a bit slow at understanding these things when i got married i was not given a guide book to look to help me overcome these times =((

you are all amazing

Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: oceanbreez] #218484
03/27/12 10:39 AM
03/27/12 10:39 AM
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Page 1 and 2 have the most info, but good stuff on the others as well


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: MyRevelation] #245073
07/05/12 01:26 AM
07/05/12 01:26 AM
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An abridged plan B letter

In order to preserve any feelings I have left for you, I can no longer have any contact with you until such time as your affair ends. In case of emergency concerning the health, safety or well being of the kids, or a life threatening emergency affecting yourself, I can be reached by contacting (my intermediary) at ____________.

Should you become willing to end your affair and attempt to restore our marriage, based on a plan that we must both be agreeable with, I will be open to discussion of that topic. Until that time, please do not call, stop by, email, write or send messages to me through the children or any other individual.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: Lil] #245092
07/05/12 03:16 AM
07/05/12 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mark1952
Some seemed interested to hear what I have to say on the subject of Plan B or having no contact with an actively cheating spouse.

So here we go...

The single biggest reason Plan B doesn't "work" is the same reason Plan A doesn't "work". That is, almost nobody actually DOES either plan. Instead what they do is try to slide into some portions of the plan, leaving other options open, in large part because they don't actually understand the plan itself or the reasons for it. They also have no idea what "working" actually is since they don't know what it is supposed to do.

Plan B, according to Harley, serves multiple purposes. One of those can be that wake-up call the WS/WAS needs to understand that they too stand to lose something. What is often missed is that Plan B does not assure that the WS/WAS will actually wake up. It can however make it possible by accomplishing a few things required for that to happen sooner rather than later.

  • It removes the emotional support of the BS from the life of the WS/WAS
  • It causes the affair to stand on its own as a total relationship
  • It gets the affair relationship out in the open where it is no longer that secret and hidden mouse but the real elephant it is (lets others see what is going on)
  • It gives a taste of what divorced will look like with exchange of kids, missing aspects from the kids lives, loss of family time and connections with extended family that most have learned to rely on
  • If accompanied by a real separation agreement enforced by the courts or by the withholding of financial support for continuing the affair, it can be a real eye opener for someone who thinks their life will go on as is but with a new partner, one they aren't actually always that committed to making into a life long partner to begin with


Another purpose, and perhaps the very thing most needed by the BS/LBS is that it separates them from the drama, day to day pain and stress of dealing with an ongoing affair by one's spouse. Because one MUST sacrifice his/her own emotional well being in order to fight an affair in an effort to save a marriage, the longer it continues the more stress destroys the possibility of recovery should the affair end and the WS seek reconciliation. Because you can only give so much without getting anything in return (sort of like trying to blow up a vacuum cleaner) continuing beyond a certain point just about assures that sufficient healing to recover can't happen.

So Plan B, stops the insanity, not by stopping the affair but by stopping the dealing with it. It isn't leaving things to chance and just accepting whatever comes along but really choosing to save oneself while not nailing the door to the marriage shut but only closing it for a time. It isn't being "nice" until the affair is over. It is being "GONE" until the affair is over, as in gone and unavailable to the WS/WAS. It isn't sitting by suffering while the affair rages, but is really getting your own life and learning to live as a whole person on your own so that whether the marriage is saved or not, the BS/LBS can lead a relatively normal, healthy life.

Since recovery of the marriage requires a significant amount of emotional energy, Plan B also strives to keep a bit left in reserve for that endeavor should it become possible. If you deal with an active wayward long enough, you don't love them even a little tiny bit. You HATE them. You want only to get away from them, punish them for what they did and are still doing and build a resentment list of why you should feel entitled to punish them forever that would make any person justifying an affair proud. The more you put up with, the more you have to forgive. Plan B puts the anguish accumulation on hold and gives you time to become a functioning human being again.

Statistically, most affairs (3 sigma points) will end within about two years from the time they are confronted no matter what is done to fight them. Plan B, for those willing to wait because they see the marriage as worth the sacrifice, waiting a couple of years in Plan B covers enough of the spectrum as far as duration is concerned to know what will happen when the affair ends. For those still going strong after that time, they are already statistical outliers and might last forever or might implode in another week with no real way to know which it will be. But during the two years of waiting, a person can generally get their own poop grouped, learn to function as an individual again and know that the choice to divorce is one being made based on facts and data rather than on feeling hurt in the moment because of being rejected.

The reason few of these things happen in Plan B is that people fail to act to based on what they see as their preferred outcomes and instead act based on how they feel, which is really the way most affairs get started. It is the problem that has to be overcome if any chance of recovery is going to be possible since the longer an affair goes on, the less likely recovery can be pulled off when it ends, which again, is most likely to happen in nearly all affairs.

So if the stated goals of Plan B/NC are:
  • Emotional Healing for at least themselves
  • Give the WS/WAS a taste of what divorce will look like
  • Give time for the affair to end before deciding the outcome for the marriage
  • Protect the assets of the family
  • Save enough emotional investment for possible recovery should it become possible
  • Protect the children of the marriage from the total loss of normalcy and support they so need to feel safe
  • Other reasonable expectations that come from living separated from one's spouse

Limited contact can be of no real value.

To actually pull off Plan B requires some choices that are very hard to make. Not the least of these is the protection of family assets to avoid ruin that can result even if the affair ends quickly and recovery begins. For most, this will require (at least in most states in the USA) a formal and legal separation agreement. This will determine custodial rights regarding the children, financial support required to maintain the well being of the children and legal stipulation as to what is marital and what is personal assets.

It also requires working out the details of the visitation schedule for the noncustodial parent, which is often the WS/WAS who must now live on his/her own or move in with the affair partner and strive to make the "relationship" work as a real one rather than fantasy as it began.

Thus, to do Plan B probably requires hiring a lawyer, maybe going to court at least a few times and examining what you will need from a divorce, even if the divorce never happens. It also requires some serious examination of the marriage to see if it is even possible to put it back together.

One of the keys to making all of these things "work" is that they can really only take place if there is no contact at all. Every time the spouse's interact, by phone, in person, by email, by written letter, the goals are being pushed aside since the BS/LBS does not feel safe, the WS/WAS does not have to stop relying on support from the BS/LBS, the lives are being intermixed, the children are being given confusing signals, the emotional state of both are being kept at the forefront, etc...

In Harley's Plan B, an intermediary is recommended to filter any and all communication from the WS/WAS. Chatting (emotional support) is eliminated. The drama of the affair itself is eliminated. The having to deal with a cheating spouse complete with the justifications, often venomous things they say and the stress of constantly fighting over things that are really pretty trivial in the big picture are done away with as much as within the control of the BS/LBS. This can be a trusted friend, a lawyer, even a family member of the WS/WAS. The only real requirement is that this person understand what is pertinent and what is smoke as far as the drama that always follows any real effort to cut off communication directly with a WS/WAS. All sorts of "emergencies" will crop up almost daily. Having daily crisis management is one of the things the BS/LBS is trying to avoid and so it serves no purpose toward the stated goals.

In order for Plan B/NC to actually be what is happening, it must be an actual event that sets it in motion. In Harley's plan, it is a letter stating not much beyond the following:

In order to preserve any feelings I have left for you, I can no longer have any contact with you until such time as your affair ends. In case of emergency concerning the health, safety or well being of the kids, or a life threatening emergency affecting yourself, I can be reached by contacting (my intermediary) at ____________.

Should you become willing to end your affair and attempt to restore our marriage, based on a plan that we must both be agreeable with, I will be open to discussion of that topic. Until that time, please do not call, stop by, email, write or send messages to me through the children or any other individual.


Yes, individual adjustments are required and nothing so impersonal is actually what should be delivered. But this is the only real information to be included and nothing any longer really matters since most of the first paragraph will be read and about half of the second. Anything longer or with more explanation will be ignored or worse, turned into reason for a tirade as the WS/WAS rails against the BS/LBS.

Watching those around here and on other forums who delve into what they believe is NC only to hear time and again of interaction, in person, via phone and through hacking emails, talking to friends about what is going on in the life of the cheater and affair partner, is one of the more frustrating things for me to watch. Knowing that each and every contact makes recovery less likely, more difficult and is building more pain and suffering for the BS/LBS sometimes makes me want to grab the person, shake them till their teeth rattle and slap them senseless.

When an affair begins, most often the affairing person believes it will not really affect their marriage very much. If they are confronted and choose to continue the affair, they believe that they can still have a relationship with their spouse, at least benefit from some sort of relationship, and pursue this new and exciting relationship with the affair partner. Being supportive, emotionally available, financially committed, long suffering, and willing to "work out a settlement" sounds so noble and high and mighty. It is actually enabling the fantasy of the WS to continue. Plan B stops that dead. It also gives that indicator that "I am moving on with my life" that so many think is the biggest benefit.

The biggest benefit for the BS however is really a return to sanity, gradual and as difficult as it might be. It is one of those counter intuitive things always being talked about but seldom being done. It requires Dobson's approach of unlocking the door, opening the cage and accepting the outcome instead of trying to manipulate it. It takes understanding Townsend and Cloud and their way of seeing boundaries as being self defining and not a way to manipulate others around us into acting the way we would choose for them. For it to be part of an overall strategy to save the marriage, it must happen before the BS/LBS is DONE and in revenge mode. It doesn't have to happen before divorce is filed or before a final decision to save the marriage is actually made. It does need to happen before the damage is so great that only years of therapy will overcome the anxiety, stress and pain that comes from an affair for both sides.

For those who fight too long, try too many strategies that counter each other instead of supporting each other, and end up simply being done, simply going to NC is the most beneficial way to learn to move on with your life. But that isn't Plan B at that point as it is now a part of Plan D (divorce). But the other goals of Plan B are still fulfilled by having NC, even if the marriage is being abandoned. These still include, healing for the BS/LBS, building new emotional support structures to replace the one relied upon in the marriage, protecting the children from constant fights (Dr Phil talks about how children would rather be from a broken home than have to live in one) and can also work toward protection of family and personal assets.

The longer contact is sustained with an active wayward, the more damage that is done and the more difficult recovery will be should it even begin. Being able to recover becomes less likely with every discussion of the affair, argument about who is to blame, what is at fault and who will benefit from divorce.

People have this notion that there is such a thing as benign divorce. All they have to do is put their individual needs aside, fight fair, do what is best for the family and put the needs of the family as a whole above their own. They need to learn to work out their differences without having to hurt each other, punish each other for transgressions or using the children to inflict their will upon the other.

Wait... isn't that how marriages are repaired? If they actually did any of those things, they wouldn't be getting a divorce. It is pure fantasy to believe that a "couple" can be divorced and work together for mutual benefit and the benefit of the children. If they are divorced and either or both in a relationship with someone else, they are no longer a couple.




AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: Lil] #265077
11/17/12 02:28 AM
11/17/12 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: Not2fun
Originally Posted By: futureunknown


From what I understand about the MB Plan B, I should have ignored her attitude about her affair, and just kept concentrating on the fact that she was back in the game with me, kept meeting her emotional needs, and rebuilding our relationship. I couldn't do it.


Future,

YOu misunderstood about Plan B then.

Plan B is for when all avenue's of Plan A have been applied.
You go into Plan B when the WS refuses to end the affair and refuses to begin marital reconciliation. In Plan B, the BS avoids all contact with the WS until the affair has ended and the WS agrees to a PLAN of marital recovery. Usually, the BS get legal representation and files for a Legal Separation. The BS also get an intermiderary to handle any communication about the kids. In other words, the BS has absolutely NO CONTACT with the Wayward Spouse and the WS is still engaged in an ACTIVE AFFAIR.

Usually the biggest mess up people have with this is they do not have a PLAN in place for marital recovery. The BS is usually so relieved that the affair is over, they do not negotiate a PLAN of recovery and accept the WS without eliminating all the conditions that made the affair possible in the first place.

So far, in most of the cases I have seen on MA, this seems to be the BIGGEST MISTAKE. No real plan for Recovery. Which is WHY you are seeing OM1, OM2, ect. If the affair ends but the WS still does NOT AGREE to a Plan of Recovery, then the BS should stay in Plan B (NO CONTACT with the Wayward Spouse....)

So no Future, you were not in a true MB Plan B.

And to clear up any other misconcepts about Plan A, Plan A is when a BS negotitates with the WS to end the affair. You do so by eliminating Love Busters (angry outburst, selfish demands, disrespectful judgements) and showing a willingness to meet the emotional needs of the WS. Also, exposure is also done while in Plan A. Exposure includes family and friends who can help put pressure on the WS to end the affair, the OP's spouse, and especially the children. When the WS refuses to end the affair and the BS has done Plan A for short while (Dr. H recommends 3-4 weeks for women depending and up to 6 months for men depending....this is not a SET IN STONE timeline, btw), the BS THEN goes into Plan B. Dr. H recommends Plan B for up to 2 yrs because nearly ALL affairs end with-in that time frame.

Not2fun


Here


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: Lil] #265078
11/17/12 02:31 AM
11/17/12 02:31 AM
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Lil Offline OP

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Originally Posted By: Not2fun
Originally Posted By: Not2fun


Plan B is for when all avenue's of Plan A have been applied.
You go into Plan B when the WS refuses to end the affair and refuses to begin marital reconciliation.


As for my personal sitch, I went into Plan B even though the affair had ended because Mr. Not had not agreed to a Recovery Plan. He LOVED my meeting his EN'S, avoiding LB's and all the peaches and cream of Dr. H's stuff, HOWEVER, he did not want to necessarily do any of the work himself. He also refused to eliminate the conditions that lead to his affair and didn't want to do any Extra-ordinary precautions, which include giving all access to emails, phone records, Credit cards and such.

It was a very wise move on my part, because without these VERY CRUCIAL STEPS, all that would have happened is that love would not have been restored, resentment would have continued to build, and the risk of the affair resuming or another one taking its place would have been great.

My mentors on the board, Mimi and Mark (yes, the same Mark on here) were very good at making sure I didn't miss this crucial step and imparting on me the very importance of it.....

Not2fun


Here


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: Lil] #280775
02/18/13 07:46 PM
02/18/13 07:46 PM
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Lil Offline OP

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BUMP for BB


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: Lil] #298575
05/28/13 08:36 PM
05/28/13 08:36 PM
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Marie Offline
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Lil,
What if upon discovery (7 months ago) of my WH, I found out that he had been having an affair for a year and 4 months? He left me for the OW? Basically, I am asking what are my chances of recovering our marriage? I have to have minimal contact because we own a business together. We will have minimal contact until we work out the details and I get my name off the business. He talks about moving in with the OW and said he wants a divorce. He acts like a Wayward (what I have been reading here). Keep in mind I was in plan A for 6 months and have been in plan B for 6 weeks now. Of course he was cake eating in plan A. Now I don't let him see me at all and I only talk business with him.

Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: Marie] #298615
05/29/13 12:52 AM
05/29/13 12:52 AM
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Lil Offline OP

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I dont really call that plan B as it is defined. Having said that plan B is not, now or ever, a way to get the marriage to recover.

Plan B is simply a way to remove the betrayed spouse from the hurt they feel from being around the wayward spouse even if the WS is not actually being all that bad Example: Flick had moments of being very sweet and charming to me while he was having his affair. It just made the other 80% of the time more painful and confusing.

The only 'chance' you get from planB is that you haven't moved down the scale from love into loathing so when the affair ends, as is statistically possible, you as the betrayed spouse, might condesenced to make some kind of recovery attempt.

Thats it.

Affair ends, you dont completely hate your WS, you might want to try recovery.

Contact means the opposite - and I have seen it happen alot - BS clings onto minimal contact, WS keeps on causing death by 1000 paper cuts, BS grows to despise WS, affair ends, WS comes calling, BS gives the big finger.

Chance is entirely dependant on how YOU feel when the affair ends.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: Lil] #298642
05/29/13 01:09 PM
05/29/13 01:09 PM
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Lil,
You are so right about what you said here. I guess I keep hearing different things about No contact. Even though we are in minimal contact, each time I hear from him and and each time he turns on his charm, I hate him more and more. I am basically getting to that point now. When he tries to joke around with me and be overly nice, I look at it as if he is not understanding the hell he has put me through and is still putting me through. The anguish is unbelievable. It's like he and her are off having the time of their lives while I suffer tremendous pain that can only be described by those of us who have experienced it or are still going through it now such as myself.

Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: Lil] #298654
05/29/13 02:17 PM
05/29/13 02:17 PM
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Statistically, most affairs (3 sigma points) will end within about two years from the time they are confronted no matter what is done to fight them.
______________________________________________________________
Lil,
I found the above quote in a post of what you wrote about Plan B. Can you explain it to me? When you say that most affairs end within two years from the time they are confronted, I assume you are talking about the discovery date. Basically, since my husband was already having an affair for over a year when he finally admitted it to me, are you saying his affair "could" end within 2 years from the discovery date (which was this past Nov, 2012). Is that how I should read what you wrote? smile


Last edited by Marie; 05/29/13 02:31 PM.
Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: Marie] #298815
05/30/13 01:36 AM
05/30/13 01:36 AM
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Lil Offline OP

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Hi Marie,
I am sorry if I came across a bit short yesterday. My explaination was correct, but I could have been more gentle and delicate in delivery smile

The sigma 3 thing was actually from Mark smile

I 'think' the original statistics was done by the late Shirley Glass. In it they discovered that in general, affairs do not have longevity on their side. I'll find the link to the actual study, but from memory 97% of affairs end within 2 years, and of those that carry on, all but .03% end within 6 years. They just are not sustainable. There's a lot of speculation as to why this is so - lack of trust, poor beginnings, relationship but on fantasy, relationships dont tend to last long regardless of how they start, FOO, past baggage, addiction....

As to when to take the start date from, well thats up to a whole bunch of stuff that could mean everything, or nothing.

In general I tell people that sometime around the 2 year mark of the affair starting, it will die. Actual tangible dates are irrelevant - its simply a case of the affair nearly always ends, and the OP nearly always tries to come home, especially wayward husbands. Not always, but nearly always.

LadyGrey's Marital Statistics Thread

More statistics

Not Just Friends Book Review

Hmm, cant find the post Im thinking of, but I did find the following:

about 95% of all affairs either end by one person deciding to end it, or that it dies a natural death. Of the five percent that end in marriage, about 70% of those end in divorce.

While it's true that there are happy marriages that start as affairs, they are in the minority. Only about 5% of all affairs end in marriage, and only about 1/3 of those marriages survive the first five years.

According to Dr. Frank Pittman, the "mortality rate" of affair-marriages (AM) is as follows:

5 years -- 75%
10 years - 90%
"Lifetime"- 95%

So some contridictory figures, yet none particulary hopeful for the AP's.


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: Lil] #298817
05/30/13 01:39 AM
05/30/13 01:39 AM
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Typical, just found it smile

Will the affairee's end up together?


AKA Lildoggie

Just found out about your spouses affair?
Infidelity Guide For The Betrayed Spouse


Re: The Next Stage - Plan B, Protection Phase [Re: Lil] #299106
05/31/13 01:26 AM
05/31/13 01:26 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 98
M
Marie Offline
Member
Marie  Offline
Member
M
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 98
Lil,
I didn't take offense of your reply at all. I appreciate all the help I can get. smile

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